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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Isabel Drost-Fromm <is...@apache.org> on 2018/07/04 11:56:08 UTC
Looking for someone who can answer questions wrt. Open Source and Standardization
Hi,
I have been contacted by a friend who is working on a study about the topic
"Open Source and standardization" for the EU commission. He would like to
be put in touch with someone at the ASF, who can provide their perspective
wrt. to the following two questions:
* Input on how the ASF views their collaboration (in whatever format) with
standardization organisations.
* Input from ASF projects that sit between open source licenses and IPR
rules and governance frameworks of standardization organisations.
I'm happy to put you in touch, if you have a few cycles and would like to
share your perspective. If you are receiving this in your inbox, than
you've been on bcc: to the mail to dev@community.apache.org because I
believe you could have valuable input to share. Let me know if you have a
bit of time so I can get you in touch.
Isabel
Re: Looking for someone who can answer questions wrt. Open Source and
Standardization
Posted by Martin Desruisseaux <ma...@geomatys.com>.
Hello Isabel
I put the Apache geospatial mailing list in copy because I believe this
community has lot of experience in interactions between Open Source
software and standardization. For example the Apache Spatial Information
System (SIS) project is a lot about implementing standards developed
jointly by the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) and the International
Organization for Standardization (ISO). Apache SIS sits between the two
world; we contribute both to the development of some standards inside
OGC (in the limit of our capacity) and their implementation inside Apache.
One person that may be nice to get in touch is George Percivall. He is a
member of OGC staff (also a key person in organizing geospatial tracks
in Apache conferences) and editor of Open Geospatial APIs White Paper
[1]. Among other things, this white paper proposes a definition of "open
standard".
In my personal experience, one thing I would like to discuss is the
difference between "open source" and "open standard". The Open Source
Initiative and the Free Software Foundation Europe proposes definitions
[2],[3] that are close to open source definitions, but not identical. A
key difference is that "open standard" freedoms do not include the
freedom to modify the standard outside the standardization body. In my
experience, I found difficult to get this restriction accepted by some
open source communities (the example I have in mind is a project outside
Apache). The geospatial community can testify about the damages caused
by open source software modifying standards for their convenience,
resulting in data thousands of kilometres apart from their expected
locations because of inconsistent Coordinate Reference System
definitions. I would be interested in discussions about how to help the
use of "open standards" in "open source" projects with acceptance that
open standards are governed under rules different than the ones
specified by open source licenses.
Martin
[1] http://docs.opengeospatial.org/wp/16-019r4/16-019r4.html
[2] https://opensource.org/osr
[3] http://fsfe.org/activities/os/def.html
Le 04/07/2018 à 13:56, Isabel Drost-Fromm a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I have been contacted by a friend who is working on a study about the topic
> "Open Source and standardization" for the EU commission. He would like to
> be put in touch with someone at the ASF, who can provide their perspective
> wrt. to the following two questions:
>
> * Input on how the ASF views their collaboration (in whatever format) with
> standardization organisations.
> * Input from ASF projects that sit between open source licenses and IPR
> rules and governance frameworks of standardization organisations.
>
> I'm happy to put you in touch, if you have a few cycles and would like to
> share your perspective. If you are receiving this in your inbox, than
> you've been on bcc: to the mail to dev@community.apache.org because I
> believe you could have valuable input to share. Let me know if you have a
> bit of time so I can get you in touch.
>
>
> Isabel
>
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Re: Looking for someone who can answer questions wrt. Open Source and
Standardization
Posted by Martin Desruisseaux <ma...@geomatys.com>.
Hello Isabel
I put the Apache geospatial mailing list in copy because I believe this
community has lot of experience in interactions between Open Source
software and standardization. For example the Apache Spatial Information
System (SIS) project is a lot about implementing standards developed
jointly by the Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) and the International
Organization for Standardization (ISO). Apache SIS sits between the two
world; we contribute both to the development of some standards inside
OGC (in the limit of our capacity) and their implementation inside Apache.
One person that may be nice to get in touch is George Percivall. He is a
member of OGC staff (also a key person in organizing geospatial tracks
in Apache conferences) and editor of Open Geospatial APIs White Paper
[1]. Among other things, this white paper proposes a definition of "open
standard".
In my personal experience, one thing I would like to discuss is the
difference between "open source" and "open standard". The Open Source
Initiative and the Free Software Foundation Europe proposes definitions
[2],[3] that are close to open source definitions, but not identical. A
key difference is that "open standard" freedoms do not include the
freedom to modify the standard outside the standardization body. In my
experience, I found difficult to get this restriction accepted by some
open source communities (the example I have in mind is a project outside
Apache). The geospatial community can testify about the damages caused
by open source software modifying standards for their convenience,
resulting in data thousands of kilometres apart from their expected
locations because of inconsistent Coordinate Reference System
definitions. I would be interested in discussions about how to help the
use of "open standards" in "open source" projects with acceptance that
open standards are governed under rules different than the ones
specified by open source licenses.
Martin
[1] http://docs.opengeospatial.org/wp/16-019r4/16-019r4.html
[2] https://opensource.org/osr
[3] http://fsfe.org/activities/os/def.html
Le 04/07/2018 à 13:56, Isabel Drost-Fromm a écrit :
> Hi,
>
> I have been contacted by a friend who is working on a study about the topic
> "Open Source and standardization" for the EU commission. He would like to
> be put in touch with someone at the ASF, who can provide their perspective
> wrt. to the following two questions:
>
> * Input on how the ASF views their collaboration (in whatever format) with
> standardization organisations.
> * Input from ASF projects that sit between open source licenses and IPR
> rules and governance frameworks of standardization organisations.
>
> I'm happy to put you in touch, if you have a few cycles and would like to
> share your perspective. If you are receiving this in your inbox, than
> you've been on bcc: to the mail to dev@community.apache.org because I
> believe you could have valuable input to share. Let me know if you have a
> bit of time so I can get you in touch.
>
>
> Isabel
>
Re: Looking for someone who can answer questions wrt. Open Source and Standardization
Posted by "Kevin A. McGrail" <km...@apache.org>.
Off the cuff, this sounds like Shane's of expertise.
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018, 07:56 Isabel Drost-Fromm <is...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I have been contacted by a friend who is working on a study about the topic
> "Open Source and standardization" for the EU commission. He would like to
> be put in touch with someone at the ASF, who can provide their perspective
> wrt. to the following two questions:
>
> * Input on how the ASF views their collaboration (in whatever format) with
> standardization organisations.
> * Input from ASF projects that sit between open source licenses and IPR
> rules and governance frameworks of standardization organisations.
>
> I'm happy to put you in touch, if you have a few cycles and would like to
> share your perspective. If you are receiving this in your inbox, than
> you've been on bcc: to the mail to dev@community.apache.org because I
> believe you could have valuable input to share. Let me know if you have a
> bit of time so I can get you in touch.
>
>
> Isabel
>
Re: Looking for someone who can answer questions wrt. Open Source and
Standardization
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
I'd be happy to. I've done similar things for both companies and some
gov't orgs.
> On Jul 4, 2018, at 7:56 AM, Isabel Drost-Fromm <is...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have been contacted by a friend who is working on a study about the topic
> "Open Source and standardization" for the EU commission. He would like to
> be put in touch with someone at the ASF, who can provide their perspective
> wrt. to the following two questions:
>
> * Input on how the ASF views their collaboration (in whatever format) with
> standardization organisations.
> * Input from ASF projects that sit between open source licenses and IPR
> rules and governance frameworks of standardization organisations.
>
> I'm happy to put you in touch, if you have a few cycles and would like to
> share your perspective. If you are receiving this in your inbox, than
> you've been on bcc: to the mail to dev@community.apache.org because I
> believe you could have valuable input to share. Let me know if you have a
> bit of time so I can get you in touch.
>
>
> Isabel
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Re: Looking for someone who can answer questions wrt. Open Source and
Standardization
Posted by Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>.
Isabel Drost-Fromm wrote on 7/4/18 7:56 AM:
> Hi,
>
> I have been contacted by a friend who is working on a study about the topic
> "Open Source and standardization" for the EU commission. He would like to
> be put in touch with someone at the ASF, who can provide their perspective
> wrt. to the following two questions:
>
> * Input on how the ASF views their collaboration (in whatever format) with
> standardization organisations.
> * Input from ASF projects that sit between open source licenses and IPR
> rules and governance frameworks of standardization organisations.
As noted offlist I can provide perspective on the ASF's historical
approach as well as some practical advice, at the foundation level.
There are definitely a few EU-based members who have done work with
standards organizations that would have a better perspective, especially
since the relationship with governments and standards bodies is
different there (much closer in some ways) than the US. Some of the
science-based or geo projects that incubated in the past 5 years would
also have good, and more specific comments if you can find the right people.
Briefly, the ASF has had formal relationships with the W3C (currently)
and JCP in the past. Each of these two cases we assigned an ASF member
as a VP to serve as the formal representative, and in each case there
were no fees due to our non-profit status. The officer is primarily a
coordination point, as a way for any Apache committer to work with the
officer to be able to give input to various standards committees in that
organization.
Note that the ASF as a foundation does not pursue these relationships:
we only sign up for them when some of our projects express a clear need
to be able to participate organizationally, and when some projects have
volunteers who step up to join committees and the like. It's a way that
the ASF supports it's projects; not a way to influence standards just
for standards sake (so to speak).
> I'm happy to put you in touch, if you have a few cycles and would like to
> share your perspective. If you are receiving this in your inbox, than
> you've been on bcc: to the mail to dev@community.apache.org because I
> believe you could have valuable input to share. Let me know if you have a
> bit of time so I can get you in touch.
>
>
> Isabel
--
- Shane
Director & Member
The Apache Software Foundation
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