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Posted to dev@zookeeper.apache.org by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com> on 2008/07/23 16:03:39 UTC
ZooKeeper community
How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
associations do they have?
--
Regards,
Hiram
Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Hiram Chirino wrote:
> So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
Yes, so far. Hadoop's PMC oversees Zookeeper, and it's not all Y!.
http://hadoop.apache.org/who.html
Zookeeper hasn't yet been at Apache long. We hope to soon add non-Y!
committers to Zookeeper, and are on the watch for folks with a good
contribution record.
http://tinyurl.com/6q8rv8
Doug
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
Have you guys setup a zookeeper-private list for the zookeeper ppmc +
hadoop pmc to have private discussions?
If not, I highly recommend it since it would be the only practical
viecel for the ppmc to nominate new commiters or raise sensitive
issues the the pmc.
Regards,
HIram
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:30 PM, Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
> Ok good... as long as the PMC folks are participating it should not
> be a problem.
>
> Regards,
> Hiram
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>
>>> looks like you guys are not in the PMC. Sorry about that. But it
>>> bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe.. usually
>>> an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
>>> authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
>>> properly self govern. It makes things like doing releases, adding new
>>> committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
>>> not actively working on the project.
>>
>> PMC members (like me) are expected to monitor the project. I don't moderate
>> this list, but I'd be surprised if a few other PMC members are not also
>> following it. We hope to eventually promote some of Zookeeper's committers
>> to the Hadoop PMC. All seasoned committers should be on the PMC, but the
>> Zookeeper folks are still relative newbies at Apache and none have made it
>> there yet.
>>
>> To some degree the Hadoop PMC is incubating Zookeeper. Zookeeper's
>> committers are like the PPMC. If things go well, as with all Hadoop
>> committers, they'll be nominated to Hadoop's PMC. There'll be no formal
>> graduation, just gradual maturation. If the community diverges sufficiently
>> from Hadoop's, then it may someday make sense to promote Zookeeper to a TLP.
>>
>> Doug
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Hiram
>
> Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
>
> Open Source SOA
> http://open.iona.com
>
--
Regards,
Hiram
Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
Ok good... as long as the PMC folks are participating it should not
be a problem.
Regards,
Hiram
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>
>> looks like you guys are not in the PMC. Sorry about that. But it
>> bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe.. usually
>> an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
>> authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
>> properly self govern. It makes things like doing releases, adding new
>> committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
>> not actively working on the project.
>
> PMC members (like me) are expected to monitor the project. I don't moderate
> this list, but I'd be surprised if a few other PMC members are not also
> following it. We hope to eventually promote some of Zookeeper's committers
> to the Hadoop PMC. All seasoned committers should be on the PMC, but the
> Zookeeper folks are still relative newbies at Apache and none have made it
> there yet.
>
> To some degree the Hadoop PMC is incubating Zookeeper. Zookeeper's
> committers are like the PPMC. If things go well, as with all Hadoop
> committers, they'll be nominated to Hadoop's PMC. There'll be no formal
> graduation, just gradual maturation. If the community diverges sufficiently
> from Hadoop's, then it may someday make sense to promote Zookeeper to a TLP.
>
> Doug
>
--
Regards,
Hiram
Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Hiram Chirino wrote:
> looks like you guys are not in the PMC. Sorry about that. But it
> bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe.. usually
> an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
> authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
> properly self govern. It makes things like doing releases, adding new
> committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
> not actively working on the project.
PMC members (like me) are expected to monitor the project. I don't
moderate this list, but I'd be surprised if a few other PMC members are
not also following it. We hope to eventually promote some of
Zookeeper's committers to the Hadoop PMC. All seasoned committers
should be on the PMC, but the Zookeeper folks are still relative newbies
at Apache and none have made it there yet.
To some degree the Hadoop PMC is incubating Zookeeper. Zookeeper's
committers are like the PPMC. If things go well, as with all Hadoop
committers, they'll be nominated to Hadoop's PMC. There'll be no formal
graduation, just gradual maturation. If the community diverges
sufficiently from Hadoop's, then it may someday make sense to promote
Zookeeper to a TLP.
Doug
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
>
> Are all you guys also PMC members on Hadoop?
>
Never mind.. I just looked it up in the asf-authorization file.
hadoop-zookeeper=akornev,breed,fpj,mahadev,phunt
hadoop-pmc=ab,cutting,dhruba,enis,jimk,nigel,omalley,stack,taton,tomwhite
looks like you guys are not in the PMC. Sorry about that. But it
bring us a weird governance issue which is very anti Apahe.. usually
an Apache project is self governed, but from the look of the
authorization file, it seems like the zookeeper committers cannot
properly self govern. It makes things like doing releases, adding new
committers and pmc members much more complex since the PMC members are
not actively working on the project.
Is this being addressed?
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Mahadev Konar <ma...@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> We are fully aware of that Hiram. We are still a sub project of Hadoop and
> have been on sourceforge for a while. For being a sub project the Hadoop PMC
> needs to vote for it. Zookeeper is in the future roadmap of Hadoop for High
> Availability/ configuration management and mounting of different
> filesystems.
> So that's why were able to get in as a subproject of Hadoop.
Yeah.. wish it would have been that easy when we tried to being in
ActiveMQ from Codehaus as sub-project of Geronimo since it was THE JMS
implementation shipping with Geronimo. I guess the big difference was
you guys did a code grant, while the ActiveMQ stuff had to have it's
ip checked.
Count your blessings. The incubator is really a horrible speed bump
to go through.
> We are trying to build a community of diverse committers and developers and
> its just the start :).
>
Awesome
> Hope you guys can help :).
>
Yep! You guys have a very interesting project and hard to keep my hands off it.
Are all you guys also PMC members on Hadoop?
> Mahadev
>
>
> On 7/23/08 11:54 AM, "Hiram Chirino" <hi...@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
>
>> Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing. Also
>> how did you guys bypass the incubator?
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mahadev Konar <ma...@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
>>> Yes they are!
>>>
>>> mahadev
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/23/08 11:47 AM, "Hiram Chirino" <hi...@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
>>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
>>>>> (please update this if your company is using...)
>>>>>
>>>>> So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
>>>>> just a few contributors.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
>>>>> Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
>>>>> looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
>>>>> http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>> A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
>>>>> using or looking at ZK.
>>>>>
>>>>> Patrick
>>>>>
>>>>> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
>>>>>> associations do they have?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Regards,
Hiram
Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Mahadev Konar <ma...@yahoo-inc.com>.
We are fully aware of that Hiram. We are still a sub project of Hadoop and
have been on sourceforge for a while. For being a sub project the Hadoop PMC
needs to vote for it. Zookeeper is in the future roadmap of Hadoop for High
Availability/ configuration management and mounting of different
filesystems.
So that's why were able to get in as a subproject of Hadoop.
We are trying to build a community of diverse committers and developers and
its just the start :).
Hope you guys can help :).
Mahadev
On 7/23/08 11:54 AM, "Hiram Chirino" <hi...@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
> Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing. Also
> how did you guys bypass the incubator?
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mahadev Konar <ma...@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
>> Yes they are!
>>
>> mahadev
>>
>>
>> On 7/23/08 11:47 AM, "Hiram Chirino" <hi...@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
>>>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
>>>> (please update this if your company is using...)
>>>>
>>>> So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
>>>> just a few contributors.
>>>>
>>>> There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
>>>> Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
>>>> looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
>>>> http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
>>>>
>>>> A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
>>>> using or looking at ZK.
>>>>
>>>> Patrick
>>>>
>>>> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
>>>>> associations do they have?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Hiram Chirino wrote:
> Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing.
Indeed.
> Also how did you guys bypass the incubator?
The IP title was clear (entirely covered by a software grant from Y!)
and the Hadoop PMC was willing to guide the project.
Doug
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
Hope your mentors have mentioned that diversity is a good thing. Also
how did you guys bypass the incubator?
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Mahadev Konar <ma...@yahoo-inc.com> wrote:
> Yes they are!
>
> mahadev
>
>
> On 7/23/08 11:47 AM, "Hiram Chirino" <hi...@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
>
>> So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
>>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
>>> (please update this if your company is using...)
>>>
>>> So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
>>> just a few contributors.
>>>
>>> There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
>>> Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
>>> looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
>>> http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
>>>
>>> A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
>>> using or looking at ZK.
>>>
>>> Patrick
>>>
>>> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>>
>>>> How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
>>>> associations do they have?
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
--
Regards,
Hiram
Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>.
Yes, it's documented on the web site:
http://hadoop.apache.org/zookeeper/credits.html
Patrick
Hiram Chirino wrote:
> So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
>> (please update this if your company is using...)
>>
>> So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
>> just a few contributors.
>>
>> There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
>> Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
>> looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
>> http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
>>
>> A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
>> using or looking at ZK.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>> How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
>>> associations do they have?
>>>
>
>
>
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Mahadev Konar <ma...@yahoo-inc.com>.
Yes they are!
mahadev
On 7/23/08 11:47 AM, "Hiram Chirino" <hi...@hiramchirino.com> wrote:
> So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
>
> On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
>> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
>> (please update this if your company is using...)
>>
>> So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
>> just a few contributors.
>>
>> There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
>> Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
>> looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
>> http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
>>
>> A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
>> using or looking at ZK.
>>
>> Patrick
>>
>> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>>
>>> How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
>>> associations do they have?
>>>
>>
>
>
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Hiram Chirino <hi...@hiramchirino.com>.
So all the commiters are Yahoo folks?
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 12:24 PM, Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org> wrote:
> Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
> http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
> (please update this if your company is using...)
>
> So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself) and
> just a few contributors.
>
> There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
> Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
> looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
> http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
>
> A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they are
> using or looking at ZK.
>
> Patrick
>
> Hiram Chirino wrote:
>>
>> How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
>> associations do they have?
>>
>
--
Regards,
Hiram
Blog: http://hiramchirino.com
Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com
Re: ZooKeeper community
Posted by Patrick Hunt <ph...@apache.org>.
Good question, according to the PoweredBy wiki not too much ;-)
http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/ZooKeeper/PoweredBy
(please update this if your company is using...)
So far we have 5 committers (Ben, Andrew, Flavio, Mahadev and myself)
and just a few contributors.
There are a number of teams using ZK inside Yahoo, Veoh is using ZK (Ted
Dunning gave a talk with Ben at the last Hadoop social), spinn3r, and it
looks like IONA might have some interest. :-)
http://hiramchirino.com/blog/index.html
A number of people attending the last Hadoop social indicated that they
are using or looking at ZK.
Patrick
Hiram Chirino wrote:
> How big is the ZooKeeper developer community and what commercial
> associations do they have?
>