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Posted to general@jakarta.apache.org by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com> on 2003/01/28 00:21:06 UTC
LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....
There is plenty of it here at Apache, but what is the official status of
LGPL. I am well aware that GPL linkage is verbotten and for good
reason. However GPL is a very different beast.
Given that the FSF has plenty to say about Apache license in conjunction
with the GPL, but little to say about the same scenario with respect to
the LGPL, what is the situation for us?
To clarify the use of the LGPL software - it is direct use (import and
instantiate) rather than extend or implement. I believe there is good
separation.
http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-avalon-excalibur/altrmi/src/java/org/apache/excalibur/altrmi/client/impl/socket/AbstractSocketStreamSSHInvocationHandler.java
I am aware of a recent Cocoon discussion, but cannot believe they came
to the conclusion that they could not use it. What I am really looking
for is the wisdom from those who've had legal counsel for Apache on this
subject.
- Paul
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Re: LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
Mr RMS then needs to publish something about using LGPL/GPL with Java.
Personally I agree with the need for LGPL for library applications,
however LGPL's wording is phrased in C terminology and I have never seen
anyone offering good legal advice on whether LGPL is usable with Java
properly.
So that means using BSD. Afaik, Apache and BSD licenses are pretty much
the same, except that Apache license is 1) copyright owned by ASF and 2)
Useable only by the ASF.
I wish his page would list what the few requirements are that render it
incompatible with GNU GPL, or whether it is a lack of requirements.
Hen
On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> On 30/1/03 7:58 "Paul Hammant" <Pa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <different subject/> I am not sure of Steffano's assertion that a Cocoon
> > block can be GPL from the last of that thread.. If it does an import of
> > org.apache.anything it is in trouble from my understanding of RMS's
> > typed GPL wisdoms (pasted below from
> > http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses ) :
>
> That is RMS's vision, Roy's quite different, and I and Stefano ( with ONE
> "f") both agree with him. And as I pointed out in my emails to cocoon-dev,
> this should be really a discussion targeted to community@ or licensing@ ...
>
> God bless the power to say "off topic" :-) :-)
>
> Pier
>
>
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Re: LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 30/1/03 7:58 "Paul Hammant" <Pa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> <different subject/> I am not sure of Steffano's assertion that a Cocoon
> block can be GPL from the last of that thread.. If it does an import of
> org.apache.anything it is in trouble from my understanding of RMS's
> typed GPL wisdoms (pasted below from
> http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses ) :
That is RMS's vision, Roy's quite different, and I and Stefano ( with ONE
"f") both agree with him. And as I pointed out in my emails to cocoon-dev,
this should be really a discussion targeted to community@ or licensing@ ...
God bless the power to say "off topic" :-) :-)
Pier
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Re: LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....
Posted by Paul Hammant <Pa...@yahoo.com>.
Pier,
> The end of the thread on cocoon-dev...
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=cocoon-dev@xml.apache.or
> g&msgId=625635
>
> We came to the conclusion (I believe) that we don't _want_ it.
Agree. Much better truly open linkables.
> Roughly the whole thread:
>
> http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList?listId=&listName=cocoon-dev%40
> xml.apache.org&searchText=LGPL&defaultField=subject&Search=Search
An interesting read...
<different subject/> I am not sure of Steffano's assertion that a Cocoon
block can be GPL from the last of that thread.. If it does an import of
org.apache.anything it is in trouble from my understanding of RMS's
typed GPL wisdoms (pasted below from
http://www.fsf.org/licenses/license-list.html#GPLIncompatibleLicenses ) :
"The Apache License, Version 1.1 <http://www.apache.org/LICENSE-1.1>.
This is a permissive non-copyleft free
software license with a few requirements that render it incompatible with
the GNU GPL. We urge you not to use the Apache licenses for software you
write. However, there is no reason to avoid running programs that have
been released under this license, such as Apache."
As far as I know this covers any alleged GPL work importing org.apache.*
and any Apache 1.1 licensed work importing anything that is GPL. I
appreciate we have our own stand in this (the link to which I have
lost), that basically says we can't see the problem and want
clarification from the FSF.
- - -
With respect to LGPL, I am proceeding carefully with "use with great
care". As it happens the LGPL lib in question is proving difficult to
use...
- Paul
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Re: LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 27/1/03 23:21 "Paul Hammant" <Pa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> There is plenty of it here at Apache, but what is the official status of
> LGPL. I am well aware that GPL linkage is verbotten and for good
> reason. However GPL is a very different beast.
>
> Given that the FSF has plenty to say about Apache license in conjunction
> with the GPL, but little to say about the same scenario with respect to
> the LGPL, what is the situation for us?
>
> To clarify the use of the LGPL software - it is direct use (import and
> instantiate) rather than extend or implement. I believe there is good
> separation.
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-avalon-excalibur/altrmi/src/java/org/apa
> che/excalibur/altrmi/client/impl/socket/AbstractSocketStreamSSHInvocationHandl
> er.java
>
> I am aware of a recent Cocoon discussion, but cannot believe they came
> to the conclusion that they could not use it. What I am really looking
> for is the wisdom from those who've had legal counsel for Apache on this
> subject.
The end of the thread on cocoon-dev...
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg?listName=cocoon-dev@xml.apache.or
g&msgId=625635
We came to the conclusion (I believe) that we don't _want_ it.
Roughly the whole thread:
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/SearchList?listId=&listName=cocoon-dev%40
xml.apache.org&searchText=LGPL&defaultField=subject&Search=Search
Pier
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Re: LGPL beans imported into code at Apache....
Posted by Henri Yandell <ba...@generationjava.com>.
This seems to come up every now and then, so I'm just mentioning what I
remember from the previous times it has come up.
The word from on high is that LGPL is not to be distributed from Apache.
[ie no jars etc]. No legal action has officially been taken due to the
lack of funds to throw away on such things, but as LGPL is so poor at
matching the Java world, I doubt any legal advice would be that firm
anyway.
Whether LGPL code could be used, but not distributed, I don't know.
Hen
On Mon, 27 Jan 2003, Paul Hammant wrote:
> There is plenty of it here at Apache, but what is the official status of
> LGPL. I am well aware that GPL linkage is verbotten and for good
> reason. However GPL is a very different beast.
>
> Given that the FSF has plenty to say about Apache license in conjunction
> with the GPL, but little to say about the same scenario with respect to
> the LGPL, what is the situation for us?
>
> To clarify the use of the LGPL software - it is direct use (import and
> instantiate) rather than extend or implement. I believe there is good
> separation.
> http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs/jakarta-avalon-excalibur/altrmi/src/java/org/apache/excalibur/altrmi/client/impl/socket/AbstractSocketStreamSSHInvocationHandler.java
>
> I am aware of a recent Cocoon discussion, but cannot believe they came
> to the conclusion that they could not use it. What I am really looking
> for is the wisdom from those who've had legal counsel for Apache on this
> subject.
>
> - Paul
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: <ma...@jakarta.apache.org>
>
>
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