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Posted to modperl@perl.apache.org by "Agoston, Rich" <Ri...@nasd.com> on 2001/05/25 21:06:24 UTC
Mod Perl Tutorials??
Will there be other conferences later in the year that will offer these
types of mod perl tutorials?? Thanks.
>>>>http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/mod_perl_tutorials.ht
ml
Re: Mod Perl Tutorials??
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
On Sat, 26 May 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote:
> Stas Bekman writes:
> > Anyway, you can take tutorials without going to any conferences. My
> > tutorials are available from http://stason.org/talks/, Nat has posted his
> > tutorial's URL a few months ago and it should be available in the
> > archives. I suppose you can ask other folks that deliver mod_perl
> > tutorials at OSC to give you the URL of their talks.
>
> I'd just like to remind folks that the course-notes are not the only
> reason to attend the tutorial. The other is the face-to-face
> information exchange, which has a vastly higher bandwidth than email.
> I learned more practical information listening to the mod_perl guys
> drinking beer at ApacheCon than I did from the mailing list. I heard
> knowledge *emerge* from conversations ("wow, it sounds like most
> everyone modifies Apache::DBI for their own needs"). It was really
> cool.
Oops, my suggestion to read the handouts if you cannot come to the
conference didn't single out the improtance of going to the conferences.
My reply was based on the fact that the person cannot make it to the
conference. So by reading handouts you at least get to learn things. I'm
still having stocks of handouts that I plan to read from the last
ApacheCon. Obviously I couldn't go to all the talks that were given there.
And for two reasons. First is that I was either teaching myself or
listening to some other talk. Second is because I was talking to other
people at the time of some talks and it was way more important than
visiting the talk. I can always read the paper (given that it's a complete
handout and not just the slides) later on, but I won't be able to talk to
the person who leaves on a different continent face to face later on.
I'd be even more extreme and say that for me, conferences aren't about
going to the classes, but about peer networking. Of course some people
find it hard to learn from the books and papers, and it's important for
them to attend as many talks as they can to actually learn things. But
then we are all different.
For me, since I've started going to the conferences (3 years ago), the
whole process of communicating over email is very different now, because I
can map From: addresses to faces and characters, rather than to virtual
personalities. I've to admit that many people have two personalities
anyway, one for face-to-face communications and another one for email
communications. And boy, they can be different...
Enough of blurb, I hope to meet you all at OSC. You especially have no
excuse not to come after we have crafted a whole mod_perl track for you.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://apachetoday.com http://eXtropia.com/
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: Mod Perl Tutorials??
Posted by Gunther Birznieks <gu...@extropia.com>.
At 01:21 PM 5/26/01 -0600, Nathan Torkington wrote:
>Stas Bekman writes:
>
>I'd just like to remind folks that the course-notes are not the only
>reason to attend the tutorial. The other is the face-to-face
>information exchange, which has a vastly higher bandwidth than email.
>I learned more practical information listening to the mod_perl guys
>drinking beer at ApacheCon than I did from the mailing list. I heard
>knowledge *emerge* from conversations ("wow, it sounds like most
>everyone modifies Apache::DBI for their own needs"). It was really
>cool.
I have similar thoughts. But different reasoning. Hope I don't come across
upsetting the cart. I agree with the value of attending the conference, but
with different reasoning. But then I guess everyone has their own personal
reasons for liking to attend conferences.
I don't know about higher bandwidth as mentioned above. I don't think it's
very easy to talk about code in any detailed manner over beer and I rarely
get detailed at all before lapsing into something else. Well, I guess my
brain doesn't work that way -- I either need the code laid out in an email
to understand what someone is expressing or a diagram on a whiteboard (or
maybe a napkin). I personally zone out when people talk about code over
dinner or beer.
I think there is just different things that people talk about in person
versus over an impersonal mailing list.
I think tips are easier to talk about over a beer. eg regarding
Apache::DBI... people may be embarrassed to say they are modifying an open
source module and not putting the changes back into the tree and not worthy
of a post on a mailing list going out to 20 gazillion people (well I hope
it's up to 20 gazillion people). If people are modifying Apache::DBI then
really this should be discussed as an extension to the interface on the
main list pretty soon I would think.
I also hear more about people slamming products and hailing other ones (eg
different OSs and load balancers) where they might be afraid of the
liability or getting flamed on a mailing list for doing so.
However, I do think getting to know people face to face is a good step
towards making more friends. And that these people who next see a post by
you on a list or privately will be more likely to help you or pay attention
to your issue later on when you raise it.
Also, the original person in this thread said they wanted mod_perl
tutorials later in the year. To me, the best thing rather than to come to a
conference and get training is to hire someone who really knows it and is
part of the community to get your department started on a real project. :)
So another reason to go to the conference is to recruit!
The job market is soft for IT professionals too. So there are/will be
opportunities to see people there I am sure who may be interested in
starting/technically leading a mod_perl effort in a new company. And the
best thing is, you can get to know them as a person before making offers.
You know that the mod_perl speakers in the track all know what they are
doing. Some of them may be looking for jobs or interested in a switch. Then
you can meet them personally at the BoFs or the nighly dinners to feel out
whether they would be a good social fit to the company as well as a
technical fit.
>I point this out because this year we REALLY REALLY need attendees.
>The economy is in the crapper just as we expanded to have many more
>tracks and topics (splitting mod_perl off from Perl, so you can have a
>dedicated room of just mod_perl for two days, is one example). If you
>can justify attending, and you can convince your boss to pay for it,
>then please try to come. I don't normally beg this shamelessly, but
>if we end up with 200 attendees, it *will* affect how much of a
>convention we can put on next year.
Ironically, there are those who say that this makes the conference even
better in some ways.
So precisely because the economy is in the crapper people should strive to
come to the conference if they can. To get higher bandwidth with the speakers.
No matter what I suspect that because of the economy there will be fewer
attendees this year. This actually makes for a much greater speaker to
attendee ratio and gives you a much greater opportunity to really pick
smart people's brains (assuming that most speakers are wise in the
technology they are speaking about). So there is a higher quality of being
able to chat with the people who have the knowledge you want to get.
Here is where I think the higher bandwidth argument Nathan was talking
about comes in.
Next year, the conference may be a way larger attendance again and it will
be harder to get this kind of personal attention and networking
opportunities with all the people you want to. Of course, if you attend
this year, get to know the mod_perl people, then when you attend next year,
they will know your face and you will have a better chance of talking with
them again because they'll make an effort to talk with you as well since
they'll know you.
So it's a cycle of going to conferences year after year. :)
Later,
Gunther
Re: Mod Perl Tutorials??
Posted by Nathan Torkington <gn...@oreilly.com>.
Stas Bekman writes:
> Anyway, you can take tutorials without going to any conferences. My
> tutorials are available from http://stason.org/talks/, Nat has posted his
> tutorial's URL a few months ago and it should be available in the
> archives. I suppose you can ask other folks that deliver mod_perl
> tutorials at OSC to give you the URL of their talks.
I won't be giving my tutorial at the Open Source Convention.
I'd just like to remind folks that the course-notes are not the only
reason to attend the tutorial. The other is the face-to-face
information exchange, which has a vastly higher bandwidth than email.
I learned more practical information listening to the mod_perl guys
drinking beer at ApacheCon than I did from the mailing list. I heard
knowledge *emerge* from conversations ("wow, it sounds like most
everyone modifies Apache::DBI for their own needs"). It was really
cool.
I point this out because this year we REALLY REALLY need attendees.
The economy is in the crapper just as we expanded to have many more
tracks and topics (splitting mod_perl off from Perl, so you can have a
dedicated room of just mod_perl for two days, is one example). If you
can justify attending, and you can convince your boss to pay for it,
then please try to come. I don't normally beg this shamelessly, but
if we end up with 200 attendees, it *will* affect how much of a
convention we can put on next year.
So by all means read the tutorials online, but remember that there are
lots of other reasons to attend the Open Source Convention (the big
shindig that includes The Perl Conference and the mod_perl track).
Thanks,
Nat
(oscon/tpc content planner)
Re: Mod Perl Tutorials??
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
On Sat, 26 May 2001, Gunther Birznieks wrote:
> At 03:06 PM 5/25/01 -0400, Agoston, Rich wrote:
> >Will there be other conferences later in the year that will offer these
> >types of mod perl tutorials?? Thanks.
> >
> >
> > >>>>http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/mod_perl_tutorials.ht
> >ml
>
> My belief (but Stas may be able to confirm or deny this) is that ApacheCon
> In Dublin will probably be his mod_perl tutorial next stop after OReilly
> conference. ApacheCon/Dublin is in October sometime.
Yup, there will be a whole bunch of mod_perl tutorials in Dublin, but the
deadline for proposals in June 2, and it'll take a while before the choice
will be made. I suppose that the list of tutorials for ApacheCon Europe
will be available somewhere in the end of June.
Other than that there is YAPC::Europe in Amsterdam on August 2. It sounds
like an interesting idea. I didn't think about it yet. Last year's
YAPC::Europe was a lot of fun. The problem is that it comes very close to
OSC2001... too many things to do, too little time :)
(http://yapc.org/Europe/)
Anyway, you can take tutorials without going to any conferences. My
tutorials are available from http://stason.org/talks/, Nat has posted his
tutorial's URL a few months ago and it should be available in the
archives. I suppose you can ask other folks that deliver mod_perl
tutorials at OSC to give you the URL of their talks.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://apachetoday.com http://eXtropia.com/
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
Re: Mod Perl Tutorials??
Posted by Gunther Birznieks <gu...@extropia.com>.
At 03:06 PM 5/25/01 -0400, Agoston, Rich wrote:
>Will there be other conferences later in the year that will offer these
>types of mod perl tutorials?? Thanks.
>
>
> >>>>http://conferences.oreillynet.com/cs/os2001/pub/10/mod_perl_tutorials.ht
>ml
My belief (but Stas may be able to confirm or deny this) is that ApacheCon
In Dublin will probably be his mod_perl tutorial next stop after OReilly
conference. ApacheCon/Dublin is in October sometime.
Later,
Gunther