Re: [VOTE] Proposal: new xml-commons subproject...: comment to the 2 Scotts'

[Sh...@lotus.com]

There are two emails on roughly the same tangent subject here that I'll add
comments on in the middle:

---- you Scott_Boag@lotus.com wrote ----
> Can someone sum up where we are landing re a common area between Jakarta
> and org.apache.xml?  vs. Jakarta and org.apache.xml each having their own
> commons area?  I would vote for keeping them separate to start with, with
> an eye on merging them down the line.  Someone may have already said
this,
> but Jakarta is Java specific, and xml.apache.org is language independent.
> Also, I just worry about a global commons project too being too hard to
get
> off the ground... the generality would cause a lot of issues for
> xml.apache.org that I don't think we want to worry about yet.

(Comments to Scott Boag above and Scott Sanders below)
Re: common common area status: none, other than the fact that we've talked
about it here a little.  While long-term I think it'd be a good idea to try
to share both code and guidelines between jakarta and xml lands, in the
short term I'd have to give it a -1 vote too, for several reasons:

-- I'd like to get some real-life experience using a *-commons project
within other subprojects for a while before we expand the vision.  We
haven't even created xml-commons yet, and it's not clear exactly how long
jakarta-commons had been used in both daily development use and in shipped
jakarta tools yet.

-- As Scott (B) said: Jakarta and XML have different scopes and goals for
their subprojects - both in terms of languages (Java-focused vs.
Java/C/Perl/XML-isims) and in terms of the way we're trying to look at the
tools we build (general purpose nifty Java widgets, versus XML data
processing pipeline cogs).
Another way to look at it: the first issue for Jakarta projects is common
Java utility libraries.  The first issue for XML projects are the
externally defined standards: DOM, SAX, JAXP; first in Java and then in
C++.

-- As Scott (S) alludes to: Jakarta and XML have different communities.  I
believe each community needs to make it's *own* decisions about what to do
with common code/tools/standards/guidelines first.  We'll certainly be
watching each other's good ideas and there'll be plenty of stealing/sharing
going on, but each community needs to go through the process itself to both
get the most benefit from it and to create the first round of useful common
projects for the separate communities.

Given that, I'd certainly welcome anyone stepping forward to serve as
ambassadors between our communities, and perhaps if a Jakartaite sent us a
concise listing of useful docs and guidelines you've drawn up and your
mailing list (jakarta-commons@jakarta.apache.org, right?) we can start
sharing...

But the beginning process for xml-commons needs to be worked out within the
xml.apache.org community to start with.  (Not that there aren't plenty of
people in both communities: perhaps if Scott S becomes the first
ambassador, we can put Sam R's face on our first most wanted poster 8-)
- Shane

---- you Scott Sanders <sa...@totalsync.com> wrote ----
> I am a committer over in jakarta land, involved with jakarta-commons,
> and I think that you guys have at least some overlap with the
> jakarta-commons idea.
>
> Is it possible to see any sort of cooperation over this, like a
> commons.apache.org  rather than a jakarta-commons and a xml-commons?
>
> I think that even if there is some overlap, that the jakarta and xml
> communities coming together to create a common 'commons' would be a
> strength for both sides, with no weaknesses.
>
> For example, at jakarta-commons, we are currently working on xml -> java
> mapping code, which obviously has overlap with what you guys have here.
>   I think the more we can get the two camps talking, the more common
> code can be found.  Another example is the collections project, which is
> trying to aggregate all of the Java Collections API extensions that
> various projects have made.  I am sure that xerces, xalan, cocoon, fop,
> etc have some of these.
>
> With that, I would like to volunteer, as an initial committer if
> possible, and try to be an ambassador between xml-commons and
> jakarta-commons, if we can't get both to come together ;-)

(Oh: xml-commons/xml and /xsl are good ideas too!)




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