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Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Andreas Hochsteger <e9...@student.tuwien.ac.at> on 2003/11/17 23:15:43 UTC
M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Hi All!
I just read on slashdot, that M$ published the XML Schema for their new
Office 2003 Suite (mostly Word related) including documentation:
http://isb.oio.dk/info/news/wordml+published.htm
According to
http://rep.oio.dk/Microsoft.com/officeschemas/LegalNotice.htm they are
even redistributable without fee, but I don't know, if that's relevant
for us.
I experimented a bit with with it and added a hello world example for
Word 2003 ML (see attachments for the results).
I don't know if it's worth adding it to CVS, but if you like, feel free
to do so ;-)
Enjoy!
--
Andreas Hochsteger
http://highstick.blogspot.com/
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Andreas Hochsteger <e9...@student.tuwien.ac.at>.
Hi!
Pleas don't panic!
If you read my mail carefully all I did was letting you all know, that
there are XML Schemas available and also noted, that I don't know if
that is relevant for us (meaning: I don't know, if we really have to
cope with the XML schema at all).
What I meant with "adding to CVS if someone wants to" was just the
sample (not the XML schema - that would be nonesense), although I had
not the opinion that this is such a great example that it has to be in CVS.
Sorry, if I potentially did some harm to the community, but all I wanted
to do is to see, how easy it is to make a new hello-world example for
this document format. I'm not interested any further in it nor did I
plan to inject some patent issues which might kill Cocoon (but I still
fail to see how such a hello-world example would allow to do this).
So if it's all that dramatic, please forget about the example (and we
have to think about removing the poi examples as well, since they
produce much more proprietary file formats ;-).
Bye,
Andreas
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Tony Collen dijo:
>
>>Andreas Hochsteger wrote:
>>
>>>Hi All!
>>>
>>>I just read on slashdot, that M$ published the XML Schema for their new
>>>Office 2003 Suite (mostly Word related) including documentation:
>>>http://isb.oio.dk/info/news/wordml+published.htm
>>>
>>>According to
>>>http://rep.oio.dk/Microsoft.com/officeschemas/LegalNotice.htm they are
>>>even redistributable without fee, but I don't know, if that's relevant
>>>for us.
>
>
> Did you read this in License?
>
> No right to create modifications or derivatives of this Specification is
> granted herein.
>
> There is a separate patent license available to parties interested in
> implementing software programs that can read and write files that conform
> to the Specification. This patent license is available at this location:
> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/format/xmlpatentlicense.asp.
>
> I am not telling it is bad. I am not lawyer and we need to read this stuff
> too. Please read it carefully before doing anything. If there something
> you don't understand or you disaprove, please let us know.
>
> While reading please keep in mind ANY potential damage to our beloved
> Cocoon. The last we want is to lose this nice project.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Antonio Gallardo
>
>
--
Andreas Hochsteger
http://highstick.blogspot.com/
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Tony Collen dijo:
> Andreas Hochsteger wrote:
>> Hi All!
>>
>> I just read on slashdot, that M$ published the XML Schema for their new
>> Office 2003 Suite (mostly Word related) including documentation:
>> http://isb.oio.dk/info/news/wordml+published.htm
>>
>> According to
>> http://rep.oio.dk/Microsoft.com/officeschemas/LegalNotice.htm they are
>> even redistributable without fee, but I don't know, if that's relevant
>> for us.
Did you read this in License?
No right to create modifications or derivatives of this Specification is
granted herein.
There is a separate patent license available to parties interested in
implementing software programs that can read and write files that conform
to the Specification. This patent license is available at this location:
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/format/xmlpatentlicense.asp.
I am not telling it is bad. I am not lawyer and we need to read this stuff
too. Please read it carefully before doing anything. If there something
you don't understand or you disaprove, please let us know.
While reading please keep in mind ANY potential damage to our beloved
Cocoon. The last we want is to lose this nice project.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Andreas Hochsteger <e9...@student.tuwien.ac.at>.
Tony Collen wrote:
> Andreas Hochsteger wrote:
>
>> Hi All!
>>
>> I just read on slashdot, that M$ published the XML Schema for their
>> new Office 2003 Suite (mostly Word related) including documentation:
>> http://isb.oio.dk/info/news/wordml+published.htm
>>
>> According to
>> http://rep.oio.dk/Microsoft.com/officeschemas/LegalNotice.htm they are
>> even redistributable without fee, but I don't know, if that's relevant
>> for us.
>>
>> I experimented a bit with with it and added a hello world example for
>> Word 2003 ML (see attachments for the results).
>>
>> I don't know if it's worth adding it to CVS, but if you like, feel
>> free to do so ;-)
>
>
>
> Definitely worth adding to CVS. To expedite the process, could you
> submit it to bugzilla as a [PATCH] with diffs to the various files?
Thanks, just added the patch to bugzilla.
> Thanks,
>
> tony
--
Andreas Hochsteger
http://highstick.blogspot.com/
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Tony Collen <co...@umn.edu>.
Andreas Hochsteger wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> I just read on slashdot, that M$ published the XML Schema for their new
> Office 2003 Suite (mostly Word related) including documentation:
> http://isb.oio.dk/info/news/wordml+published.htm
>
> According to
> http://rep.oio.dk/Microsoft.com/officeschemas/LegalNotice.htm they are
> even redistributable without fee, but I don't know, if that's relevant
> for us.
>
> I experimented a bit with with it and added a hello world example for
> Word 2003 ML (see attachments for the results).
>
> I don't know if it's worth adding it to CVS, but if you like, feel free
> to do so ;-)
Definitely worth adding to CVS. To expedite the process, could you submit it to bugzilla as a
[PATCH] with diffs to the various files?
Thanks,
tony
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
> On 17 Nov 2003, at 20:15, Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>>
>>> We need "scan the license" very carefully before take decision.
>>
>>
>> I read it briefly and it basically boils down to "don't mess with us,
>> and we won't mess with you". They do expect you to do a "compatible
>> application" though, so you can't use the grammar for something
>> different than what it's intended to.
>>
>> IMHO, it looks fairly innocent. The new ASF license has some patent
>> verbiage as well, BTW. No need to panic. ;-)
>
>
> But I would suggest to ask licensing@apache.org about this before we
> include any example/code/tutorial/anything that is covered by that.
>
> I agree that the license seems harmless enough. But I also agree with
> Antonio that this smells funny to me: double checking with the ASF
> tops doesn't hurt.
>
> WDYT?
Agreed.
Vadim
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On Nov 24, 2003, at 4:57 PM, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> I'll do it then.
Yep, saw that. Thanks!
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 23 Nov 2003, at 22:31, Steven Noels wrote:
> On Nov 21, 2003, at 9:12 PM, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>
>> But I would suggest to ask licensing@apache.org about this before we
>> include any example/code/tutorial/anything that is covered by that.
>>
>> I agree that the license seems harmless enough. But I also agree with
>> Antonio that this smells funny to me: double checking with the ASF
>> tops doesn't hurt.
>>
>> WDYT?
>
> I honestly don't know - I don't want to bore licensing@, though.
> http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/11/19/OfficeSchemas seems
> kinda reassuring as well.
I'll do it then.
--
Stefano.
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
On Nov 21, 2003, at 9:12 PM, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> But I would suggest to ask licensing@apache.org about this before we
> include any example/code/tutorial/anything that is covered by that.
>
> I agree that the license seems harmless enough. But I also agree with
> Antonio that this smells funny to me: double checking with the ASF
> tops doesn't hurt.
>
> WDYT?
I honestly don't know - I don't want to bore licensing@, though.
http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/11/19/OfficeSchemas seems
kinda reassuring as well.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
On 17 Nov 2003, at 20:15, Steven Noels wrote:
> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>
>> We need "scan the license" very carefully before take decision.
>
> I read it briefly and it basically boils down to "don't mess with us,
> and we won't mess with you". They do expect you to do a "compatible
> application" though, so you can't use the grammar for something
> different than what it's intended to.
>
> IMHO, it looks fairly innocent. The new ASF license has some patent
> verbiage as well, BTW. No need to panic. ;-)
But I would suggest to ask licensing@apache.org about this before we
include any example/code/tutorial/anything that is covered by that.
I agree that the license seems harmless enough. But I also agree with
Antonio that this smells funny to me: double checking with the ASF tops
doesn't hurt.
WDYT?
--
Stefano.
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> We need "scan the license" very carefully before take decision.
I read it briefly and it basically boils down to "don't mess with us,
and we won't mess with you". They do expect you to do a "compatible
application" though, so you can't use the grammar for something
different than what it's intended to.
IMHO, it looks fairly innocent. The new ASF license has some patent
verbiage as well, BTW. No need to panic. ;-)
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source Java & XML An Orixo Member
Read my weblog at http://blogs.cocoondev.org/stevenn/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Gianugo Rabellino dijo:
> Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>> Michael Hartle dijo:
>>
>>>Hmm, basically, this sounds interesting, but according to the legal
>>> notice
>>>
>>>
>>>>There is a separate patent license available to parties interested in
>>>>implementing software programs that can read and write files that
>>>>conform to the Specification. This patent license is available at this
>>>>location:
>>>>http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/format/xmlpatentlicense.asp.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Before adding the Microsoft schema to the CVS and thus probably
>>>implicitly accepting the patent license, some ASF lawyer better scan
>>>this throughly...
>>
>>
>> +1
>>
>> I just simply does not understand why while developers (including me)
>> screaming for the formats descriptions of earlier implementations for
>> years and they does not reply nothing. It was simply propetary. If you
>> don't believe me, see POI project. They have hardtime documenting the MS
>> formats.
>
> Hold, the document format has been documented from quite a few time.
> There were public specs, and infact this was one of the major MS
> arguments ("hey, our file formats are public!"). Now, whether the
> available documentation was crap is a totally different issue. :-)
Anyway, by definition I don't believe in his SWEET help. Sorry, I hope to
be wrong in this. This is why I support this:
We need "scan the license" very carefully before take decision.
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> Michael Hartle dijo:
>
>>Hmm, basically, this sounds interesting, but according to the legal notice
>>
>>
>>>There is a separate patent license available to parties interested in
>>>implementing software programs that can read and write files that
>>>conform to the Specification. This patent license is available at this
>>>location:
>>>http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/format/xmlpatentlicense.asp.
>>>
>>
>>Before adding the Microsoft schema to the CVS and thus probably
>>implicitly accepting the patent license, some ASF lawyer better scan
>>this throughly...
>
>
> +1
>
> I just simply does not understand why while developers (including me)
> screaming for the formats descriptions of earlier implementations for
> years and they does not reply nothing. It was simply propetary. If you
> don't believe me, see POI project. They have hardtime documenting the MS
> formats.
Hold, the document format has been documented from quite a few time.
There were public specs, and infact this was one of the major MS
arguments ("hey, our file formats are public!"). Now, whether the
available documentation was crap is a totally different issue. :-)
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com
Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com
(Now blogging at: http://blogs.cocoondev.org/gianugo/)
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Antonio Gallardo dijo:
> Michael Hartle dijo:
>> Hmm, basically, this sounds interesting, but according to the legal
>> notice
>>
>>> There is a separate patent license available to parties interested in
>>> implementing software programs that can read and write files that
>>> conform to the Specification. This patent license is available at this
>>> location:
>>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/format/xmlpatentlicense.asp.
>>>
>> Before adding the Microsoft schema to the CVS and thus probably
>> implicitly accepting the patent license, some ASF lawyer better scan
>> this throughly...
>
> +1
>
> I just simply does not understand why while developers (including me)
> screaming for the formats descriptions of earlier implementations for
> years and they does not reply nothing. It was simply propetary. If you
> don't believe me, see POI project. They have hardtime documenting the MS
> formats.
>
> Now, they simply release all the formats. It is incredible after all!
> Simply I think there must be a hack. Why they are so SWEET with us, right
> now? I cannot stop thinking in the "Halloween docs" and how they planned
> destroy the OS communities: at that time the proposed MS solution to end
> with us was "the use of propetary formats and protocols". And this is what
> they are doing right now. Did you see the MS advertisement about the super
> protocol that will solve all your current and future problems? This is the
> new wave to put chains on us again.
To support this:
About protocols Game:
http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween1.php#quote9
http://www.opensource.org/halloween/halloween1.php#comment25
About formats:
http://mail.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gne/2001-01/msg00892.html
http://linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2002011100220OP
Link to all Halloween docs:
http://www.opensource.org/halloween/
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
Michael Hartle dijo:
> Hmm, basically, this sounds interesting, but according to the legal notice
>
>> There is a separate patent license available to parties interested in
>> implementing software programs that can read and write files that
>> conform to the Specification. This patent license is available at this
>> location:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/format/xmlpatentlicense.asp.
>>
> Before adding the Microsoft schema to the CVS and thus probably
> implicitly accepting the patent license, some ASF lawyer better scan
> this throughly...
+1
I just simply does not understand why while developers (including me)
screaming for the formats descriptions of earlier implementations for
years and they does not reply nothing. It was simply propetary. If you
don't believe me, see POI project. They have hardtime documenting the MS
formats.
Now, they simply release all the formats. It is incredible after all!
Simply I think there must be a hack. Why they are so SWEET with us, right
now? I cannot stop thinking in the "Halloween docs" and how they planned
destroy the OS communities: at that time the proposed MS solution to end
with us was "the use of propetary formats and protocols". And this is what
they are doing right now. Did you see the MS advertisement about the super
protocol that will solve all your current and future problems? This is the
new wave to put chains on us again.
Please be carefull and think in our project while doing this.
At the end, it make me think that OpenOffice.org is making them run for
the money. :-D
Best Regards,
Antonio Gallardo
Re: M$ publishes Word Document ML / Hello World Sample attached
Posted by Michael Hartle <mh...@hartle-klug.com>.
Hmm, basically, this sounds interesting, but according to the legal notice
> There is a separate patent license available to parties interested in
> implementing software programs that can read and write files that
> conform to the Specification. This patent license is available at this
> location: http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/ip/format/xmlpatentlicense.asp.
>
Before adding the Microsoft schema to the CVS and thus probably
implicitly accepting the patent license, some ASF lawyer better scan
this throughly...
Best regards,
Michael Hartle,
Hartle & Klug Consulting GmbH