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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by Glen Mazza <gm...@apache.org> on 2006/11/01 19:00:57 UTC

Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Hello,

Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat 
5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?

For the installation of a commerical web application that calls for 
installation of Tomcat 5.0.28, I'm inclined to just go ahead and use the 
5.5 series of servlet containers.  Customer support is concerned that 
Tomcat 5.5 will not work (or at least has not been tested on the new 
version).  My thinking is that:

1.) Both containers implement the same specifications, so their 
development team would *really* have to be coding obscurely, bending 
over backwards to try to trip up the 5.5 servlet container, to be able 
to manage to build a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.

2.) Further, it would require an extremely talented development team to 
be able to create a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20, but 
paradoxically, if they had that level of talent they would *not* build 
an application anyway that will work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.

Is my logic here correct or faulty?  To what degree is "This webapp will 
work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20" an old wives' tale?

Thanks,
Glen


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Re: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by Pid <p...@pidster.com>.
have you actually looked to see what the code says at line 211 in Home.java?

> octane.Home.doGet(Home.java:211)

is that part of your app?

the exception posted earlier in the thread indicates that an attribute
isn't serializable and the cause is at line 211, I think... ?


i've got a feeling that TC 5.5 is more strict about serialization - but
i could be mixing that up with something else, so don't take it as
gospel.  you might wish to investigate all the same, if the contents of
line 211 don't identify the cause.




Rainer Jung wrote:
> Yes, binary compatibility should be OK. But most webapps have JSPs and
> you are soon in the area of source code compatibility:
> 
> http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/compatibility.jsp
> 
> I only wanted to indicate, that it might be better to migrate in two
> steps, to keep the two possible reasons for trouble separate, especially
> when arguing with your webapp supplier.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Rainer
> 
> Glen Mazza schrieb:
>> Yes, thanks for the reminder.  That's also something I need to keep in
>> mind, as my installation guide says to load JRE 1.4.2, and I'm using
>> 5.0.  But again, I'd like to say that 1.4.2-compiled class files
>> *should* be able to run on a 5.0 JRE.  (I know if you recompile the
>> source files--which I don't have access to anyway--and have
>> 1.4.2-specific coding such as variables called "enum", that would create
>> problems.)  But I suspect this would be less of a given than having a
>> 5.0.28-able application be able to run on 5.5.20.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Glen
>>
>> Rainer Jung wrote:
>>
>>> Apart from the changes in suggested deployment strategies and ressourec
>>> definitions there's something to be careful:
>>>
>>> Upgrading to TC 5.5 and upgrading from Java 1.4 to Java 5 are two
>>> different things. As long as you do only the first, chances are good,
>>> that you get the webapp to run without code changes.
>>>
>>> An upgrade to Java 5 should be tried only after you get the webapp to
>>> run under TC 5.5 with Java 1.4.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Rainer
>>>
>>> Glen Mazza schrieb:
>>>  
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat
>>>> 5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?
>>>>
>>>> For the installation of a commerical web application that calls for
>>>> installation of Tomcat 5.0.28, I'm inclined to just go ahead and use the
>>>> 5.5 series of servlet containers.  Customer support is concerned that
>>>> Tomcat 5.5 will not work (or at least has not been tested on the new
>>>> version).  My thinking is that:
>>>>
>>>> 1.) Both containers implement the same specifications, so their
>>>> development team would *really* have to be coding obscurely, bending
>>>> over backwards to try to trip up the 5.5 servlet container, to be able
>>>> to manage to build a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
>>>>
>>>> 2.) Further, it would require an extremely talented development team to
>>>> be able to create a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20, but
>>>> paradoxically, if they had that level of talent they would *not* build
>>>> an application anyway that will work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
>>>>
>>>> Is my logic here correct or faulty?  To what degree is "This webapp will
>>>> work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20" an old wives' tale?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Glen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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>>>>   
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>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
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> 
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> 
> 


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Re: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by Rainer Jung <ra...@kippdata.de>.
Yes, binary compatibility should be OK. But most webapps have JSPs and
you are soon in the area of source code compatibility:

http://java.sun.com/javase/technologies/compatibility.jsp

I only wanted to indicate, that it might be better to migrate in two
steps, to keep the two possible reasons for trouble separate, especially
when arguing with your webapp supplier.

Regards,

Rainer

Glen Mazza schrieb:
> Yes, thanks for the reminder.  That's also something I need to keep in
> mind, as my installation guide says to load JRE 1.4.2, and I'm using
> 5.0.  But again, I'd like to say that 1.4.2-compiled class files
> *should* be able to run on a 5.0 JRE.  (I know if you recompile the
> source files--which I don't have access to anyway--and have
> 1.4.2-specific coding such as variables called "enum", that would create
> problems.)  But I suspect this would be less of a given than having a
> 5.0.28-able application be able to run on 5.5.20.
> 
> Thanks,
> Glen
> 
> Rainer Jung wrote:
> 
>> Apart from the changes in suggested deployment strategies and ressourec
>> definitions there's something to be careful:
>>
>> Upgrading to TC 5.5 and upgrading from Java 1.4 to Java 5 are two
>> different things. As long as you do only the first, chances are good,
>> that you get the webapp to run without code changes.
>>
>> An upgrade to Java 5 should be tried only after you get the webapp to
>> run under TC 5.5 with Java 1.4.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Rainer
>>
>> Glen Mazza schrieb:
>>  
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat
>>> 5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?
>>>
>>> For the installation of a commerical web application that calls for
>>> installation of Tomcat 5.0.28, I'm inclined to just go ahead and use the
>>> 5.5 series of servlet containers.  Customer support is concerned that
>>> Tomcat 5.5 will not work (or at least has not been tested on the new
>>> version).  My thinking is that:
>>>
>>> 1.) Both containers implement the same specifications, so their
>>> development team would *really* have to be coding obscurely, bending
>>> over backwards to try to trip up the 5.5 servlet container, to be able
>>> to manage to build a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
>>>
>>> 2.) Further, it would require an extremely talented development team to
>>> be able to create a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20, but
>>> paradoxically, if they had that level of talent they would *not* build
>>> an application anyway that will work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
>>>
>>> Is my logic here correct or faulty?  To what degree is "This webapp will
>>> work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20" an old wives' tale?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Glen
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>>>   
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>>  
>>
> 
> 
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Re: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by Glen Mazza <gm...@apache.org>.
Yes, thanks for the reminder.  That's also something I need to keep in 
mind, as my installation guide says to load JRE 1.4.2, and I'm using 
5.0.  But again, I'd like to say that 1.4.2-compiled class files 
*should* be able to run on a 5.0 JRE.  (I know if you recompile the 
source files--which I don't have access to anyway--and have 
1.4.2-specific coding such as variables called "enum", that would create 
problems.)  But I suspect this would be less of a given than having a 
5.0.28-able application be able to run on 5.5.20.

Thanks,
Glen

Rainer Jung wrote:

>Apart from the changes in suggested deployment strategies and ressourec
>definitions there's something to be careful:
>
>Upgrading to TC 5.5 and upgrading from Java 1.4 to Java 5 are two
>different things. As long as you do only the first, chances are good,
>that you get the webapp to run without code changes.
>
>An upgrade to Java 5 should be tried only after you get the webapp to
>run under TC 5.5 with Java 1.4.
>
>Regards,
>
>Rainer
>
>Glen Mazza schrieb:
>  
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat
>>5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?
>>
>>For the installation of a commerical web application that calls for
>>installation of Tomcat 5.0.28, I'm inclined to just go ahead and use the
>>5.5 series of servlet containers.  Customer support is concerned that
>>Tomcat 5.5 will not work (or at least has not been tested on the new
>>version).  My thinking is that:
>>
>>1.) Both containers implement the same specifications, so their
>>development team would *really* have to be coding obscurely, bending
>>over backwards to try to trip up the 5.5 servlet container, to be able
>>to manage to build a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
>>
>>2.) Further, it would require an extremely talented development team to
>>be able to create a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20, but
>>paradoxically, if they had that level of talent they would *not* build
>>an application anyway that will work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
>>
>>Is my logic here correct or faulty?  To what degree is "This webapp will
>>work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20" an old wives' tale?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Glen
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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>>    
>>
>
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>
>
>  
>


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Re: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by Rainer Jung <ra...@kippdata.de>.
Apart from the changes in suggested deployment strategies and ressourec
definitions there's something to be careful:

Upgrading to TC 5.5 and upgrading from Java 1.4 to Java 5 are two
different things. As long as you do only the first, chances are good,
that you get the webapp to run without code changes.

An upgrade to Java 5 should be tried only after you get the webapp to
run under TC 5.5 with Java 1.4.

Regards,

Rainer

Glen Mazza schrieb:
> Hello,
> 
> Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat
> 5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?
> 
> For the installation of a commerical web application that calls for
> installation of Tomcat 5.0.28, I'm inclined to just go ahead and use the
> 5.5 series of servlet containers.  Customer support is concerned that
> Tomcat 5.5 will not work (or at least has not been tested on the new
> version).  My thinking is that:
> 
> 1.) Both containers implement the same specifications, so their
> development team would *really* have to be coding obscurely, bending
> over backwards to try to trip up the 5.5 servlet container, to be able
> to manage to build a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
> 
> 2.) Further, it would require an extremely talented development team to
> be able to create a webapp that will run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20, but
> paradoxically, if they had that level of talent they would *not* build
> an application anyway that will work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20.
> 
> Is my logic here correct or faulty?  To what degree is "This webapp will
> work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20" an old wives' tale?
> 
> Thanks,
> Glen
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To start a new topic, e-mail: users@tomcat.apache.org
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
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Re: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
Glen,

> Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat 
> 5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?
> 
> For the installation of a commerical web application that calls for 
> installation of Tomcat 5.0.28 [...]

[snip]

> To what degree is "This webapp will work on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.20" an
> old wives' tale?

I'm guessing that this is good-old CYA talking, here. The authors don't
want you to install it on an untested version of the server platform and
then come crying to them if something goes wrong.

I can't speak to the "success ratio" of a blind upgrade from 5.0.x to
5.5.x, but you could always give it a try. Just make sure that you test
it yourself before you let any of your real users get their hands on it.
A good dose of paranoia is always a good thing in this case.

-chris


RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Michael Hencin [mailto:michael.hencin@edm-concepts.com] 
> Subject: RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?
> 
> When I tested TC 5.5, I also used the recommended 1.4 JRE. 

I presume you meant the 1.5 JRE in the above statement.

> I will proceed with just an TC 5.5 upgrade using the previous 
> JAVA install I used with 5.0.28.

Using the 1.4 JRE requires installing the Compatibility Package, which
is no big deal.  However, when you do upgrade to the 1.5 JRE, make sure
to remove the package, which is a step many forget.

 - Chuck


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RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by Michael Hencin <mi...@edm-concepts.com>.
Thanks I will pass this along to our programmers. I am in a special position
as we are the webapp supplier and specify as our requirements that the end
clients use Tomcat. 

I therefore look at tomcat in a different light, as a tool. I am always
concerned with what it the most elegant and simplest method to have our web
app work with TC. As our target clients typically do not have TC running at
all, there expertise is novice. I am learning TC more and more and
appreciate the very clear and astute feedback I find here. Thanks.

I am not a programmer and am tasked with writing out installation guide and
handling TC related deployment issues. So this thread in particular is of
concern to me and how I specify our installation guide and requirements. 

When I tested TC 5.5, I also used the recommended 1.4 JRE. And did the two
steps at once. Probably now that would be not the method I should choose for
an upgrade. As I know that our clients already have the 1.4 JDK installed. I
will proceed with just an TC 5.5 upgrade using the previous JAVA install I
used with 5.0.28.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Caldarale, Charles R [mailto:Chuck.Caldarale@unisys.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 1:37 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

> From: Michael Hencin [mailto:michael.hencin@edm-concepts.com] 
> Subject: RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?
> 
> This setup is just as we do with 5.0, but when I access our 
> app, I get this error.
> 
> org.apache.jasper.JasperException: setAttribute: 
> Non-serializable attribute

One of the things 5.5 does better than 5.0 is catch errors earlier.  In
this case, it looks like the app is trying to store a non-serializable
attribute into a Session, which expects everything to be serializable.
By default, Tomcat persists sessions across restarts, so serialization
is required.  You can disable this persistence (look in
conf/context.xml); that may not have an effect on this particular
situation, since the problem is being detected during compilation of a
JSP.

 - Chuck


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RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Michael Hencin [mailto:michael.hencin@edm-concepts.com] 
> Subject: RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?
> 
> This setup is just as we do with 5.0, but when I access our 
> app, I get this error.
> 
> org.apache.jasper.JasperException: setAttribute: 
> Non-serializable attribute

One of the things 5.5 does better than 5.0 is catch errors earlier.  In
this case, it looks like the app is trying to store a non-serializable
attribute into a Session, which expects everything to be serializable.
By default, Tomcat persists sessions across restarts, so serialization
is required.  You can disable this persistence (look in
conf/context.xml); that may not have an effect on this particular
situation, since the problem is being detected during compilation of a
JSP.

 - Chuck


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RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by Michael Hencin <mi...@edm-concepts.com>.
I am currently testing just such an upgrade. 

We have a current webapp that runs in 5.0.28. The war file has a context.xml
in the META-INF that has a JNDI datasource entry. 

If I place the myapp.war file into TC 5.5, it expands and places our context
file in the conf/Catalina/localhost dir. I use JNDI datasource in the
context.xml, and made sure that databse excises and is running.

This setup is just as we do with 5.0, but when I access our app, I get this
error. I have not done any research on this error yet, but since this topic
just came up, and there was mention of "customer support" which I am very
concerned about, in regards to helping our clients use Tomcat I though it
was worth mentioning. In as much as a blind upgrade, from a client's
perspective.

type Exception report

message

description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it
from fulfilling this request.

exception

org.apache.jasper.JasperException: setAttribute: Non-serializable attribute
	
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.handleJspException(JspServletWra
pper.java:512)
	
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:3
95)
	
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
	org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
	octane.Home.doGet(Home.java:211)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:689)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)

root cause

java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: setAttribute: Non-serializable attribute
	
org.apache.catalina.session.StandardSession.setAttribute(StandardSession.jav
a:1255)
	
org.apache.catalina.session.StandardSession.setAttribute(StandardSession.jav
a:1233)
	
org.apache.catalina.session.StandardSessionFacade.setAttribute(StandardSessi
onFacade.java:129)
	
org.apache.jasper.runtime.PageContextImpl.doSetAttribute(PageContextImpl.jav
a:329)
	
org.apache.jasper.runtime.PageContextImpl.setAttribute(PageContextImpl.java:
308)
	org.apache.jsp.Login_jsp._jspService(Login_jsp.java:47)
	org.apache.jasper.runtime.HttpJspBase.service(HttpJspBase.java:97)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
	
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServletWrapper.service(JspServletWrapper.java:3
34)
	
org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.serviceJspFile(JspServlet.java:314)
	org.apache.jasper.servlet.JspServlet.service(JspServlet.java:264)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)
	octane.Home.doGet(Home.java:211)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:689)
	javax.servlet.http.HttpServlet.service(HttpServlet.java:802)

-----Original Message-----
From: Caldarale, Charles R [mailto:Chuck.Caldarale@unisys.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 01, 2006 12:21 PM
To: Tomcat Users List
Subject: RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

> From: Glen Mazza [mailto:gmazza@apache.org] 
> Subject: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?
> 
> Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat 
> 5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?

The probability of it not running is near zero, with two caveats:

1) If the webapp utilizes internal Tomcat/Catalina classes, these may
have changed.  Highly unlikely in anything other than
manager/admin/monitoring applications.

2) Resource configuration has changed between 5.0 and 5.5, so
container-specific files like context.xml and server.xml need some
translation between levels.  The web.xml of the app should not need any
updates.

 - Chuck


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RE: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?

Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: Glen Mazza [mailto:gmazza@apache.org] 
> Subject: Webapps that run on 5.0.28 but not 5.5.x?
> 
> Question:  How common is it for a webapp to be able to run on Tomcat 
> 5.0.28 but *not* 5.5.20?

The probability of it not running is near zero, with two caveats:

1) If the webapp utilizes internal Tomcat/Catalina classes, these may
have changed.  Highly unlikely in anything other than
manager/admin/monitoring applications.

2) Resource configuration has changed between 5.0 and 5.5, so
container-specific files like context.xml and server.xml need some
translation between levels.  The web.xml of the app should not need any
updates.

 - Chuck


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