You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de> on 2012/08/09 15:41:20 UTC
ODF angle in draw:transform are in degrees
Hi,
there is a problem which I have not addressed in the Wiki (see other
mail). As far as I see, the specification ODF 1.1 has no setting for the
unit of the angles, but ODF 1.2 set it to "degrees". SVG has it in
degrees too, so this setting is reasonable.
But our implementation uses "radians". So there are a lot of documents
out, that have the angle in radians in the document.
Any idea how to proceed?
Kind regards
Regina
RE: ODF angle in draw:transform are in degrees
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
@Regina,
Thanks. I agree that the transform case needs to be taken up also. My sense is that there is agreement that there should be transposition to SVG with attention to migration and down-level compatibility issues.
I also agree that the situation with existing ODF 1.0/../1.2 documents and implementations must be clarified, where practical, with advisories and errata.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.henschel@t-online.de]
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 10:33
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; LO-dev
Subject: Re: ODF angle in draw:transform are in degrees
Hi Dennis,
[ ... ]
That is the problem with the unit of angles for gradients. But this here
is different. It is about transformations. The matrix has no problems,
because the relevant matrix elements are used as unitless factor. But
rotate, skewX and skewY have angles as parameter.
>
> The next step is to come up with a new attribute (or attributes) that
> correspond to SVG provisions and are rigorously defined. The new
> attribute(s) would appear down-level (i.e., in ODF
> 1.0/1.1/IS26300/1.2) as extensions and be ignored but be official in
> ODF 1.3 (which would deprecate but not remove draw:angle).
>
> If the SVG-aligned attributes are present (and to be required in ODF
> 1.3 documents, let's say) and recognized, they would over-rule
> draw:angle. ODF 1.3 Producers that wanted to ensure down-level
> interoperability would produce both attributes.
>
> How does that sound?
It would be great to have an attribute svg:transform. That would be the
best solution for me and will prevent further trouble.
Nevertheless the problem remains, that
ODF1.1 has no unit at all and documents written by StarOffice use
unit rad,
and ODF1.2 specifies degree, but at least Apache OpenOffice,
LibreOffice and Powerpoint 2013 use rad.
I don't know, whether Gnumeric uses <draw:transform>. I have seen in the
meantime that Genumeric uses the attribute <draw:angle> in fillings in
charts and unfortunately (from Apache OpenOffice point of view) Gnumeric
uses it in deg there and not 0.1deg.
So there are some rules or hints needed, how to tread documents which
are ODF1.1 or ODF1.2.
Kind regards
Regina
[ ... ]
Re: ODF angle in draw:transform are in degrees
Posted by Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de>.
Hi Dennis,
Dennis E. Hamilton schrieb:
> The proposal that Regina brought to the ODF TC is safer. It does not
> depend on attempting to identify the producer. (In fact, the ODF
> specification says that the generator identification is *not* to be
> used in this manner. It is also unreliably used.)
>
> The idea is to face reality and affirm that draw:angle has an integer
> value that expresses the angle in units of 1/10-th degree. (There
> are other aspects of this problem that are not so clean cut.)
>
> This supports alignment on the present reality and preserves the
> interoperability that is afforded with that treatment.
That is the problem with the unit of angles for gradients. But this here
is different. It is about transformations. The matrix has no problems,
because the relevant matrix elements are used as unitless factor. But
rotate, skewX and skewY have angles as parameter.
>
> The next step is to come up with a new attribute (or attributes) that
> correspond to SVG provisions and are rigorously defined. The new
> attribute(s) would appear down-level (i.e., in ODF
> 1.0/1.1/IS26300/1.2) as extensions and be ignored but be official in
> ODF 1.3 (which would deprecate but not remove draw:angle).
>
> If the SVG-aligned attributes are present (and to be required in ODF
> 1.3 documents, let's say) and recognized, they would over-rule
> draw:angle. ODF 1.3 Producers that wanted to ensure down-level
> interoperability would produce both attributes.
>
> How does that sound?
It would be great to have an attribute svg:transform. That would be the
best solution for me and will prevent further trouble.
Nevertheless the problem remains, that
ODF1.1 has no unit at all and documents written by StarOffice use
unit rad,
and ODF1.2 specifies degree, but at least Apache OpenOffice,
LibreOffice and Powerpoint 2013 use rad.
I don't know, whether Gnumeric uses <draw:transform>. I have seen in the
meantime that Genumeric uses the attribute <draw:angle> in fillings in
charts and unfortunately (from Apache OpenOffice point of view) Gnumeric
uses it in deg there and not 0.1deg.
So there are some rules or hints needed, how to tread documents which
are ODF1.1 or ODF1.2.
Kind regards
Regina
>
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message----- From:
> libreoffice-bounces+dennis.hamilton=acm.org@lists.freedesktop.org
> [mailto:libreoffice-bounces+dennis.hamilton=acm.org@lists.freedesktop.org]
> On Behalf Of Noel Grandin Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 23:58 To:
> Apache OpenOffice dev Cc: LO-dev Subject: Re: ODF angle in
> draw:transform are in degrees
>
> One way would be to add a new attribute specifying either degrees or
> radians. Then modify the loader code so it looks at the application
> that created the file to determine what it should do in cases where
> there is not attribute. Fundamentally, I don't see that there is a
> "perfect" solution to this.
>
> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Regina Henschel
> <rb...@t-online.de> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> there is a problem which I have not addressed in the Wiki (see
>> other mail). As far as I see, the specification ODF 1.1 has no
>> setting for the unit of the angles, but ODF 1.2 set it to
>> "degrees". SVG has it in degrees too, so this setting is
>> reasonable.
>>
>> But our implementation uses "radians". So there are a lot of
>> documents out, that have the angle in radians in the document.
>>
>> Any idea how to proceed?
>>
>> Kind regards Regina
>>
>> _______________________________________________ LibreOffice mailing
>> list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
>> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
> _______________________________________________ LibreOffice mailing
> list LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
>
>
RE: ODF angle in draw:transform are in degrees
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
The proposal that Regina brought to the ODF TC is safer. It does not depend on attempting to identify the producer. (In fact, the ODF specification says that the generator identification is *not* to be used in this manner. It is also unreliably used.)
The idea is to face reality and affirm that draw:angle has an integer value that expresses the angle in units of 1/10-th degree. (There are other aspects of this problem that are not so clean cut.)
This supports alignment on the present reality and preserves the interoperability that is afforded with that treatment.
The next step is to come up with a new attribute (or attributes) that correspond to SVG provisions and are rigorously defined. The new attribute(s) would appear down-level (i.e., in ODF 1.0/1.1/IS26300/1.2) as extensions and be ignored but be official in ODF 1.3 (which would deprecate but not remove draw:angle).
If the SVG-aligned attributes are present (and to be required in ODF 1.3 documents, let's say) and recognized, they would over-rule draw:angle. ODF 1.3 Producers that wanted to ensure down-level interoperability would produce both attributes.
How does that sound?
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: libreoffice-bounces+dennis.hamilton=acm.org@lists.freedesktop.org [mailto:libreoffice-bounces+dennis.hamilton=acm.org@lists.freedesktop.org] On Behalf Of Noel Grandin
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 23:58
To: Apache OpenOffice dev
Cc: LO-dev
Subject: Re: ODF angle in draw:transform are in degrees
One way would be to add a new attribute specifying either degrees or radians.
Then modify the loader code so it looks at the application that
created the file to determine what it should do in cases where there
is not attribute.
Fundamentally, I don't see that there is a "perfect" solution to this.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there is a problem which I have not addressed in the Wiki (see other mail).
> As far as I see, the specification ODF 1.1 has no setting for the unit of
> the angles, but ODF 1.2 set it to "degrees". SVG has it in degrees too, so
> this setting is reasonable.
>
> But our implementation uses "radians". So there are a lot of documents out,
> that have the angle in radians in the document.
>
> Any idea how to proceed?
>
> Kind regards
> Regina
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
_______________________________________________
LibreOffice mailing list
LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice
Re: ODF angle in draw:transform are in degrees
Posted by Noel Grandin <no...@gmail.com>.
One way would be to add a new attribute specifying either degrees or radians.
Then modify the loader code so it looks at the application that
created the file to determine what it should do in cases where there
is not attribute.
Fundamentally, I don't see that there is a "perfect" solution to this.
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 3:41 PM, Regina Henschel <rb...@t-online.de> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there is a problem which I have not addressed in the Wiki (see other mail).
> As far as I see, the specification ODF 1.1 has no setting for the unit of
> the angles, but ODF 1.2 set it to "degrees". SVG has it in degrees too, so
> this setting is reasonable.
>
> But our implementation uses "radians". So there are a lot of documents out,
> that have the angle in radians in the document.
>
> Any idea how to proceed?
>
> Kind regards
> Regina
>
> _______________________________________________
> LibreOffice mailing list
> LibreOffice@lists.freedesktop.org
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/libreoffice