Re: OpenHub framework - Apache Camel, but improved ...

[Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com>]

Hi Petr

The ASF Board and Camel PMC have been asked to look at 3rd party
projects that may violate ASF policy and marks.

Your project with home page at
http://www.openhub.cz/

And on github at
https://github.com/OpenWiseSolutions/openhub-framework

Is doing this with the word "for enterprise" as it implies that Apache
Camel is NOT for enterprise, which it is very much is.

So can you look at this again and come up with a different tagline

For example something like these

OpenHub an integration platform powered by Apache Camel
OpenHub a ready to use integration platform for enterprises, powered
by Apache Camel
OpenHub Framework, an integration platform built with Apache Camel






On Tue, Dec 26, 2017 at 12:45 PM Juza Petr <pe...@openwise.cz> wrote:
>
> Hello Claus,
> please I would like to get feedback from you - we want to change our slogan to "Apache Camel extended for enterprise”. Is it ok for you?
>
> Thank you,
> PETR
>
> PS: Merry christmas and happy new year !!!
>
> > On 2 Dec 2017, at 19:03, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Petr
> >
> > Yes this is very good. Thanks for reacting on our concerns. Lets
> > revisit this in January 2018 when you have had time to come up with
> > some changes to the OpenHub website.
> >
> > You and the OpenHub team are surely welcome to ask us at the Camel
> > community for feedback on the different slogan and other changes that
> > would be needed on your website. If so then just post here again and
> > we can take a look and comment.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:32 PM, Juza Petr <pe...@openwise.cz> wrote:
> >> Dears,
> >> thank you for your feedback and I’m sorry for late respond.
> >>
> >> Firstly I would like to explain some following points:
> >> - We released the first public version after several years of internal use. We started working with Camel at 2009 (probably version 2.12) and we sent you several fixes (Camel was much more buggy in the past than nowadays). But honesty I have to say it’s hard to meet project dates with lot of work with pushing fixes/new things back to the community and be able to discuss it. Often you have to make some workaround or make it yourself. It’s also one of the reason why we have been solving some things with ourselves …
> >>
> >> - We added Spring Boot (and other libraries) mainly because we like them very much, we prefer microservice architecture and Spring Boot is defacto standard in this container approach. That’s why we don’t use Camel alone. (note: I’m not fan of JBoss Fuse …)
> >>
> >> - Apache Camel is the best one - even if I have been always prefering Spring libraries (generally saying), I must say that I prefer Camel to Spring Integration and other possibilities. Your great job.
> >>
> >> - Why we decided to use “Apache Camel, but improved”? We wanted to say that it’s Camel (there is no another one) but we added some extensions/addons. We don’t want to explain what is integration framework, our target audience are people from the community, integration developers and we wanted to use few words and say everything - it’s Camel (everybody knows it) but improved (it’s still Camel but we added our implementations for using by others).
> >>
> >>
> >> To your main points:
> >> 1/ if it’s really problem then we will try to find different slogan. Please give us some time, for example to the end of this year.
> >> 2/ we don’t know about that - I added it immediatelly to our wiki pages (homepage and contribution pages) and also I will give it to our landing page (together with our first point).
> >>
> >> @Claus, please, are you ok with that?
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >> PETR
> >>
> >>> On 28 Nov 2017, at 16:27, Claus Ibsen <cl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi Juza
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for announcing your project to the Apache Camel community.
> >>>
> >>> I do hope your team will get chances to participate in the Apache
> >>> Camel community as well, and based on your experience, be able to
> >>> contribute here as well, whether its bug fixes, new components,
> >>> improvements to documentation, etc.
> >>>
> >>> We are a very open and welcoming community, and have seen many people
> >>> come and go over the last decade that Apache Camel has been around.
> >>>
> >>> I am glad to see new projects come and reuse parts of Apache Camel for
> >>> whatever is being built and offered. For example my own employer does
> >>> that in the JBoss Fuse product.
> >>>
> >>> However with my ASF hat on, then I am agreeing with Bilgin, that I see
> >>> a concern with how you present your project on your website
> >>> http://www.openhub.cz/
> >>>
> >>> The first text that you will see is
> >>>
> >>>          Apache Camel, but improved
> >>>
> >>> As I see it, there are 2 problems:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 1)
> >>> As Bilgin says, saying Apache Camel but improved, is misleading the
> >>> users, as its NOT Apache Camel. There is only ONE Apache Camel.
> >>>
> >>> I would like to hear your thoughts on #1 and hear what we can do done
> >>> to correct this.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2)
> >>> When you mention any of the ASF projects, on your website or
> >>> elsewhere, you must do this according to ASF trademark policy, in
> >>> regards to ASF marks. You can read more about this here:
> >>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
> >>>
> >>> For example Saviortech provides in the bottom of their website an
> >>> attribution to ASF about using marks of the Apache projects that
> >>> Saviortech uses on their website: http://www.savoirtech.com/camel
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I would like to hear your thoughts especially on #1 and hear what we
> >>> can do done to correct this.
> >>> For #2 then I would suggest to follow the example from Saviortech.
> >>> However take a look at that link:
> >>> https://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Bilgin Ibryam <bi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hello OpenHub,
> >>>>
> >>>> It is great to see another product based on Apache Camel. Seems like an
> >>>> interesting stack with Camel, and hope you become even more successful, and
> >>>> contribute back to Apache Camel to make it a better as well.
> >>>>
> >>>> I cannot resist express my personal opinion about one thing I dislike about
> >>>> OpenHub - its tag line: “Apache Camel, but improved”
> >>>> Looking at your architecture diagram, it seems it is another packaging of
> >>>> Apache Camel with modern tools around it, which is great. That is a very
> >>>> similar model to Talend ESB, JBoss Fuse, JBoss Switchyard, etc. None of
> >>>> these projects are “Better Camel”, as Camel is a pure library that can be
> >>>> embedded in all kind of stacks, and aforementioned projects are packaging
> >>>> of Camel with other projects.
> >>>>
> >>>> So saying “Better Camel” is misleading as it implies OpenHub is an
> >>>> equivalent of Camel, where in essence it is Camel with addons.
> >>>> Don’t take this personally, I have been comparing Camel (to Spring Boot
> >>>> which is actually something similar to Apache Camel), blogging, defending
> >>>> Camel often and for over a decade there has not come another framework that
> >>>> is in the same category as Camel but better. OpenHub is not an exception
> >>>> here either.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hope you see my feedback as a constrictive one and it can help you make
> >>>> OpenHub better.
> >>>> Good luck and looking forward to see PRs to Camel and make it better ;)
> >>>>
> >>>> Bilgin
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 7:24 PM, Juza Petr <pe...@openwise.cz> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Dear community,
> >>>>> we would like to introduce to you our OpenHub framework - it’s still
> >>>>> Apache Camel but with additional functions and with full application stack
> >>>>> based on Spring Boot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Main OpenHub extensions (https://openhubframework.atlassian.net/wiki/x/QIM
> >>>>> ):
> >>>>> asynchronous messaging model
> >>>>> parent-child concept
> >>>>> obsolete messages
> >>>>> guaranteed message processing order
> >>>>> confirmation to callee system
> >>>>> alerts and monitoring
> >>>>> cluster support
> >>>>> proven full application stack based on Spring libraries
> >>>>> own admin console GUI
> >>>>>
> >>>>> URL: www.openhubframework.org <http://www.openhubframework.org/>
> >>>>> GitHub: https://github.com/OpenWiseSolutions/openhub-framework <
> >>>>> https://github.com/OpenWiseSolutions/openhub-framework>
> >>>>> Doc: https://openhubframework.atlassian.net <https://openhubframework.
> >>>>> atlassian.net/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Articles on JavaCodeGeeks:
> >>>>>       Introducing OpenHub framework - https://www.javacodegeeks.com/
> >>>>> 2017/10/introducing-openhub-framework.html <https://www.javacodegeeks.
> >>>>> com/2017/10/introducing-openhub-framework.html>
> >>>>>       Asynchronous communication made by OpenHub framework -
> >>>>> https://www.javacodegeeks.com/2017/10/asynchronous-
> >>>>> communication-made-openhub-framework.html <https://www.javacodegeeks.
> >>>>> com/2017/10/asynchronous-communication-made-openhub-framework.html>
> >>>>>       Next Interesting Features - https://www.javacodegeeks.com/
> >>>>> 2017/11/openhub-framework-next-interesting-features.html <
> >>>>> https://www.javacodegeeks.com/2017/11/openhub-framework-
> >>>>> next-interesting-features.html>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Please, we would like to get feedback from you.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you very much.
> >>>>> PETR
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  ___                   _   _       _
> >>>>> / _ \ _ __   ___ _ __ | | | |_   _| |__
> >>>>> | | | | '_ \ / _ \ '_ \| |_| | | | | '_ \
> >>>>> | |_| | |_) |  __/ | | |  _  | |_| | |_) |
> >>>>> \___/| .__/ \___|_| |_|_| |_|\__,_|_.__/
> >>>>>      |_|                   version: 2.0.0-RC1
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Bilgin Ibryam
> >>>> ASF Member | Architect at Red Hat
> >>>> http://ofbizian.com | @bibryam <https://twitter.com/bibryam>
> >>>>
> >>>> Kubernetes Patterns http://leanpub.com/k8spatterns (in progress)
> >>>> Camel Design Patterns https://leanpub.com/camel-design-patterns
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Claus Ibsen
> >>> -----------------
> >>> http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
> >>> Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Claus Ibsen
> > -----------------
> > http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
> > Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2
>


-- 
Claus Ibsen
-----------------
http://davsclaus.com @davsclaus
Camel in Action 2: https://www.manning.com/ibsen2