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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by robert burrell donkin <rd...@apache.org> on 2003/02/20 18:43:52 UTC
[RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
the following committers have passed the PMC nomination vote proposed by
sam ruby:
- Danny Angus
- Peter Carlson
- Morgan Delagrange
- Ceki Gülcü
- Dmitri Plotnikov
- Phillip Rhodes
- James Strachan
- Jason van Zyl
- Ted Husted
- Rod Waldhoff
i'm sending this to let you all know.
the role of jakarta PMC is changing but rather than give an opinion and
pretend some authority i don't have, take a look at this thread:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=104561165403863&w=2
i hope you'll accept the nomination.
- robert
On Wednesday, February 19, 2003, at 10:41 PM, Sam Ruby wrote:
<snip>
> Suggestion: let's call this round complete at this time, and start a new
> round next month. I'll notify the board later tonight that everyone in
> the following list (minus Pier) is to be added to the Jakarta PMC:
>
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=104518242028805&w=2
>
> At the same time, I will also request that Stephen Colebourne be
> dismissed without prejudice [1] from the roster of the Jakarta PMC.
>
> Next month, lets start with the nominations that didn't quite make this
> round, and add to the list.
>
> - Sam Ruby
>
> [1] http://www.lectlaw.com/def/d062.htm
>
>
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> "Sam Ruby" <ru...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>
>>>I nominate Pier Fumagalli for membership in the Jakarta PMC, for a
>>>period exceeding that of any Italian post-war government.
>>
>>+1
>
>
> I thank you and esteem the trust you guys have in me, and I feel honored of
> this nomination. But (there's always a but) "I literally have no bandwidth
> to bear the oversighting responsibilities that a PMC member should fulfill.
> If I have/want to be a PMC member, I need to be an active one."
>
> Therefore, although extremely flattered by this offer, I will have to
> reject. I have a more-than-full time job, two major involvements with two
> open source projects outside the scope of this PMC (Jetty and Cocoon), two
> cats and I'm also trying to work on the "girlfriend" part...
LOL, the final statement show clearly that Pier will have less
time for OSS since 'girlfriend part' (I'm married so trust me ;)
>
> Thank you very much for your support and friendship...
BTW, with or without Pier at PMC, Apache Commiters should recognise
Pier as a mandatory system admin ;)
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Sam Ruby" <ru...@apache.org> wrote:
> Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>
>> I nominate Pier Fumagalli for membership in the Jakarta PMC, for a
>> period exceeding that of any Italian post-war government.
>
> +1
I thank you and esteem the trust you guys have in me, and I feel honored of
this nomination. But (there's always a but) "I literally have no bandwidth
to bear the oversighting responsibilities that a PMC member should fulfill.
If I have/want to be a PMC member, I need to be an active one."
Therefore, although extremely flattered by this offer, I will have to
reject. I have a more-than-full time job, two major involvements with two
open source projects outside the scope of this PMC (Jetty and Cocoon), two
cats and I'm also trying to work on the "girlfriend" part...
Thank you very much for your support and friendship...
Pier
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> I nominate Pier Fumagalli for membership in the Jakarta PMC, for a
> period exceeding that of any Italian post-war government.
+1
- Sam Ruby
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 09:43 AM, Sam Ruby wrote:
> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> I am more than you are, as my name pops on and off the proposed PMC
>> members
>> as yours does depending on the mood of the day...
>
> Pier, let me make this quite clear: I want you to be a member of the
> Jakarta PMC. Any time anybody submits your name, I will vote +1.
>
I nominate Pier Fumagalli for membership in the Jakarta PMC, for a
period exceeding that of any Italian post-war government.
geir
> - Sam Ruby
>
>
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>
--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
> I am more than you are, as my name pops on and off the proposed PMC members
> as yours does depending on the mood of the day...
Pier, let me make this quite clear: I want you to be a member of the
Jakarta PMC. Any time anybody submits your name, I will vote +1.
- Sam Ruby
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Henri Gomez" <hg...@apache.org> wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> the following committers have passed the PMC nomination vote proposed by
>> sam ruby:
>>
>> - Danny Angus
>> - Peter Carlson
>> - Morgan Delagrange
>> - Ceki Gülcü
>> - Dmitri Plotnikov
>> - Phillip Rhodes
>> - James Strachan
>> - Jason van Zyl
>> - Ted Husted
>> - Rod Waldhoff
>>
>> i'm sending this to let you all know.
>>
>> the role of jakarta PMC is changing but rather than give an opinion and
>> pretend some authority i don't have, take a look at this thread:
>
> What do you means by passed the PMC nomination ?
> I'm confused with the original mail where many commiters were
> elected as Jakarta PMC members ?
I am more than you are, as my name pops on and off the proposed PMC members
as yours does depending on the mood of the day...
Pier :-)
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
Sam Ruby wrote:
> Henri Gomez wrote:
>
>>
>> What do you means by passed the PMC nomination ?
>> I'm confused with the original mail where many commiters were
>> elected as Jakarta PMC members ?
>
>
> The ASF chairmain maintains a list of members of each of the PMCs in
> cvs. If you are an ASF committer, check out cvs module "commiters",
> look in a directory named board, and you will find a file named
> commitee-info. Henri: your name appears in the Jakarta PMC list. If
> you would like it to be removed, let me know.
You're kidding ;)
I'm more than honored to be in PMC and wonder if there is some 'private
lists' to subscribe to ....
Regards and thanks again for the nomination
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
Henri Gomez wrote:
>
> What do you means by passed the PMC nomination ?
> I'm confused with the original mail where many commiters were
> elected as Jakarta PMC members ?
The ASF chairmain maintains a list of members of each of the PMCs in
cvs. If you are an ASF committer, check out cvs module "commiters",
look in a directory named board, and you will find a file named
commitee-info. Henri: your name appears in the Jakarta PMC list. If
you would like it to be removed, let me know.
I have not sumbitted the latest round on the off chance that there are
any remaining challenges to be made.
- Sam Ruby
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RE: cvs.apache.org SSH fingerprints
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
infrastructure at apache.org
There was talk about IP addresses changing, this could have the effect you describe, whereby ssh is not associating the key with the host it is registered for.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Walding [mailto:ben@walding.com]
> Sent: 21 February 2003 09:29
> To: Jakarta General List
> Subject: cvs.apache.org SSH fingerprints
>
>
> Is there a reason that the host fingerprints changed?
>
> The authenticity of host 'cvs.apache.org (208.185.179.13)' can't be
> established.
> DSA key fingerprint is 79:7c:cb:6a:44:47:b2:ef:5c:66:28:d7:40:0d:b1:f9.
> Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)?
>
> (I have a host key for cvs.apache.org in known_hosts, but obviously it
> doesn't match)
>
>
> Is there a mailing list for those kind of announcements?
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Ben
>
>
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cvs.apache.org SSH fingerprints
Posted by Ben Walding <be...@walding.com>.
Is there a reason that the host fingerprints changed?
The authenticity of host 'cvs.apache.org (208.185.179.13)' can't be
established.
DSA key fingerprint is 79:7c:cb:6a:44:47:b2:ef:5c:66:28:d7:40:0d:b1:f9.
Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)?
(I have a host key for cvs.apache.org in known_hosts, but obviously it
doesn't match)
Is there a mailing list for those kind of announcements?
Cheers,
Ben
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RE: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Danny Angus <da...@apache.org>.
> Sorry, my mistake - I was thinking about all "vote results" in general,
> i.e. whatever gets voted on various parts of jakarta.
> The problem is that even on the projects that I track, it is sometimes
> difficult to figure out what was the vote result - after the vote text
> changes few times and people change their vote and so on.
I've been involved in setting up a few closed projects, work and publicly funded, involving collaborations of people from all over.
One thing that we've tried successfully is this..
A motion is proposed then after 72 hours of voting, perhaps 5 days would be more suited here, it is the responsibility of the proposer to post the result back to the list on which the motion was proposed.
Only when the result is posted by the proposer is the motion formally accepted or defeated.
No changes to the motion are allowed, you would have to defeat the motion and propose an alternative.
Likewise no additions are allowed, instead another motion should be proposed.
It would only take 5 minutes to adopt this and it might a little extra discipline to, or remove some abiguity from, the Jakarta voting rules.
d.
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
Jeffrey Dever wrote:
> Vote results? It unclear even when a vote is taking place and who the
> nominees are. I thought we just finished a round on the 19th with an
Sorry, my mistake - I was thinking about all "vote results" in general,
i.e. whatever gets voted on various parts of jakarta.
The problem is that even on the projects that I track, it is sometimes
difficult to figure out what was the vote result - after the vote text
changes few times and people change their vote and so on.
If the vote results would be posted to pmc ( or checked in some CVS
or anything like that ) - it would be easier for all people to get an
idea of what's happening, even in projects they're not directly involved.
IT's not only for PMC - it is a useful information for everyone.
> Last week I was happy working on my project. Then I find out that
> voting rights on releases will be taken away unless I join the new
> expanded PMC. But the process appears to be in shambles.
No vote right will be "taken" - quite the contrary :-)
Costin
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Jeffrey Dever wrote, On 21/02/2003 23.23:
...
> Last week I was happy working on my project. Then I find out that
> voting rights on releases will be taken away unless I join the new
> expanded PMC.
Not exactly. *Eventually* it will happen, but there is no "taking away
voting rights", and certainly not now. Being part of the PMC won't
change your way of doing things for now, other than making the PMC fully
aware of the proceedings.
...
> When the PMC decided to expand from 7 to up to the number of committers
> worth of members, nobody thought to spend 45 minutes creating a voting
> servelt to streamline the process? 98% of us are programmers and all we
> could come up with was completely chaotic +1/0/-1 on a mailing list?
Well, this is how all Apache operates, I wouldn't expect to wait for a
better system just to get it going. As for the servlet, it would be
interesting.
> All I want to do is write code and manage HttpClient to a full release.
That won't change.
> Its all I have time for. Already this PMC chaos is taking more time
> than I want to spend on it.
It's transitory. Don't expect it to be normal business.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Jeffrey Dever wrote:
> Vote results? It unclear even when a vote is taking place and who the
> nominees are. I thought we just finished a round on the 19th with an
> agreement that these should be done in batches. Now Pier is up as a
> nominee again and after one vote from Sam (who suggested the batches in
> the first place) has already declined!
Agreed. It seems like a stupid thing to suggest, but a more formal
structure may work [I hate it when people try to setup rules in which
things will work].
ie)
Collection of nominations
Voting on nominations
Offering of position
Refusal or Acceptance
I think a while back the discussion existed [on Jakarta General] that
people should not be informed they've been nominated until successful so
as to avoid issues.
> Last week I was happy working on my project. Then I find out that
> voting rights on releases will be taken away unless I join the new
> expanded PMC. But the process appears to be in shambles.
Again, I think we need a little common-sense process:
Project votes on readiness for release.
Project requests permission for release via their PMC members, who get
such permission via a vote on the PMC list.
This has some issues, for example String Taglib [one of mine]. I'm not
sure anyone else but me really has any interest/investment in it, so I
could happily sit trying to get a release vote without anyone really
caring to +1.
> When the PMC decided to expand from 7 to up to the number of committers
> worth of members, nobody thought to spend 45 minutes creating a voting
> servelt to streamline the process? 98% of us are programmers and all we
> could come up with was completely chaotic +1/0/-1 on a mailing list?
The perils of an open/meritocratic community. We're all supposed to just
leap in and believe we have a right to go do something. There's rarely
anyone who is prepared to speak for the community.
<insert quote about herding cats and open source>
I imagine the problem is that +1/0/-1 has worked in the past, but no one
has considered the fact that it doesn't scope on an individual level.
> All I want to do is write code and manage HttpClient to a full release.
> Its all I have time for. Already this PMC chaos is taking more time
> than I want to spend on it.
Belonging to community seems to burn time :(
> You guys are freaking me out.
Common sense seems to usually prevail.
Hen
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Jeffrey Dever <js...@sympatico.ca>.
>
>
>>
>> All I want to do is write code and manage HttpClient to a full
>> release. Its all I have time for. Already this PMC chaos is taking
>> more time than I want to spend on it.
>>
>
> Cool - can you get rid of the logging dependence? I just started
> using HttpClient because I gave up on the JDK HttpConnection in
> disgust, and it's not quite drop-in if it requires logging....
Its open for discussion. Bring it up on the commons-httpclient-dev list.
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@optonline.net>.
On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 05:23 PM, Jeffrey Dever wrote:
> Vote results? It unclear even when a vote is taking place and who the
> nominees are. I thought we just finished a round on the 19th with an
> agreement that these should be done in batches. Now Pier is up as a
> nominee again and after one vote from Sam (who suggested the batches
> in the first place) has already declined!
> WTF?
Batches? we don't need no steenking batches.
Seriously - there seems to be quite a bit of angst over this. Since
the goal is having the PMC indistinguishable, for the most part, from
the committer base, why not do it by invitation? People who positively
respond are in... Wouldn't this achieve the goal faster?
>
> Last week I was happy working on my project. Then I find out that
> voting rights on releases will be taken away unless I join the new
> expanded PMC. But the process appears to be in shambles.
> When the PMC decided to expand from 7 to up to the number of
> committers worth of members, nobody thought to spend 45 minutes
> creating a voting servelt to streamline the process? 98% of us are
> programmers and all we could come up with was completely chaotic
> +1/0/-1 on a mailing list?
>
> All I want to do is write code and manage HttpClient to a full
> release. Its all I have time for. Already this PMC chaos is taking
> more time than I want to spend on it.
>
Cool - can you get rid of the logging dependence? I just started using
HttpClient because I gave up on the JDK HttpConnection in disgust, and
it's not quite drop-in if it requires logging....
;)
> You guys are freaking me out.
>
>
>
> Costin Manolache wrote:
>
>> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>>
>>
>>> one of the problems we have in the commons is the number of votes
>>> which
>>> spawn threads which go on for ever without any clear conclusion.
>>> that's
>>> why i think that announcing clearly when a vote is finished is a good
>>> thing.
>>>
>>
>> IMO all vote results should be at least posted to the pmc list.
>>
>> The PMC should be able to at least review the results.
>>
>> Things like adding new dependencies to a project, moving code,
>> releases, major changes need to be very visible to the entire
>> PMC, even if few members are involved in each project.
>>
>> ( dependencies are particulary important, if they are not under
>> apache-like
>> licence )
>>
>>
>>
>> Costin
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
>
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--
Geir Magnusson Jr 203-956-2604(w)
Adeptra, Inc. 203-247-1713(m)
geirm@adeptra.com
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Jeffrey Dever <js...@sympatico.ca>.
Vote results? It unclear even when a vote is taking place and who the
nominees are. I thought we just finished a round on the 19th with an
agreement that these should be done in batches. Now Pier is up as a
nominee again and after one vote from Sam (who suggested the batches in
the first place) has already declined!
WTF?
Last week I was happy working on my project. Then I find out that
voting rights on releases will be taken away unless I join the new
expanded PMC. But the process appears to be in shambles.
When the PMC decided to expand from 7 to up to the number of committers
worth of members, nobody thought to spend 45 minutes creating a voting
servelt to streamline the process? 98% of us are programmers and all we
could come up with was completely chaotic +1/0/-1 on a mailing list?
All I want to do is write code and manage HttpClient to a full release.
Its all I have time for. Already this PMC chaos is taking more time
than I want to spend on it.
You guys are freaking me out.
Costin Manolache wrote:
>robert burrell donkin wrote:
>
>
>
>>one of the problems we have in the commons is the number of votes which
>>spawn threads which go on for ever without any clear conclusion. that's
>>why i think that announcing clearly when a vote is finished is a good
>>thing.
>>
>>
>
>IMO all vote results should be at least posted to the pmc list.
>
>The PMC should be able to at least review the results.
>
>Things like adding new dependencies to a project, moving code,
>releases, major changes need to be very visible to the entire
>PMC, even if few members are involved in each project.
>
>( dependencies are particulary important, if they are not under apache-like
>licence )
>
>
>
>Costin
>
>
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>
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Costin Manolache <cm...@yahoo.com>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> one of the problems we have in the commons is the number of votes which
> spawn threads which go on for ever without any clear conclusion. that's
> why i think that announcing clearly when a vote is finished is a good
> thing.
IMO all vote results should be at least posted to the pmc list.
The PMC should be able to at least review the results.
Things like adding new dependencies to a project, moving code,
releases, major changes need to be very visible to the entire
PMC, even if few members are involved in each project.
( dependencies are particulary important, if they are not under apache-like
licence )
Costin
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by robert burrell donkin <ro...@blueyonder.co.uk>.
On Friday, February 21, 2003, at 09:13 AM, Henri Gomez wrote:
> robert burrell donkin wrote:
>> the following committers have passed the PMC nomination vote proposed by
>> sam ruby:
>> - Danny Angus
>> - Peter Carlson
>> - Morgan Delagrange
>> - Ceki Gülcü
>> - Dmitri Plotnikov
>> - Phillip Rhodes
>> - James Strachan
>> - Jason van Zyl
>> - Ted Husted
>> - Rod Waldhoff
>> i'm sending this to let you all know.
>> the role of jakarta PMC is changing but rather than give an opinion and
>> pretend some authority i don't have, take a look at this thread:
>
> What do you means by passed the PMC nomination ?
one of the problems we have in the commons is the number of votes which
spawn threads which go on for ever without any clear conclusion. that's
why i think that announcing clearly when a vote is finished is a good
thing.
this particular round of voting starts with sam: http://marc.theaimsgroup.
com/?l=jakarta-general&m=104518242028805&w=2
sam suggests that the vote is finished here: http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/
?l=jakarta-general&m=104569451208501&w=2
why forward the result to the relevant people?
in the last round some people elected were never even informed. i think
that the people should be informed:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=104568409524148&w=2
sam replies:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=jakarta-general&m=104568599627074&w=2
so that's why i forwarded the result to everyone concerned.
is this an experiment which shouldn't be repeated?
or does it just need refining?
- robert
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Re: [RESULT][PMC VOTE] PMC Nominations
Posted by Henri Gomez <hg...@apache.org>.
robert burrell donkin wrote:
> the following committers have passed the PMC nomination vote proposed by
> sam ruby:
>
> - Danny Angus
> - Peter Carlson
> - Morgan Delagrange
> - Ceki Gülcü
> - Dmitri Plotnikov
> - Phillip Rhodes
> - James Strachan
> - Jason van Zyl
> - Ted Husted
> - Rod Waldhoff
>
> i'm sending this to let you all know.
>
> the role of jakarta PMC is changing but rather than give an opinion and
> pretend some authority i don't have, take a look at this thread:
What do you means by passed the PMC nomination ?
I'm confused with the original mail where many commiters were
elected as Jakarta PMC members ?
On Sun, 02 Feb 2003, Rob Oxspring <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> > General
>
> Several people have been elected as new members of the
> Jakarta PMC, they are [1]
>
> Nicola Ken Barozzi
> Robert Burrel Donkin
> Stephen Colebourne
> Martin Cooper
> Henri Gomez
> John Keyes
> Larry Isaacs
> Otis Gospodnetic
> Thomas Mahler
> Remy Maucherat
> Glenn Nielsen
> Andrew C Oliver
> Rob Oxspring
> Martin Poeschl
> Scott Sanders
> David Sean Taylor
> Glen Stampoultzis
> Mladen Turk
> James Turner
> Henri Yandell
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