You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to users@maven.apache.org by Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> on 2006/05/26 00:01:27 UTC
Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
-K
On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Kathryn
>>
>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
>>
>> Ben
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>> Thanks, that worked.
>>>
>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on my
>>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>>
>>> -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kathryn.
>>>>
>>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>>>>
>>>> <mirror>
>>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
>>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
>>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
>>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
>>>> </mirror>
>>>>
>>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
>>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
>>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
>>>> other remote repositries.
>>>>
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
>>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
>>>>> this on 80/443).
>>>>>
>>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
>>>>> the
>>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>>>>
>>>>> What now?
>>>>>
>>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>>>>
>>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
>>>>> or
>>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>>>>
>>>>> -K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
>>>>>> switch to
>>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> hard ;-)
>>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> ping us for help
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
>>>>>> post fix the version
>>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
>>>>>> fix
>>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
>>>>>> project'poms.
>>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
>>>>>> go
>>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
>>>>>> for daily update.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
>>>>>> have gone thru
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope it helps
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -D
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
>>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>>>>>>> description.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
>>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
>>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
>>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
>>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
>>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
>>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
>>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
>>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
>>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
>>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
>>>>>>> applications.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
>>>>>>> serious consideration.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
>>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
>>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
>>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
>>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
>>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
>>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
>>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
>>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
>>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
>>>>>>> audience developers?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a
>>>>>>> bad thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
>>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
>>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
>>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". Nooooo. I have
>>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
>>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
>>>>>>> plugins configuration).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
>>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As
>>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
>>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world build
>>>>>>> situations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not frozen.
>>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own
>>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it exclusively,
>>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an external
>>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently
>>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a
>>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list, it
>>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but there
>>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the repository is
>>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a reproducibility
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
>>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to like
>>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really smart
>>>>>>> people working on it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects like this
>>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of attempting
>>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the target
>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've just missed
>>>>>>> the point completely.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chas Douglass
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Daniel Kulp <da...@iona.com>.
Well, we actually use maven-proxy to host the inhouse repository.
Basically, we have it configured with repo.local.store pointing to the
actual repository dir and repo.list empty. Thus, it just serves up
what's in the dir.
The main reason we did that was for the search capabilities. A developer
can point at the repository URL and execute a search. Works quite well
when it gets large. Keeps people from having to log into the machine
and running a "find". It also means the "UI" is exactly the same for
the proxied content as the non-proxied content.
That said, we DO use maven-proxies at our other remote sites to proxy the
inhouse repository. That's just a performance enhancement though. The
VPN between the sites isn't always very good.
Enjoy!
Dan
On Thursday 25 May 2006 18:01, Kathryn Huxtable wrote:
> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>
> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>
> -K
>
> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> > In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
> >
> > On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Kathryn
> >>
> >> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
> >> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
> >> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the
> >> next programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much
> >> faster.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>> Thanks, that worked.
> >>>
> >>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up
> >>> maven-proxy on their own machine, or have one proxy site for an
> >>> organization? If it's on my local machine I can use standalone.
> >>>
> >>> -K
> >>>
> >>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>> Kathryn.
> >>>>
> >>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
> >>>>
> >>>> <mirror>
> >>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
> >>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
> >>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
> >>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
> >>>> </mirror>
> >>>>
> >>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy
> >>>> for the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt
> >>>> have the requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio,
> >>>> codehaus or other remote repositries.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team
> >>>>> doesn't have control over the firewall settings for our web
> >>>>> servers, so I need to have this on 80/443).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and
> >>>>> edited the
> >>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What now?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
> >>>>> codehaus or
> >>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -K
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own
> >>>>>> recommendations:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is
> >>>>>> down, you can switch to
> >>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy
> >>>>>> is not that
> >>>>>> hard ;-)
> >>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion.
> >>>>>> Feel free to
> >>>>>> ping us for help
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the
> >>>>>> source and post fix the version
> >>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
> >>>>>> feature/bug fix
> >>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
> >>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision}
> >>>>>> and deploy to
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by
> >>>>>> your project'poms.
> >>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not
> >>>>>> have to go
> >>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
> >>>>>> for daily update.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that
> >>>>>> others and I have gone thru
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hope it helps
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -D
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and
> >>>>>>> when a fellow developer used it successfully to build a small
> >>>>>>> library for me, I thought it was time to jump in.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on
> >>>>>>> my project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into
> >>>>>>> 7 Maven pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
> >>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a
> >>>>>>> kind description.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and
> >>>>>>> dead-ends on the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and
> >>>>>>> found out there is a "secret" book that documents much of Maven
> >>>>>>> (ok, it's not really secret, but should I really have to
> >>>>>>> subscribe to a mailing list to find out there is more
> >>>>>>> documentation?).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't
> >>>>>>> released yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's
> >>>>>>> secret.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several
> >>>>>>> unreleased and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens?
> >>>>>>> New releases of a number of modules come out and everything
> >>>>>>> breaks! Have I specified a release where I shouldn't have?
> >>>>>>> Have I NOT specified a release where I SHOULD have? Based on
> >>>>>>> the limited traffic of the problem on the user's list, I can
> >>>>>>> only conclude that most people that use Maven are building the
> >>>>>>> plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to
> >>>>>>> build applications.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs
> >>>>>>> some serious consideration.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line
> >>>>>>> pom.xml builds this huge project". But that's only if you
> >>>>>>> happen to want to do EXACTLY that ONE thing (which seems to be:
> >>>>>>> build a Maven plugin). The real world is more complicated.
> >>>>>>> And as soon as I want to get more complicated, Maven obliges me
> >>>>>>> by getting WAY more complicated. Most of this complication is
> >>>>>>> due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to
> >>>>>>> download and compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released
> >>>>>>> yet (the jnlp plugin), but I'm not expected to understand a
> >>>>>>> FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use
> >>>>>>> it to make a pom.xml that actually includes information for
> >>>>>>> everything it does? This would be self-documenting to
> >>>>>>> developers. Isn't the target audience developers?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that
> >>>>>>> that is a bad thing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the
> >>>>>>> configuration file is used to document the product! It is MUCH
> >>>>>>> more enlightening to see a comment with a commented-out section
> >>>>>>> than, well, nothing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I
> >>>>>>> simply search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5".
> >>>>>>> Nooooo. I have to research which plugin actually sets this
> >>>>>>> value, how it sets this value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml
> >>>>>>> (assuming I did not yet have any plugins configuration).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
> >>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central
> >>>>>>> repository. As evidenced by the hardware failure at
> >>>>>>> codehaus.org, this is a single-point-of-failure that is simply
> >>>>>>> unacceptable in real world build situations.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not
> >>>>>>> frozen. I could never see my company using Maven unless we set
> >>>>>>> up our own version of the repository, and probably only if we
> >>>>>>> used it exclusively, since we require complete build
> >>>>>>> reproducibility. Relying on an external organization to not
> >>>>>>> make "secret" updates (as has been recently discussed) is
> >>>>>>> simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a "central"
> >>>>>>> repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list, it
> >>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it,
> >>>>>>> but there is going to be a nagging suspicion when something
> >>>>>>> breaks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the
> >>>>>>> repository is unavailable, and for large users it represents a
> >>>>>>> reproducibility problem.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
> >>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really
> >>>>>>> want to like it. I think there are some great ideas, and
> >>>>>>> clearly some really smart people working on it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects
> >>>>>>> like this to succeed, I really do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of
> >>>>>>> attempting to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just
> >>>>>>> not the target audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field.
> >>>>>>> Perhaps I've just missed the point completely.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chas Douglass
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>------ To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >>>>>>> users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org For additional commands,
> >>>>>>> e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>---- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>--- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org For
> >>>> additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org For
> >>> additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
--
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer
IONA
P: 781-902-8727 C: 508-380-7194
daniel.kulp@iona.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Tamás Cservenák <t....@gmail.com>.
Inhouse repo, if you look at Proximity is very important to achieve stable
and controlled build environment.
If you have some company level (reaches through more separate projects)
some-utility.jar, how will you spread it amongst developers? How will you
achieve if some-utility.jar is updated, to update all developer environment
too?
Will everybody issue "maven install:install-file"? They could :)
Publish it on the inhouse repo and done. Every developer will acess your
artifact as they access for example log4j.
See here
https://is-micro.myip.hu/projects/ismicro-commons/proximity/
~t~
On 5/26/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>
> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>
> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>
> -K
>
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Trygve Laugstøl <tr...@apache.org>.
Kevin Galligan wrote:
> Just had a crazy thought about the "external organization making secret
> changes" issue. If the issue is with snapshot builds I guess I don't have
> much for you there (other than the above, of course). However if the
> concern is simply that you don't know that what's in the repository hasn't
> changed, I had a wacky idea.
>
> Maybe we write a plugin that does the following. When you set up a new
> project or change an existing project's dependencies, you need to run that
> plugin. Something like:
>
> mvn depend-check:build
>
> It'll go through non-snapshot dependencies and build a datafile that
> keeps a
> hash of each of the artifacts. Keep that in the root directory next to the
> 'pom.xml' file, and more importantly, keep it in source control.
>
> Attach the plugin to the build, although the goal would be like
> 'depend-check:check'. This plugin would consult with the datafile built
> earlier and check that each local artifact matched what was used originally
> for the build. If something doesn't match, you'll get an error and an
> aborted build.
This has been asked before and would be a very useful plugin for some.
It should also be fairly easy to implement and I'm sure it would be
accepted into the Mojo sandbox.
--
Trygve
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Kevin Galligan <kg...@gmail.com>.
Just had a crazy thought about the "external organization making secret
changes" issue. If the issue is with snapshot builds I guess I don't have
much for you there (other than the above, of course). However if the
concern is simply that you don't know that what's in the repository hasn't
changed, I had a wacky idea.
Maybe we write a plugin that does the following. When you set up a new
project or change an existing project's dependencies, you need to run that
plugin. Something like:
mvn depend-check:build
It'll go through non-snapshot dependencies and build a datafile that keeps a
hash of each of the artifacts. Keep that in the root directory next to the
'pom.xml' file, and more importantly, keep it in source control.
Attach the plugin to the build, although the goal would be like
'depend-check:check'. This plugin would consult with the datafile built
earlier and check that each local artifact matched what was used originally
for the build. If something doesn't match, you'll get an error and an
aborted build.
I mean, personally, I'm not awake at night worried that struts 1.2.9 is
different than it was 3 months ago, but I understand from where your concern
comes.
Of course, I'm exhausted, so maybe my idea is impratical or whatever, but I
think it would serve as a decent sanity check. if just knowing that
something is not right isn't enough, maybe as part of the release or deploy
plugins you can optionally stuff a copy of all artifacts somewhere.
As to maven being bleeding edge and being quirky, I'd agree. However, at
this point I wouldn't start a new project without it. And, believe me, I'm
the first guy to scream "Emporer's New Clothes" when people get overly
excited about some hyped new thing.
I'm sure I've convinced you ;)
On 5/26/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>
> Uh, I guess so. ;-) I did mean "he".
>
> Sorry, I was up late last night playing Civilization IV. (I really need to
> lock my Dell up in a drawer.) I shouldn't touch a keyboard lest I break
> something.
>
> -K, off to bed
>
>
> On 5/25/06 6:40 PM, "Lee Meador" <le...@leemeador.com> wrote:
>
> > Uh .. when HE made an error. Is that another test?
> >
> > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in
> law
> >> would say when I made an error.
> >>
> >> -K
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository.
> >>>
> >>> What do you mean my sshext?
> >>>
> >>> Ben
> >>>
> >>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>> Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy
> >> your
> >>>> inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
> >>>>
> >>>> My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
> >>>> intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for
> >> access
> >>>> control reasons.
> >>>>
> >>>> If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms
> >> to
> >>>> restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
> >>>>
> >>>> If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use
> Shibboleth
> >> or
> >>>> something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
> >>>>
> >>>> -K
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Well you wouldnt.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
> >>>>> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
> >>>>> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
> >>>>> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
> >>>>> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
> >>>>> development team.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does that help?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ben
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic
> >> there.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -K
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Kathryn
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all
> the
> >>>>>>>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads
> >> it
> >>>>>>>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the
> >> next
> >>>>>>>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much
> >> faster.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, that worked.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up
> >> maven-proxy on
> >>>>>>>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization?
> If
> >> it's
> >>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>>>> local machine I can use standalone.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -K
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Kathryn.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> <mirror>
> >>>>>>>>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
> >>>>>>>>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
> >>>>>>>>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
> >>>>>>>>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
> >>>>>>>>>> </mirror>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy
> >> for
> >>>>>>>>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus
> or
> >>>>>>>>>> other remote repositries.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Ben
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team
> >> doesn't
> >>>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I
> >> need to
> >>>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>> this on 80/443).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> edited
> >>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> What now?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this
> work?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next
> time
> >>>>>>>>>>> codehaus
> >>>>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> -K
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own
> >> recommendations:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is
> >> down, you
> >>>>>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>>>> switch to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up
> >> maven-proxy is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> hard ;-)
> >>>>>>>>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy
> >> discussion. Feel
> >>>>>>>>>>>> free
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ping us for help
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch
> the
> >> source
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> post fix the version
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> feature/bug
> >>>>>>>>>>>> fix
> >>>>>>>>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
> >>>>>>>>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build
> 2.2-${svn.revision}and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> deploy
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used
> by
> >> your
> >>>>>>>>>>>> project'poms.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does
> not
> >> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
> >>>>>>>>>>>> for daily update.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that
> >> others
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have gone thru
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hope it helps
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> -D
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and
> >> when a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small
> library
> >> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>> me,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on
> >> my
> >>>>>>>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into
> 7
> >> Maven
> >>>>>>>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice
> >> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be
> a
> >> kind
> >>>>>>>>>>>> description.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and
> >> dead-ends
> >>>>>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out
> >> there is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not
> >> really
> >>>>>>>>>>>> secret,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to
> >> find out
> >>>>>>>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that
> aren't
> >>>>>>>>>>>> released
> >>>>>>>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several
> >>>>>>>>>>>> unreleased
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New
> >> releases of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I
> >> specified
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a
> >> release
> >>>>>>>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> user's
> >>>>>>>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> building
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it
> >> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> build
> >>>>>>>>>>>> applications.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs
> >> some
> >>>>>>>>>>>> serious consideration.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line
> >> pom.xml
> >>>>>>>>>>>> builds
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to
> >> do
> >>>>>>>>>>>> EXACTLY
> >>>>>>>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven
> plugin). The
> >> real
> >>>>>>>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
> >>>>>>>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more
> >> complicated. Most
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from
> >> me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to
> >> download
> >>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the
> >> jnlp
> >>>>>>>>>>>> plugin),
> >>>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build
> >> file?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you
> use
> >> it to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for
> >> everything it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't
> >> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> target
> >>>>>>>>>>>> audience developers?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and
> that
> >> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> bad thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the
> >> configuration
> >>>>>>>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more
> >> enlightening
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well,
> >> nothing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I
> >> simply
> >>>>>>>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5
> >> ". Nooooo. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it
> sets
> >> this
> >>>>>>>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet
> >> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>>>>>>> plugins configuration).
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central
> >> repository.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> As
> >>>>>>>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real
> >> world
> >>>>>>>>>>>> build
> >>>>>>>>>>>> situations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's
> not
> >>>>>>>>>>>> frozen.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our
> >> own
> >>>>>>>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on
> >> an
> >>>>>>>>>>>> external
> >>>>>>>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been
> >> recently
> >>>>>>>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up
> >> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the
> user's
> >> list,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it,
> >> but
> >>>>>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the
> >> repository is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a
> >> reproducibility
> >>>>>>>>>>>> problem.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really
> >> want to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> like
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some
> >> really
> >>>>>>>>>>>> smart
> >>>>>>>>>>>> people working on it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want
> projects
> >> like
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of
> >>>>>>>>>>>> attempting
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the
> >> target
> >>>>>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've
> >> just
> >>>>>>>>>>>> missed
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the point completely.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Chas Douglass
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>>
> >> >>
> >> -
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu>.
Uh, I guess so. ;-) I did mean "he".
Sorry, I was up late last night playing Civilization IV. (I really need to
lock my Dell up in a drawer.) I shouldn't touch a keyboard lest I break
something.
-K, off to bed
On 5/25/06 6:40 PM, "Lee Meador" <le...@leemeador.com> wrote:
> Uh .. when HE made an error. Is that another test?
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in law
>> would say when I made an error.
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository.
>>>
>>> What do you mean my sshext?
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>> Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy
>> your
>>>> inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
>>>>
>>>> My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
>>>> intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for
>> access
>>>> control reasons.
>>>>
>>>> If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms
>> to
>>>> restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
>>>>
>>>> If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth
>> or
>>>> something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
>>>>
>>>> -K
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well you wouldnt.
>>>>>
>>>>> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
>>>>> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
>>>>> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
>>>>> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
>>>>> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
>>>>> development team.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does that help?
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic
>> there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -K
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kathryn
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
>>>>>>>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads
>> it
>>>>>>>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the
>> next
>>>>>>>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much
>> faster.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, that worked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up
>> maven-proxy on
>>>>>>>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If
>> it's
>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -K
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kathryn.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <mirror>
>>>>>>>>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
>>>>>>>>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
>>>>>>>>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
>>>>>>>>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
>>>>>>>>>> </mirror>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy
>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have
>> the
>>>>>>>>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
>>>>>>>>>> other remote repositries.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team
>> doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I
>> need to
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> this on 80/443).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and
>>>>>>>>>>> edited
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What now?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
>>>>>>>>>>> codehaus
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -K
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own
>> recommendations:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is
>> down, you
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> switch to
>>>>>>>>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up
>> maven-proxy is
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy
>> discussion. Feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> ping us for help
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the
>> source
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> post fix the version
>>>>>>>>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
>>>>>>>>>>>> feature/bug
>>>>>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>>>>>>>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision}and
>>>>>>>>>>>> deploy
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by
>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> project'poms.
>>>>>>>>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not
>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
>>>>>>>>>>>> for daily update.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that
>> others
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have gone thru
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope it helps
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -D
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and
>> when a
>>>>>>>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on
>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7
>> Maven
>>>>>>>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>>>>>>>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice
>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a
>> kind
>>>>>>>>>>>> description.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and
>> dead-ends
>>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out
>> there is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not
>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>> secret,
>>>>>>>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to
>> find out
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't
>>>>>>>>>>>> released
>>>>>>>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several
>>>>>>>>>>>> unreleased
>>>>>>>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New
>> releases of
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I
>> specified
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a
>> release
>>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> user's
>>>>>>>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are
>>>>>>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it
>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>> applications.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>>>>>>>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs
>> some
>>>>>>>>>>>> serious consideration.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line
>> pom.xml
>>>>>>>>>>>> builds
>>>>>>>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to
>> do
>>>>>>>>>>>> EXACTLY
>>>>>>>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The
>> real
>>>>>>>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
>>>>>>>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more
>> complicated. Most
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from
>> me.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to
>> download
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the
>> jnlp
>>>>>>>>>>>> plugin),
>>>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build
>> file?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use
>> it to
>>>>>>>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for
>> everything it
>>>>>>>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>>>>>>> audience developers?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> bad thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the
>> configuration
>>>>>>>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more
>> enlightening
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well,
>> nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I
>> simply
>>>>>>>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5
>> ". Nooooo. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets
>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet
>> have
>>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>> plugins configuration).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central
>> repository.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real
>> world
>>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>>> situations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not
>>>>>>>>>>>> frozen.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our
>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it
>>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively,
>>>>>>>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on
>> an
>>>>>>>>>>>> external
>>>>>>>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been
>> recently
>>>>>>>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's
>> list,
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it,
>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the
>> repository is
>>>>>>>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a
>> reproducibility
>>>>>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really
>> want to
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some
>> really
>>>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>>>> people working on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects
>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of
>>>>>>>>>>>> attempting
>>>>>>>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the
>> target
>>>>>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've
>> just
>>>>>>>>>>>> missed
>>>>>>>>>>>> the point completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chas Douglass
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>>
>> >>
>> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Lee Meador <le...@leemeador.com>.
Uh .. when HE made an error. Is that another test?
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>
> I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in law
> would say when I made an error.
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository.
> >
> > What do you mean my sshext?
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >> Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy
> your
> >> inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
> >>
> >> My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
> >> intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for
> access
> >> control reasons.
> >>
> >> If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms
> to
> >> restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
> >>
> >> If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth
> or
> >> something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
> >>
> >> -K
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Well you wouldnt.
> >>>
> >>> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
> >>> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
> >>> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
> >>> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
> >>>
> >>> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
> >>> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
> >>> development team.
> >>>
> >>> Does that help?
> >>>
> >>> Ben
> >>>
> >>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic
> there.
> >>>>
> >>>> -K
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Kathryn
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
> >>>>>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads
> it
> >>>>>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the
> next
> >>>>>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much
> faster.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ben
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Thanks, that worked.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up
> maven-proxy on
> >>>>>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If
> it's
> >>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>> my
> >>>>>>> local machine I can use standalone.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -K
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Kathryn.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <mirror>
> >>>>>>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
> >>>>>>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
> >>>>>>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
> >>>>>>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
> >>>>>>>> </mirror>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy
> for
> >>>>>>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have
> the
> >>>>>>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
> >>>>>>>> other remote repositries.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Ben
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team
> doesn't
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I
> need to
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> this on 80/443).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and
> >>>>>>>>> edited
> >>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What now?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
> >>>>>>>>> codehaus
> >>>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -K
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own
> recommendations:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is
> down, you
> >>>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>> switch to
> >>>>>>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up
> maven-proxy is
> >>>>>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>> hard ;-)
> >>>>>>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy
> discussion. Feel
> >>>>>>>>>> free
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> ping us for help
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the
> source
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> post fix the version
> >>>>>>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
> >>>>>>>>>> feature/bug
> >>>>>>>>>> fix
> >>>>>>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
> >>>>>>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision}and
> >>>>>>>>>> deploy
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by
> your
> >>>>>>>>>> project'poms.
> >>>>>>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not
> have
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
> >>>>>>>>>> for daily update.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that
> others
> >>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>> have gone thru
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Hope it helps
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -D
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and
> when a
> >>>>>>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library
> for
> >>>>>>>>>>> me,
> >>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on
> my
> >>>>>>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7
> Maven
> >>>>>>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a
> kind
> >>>>>>>>>>> description.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and
> dead-ends
> >>>>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out
> there is
> >>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not
> really
> >>>>>>>>>>> secret,
> >>>>>>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to
> find out
> >>>>>>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't
> >>>>>>>>>>> released
> >>>>>>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several
> >>>>>>>>>>> unreleased
> >>>>>>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New
> releases of
> >>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I
> specified
> >>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a
> release
> >>>>>>>>>>> where
> >>>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> user's
> >>>>>>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are
> >>>>>>>>>>> building
> >>>>>>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it
> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> build
> >>>>>>>>>>> applications.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs
> some
> >>>>>>>>>>> serious consideration.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line
> pom.xml
> >>>>>>>>>>> builds
> >>>>>>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to
> do
> >>>>>>>>>>> EXACTLY
> >>>>>>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The
> real
> >>>>>>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
> >>>>>>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more
> complicated. Most
> >>>>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from
> me.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to
> download
> >>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the
> jnlp
> >>>>>>>>>>> plugin),
> >>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build
> file?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use
> it to
> >>>>>>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for
> everything it
> >>>>>>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>> target
> >>>>>>>>>>> audience developers?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> bad thing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the
> configuration
> >>>>>>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more
> enlightening
> >>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well,
> nothing.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I
> simply
> >>>>>>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5
> ". Nooooo. I
> >>>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets
> this
> >>>>>>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet
> have
> >>>>>>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>>>>>> plugins configuration).
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
> >>>>>>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central
> repository.
> >>>>>>>>>>> As
> >>>>>>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
> >>>>>>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real
> world
> >>>>>>>>>>> build
> >>>>>>>>>>> situations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not
> >>>>>>>>>>> frozen.
> >>>>>>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our
> own
> >>>>>>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it
> >>>>>>>>>>> exclusively,
> >>>>>>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on
> an
> >>>>>>>>>>> external
> >>>>>>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been
> recently
> >>>>>>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up
> a
> >>>>>>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's
> list,
> >>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it,
> but
> >>>>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the
> repository is
> >>>>>>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a
> reproducibility
> >>>>>>>>>>> problem.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
> >>>>>>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really
> want to
> >>>>>>>>>>> like
> >>>>>>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some
> really
> >>>>>>>>>>> smart
> >>>>>>>>>>> people working on it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects
> like
> >>>>>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of
> >>>>>>>>>>> attempting
> >>>>>>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the
> target
> >>>>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've
> just
> >>>>>>>>>>> missed
> >>>>>>>>>>> the point completely.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Chas Douglass
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>
> -
> >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
--
-- Lee Meador
Sent from gmail. My real email address is lee@leemeador.com
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu>.
I actually meant scpexe. "I was just testing you," as my ex-father in law
would say when I made an error.
-K
On 5/25/06 5:45 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository.
>
> What do you mean my sshext?
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>> Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy your
>> inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
>>
>> My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
>> intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for access
>> control reasons.
>>
>> If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms to
>> restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
>>
>> If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth or
>> something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Well you wouldnt.
>>>
>>> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
>>> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
>>> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
>>> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
>>>
>>> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
>>> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
>>> development team.
>>>
>>> Does that help?
>>>
>>> Ben
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>>>>
>>>> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>>>>
>>>> -K
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kathryn
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
>>>>>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
>>>>>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
>>>>>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Thanks, that worked.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
>>>>>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kathryn.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <mirror>
>>>>>>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
>>>>>>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
>>>>>>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
>>>>>>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
>>>>>>>> </mirror>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
>>>>>>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
>>>>>>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
>>>>>>>> other remote repositries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> this on 80/443).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and
>>>>>>>>> edited
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What now?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time
>>>>>>>>> codehaus
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -K
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> switch to
>>>>>>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> hard ;-)
>>>>>>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel
>>>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> ping us for help
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> post fix the version
>>>>>>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a
>>>>>>>>>> feature/bug
>>>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>>>>>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and
>>>>>>>>>> deploy
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
>>>>>>>>>> project'poms.
>>>>>>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not have
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
>>>>>>>>>> for daily update.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> have gone thru
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hope it helps
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -D
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>>>>>>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for
>>>>>>>>>>> me,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>>>>>>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>>>>>>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>>>>>>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>>>>>>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>>>>>>>>>>> description.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends
>>>>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really
>>>>>>>>>>> secret,
>>>>>>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>>>>>>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't
>>>>>>>>>>> released
>>>>>>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several
>>>>>>>>>>> unreleased
>>>>>>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release
>>>>>>>>>>> where
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the
>>>>>>>>>>> user's
>>>>>>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are
>>>>>>>>>>> building
>>>>>>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to
>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>> applications.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>>>>>>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
>>>>>>>>>>> serious consideration.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml
>>>>>>>>>>> builds
>>>>>>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do
>>>>>>>>>>> EXACTLY
>>>>>>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
>>>>>>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
>>>>>>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp
>>>>>>>>>>> plugin),
>>>>>>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
>>>>>>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
>>>>>>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the
>>>>>>>>>>> target
>>>>>>>>>>> audience developers?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> bad thing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
>>>>>>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
>>>>>>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". Nooooo. I
>>>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
>>>>>>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have
>>>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>>>> plugins configuration).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central repository.
>>>>>>>>>>> As
>>>>>>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
>>>>>>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world
>>>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>>>> situations.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not
>>>>>>>>>>> frozen.
>>>>>>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own
>>>>>>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it
>>>>>>>>>>> exclusively,
>>>>>>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an
>>>>>>>>>>> external
>>>>>>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently
>>>>>>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a
>>>>>>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list,
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the repository is
>>>>>>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a reproducibility
>>>>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
>>>>>>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really
>>>>>>>>>>> smart
>>>>>>>>>>> people working on it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects like
>>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of
>>>>>>>>>>> attempting
>>>>>>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the target
>>>>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've just
>>>>>>>>>>> missed
>>>>>>>>>>> the point completely.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chas Douglass
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
-------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>>>>>>
-
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by ben short <be...@benshort.co.uk>.
Yes you use the maven-proxy to serve the internal repository.
What do you mean my sshext?
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy your
> inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
>
> My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
> intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for access
> control reasons.
>
> If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms to
> restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
>
> If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth or
> something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Well you wouldnt.
> >
> > The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
> > hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
> > that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
> > after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
> >
> > Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
> > all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
> > development team.
> >
> > Does that help?
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
> >>
> >> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
> >>
> >> -K
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Kathryn
> >>>>
> >>>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
> >>>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
> >>>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
> >>>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks, that worked.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
> >>>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on
> >>>>> my
> >>>>> local machine I can use standalone.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -K
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Kathryn.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <mirror>
> >>>>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
> >>>>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
> >>>>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
> >>>>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
> >>>>>> </mirror>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
> >>>>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
> >>>>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
> >>>>>> other remote repositries.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ben
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
> >>>>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> this on 80/443).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What now?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
> >>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -K
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you
> >>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>> switch to
> >>>>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> hard ;-)
> >>>>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel
> >>>>>>>> free
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> ping us for help
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> post fix the version
> >>>>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
> >>>>>>>> fix
> >>>>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
> >>>>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and
> >>>>>>>> deploy
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> your
> >>>>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
> >>>>>>>> project'poms.
> >>>>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
> >>>>>>>> go
> >>>>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
> >>>>>>>> for daily update.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and
> >>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>> have gone thru
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hope it helps
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -D
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
> >>>>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me,
> >>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
> >>>>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
> >>>>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
> >>>>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
> >>>>>>>>> description.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
> >>>>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
> >>>>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really
> >>>>>>>>> secret,
> >>>>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
> >>>>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't
> >>>>>>>>> released
> >>>>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
> >>>>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
> >>>>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
> >>>>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where
> >>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the
> >>>>>>>>> user's
> >>>>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
> >>>>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
> >>>>>>>>> applications.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
> >>>>>>>>> serious consideration.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml
> >>>>>>>>> builds
> >>>>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do
> >>>>>>>>> EXACTLY
> >>>>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
> >>>>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
> >>>>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most
> >>>>>>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download
> >>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp
> >>>>>>>>> plugin),
> >>>>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
> >>>>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
> >>>>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
> >>>>>>>>> audience developers?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is
> >>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>> bad thing.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
> >>>>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
> >>>>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
> >>>>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". Nooooo. I
> >>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
> >>>>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
> >>>>>>>>> plugins configuration).
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
> >>>>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As
> >>>>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
> >>>>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world
> >>>>>>>>> build
> >>>>>>>>> situations.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not frozen.
> >>>>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own
> >>>>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it
> >>>>>>>>> exclusively,
> >>>>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an
> >>>>>>>>> external
> >>>>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently
> >>>>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a
> >>>>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list,
> >>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but
> >>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the repository is
> >>>>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a reproducibility
> >>>>>>>>> problem.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
> >>>>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to
> >>>>>>>>> like
> >>>>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really smart
> >>>>>>>>> people working on it.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects like
> >>>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of
> >>>>>>>>> attempting
> >>>>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the target
> >>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've just
> >>>>>>>>> missed
> >>>>>>>>> the point completely.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Chas Douglass
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Tamás Cservenák <t....@gmail.com>.
I think it help.
The good thing about two existing known maven-proxies (codehaus maven-proxy
and Proximity) is that they're actually 2in1 solutions. They are NOT
strictly a proxy as a HTTP proxy. The are just ABLE to behave like http
proxy (or the logic that drives them is similar to HTTP proxy).
They are also fully functional when it comes to repository hosting too. And
you have extras: fast searching, access management, etc.
My practice with Proximity is following:
define proxied repo for central, codehaus, etc...
define LOCAL (so not proxied reposes) like inhouse, etc.
Proxy storages are handled ONLY BY Proximity.
And PUBLISH local proxy storages using standard ways (ftp, sftp, sambe,
nfs...) and make your developers DEPLOY onto them using Maven2 itself! In
case of a commercial project, it should be right in the superpom where is
the deployment area, etc...
In our house, we use JDS2* with well defined paths and URLs. On POM creation
a developer knowing the project ID of project (this ID is used in paths,
URLs, mailing list names, etc something like SourceForge project id) can
write complete POM almost out of his head.
And it's easier to maintain (one application in company does proxying and
hosting) - one backup - one thing less to worry.
Some WIKI scratch that tries to define JDS2 and what it should be.
https://is-micro.myip.hu/trac/ismicro-jds2
~t~
On 5/26/06, ben short <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Well you wouldnt.
>
> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
>
> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
> development team.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Ben
>
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu>.
Yes, it helps, as does Daniel Kulp's message. You don't need to proxy your
inhouse repo, but you can just to simplify things.
My issue is that I'm at a university, where I don't have a developer
intranet for my team, so my inhouse repo is accessed via sshext for access
control reasons.
If my VPN were smarter I could use Apache's access control mechanisms to
restrict access to the team, but it's pretty limited.
If access control were easier to delegate I maybe could use Shibboleth or
something. (I manage Shibboleth for our campus.)
-K
On 5/25/06 5:11 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> Well you wouldnt.
>
> The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
> hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
> that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
> after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
>
> Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
> all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
> development team.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Ben
>
> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>>
>> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>>
>> -K
>>
>>
>> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kathryn
>>>>
>>>> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
>>>> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
>>>> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
>>>> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
>>>>
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Thanks, that worked.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
>>>>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on
>>>>> my
>>>>> local machine I can use standalone.
>>>>>
>>>>> -K
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Kathryn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <mirror>
>>>>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
>>>>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
>>>>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
>>>>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
>>>>>> </mirror>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
>>>>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
>>>>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
>>>>>> other remote repositries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ben
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
>>>>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> this on 80/443).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What now?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -K
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> switch to
>>>>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> hard ;-)
>>>>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel
>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> ping us for help
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> post fix the version
>>>>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
>>>>>>>> fix
>>>>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
>>>>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and
>>>>>>>> deploy
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
>>>>>>>> project'poms.
>>>>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
>>>>>>>> go
>>>>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
>>>>>>>> for daily update.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> have gone thru
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope it helps
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -D
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
>>>>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
>>>>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
>>>>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
>>>>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
>>>>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
>>>>>>>>> description.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
>>>>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
>>>>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really
>>>>>>>>> secret,
>>>>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
>>>>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't
>>>>>>>>> released
>>>>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
>>>>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
>>>>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
>>>>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the
>>>>>>>>> user's
>>>>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
>>>>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
>>>>>>>>> applications.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
>>>>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
>>>>>>>>> serious consideration.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml
>>>>>>>>> builds
>>>>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do
>>>>>>>>> EXACTLY
>>>>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
>>>>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
>>>>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp
>>>>>>>>> plugin),
>>>>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
>>>>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
>>>>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
>>>>>>>>> audience developers?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> bad thing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
>>>>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
>>>>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
>>>>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". Nooooo. I
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
>>>>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
>>>>>>>>> plugins configuration).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
>>>>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As
>>>>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
>>>>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world
>>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>>> situations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not frozen.
>>>>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own
>>>>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it
>>>>>>>>> exclusively,
>>>>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an
>>>>>>>>> external
>>>>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently
>>>>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a
>>>>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list,
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the repository is
>>>>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a reproducibility
>>>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
>>>>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really smart
>>>>>>>>> people working on it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects like
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of
>>>>>>>>> attempting
>>>>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the target
>>>>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've just
>>>>>>>>> missed
>>>>>>>>> the point completely.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chas Douglass
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Maven-proxy (was Re: Rant (very long))
Posted by ben short <be...@benshort.co.uk>.
Well you wouldnt.
The proxy is used to cache ( and persist ) the dependancies that are
hosted on the remote maven repos, like codehaus and ibilo. The means
that your developers have access to the dependacies at a high speed,
after they have been downloaded by the proxy.
Now an inhouse repositry would be seperate. In this you would store
all the jar that you produce and want to share between your
development team.
Does that help?
Ben
On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> Of course, one answer leads to another question... ;-)
>
> Why bother proxying inhouse repositories? I don't see the logic there.
>
> -K
>
>
> On 5/25/06 4:58 PM, "Kathryn Huxtable" <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > In that case, I'll stick with the webapp. Thanks much! -K
> >
> >
> > On 5/25/06 4:56 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Kathryn
> >>
> >> The idea is to have one proxy per organisation. That way if all the
> >> programmers need spring as a dependancy, the proxy only downloads it
> >> once, when the first programmer tries to build their project. the next
> >> programmer gets the dependancy from the proxy, making it much faster.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>> Thanks, that worked.
> >>>
> >>> Is the general opinion that each developer should set up maven-proxy on
> >>> their own machine, or have one proxy site for an organization? If it's on my
> >>> local machine I can use standalone.
> >>>
> >>> -K
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/25/06 2:36 PM, "ben short" <be...@benshort.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Kathryn.
> >>>>
> >>>> You need to add the following to your settings.xml.
> >>>>
> >>>> <mirror>
> >>>> <mirrorOf>central</mirrorOf>
> >>>> <name>Internal Mirror</name>
> >>>> <url>http://url.to.your.proxy</url>
> >>>> <id>local-proxy</id>
> >>>> </mirror>
> >>>>
> >>>> When you rum mvn on your local machine it will go to your proxy for
> >>>> the plugins and dependancies it needs. If the proxy doesnt have the
> >>>> requested jars it will try and get them from ibiblio, codehaus or
> >>>> other remote repositries.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben
> >>>>
> >>>> On 5/25/06, Kathryn Huxtable <kh...@ku.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> Okay, I'll bite. I just set up maven-proxy-webapp (my team doesn't have
> >>>>> control over the firewall settings for our web servers, so I need to have
> >>>>> this on 80/443).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I copied a maven-proxy-config.properties file from somewhere and edited
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> WEB_ROOT to be my local locations.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What now?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What do I change in settings.xml and pom.xml to make this work?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And how do I populate the proxy with jars so that the next time codehaus
> >>>>> or
> >>>>> ibiblio is down I can get work done?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -K
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/25/06 11:51 AM, "dan tran" <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Chas, i feel your pains, so here a list of my own recommendations:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 1. Get a maven-proxy in place, so when a central repo is down, you can
> >>>>>> switch to
> >>>>>> a another mirror without user notice. Set up maven-proxy is not
> >>>>>> that
> >>>>>> hard ;-)
> >>>>>> check out archive list for all maven-proxy discussion. Feel free
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> ping us for help
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2. Dont use snapshot, cut a release yourself. I fetch the source and
> >>>>>> post fix the version
> >>>>>> with svn revision number. For example, if I need a feature/bug
> >>>>>> fix
> >>>>>> in maven-assembly-plugin
> >>>>>> version 2.2-snapshot, then I build 2.2-${svn.revision} and deploy
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>> your
> >>>>>> internal repository that can serve by maven-proxy.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 3. Use pluginManagement to specify all plugins that used by your
> >>>>>> project'poms.
> >>>>>> This get your team's build much faster since it does not have to
> >>>>>> go
> >>>>>> to maven-proxy to look
> >>>>>> for daily update.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This settup will prevent most of maven's uncertainties that others and I
> >>>>>> have gone thru
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hope it helps
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -D
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/25/06, Chas Douglass <ch...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I really liked the idea of Maven2 when I heard about it, and when a
> >>>>>>> fellow developer used it successfully to build a small library for me, I
> >>>>>>> thought it was time to jump in.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Three weeks later I have managed to accomplish very little on my
> >>>>>>> project, and I've converted four simple Ant build files into 7 Maven
> >>>>>>> pom.xml's that, by and large, don't work.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> THE IMPLEMENTATION PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>> To advertise Maven 2 as "stable" is, I believe, a disservice to
> >>>>>>> developers. In my experience with it, "early beta" would be a kind
> >>>>>>> description.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> After struggling for the first week with broken links and dead-ends on
> >>>>>>> the web pages, I subscribed to the users list and found out there is a
> >>>>>>> "secret" book that documents much of Maven (ok, it's not really secret,
> >>>>>>> but should I really have to subscribe to a mailing list to find out
> >>>>>>> there is more documentation?).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Of course, the secret book also documents features that aren't released
> >>>>>>> yet (wagon is what bit me). Perhaps that's why it's secret.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So now I'm using a "stable" product (incorporating several unreleased
> >>>>>>> and poorly documented snapshots) and what happens? New releases of a
> >>>>>>> number of modules come out and everything breaks! Have I specified a
> >>>>>>> release where I shouldn't have? Have I NOT specified a release where I
> >>>>>>> SHOULD have? Based on the limited traffic of the problem on the user's
> >>>>>>> list, I can only conclude that most people that use Maven are building
> >>>>>>> the plugins/modules and that very few people actually use it to build
> >>>>>>> applications.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> THE DESIGN PROBLEMS
> >>>>>>> But my real beef comes to design decisions that I think needs some
> >>>>>>> serious consideration.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> MAVEN HIDES TOO MUCH.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It really is nice advertising to say "Look! This 12 line pom.xml builds
> >>>>>>> this huge project". But that's only if you happen to want to do EXACTLY
> >>>>>>> that ONE thing (which seems to be: build a Maven plugin). The real
> >>>>>>> world is more complicated. And as soon as I want to get more
> >>>>>>> complicated, Maven obliges me by getting WAY more complicated. Most of
> >>>>>>> this complication is due to, I believe, hiding too much from me.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Why is it that I'm expected, as a developer, to be able to download and
> >>>>>>> compile snapshots of plugins that aren't released yet (the jnlp plugin),
> >>>>>>> but I'm not expected to understand a FULL LIFE CYCLE build file?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You have this wonderful archetype mechanism, why don't you use it to
> >>>>>>> make a pom.xml that actually includes information for everything it
> >>>>>>> does? This would be self-documenting to developers. Isn't the target
> >>>>>>> audience developers?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I believe Maven is hiding the actual build structure, and that that is a
> >>>>>>> bad thing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have used a number of open source projects where the configuration
> >>>>>>> file is used to document the product! It is MUCH more enlightening to
> >>>>>>> see a comment with a commented-out section than, well, nothing.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> An example: I use Java 1.5. The Maven default is 1.4. Can I simply
> >>>>>>> search for "1.4" in the pom.xml and change it to "1.5". Nooooo. I have
> >>>>>>> to research which plugin actually sets this value, how it sets this
> >>>>>>> value, and add 9 lines to my pom.xml (assuming I did not yet have any
> >>>>>>> plugins configuration).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> THE CENTRAL REPOSITORY PROBLEM
> >>>>>>> I think the second major design problem is the central repository. As
> >>>>>>> evidenced by the hardware failure at codehaus.org, this is a
> >>>>>>> single-point-of-failure that is simply unacceptable in real world build
> >>>>>>> situations.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not only does it represent a single-point-of-failure, it's not frozen.
> >>>>>>> I could never see my company using Maven unless we set up our own
> >>>>>>> version of the repository, and probably only if we used it exclusively,
> >>>>>>> since we require complete build reproducibility. Relying on an external
> >>>>>>> organization to not make "secret" updates (as has been recently
> >>>>>>> discussed) is simply unacceptable. I haven't tried to set up a
> >>>>>>> "central" repository, but from scanning messages on the user's list, it
> >>>>>>> sounds somewhat less than well defined.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Personally (for open-source projects), I can probably use it, but there
> >>>>>>> is going to be a nagging suspicion when something breaks.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So, for small users it represents a roadblock when the repository is
> >>>>>>> unavailable, and for large users it represents a reproducibility
> >>>>>>> problem.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> CONCLUSION:
> >>>>>>> I think Maven is just "not ready for prime time". I really want to like
> >>>>>>> it. I think there are some great ideas, and clearly some really smart
> >>>>>>> people working on it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I hope this rant can be taken constructively. I want projects like this
> >>>>>>> to succeed, I really do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> And, please, I understand I'm one person. This is MY view of attempting
> >>>>>>> to use Maven to build MY projects. Perhaps I'm just not the target
> >>>>>>> audience. Perhaps I'm just out in left field. Perhaps I've just missed
> >>>>>>> the point completely.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Chas Douglass
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@maven.apache.org