Re: CSS layouts [auf Viren geprueft]

[Jonathan O'Connor <Jo...@xcom.de>]

Summary: Pages don't have to look the exact same in all browsers.

In Zeldman's book "Designing with Web Standards", he says that your web 
site does not have to look exactly the same in all browsers. Yes, you can 
make it look really nice in the new browsers, but its OK if the pages 
don't look funky but still work in older browsers.
What should never happen, (which seems to happen quite alot to me now that 
I've switched to Firefox as my main browser) is sites detecting that I'm 
not using Browser X, and stopping me from using the site. I don't care if 
the site looks like something designed by a programmer, instead of a 
graphic designer. I just want to be able to use these sites.
Ciao,
Jonathan O'Connor
XCOM Dublin



Kris Rasmussen <kr...@yahoo.com> 
31/01/2005 06:56
Please respond to
"Tapestry users" <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>


To
Tapestry users <ta...@jakarta.apache.org>
cc

Subject
Re: CSS layouts [auf Viren geprueft]






Here is why I think tapestry needs a more flexible templating system...
 
I too support css and actually just spent an entire weak developing a very 
nice web application template using css/javascript. It support fancy 
tabbing, drag and drop reordering, font-size switching and more. However, 
I must say that it took a whole lot of extra time trying to get it to work 
in ie 6 and firefox not to mention what it would take to get it working in 
the rest of the browsers. Floating is miserably buggy, but without it its 
pretty much impossible to create elastic designs with multiple columns. 
The amount of css hacks I had to use to get everything to line up in both 
browsers is questionable as well. Not to mention that complicated css 
layouts can bring a browser to its knees while rendering them.
 
It was great having the flexibility of css to easilly change images, 
create rollover effects, and nudge things around. However, when I am 
finally ready to deploy my app I will probably have to convert the design 
to tables so that I can be sure it looks good in all browsers. 
So I fully support css, but I don't think it has quite a ways to go before 
we can depend on it.
 
Kris

Konstantin Iignatyev <kg...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Many thanks for those links. But my line of reasoning is like this:

- I agree wholeheartedly that CSS should be THE correct way for doing 
page formatting;
- But I have never seen a site that is done with CSS layouts and do 
provides liquid and scalable layout, that works consistently in IE, 
Mozilla and Opera;

Because I want my web-application working consistently in IE, Mozilla 
and Opera I stick with Tables based layout and basic CSS.

Do you have any links to sites, which are built with CSS and do provide 
liquid and scalable layout that works consistently in IE, Mozilla and 
Opera?

If I could at least see that it is possible I would consider CSS for 
doing layouts?

Luc Peerdeman wrote:

> Konstantin Iignatyev wrote:
>
>> Of course I use CSS (could not claim that I am a pro), but even 
>> simple thing like links underscoring sometimes works differently in 
>> IE and Firefox/Mozilla. zengarden is supposed to be a showcase but it 
>> fails because of reasons I have mentioned.
>>
>> No, I do not use CSS for layout, not I plan to in the nearest future.
>
>
> I can highly recommend the following books:
>
> - Designing with web standards, by Jeffrey Zeldman (very fun to read 
> and explains very well why CSS nowadays is _the_ way to handle layout)
>
> - Web standards solutions, by Dan Cederholm (many nice examples of how 
> to use web standards to make perfectly layed out pages)
>
> And of course the books by Eric Meyer on CSS (two books with project 
> examples and two reference books).
>
> After reading those I am sure you will have to adjust your ideas about 
> CSS. I have to admit that until half a year ago I also did not realize 
> the possibilities of CSS combined with other technologies (like DOM in 
> the browser etc). Also did not know that for almost all browser 
> incompatibilities good solutions have been thought out, so there is no 
> need anymore for different versions of pages for browser sniffing for 
> layout reasons.
>
> One of the advantages I have experienced on my current project is the 
> fact that pages get much more compact when styled in a smart way. I 
> got some HTML templates for from a design firm that were styled in the 
> old fashioned way: nested tables, inline images, etc etc. I was able 
> to move all the images and styling to the CSS, reducing the size of 
> the HTML that we now send to the client by (rough estimate) 80 %. And 
> the layout looks exactly like the customer asked, and can be changed 
> much more easily.
>
> For us as developers an added advantage is that Tapestry templates now 
> look much cleaner with lots of the layout things moved to CSS classes.
>
> Btw a lot of good information on these subjects can also be found on 
> the websites of said authors and on for example 
> http://www.alistapart.com/
>
> Cheers, Luc.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>


-- 
Thanks,

Konstantin Ignatyev

http://www.kgionline.com





PS: If this is a typical day on planet earth, humans will add fifteen 
million tons of carbon to the atmosphere, destroy 115 square miles of 
tropical rainforest, create seventy-two miles of desert, eliminate between 
forty to one hundred species, erode seventy-one million tons of topsoil, 
add 2.700 tons of CFCs to the stratosphere, and increase their population 
by 263.000

Bowers, C.A. The Culture of Denial: 
Why the Environmental Movement Needs a Strategy for Reforming Universities 
and Public Schools. 
New York: State University of New York Press, 1997: (4) (5) (p.206)


---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: tapestry-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: tapestry-user-help@jakarta.apache.org



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 



*** Aktuelle Veranstaltungen der XCOM AG ***

XCOM laedt ein zur IBM Workplace Roadshow in Frankfurt (16.02.2005), Duesseldorf (23.02.2005) und Berlin (02.03.2005)
Anmeldung und Information unter http://lotus.xcom.de/events

Workshop-Reihe "Mobilisierung von Lotus Notes Applikationen"  in Frankfurt (17.02.2005), Duesseldorf (24.02.2005) und Berlin (05.03.2005) 
Anmeldung und Information unter http://lotus.xcom.de/events


*** XCOM AG Legal Disclaimer ***

Diese E-Mail einschliesslich ihrer Anhaenge ist vertraulich und ist allein für den Gebrauch durch den vorgesehenen Empfaenger bestimmt. Dritten ist das Lesen, Verteilen oder Weiterleiten dieser E-Mail untersagt. Wir bitten, eine fehlgeleitete E-Mail unverzueglich vollstaendig zu loeschen und uns eine Nachricht zukommen zu lassen.

This email may contain material that is confidential and for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.