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Posted to users@servicemix.apache.org by PAC Kieffer Guillaume <Gu...@panalpina.com> on 2012/03/15 17:22:50 UTC
ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Hi,
I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get, describes Camel Spring projects...
It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management, autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a tremendous number of extensions..
I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted within the new versions..
Thanks for the clarification,
Guillaume.
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Achim Nierbeck <bc...@googlemail.com>.
The nice thing is, most of the Spring-DM samples can be used for
blueprint, too.
regards, Achim
2012/3/15 PAC Kieffer Guillaume <Gu...@panalpina.com>:
> Hi Chris,
>
> I went through so many examples with Spring.. that's why I was wondering.
>
> Thanks for your quick reply and the clarification.
>
> Regards,
> Guillaume.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Geer [mailto:chris@cxtsoftware.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 17:27
> To: users@servicemix.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
>
> Guillaume,
>
> We recently went through the same thought process and standardized on
> Blueprint. The major reason why is blueprint is supposed to the the
> standard way of doing it in OSGI (per the spec). Also, Spring-DM is
> actually no longer a supported standalone project, it's been transitioned
> to Eclipse Gemini Blueprint which won't officially be supported until Karaf
> 3.0 (ServiceMix ??).
>
> Chris
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 9:22 AM, PAC Kieffer Guillaume <
> Guillaume.Kieffer@panalpina.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to
>> choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
>> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>>
>> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get,
>> describes Camel Spring projects...
>> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management,
>> autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a
>> tremendous number of extensions..
>> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears
>> to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted
>> within the new versions..
>>
>> Thanks for the clarification,
>>
>> Guillaume.
>>
--
Apache Karaf <http://karaf.apache.org/> Committer & PMC
OPS4J Pax Web <http://wiki.ops4j.org/display/paxweb/Pax+Web/>
Committer & Project Lead
blog <http://notizblog.nierbeck.de/>
RE: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by PAC Kieffer Guillaume <Gu...@panalpina.com>.
Hi Chris,
I went through so many examples with Spring.. that's why I was wondering.
Thanks for your quick reply and the clarification.
Regards,
Guillaume.
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Geer [mailto:chris@cxtsoftware.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 17:27
To: users@servicemix.apache.org
Subject: Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Guillaume,
We recently went through the same thought process and standardized on
Blueprint. The major reason why is blueprint is supposed to the the
standard way of doing it in OSGI (per the spec). Also, Spring-DM is
actually no longer a supported standalone project, it's been transitioned
to Eclipse Gemini Blueprint which won't officially be supported until Karaf
3.0 (ServiceMix ??).
Chris
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 9:22 AM, PAC Kieffer Guillaume <
Guillaume.Kieffer@panalpina.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to
> choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>
> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get,
> describes Camel Spring projects...
> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management,
> autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a
> tremendous number of extensions..
> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears
> to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted
> within the new versions..
>
> Thanks for the clarification,
>
> Guillaume.
>
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Chris Geer <ch...@cxtsoftware.com>.
Guillaume,
We recently went through the same thought process and standardized on
Blueprint. The major reason why is blueprint is supposed to the the
standard way of doing it in OSGI (per the spec). Also, Spring-DM is
actually no longer a supported standalone project, it's been transitioned
to Eclipse Gemini Blueprint which won't officially be supported until Karaf
3.0 (ServiceMix ??).
Chris
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 9:22 AM, PAC Kieffer Guillaume <
Guillaume.Kieffer@panalpina.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to
> choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>
> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get,
> describes Camel Spring projects...
> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management,
> autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a
> tremendous number of extensions..
> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears
> to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted
> within the new versions..
>
> Thanks for the clarification,
>
> Guillaume.
>
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Guillaume,
I will advice blueprint.
And the reason is: Spring DM == Blueprint ;)
In fact, Spring DM is the original reference implementation of
Blueprint. But now, Spring DM is more or less dead, replaced by pure
Blueprint implementation (Gemini).
In SMX, we use Aries as Blueprint implementation.
Regards
JB
On 03/15/2012 05:22 PM, PAC Kieffer Guillaume wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>
> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get, describes Camel Spring projects...
> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management, autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a tremendous number of extensions..
> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted within the new versions..
>
> Thanks for the clarification,
>
> Guillaume.
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
Hi Guillaume,
spring-dm has some problems with classloading especially when used with
namespaces. So when you use spring-dm you typically have to tune the
Import-Package statements of the maven bundle plugin.
For blueprint this works much better. Blueprint namespace handlers use
the correct classloader of the bundle that implements the namespace and
the maven bundle plugin reads the blueprint context and add all that is
there. So if you follow the conventions of the bundle plugin you can
leave the Import-Package alone in most cases.
Blueprint also works better with camel and the property placeholders.
The only big disadvantage of blueprint is that it does not work outside
OSGi. So you can not test your context in a simple integration test like
for spring. You can use pax-exam though
to start an OSGi container for the test.
Btw. If you search for some real life blueprint examples then the Apache
Karaf sources are a very good lecture. The modules use blueprint almost
everywhere and show many of the features.
So overall I recommend to use blueprint for OSGi deployments.
Btw. I have a tutorial for camel with blueprint:
http://www.liquid-reality.de/display/liquid/2012/01/03/Karaf+Tutorial+Part+5+-+Running+Apache+Camel+integrations+in+OSGi
Christian
Am 15.03.2012 17:22, schrieb PAC Kieffer Guillaume:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>
> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get, describes Camel Spring projects...
> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management, autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a tremendous number of extensions..
> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted within the new versions..
>
> Thanks for the clarification,
>
> Guillaume.
>
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Hi Guillaume,
my comments inline:
> - Spring (alone) may be used within an OSGi Container but it is not fully compliant for this environment (classloading issues.. namespace handling..)
It depends of the container and the Spring integration of Spring.
> - Spring DM is (was ;) the OSGi compliant version of Spring.
Not really, Spring DM is an extension of Spring to add core OSGi stuff
(services, service references, etc).
> - Blueprint Standard was originally designed out of Spring DM.
Blueprint is the norm/standard designed starting from Spring DM. As I
said, Spring DM is the reference implementation of Blueprint.
> - Spring DM has moved to Gemini Blueprint.
Correct
> - Gemini Blueprint (Eclipse) as well as Apache Aries are different implementations of the OSGi blueprint Standard.
Correct
> - Aries is the implementation integrated within Servicemix.
Correct.
Regards
JB
>
> As it is fully my project is a Servicemix bundle, I will then go for blueprint ;)
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Regards,
> Guillaume.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:jb@nanthrax.net]
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 18:23
> To: users@servicemix.apache.org
> Subject: Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
>
> Basically, another "guide line" is:
>
> - to use Blueprint, you have to be in an OSGi container with Blueprint
> support
> - if you choose Spring (and pure Spring, not Spring DM), even if it can
> work in ServiceMix, it can also work "outside" of OSGi (in Tomcat for
> instance).
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On 03/15/2012 05:22 PM, PAC Kieffer Guillaume wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
>> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>>
>> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get, describes Camel Spring projects...
>> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management, autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a tremendous number of extensions..
>> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted within the new versions..
>>
>> Thanks for the clarification,
>>
>> Guillaume.
>>
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
Am 16.03.2012 09:37, schrieb Christian Schneider:
> Am 16.03.2012 07:42, schrieb PAC Kieffer Guillaume:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> OK.. Based on your comments, here is a little summary:
>>
>> - Spring (alone) may be used within an OSGi Container but it is not
>> fully compliant for this environment (classloading issues.. namespace
>> handling..)
> Spring alone is not so suitable for OSGi. It has no hook to load the
> ApplicationContext and has no OSGi features like ConfigAdmin and
> Service support.
>> - Spring DM is (was ;) the OSGi compliant version of Spring.
> Spring is is what is suitable for OSGi but that also has the
> Classloading problems. They know about these problems but did not
> address them to keep compatible with pure spring.
I wanted to write Spring DM here :-)
>
> Christian
>
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Christian Schneider <ch...@die-schneider.net>.
Am 16.03.2012 07:42, schrieb PAC Kieffer Guillaume:
> Hi All,
>
> OK.. Based on your comments, here is a little summary:
>
> - Spring (alone) may be used within an OSGi Container but it is not fully compliant for this environment (classloading issues.. namespace handling..)
Spring alone is not so suitable for OSGi. It has no hook to load the
ApplicationContext and has no OSGi features like ConfigAdmin and Service
support.
> - Spring DM is (was ;) the OSGi compliant version of Spring.
Spring is is what is suitable for OSGi but that also has the
Classloading problems. They know about these problems but did not
address them to keep compatible with pure spring.
Christian
--
Christian Schneider
http://www.liquid-reality.de
Open Source Architect
Talend Application Integration Division http://www.talend.com
RE: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by PAC Kieffer Guillaume <Gu...@panalpina.com>.
Hi All,
OK.. Based on your comments, here is a little summary:
- Spring (alone) may be used within an OSGi Container but it is not fully compliant for this environment (classloading issues.. namespace handling..)
- Spring DM is (was ;) the OSGi compliant version of Spring.
- Blueprint Standard was originally designed out of Spring DM.
- Spring DM has moved to Gemini Blueprint.
- Gemini Blueprint (Eclipse) as well as Apache Aries are different implementations of the OSGi blueprint Standard.
- Aries is the implementation integrated within Servicemix.
As it is fully my project is a Servicemix bundle, I will then go for blueprint ;)
Thanks again,
Regards,
Guillaume.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean-Baptiste Onofré [mailto:jb@nanthrax.net]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 18:23
To: users@servicemix.apache.org
Subject: Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Basically, another "guide line" is:
- to use Blueprint, you have to be in an OSGi container with Blueprint
support
- if you choose Spring (and pure Spring, not Spring DM), even if it can
work in ServiceMix, it can also work "outside" of OSGi (in Tomcat for
instance).
Regards
JB
On 03/15/2012 05:22 PM, PAC Kieffer Guillaume wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>
> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get, describes Camel Spring projects...
> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management, autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a tremendous number of extensions..
> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted within the new versions..
>
> Thanks for the clarification,
>
> Guillaume.
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com
Re: ServiceMix 4/Camel: Blueprint or Spring DM ?
Posted by Jean-Baptiste Onofré <jb...@nanthrax.net>.
Basically, another "guide line" is:
- to use Blueprint, you have to be in an OSGi container with Blueprint
support
- if you choose Spring (and pure Spring, not Spring DM), even if it can
work in ServiceMix, it can also work "outside" of OSGi (in Tomcat for
instance).
Regards
JB
On 03/15/2012 05:22 PM, PAC Kieffer Guillaume wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would like to have your opinion on what could be the best container to choose for OSGi bundles deployed on Servicemix 4 ?
> Starting from scratch - Shall we start with Spring DM or blueprint ?
>
> It seems they are both pretty the same, but nearly all readings I get, describes Camel Spring projects...
> It seems that Spring DM is more prowerful in terms of bean management, autowiring capabilities.. transaction management, and comes out with a tremendous number of extensions..
> I do not find any clear info (beside the spec) on blueprint but it appears to be the standard in the OSGi world and may be wider used and adopted within the new versions..
>
> Thanks for the clarification,
>
> Guillaume.
>
--
Jean-Baptiste Onofré
jbonofre@apache.org
http://blog.nanthrax.net
Talend - http://www.talend.com