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Posted to dev@cloudstack.apache.org by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com> on 2014/03/29 19:35:54 UTC
[QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Hi,
Quick question:
For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to just
ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
ServerResources.
For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that equate
to three ServerResources running on the management server?
Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if you have
multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of these
ServerResources have to be managed by a single management server (because
their resources are in the same cluster)?
Thanks!
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
Thanks!
On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Sateesh Chodapuneedi <
sateesh.chodapuneedi@citrix.com> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> > Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
> > To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> > Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Quick question:
> >
> > For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to just
> > ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
> ServerResources.
> >
> > For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that
> equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
> Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves
> owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs required
> operations.
>
> >
> > Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if you
> have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
> > these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management server
> (because their resources are in the same cluster)?
> I think it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
>
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > --
> > *Mike Tutkowski*
> > *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> > e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> > o: 303.746.7302
> > Advancing the way the world uses the
> > cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> > *(tm)*
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
I found a way to make this work.
For whatever reason, destroying a VM - although it seems to mainly remove
it from vCenter's inventory - leaves some info around that makes vCenter
think the datastore is still in use.
Instead of destroying the VM, what I do for managed storage (when we are
expunging the VM) is unregister it from vCenter. Once it is unregistered, I
can remove the iSCSI connections from the ESX hosts and the datastore goes
away.
Destroying a VM is supposed to be similar: It removes the VM from vCenter's
inventory and deletes all of the relevant files from the VM that are in the
datastore in question. However, there must be a VMware bug where destroying
the VM still leaves some trace in vCenter that tricks it into thinking the
datastore is still in use due to this VM.
In the case of managed storage, when you expunge the VM, I plan to delete
the corresponding SAN volume via a storage plug-in, so it doesn't matter if
there were files remaining on it from the VM or not.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
> Interesting...when I try to unmount the datastore prior to removing the
> iSCSI connections, I get a similar error to when I straight-out try to
> delete the datastore prior to removing the iSCSI connections: it says the
> datastore is still in use.
>
> When I look at the contents of the datastore, there doesn't appear to be
> anything on it.
>
> There is a clue in the fact that this is only a problem if a VM was
> running off of this datastore. If the datastore was only used to house a
> VMDK file for a data disk, there is no problem removing it by getting rid
> of the iSCSI connections to the SAN volume from the hosts.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
> mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Kelven...I had seen a similar article about Storage IO
>> Control...perhaps the article you pointed to has more info.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Would this KB article helpful? Particularly, it seems that Stroage IO
>>> control needs to disabled before detaching the datastore.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=di
>>> splayKC&externalId=2004605<http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=2004605>
>>>
>>> Kelven
>>>
>>> On 3/31/14, 3:14 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Interesting...I can look into that. Do you know off hand if we already
>>> >have
>>> >such a call to perform an unmount?
>>> >
>>> >Thanks, Kelven!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> On 3/31/14, 1:54 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >Hi Kelven,
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Thanks for the info!
>>> >> >
>>> >> >I have another question that perhaps you can answer.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >In my situation, with managed storage, I need to create and delete
>>> >> >datastores dynamically. The idea is to have a single VM (and all of
>>> its
>>> >> >corresponding files) or a single VMDK data disk file per datastore in
>>> >>some
>>> >> >cases so we can guarantee IOPS to the VM or data disk.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Each datastore is based on an iSCSI target that has guaranteed IOPS.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >For data disks, this process has worked perfectly (first implemented
>>> in
>>> >> >4.2). When I need the datastore, I create an iSCSI target on my SAN,
>>> >>then
>>> >> >establish a connection to it from each host in the VMware cluster,
>>> then
>>> >> >create a datastore on the target.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >When I no longer need the data disk, I remove the iSCSI targets from
>>> >>the
>>> >> >hosts and the datastore goes away.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >This same process works pretty well for root disks (and the other
>>> >>files of
>>> >> >a VM) except for when I want to delete the VM and get rid of its
>>> >> >datastore.
>>> >> >In this case, I follow the same process of removing the iSCSI
>>> >>connections
>>> >> >from each host in the cluster, but the datastore still shows up in
>>> >>vCenter
>>> >> >(albeit greyed out and in the inactive state when viewed through
>>> >>vSphere
>>> >> >Client).
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Any thoughts on this? I've looked into this on the web and the
>>> general
>>> >> >consensus is that the datastore is still somehow in use by vCenter.
>>> Not
>>> >> >sure why that would be, though.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Have you checked if the datastore is unmounted from all hosts within
>>> the
>>> >> cluster? When iSCSI target is added as a VMFS datastore, I believe all
>>> >> hosts within the cluster will mount it automatically. To remove the
>>> >> datastore from vCenter, you probably need to make sure the datastore
>>> is
>>> >> unmounted from all hosts.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Thanks!
>>> >> >Mike
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Kelven Yang <kelven.yang@citrix.com
>>> >
>>> >> >wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
>>> >> >> <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> >> >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
>>> >> >> >> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
>>> >> >> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>>> >> >> >> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Hi,
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Quick question:
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed
>>> to
>>> >> >>just
>>> >> >> >> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our
>>> related
>>> >> >> >>ServerResources.
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does
>>> that
>>> >> >> >>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
>>> >> >> >Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack
>>> retrieves
>>> >> >> >owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs
>>> >> >>required
>>> >> >> >operations.
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation,
>>> if
>>> >> >>you
>>> >> >> >>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
>>> >> >> >> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management
>>> >> >>server
>>> >> >> >>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
>>> >> >> >I think it is not required to be managed by a single management
>>> >>server.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management
>>> server.
>>> >>One
>>> >> >> thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool
>>> of
>>> >> >> vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired
>>> and
>>> >> >> released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to
>>> >> >>vCenter.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> Thanks!
>>> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> --
>>> >> >> >> *Mike Tutkowski*
>>> >> >> >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>>> >> >> >> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>>> >> >> >> o: 303.746.7302
>>> >> >> >> Advancing the way the world uses the
>>> >> >> >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>>> >> >> >> *(tm)*
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >--
>>> >> >*Mike Tutkowski*
>>> >> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>>> >> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>>> >> >o: 303.746.7302
>>> >> >Advancing the way the world uses the
>>> >> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>>> >> >*(tm)*
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >--
>>> >*Mike Tutkowski*
>>> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>>> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>>> >o: 303.746.7302
>>> >Advancing the way the world uses the
>>> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>>> >*(tm)*
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Mike Tutkowski*
>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> o: 303.746.7302
>> Advancing the way the world uses the cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> *(tm)*
>>
>
>
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> *(tm)*
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
Interesting...when I try to unmount the datastore prior to removing the
iSCSI connections, I get a similar error to when I straight-out try to
delete the datastore prior to removing the iSCSI connections: it says the
datastore is still in use.
When I look at the contents of the datastore, there doesn't appear to be
anything on it.
There is a clue in the fact that this is only a problem if a VM was running
off of this datastore. If the datastore was only used to house a VMDK file
for a data disk, there is no problem removing it by getting rid of the
iSCSI connections to the SAN volume from the hosts.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Mike Tutkowski <
mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Kelven...I had seen a similar article about Storage IO
> Control...perhaps the article you pointed to has more info.
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>wrote:
>
>> Would this KB article helpful? Particularly, it seems that Stroage IO
>> control needs to disabled before detaching the datastore.
>>
>>
>> http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=di
>> splayKC&externalId=2004605<http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=displayKC&externalId=2004605>
>>
>> Kelven
>>
>> On 3/31/14, 3:14 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Interesting...I can look into that. Do you know off hand if we already
>> >have
>> >such a call to perform an unmount?
>> >
>> >Thanks, Kelven!
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> On 3/31/14, 1:54 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Hi Kelven,
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks for the info!
>> >> >
>> >> >I have another question that perhaps you can answer.
>> >> >
>> >> >In my situation, with managed storage, I need to create and delete
>> >> >datastores dynamically. The idea is to have a single VM (and all of
>> its
>> >> >corresponding files) or a single VMDK data disk file per datastore in
>> >>some
>> >> >cases so we can guarantee IOPS to the VM or data disk.
>> >> >
>> >> >Each datastore is based on an iSCSI target that has guaranteed IOPS.
>> >> >
>> >> >For data disks, this process has worked perfectly (first implemented
>> in
>> >> >4.2). When I need the datastore, I create an iSCSI target on my SAN,
>> >>then
>> >> >establish a connection to it from each host in the VMware cluster,
>> then
>> >> >create a datastore on the target.
>> >> >
>> >> >When I no longer need the data disk, I remove the iSCSI targets from
>> >>the
>> >> >hosts and the datastore goes away.
>> >> >
>> >> >This same process works pretty well for root disks (and the other
>> >>files of
>> >> >a VM) except for when I want to delete the VM and get rid of its
>> >> >datastore.
>> >> >In this case, I follow the same process of removing the iSCSI
>> >>connections
>> >> >from each host in the cluster, but the datastore still shows up in
>> >>vCenter
>> >> >(albeit greyed out and in the inactive state when viewed through
>> >>vSphere
>> >> >Client).
>> >> >
>> >> >Any thoughts on this? I've looked into this on the web and the general
>> >> >consensus is that the datastore is still somehow in use by vCenter.
>> Not
>> >> >sure why that would be, though.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Have you checked if the datastore is unmounted from all hosts within
>> the
>> >> cluster? When iSCSI target is added as a VMFS datastore, I believe all
>> >> hosts within the cluster will mount it automatically. To remove the
>> >> datastore from vCenter, you probably need to make sure the datastore is
>> >> unmounted from all hosts.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks!
>> >> >Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
>> >> >> <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
>> >> >> >> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
>> >> >> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >> >> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Quick question:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to
>> >> >>just
>> >> >> >> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
>> >> >> >>ServerResources.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does
>> that
>> >> >> >>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
>> >> >> >Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack
>> retrieves
>> >> >> >owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs
>> >> >>required
>> >> >> >operations.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation,
>> if
>> >> >>you
>> >> >> >>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
>> >> >> >> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management
>> >> >>server
>> >> >> >>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
>> >> >> >I think it is not required to be managed by a single management
>> >>server.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
>> >>One
>> >> >> thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool of
>> >> >> vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired
>> and
>> >> >> released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to
>> >> >>vCenter.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Thanks!
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> *Mike Tutkowski*
>> >> >> >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> >> >> >> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> >> >> >> o: 303.746.7302
>> >> >> >> Advancing the way the world uses the
>> >> >> >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> >> >> >> *(tm)*
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >*Mike Tutkowski*
>> >> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> >> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> >> >o: 303.746.7302
>> >> >Advancing the way the world uses the
>> >> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> >> >*(tm)*
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >*Mike Tutkowski*
>> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> >o: 303.746.7302
>> >Advancing the way the world uses the
>> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> >*(tm)*
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> *(tm)*
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
Thanks, Kelven...I had seen a similar article about Storage IO
Control...perhaps the article you pointed to has more info.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com> wrote:
> Would this KB article helpful? Particularly, it seems that Stroage IO
> control needs to disabled before detaching the datastore.
>
> http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=di
> splayKC&externalId=2004605
>
> Kelven
>
> On 3/31/14, 3:14 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Interesting...I can look into that. Do you know off hand if we already
> >have
> >such a call to perform an unmount?
> >
> >Thanks, Kelven!
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On 3/31/14, 1:54 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Hi Kelven,
> >> >
> >> >Thanks for the info!
> >> >
> >> >I have another question that perhaps you can answer.
> >> >
> >> >In my situation, with managed storage, I need to create and delete
> >> >datastores dynamically. The idea is to have a single VM (and all of its
> >> >corresponding files) or a single VMDK data disk file per datastore in
> >>some
> >> >cases so we can guarantee IOPS to the VM or data disk.
> >> >
> >> >Each datastore is based on an iSCSI target that has guaranteed IOPS.
> >> >
> >> >For data disks, this process has worked perfectly (first implemented in
> >> >4.2). When I need the datastore, I create an iSCSI target on my SAN,
> >>then
> >> >establish a connection to it from each host in the VMware cluster, then
> >> >create a datastore on the target.
> >> >
> >> >When I no longer need the data disk, I remove the iSCSI targets from
> >>the
> >> >hosts and the datastore goes away.
> >> >
> >> >This same process works pretty well for root disks (and the other
> >>files of
> >> >a VM) except for when I want to delete the VM and get rid of its
> >> >datastore.
> >> >In this case, I follow the same process of removing the iSCSI
> >>connections
> >> >from each host in the cluster, but the datastore still shows up in
> >>vCenter
> >> >(albeit greyed out and in the inactive state when viewed through
> >>vSphere
> >> >Client).
> >> >
> >> >Any thoughts on this? I've looked into this on the web and the general
> >> >consensus is that the datastore is still somehow in use by vCenter. Not
> >> >sure why that would be, though.
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you checked if the datastore is unmounted from all hosts within the
> >> cluster? When iSCSI target is added as a VMFS datastore, I believe all
> >> hosts within the cluster will mount it automatically. To remove the
> >> datastore from vCenter, you probably need to make sure the datastore is
> >> unmounted from all hosts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Thanks!
> >> >Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
> >> >> <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> >> >> >> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
> >> >> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> >> >> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Quick question:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to
> >> >>just
> >> >> >> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
> >> >> >>ServerResources.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that
> >> >> >>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
> >> >> >Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves
> >> >> >owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs
> >> >>required
> >> >> >operations.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if
> >> >>you
> >> >> >>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
> >> >> >> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management
> >> >>server
> >> >> >>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
> >> >> >I think it is not required to be managed by a single management
> >>server.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
> >>One
> >> >> thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool of
> >> >> vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired and
> >> >> released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to
> >> >>vCenter.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Thanks!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> *Mike Tutkowski*
> >> >> >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> >> >> >> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> >> >> >> o: 303.746.7302
> >> >> >> Advancing the way the world uses the
> >> >> >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> >> >> >> *(tm)*
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >--
> >> >*Mike Tutkowski*
> >> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> >> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> >> >o: 303.746.7302
> >> >Advancing the way the world uses the
> >> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> >> >*(tm)*
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >*Mike Tutkowski*
> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> >o: 303.746.7302
> >Advancing the way the world uses the
> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> >*(tm)*
>
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>.
Would this KB article helpful? Particularly, it seems that Stroage IO
control needs to disabled before detaching the datastore.
http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?language=en_US&cmd=di
splayKC&externalId=2004605
Kelven
On 3/31/14, 3:14 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com> wrote:
>Interesting...I can look into that. Do you know off hand if we already
>have
>such a call to perform an unmount?
>
>Thanks, Kelven!
>
>
>On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>> On 3/31/14, 1:54 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Hi Kelven,
>> >
>> >Thanks for the info!
>> >
>> >I have another question that perhaps you can answer.
>> >
>> >In my situation, with managed storage, I need to create and delete
>> >datastores dynamically. The idea is to have a single VM (and all of its
>> >corresponding files) or a single VMDK data disk file per datastore in
>>some
>> >cases so we can guarantee IOPS to the VM or data disk.
>> >
>> >Each datastore is based on an iSCSI target that has guaranteed IOPS.
>> >
>> >For data disks, this process has worked perfectly (first implemented in
>> >4.2). When I need the datastore, I create an iSCSI target on my SAN,
>>then
>> >establish a connection to it from each host in the VMware cluster, then
>> >create a datastore on the target.
>> >
>> >When I no longer need the data disk, I remove the iSCSI targets from
>>the
>> >hosts and the datastore goes away.
>> >
>> >This same process works pretty well for root disks (and the other
>>files of
>> >a VM) except for when I want to delete the VM and get rid of its
>> >datastore.
>> >In this case, I follow the same process of removing the iSCSI
>>connections
>> >from each host in the cluster, but the datastore still shows up in
>>vCenter
>> >(albeit greyed out and in the inactive state when viewed through
>>vSphere
>> >Client).
>> >
>> >Any thoughts on this? I've looked into this on the web and the general
>> >consensus is that the datastore is still somehow in use by vCenter. Not
>> >sure why that would be, though.
>>
>>
>> Have you checked if the datastore is unmounted from all hosts within the
>> cluster? When iSCSI target is added as a VMFS datastore, I believe all
>> hosts within the cluster will mount it automatically. To remove the
>> datastore from vCenter, you probably need to make sure the datastore is
>> unmounted from all hosts.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Thanks!
>> >Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
>> >> <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
>> >> >> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
>> >> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> >> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Quick question:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to
>> >>just
>> >> >> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
>> >> >>ServerResources.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that
>> >> >>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
>> >> >Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves
>> >> >owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs
>> >>required
>> >> >operations.
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if
>> >>you
>> >> >>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
>> >> >> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management
>> >>server
>> >> >>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
>> >> >I think it is not required to be managed by a single management
>>server.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
>>One
>> >> thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool of
>> >> vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired and
>> >> released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to
>> >>vCenter.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> *Mike Tutkowski*
>> >> >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> >> >> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> >> >> o: 303.746.7302
>> >> >> Advancing the way the world uses the
>> >> >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> >> >> *(tm)*
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >*Mike Tutkowski*
>> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> >o: 303.746.7302
>> >Advancing the way the world uses the
>> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> >*(tm)*
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>*Mike Tutkowski*
>*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>o: 303.746.7302
>Advancing the way the world uses the
>cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
Interesting...I can look into that. Do you know off hand if we already have
such a call to perform an unmount?
Thanks, Kelven!
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/31/14, 1:54 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Hi Kelven,
> >
> >Thanks for the info!
> >
> >I have another question that perhaps you can answer.
> >
> >In my situation, with managed storage, I need to create and delete
> >datastores dynamically. The idea is to have a single VM (and all of its
> >corresponding files) or a single VMDK data disk file per datastore in some
> >cases so we can guarantee IOPS to the VM or data disk.
> >
> >Each datastore is based on an iSCSI target that has guaranteed IOPS.
> >
> >For data disks, this process has worked perfectly (first implemented in
> >4.2). When I need the datastore, I create an iSCSI target on my SAN, then
> >establish a connection to it from each host in the VMware cluster, then
> >create a datastore on the target.
> >
> >When I no longer need the data disk, I remove the iSCSI targets from the
> >hosts and the datastore goes away.
> >
> >This same process works pretty well for root disks (and the other files of
> >a VM) except for when I want to delete the VM and get rid of its
> >datastore.
> >In this case, I follow the same process of removing the iSCSI connections
> >from each host in the cluster, but the datastore still shows up in vCenter
> >(albeit greyed out and in the inactive state when viewed through vSphere
> >Client).
> >
> >Any thoughts on this? I've looked into this on the web and the general
> >consensus is that the datastore is still somehow in use by vCenter. Not
> >sure why that would be, though.
>
>
> Have you checked if the datastore is unmounted from all hosts within the
> cluster? When iSCSI target is added as a VMFS datastore, I believe all
> hosts within the cluster will mount it automatically. To remove the
> datastore from vCenter, you probably need to make sure the datastore is
> unmounted from all hosts.
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >Thanks!
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
> >> <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> >> >> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
> >> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> >> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
> >> >>
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >> Quick question:
> >> >>
> >> >> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to
> >>just
> >> >> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
> >> >>ServerResources.
> >> >>
> >> >> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that
> >> >>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
> >> >Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves
> >> >owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs
> >>required
> >> >operations.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if
> >>you
> >> >>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
> >> >> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management
> >>server
> >> >>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
> >> >I think it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management server. One
> >> thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool of
> >> vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired and
> >> released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to
> >>vCenter.
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks!
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> *Mike Tutkowski*
> >> >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> >> >> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> >> >> o: 303.746.7302
> >> >> Advancing the way the world uses the
> >> >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> >> >> *(tm)*
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >--
> >*Mike Tutkowski*
> >*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> >e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> >o: 303.746.7302
> >Advancing the way the world uses the
> >cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> >*(tm)*
>
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>.
On 3/31/14, 1:54 PM, "Mike Tutkowski" <mi...@solidfire.com> wrote:
>Hi Kelven,
>
>Thanks for the info!
>
>I have another question that perhaps you can answer.
>
>In my situation, with managed storage, I need to create and delete
>datastores dynamically. The idea is to have a single VM (and all of its
>corresponding files) or a single VMDK data disk file per datastore in some
>cases so we can guarantee IOPS to the VM or data disk.
>
>Each datastore is based on an iSCSI target that has guaranteed IOPS.
>
>For data disks, this process has worked perfectly (first implemented in
>4.2). When I need the datastore, I create an iSCSI target on my SAN, then
>establish a connection to it from each host in the VMware cluster, then
>create a datastore on the target.
>
>When I no longer need the data disk, I remove the iSCSI targets from the
>hosts and the datastore goes away.
>
>This same process works pretty well for root disks (and the other files of
>a VM) except for when I want to delete the VM and get rid of its
>datastore.
>In this case, I follow the same process of removing the iSCSI connections
>from each host in the cluster, but the datastore still shows up in vCenter
>(albeit greyed out and in the inactive state when viewed through vSphere
>Client).
>
>Any thoughts on this? I've looked into this on the web and the general
>consensus is that the datastore is still somehow in use by vCenter. Not
>sure why that would be, though.
Have you checked if the datastore is unmounted from all hosts within the
cluster? When iSCSI target is added as a VMFS datastore, I believe all
hosts within the cluster will mount it automatically. To remove the
datastore from vCenter, you probably need to make sure the datastore is
unmounted from all hosts.
>
>Thanks!
>Mike
>
>
>On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
>> <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
>>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
>> >> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
>> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> >> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
>> >>
>> >> Hi,
>> >>
>> >> Quick question:
>> >>
>> >> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to
>>just
>> >> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
>> >>ServerResources.
>> >>
>> >> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that
>> >>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
>> >Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves
>> >owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs
>>required
>> >operations.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if
>>you
>> >>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
>> >> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management
>>server
>> >>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
>> >I think it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
>>
>>
>> Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management server. One
>> thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool of
>> vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired and
>> released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to
>>vCenter.
>>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> *Mike Tutkowski*
>> >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> >> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> >> o: 303.746.7302
>> >> Advancing the way the world uses the
>> >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> >> *(tm)*
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>*Mike Tutkowski*
>*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>o: 303.746.7302
>Advancing the way the world uses the
>cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Mike Tutkowski <mi...@solidfire.com>.
Hi Kelven,
Thanks for the info!
I have another question that perhaps you can answer.
In my situation, with managed storage, I need to create and delete
datastores dynamically. The idea is to have a single VM (and all of its
corresponding files) or a single VMDK data disk file per datastore in some
cases so we can guarantee IOPS to the VM or data disk.
Each datastore is based on an iSCSI target that has guaranteed IOPS.
For data disks, this process has worked perfectly (first implemented in
4.2). When I need the datastore, I create an iSCSI target on my SAN, then
establish a connection to it from each host in the VMware cluster, then
create a datastore on the target.
When I no longer need the data disk, I remove the iSCSI targets from the
hosts and the datastore goes away.
This same process works pretty well for root disks (and the other files of
a VM) except for when I want to delete the VM and get rid of its datastore.
In this case, I follow the same process of removing the iSCSI connections
from each host in the cluster, but the datastore still shows up in vCenter
(albeit greyed out and in the inactive state when viewed through vSphere
Client).
Any thoughts on this? I've looked into this on the web and the general
consensus is that the datastore is still somehow in use by vCenter. Not
sure why that would be, though.
Thanks!
Mike
On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:45 PM, Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
> <sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> >> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
> >> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> >> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Quick question:
> >>
> >> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to just
> >> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
> >>ServerResources.
> >>
> >> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that
> >>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
> >Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves
> >owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs required
> >operations.
> >
> >>
> >> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if you
> >>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
> >> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management server
> >>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
> >I think it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
>
>
> Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management server. One
> thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool of
> vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired and
> released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to vCenter.
>
>
> >
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> --
> >> *Mike Tutkowski*
> >> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> >> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> >> o: 303.746.7302
> >> Advancing the way the world uses the
> >> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> >> *(tm)*
>
>
--
*Mike Tutkowski*
*Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
o: 303.746.7302
Advancing the way the world uses the
cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
*(tm)*
Re: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Kelven Yang <ke...@citrix.com>.
On 3/29/14, 7:31 PM, "Sateesh Chodapuneedi"
<sa...@citrix.com> wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
>> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
>> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
>> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Quick question:
>>
>> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to just
>> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related
>>ServerResources.
>>
>> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that
>>equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
>Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves
>owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs required
>operations.
>
>>
>> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if you
>>have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
>> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management server
>>(because their resources are in the same cluster)?
>I think it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
Yes, it is not required to be managed by a single management server. One
thing to note that, all resource instances are now sharing a pool of
vCenter sessions, an instance of such vCenter session is acquired and
released by server resource when it needs to perform operations to vCenter.
>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> *Mike Tutkowski*
>> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
>> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
>> o: 303.746.7302
>> Advancing the way the world uses the
>> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
>> *(tm)*
RE: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Sateesh Chodapuneedi <sa...@citrix.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
>
> Hi,
>
> Quick question:
>
> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to just
> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related ServerResources.
>
> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs required operations.
>
> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if you have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management server (because their resources are in the same cluster)?
I think it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the
> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> *(tm)*
RE: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
Posted by Sateesh Chodapuneedi <sa...@citrix.com>.
Regards,
Sateesh
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Tutkowski [mailto:mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com]
> Sent: 30 March 2014 00:06
> To: dev@cloudstack.apache.org
> Subject: [QUESTION] VMware ServerResource
>
> Hi,
>
> Quick question:
>
> For VMware, since we have vCenter Server in the mix as opposed to just
> ESX(i) hosts, I was wondering how that works out with our related ServerResources.
>
> For example, if you have a cluster with three ESX hosts, does that equate to three ServerResources running on the management server?
Yes, each host is tracked by a server resource. CloudStack retrieves owning cluster/datacenter as required from vCenter and performs required operations.
>
> Assuming that leads to three ServerResources in that situation, if you have multiple management servers for your cloud, do all three of
> these ServerResources have to be managed by a single management server (because their resources are in the same cluster)?
I think it is not required to be managed by a single management server.
>
> Thanks!
>
> --
> *Mike Tutkowski*
> *Senior CloudStack Developer, SolidFire Inc.*
> e: mike.tutkowski@solidfire.com
> o: 303.746.7302
> Advancing the way the world uses the
> cloud<http://solidfire.com/solution/overview/?video=play>
> *(tm)*