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Posted to users@httpd.apache.org by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> on 2009/03/03 16:57:54 UTC
[users@httpd] Websphere / Apache similarities
Hi.
This is posted both to the Apache httpd and Tomcat user lists.
I am taking on a project for which, on the customer side, the installed
HTTP-related software consists of (in the customer's words) "IBM
Websphere 6.1 and the corresponding IBM webserver".
Does anyone on this list have any knowledge of these, in particular
their "compatibility/similarity" with respectively Tomcat v ? and Apache
httpd v ?
My applications make heavy usage, under Apache httpd, of mod_perl 2.x
and several Apache modules like mod_rewrite, mod_setenvif and mod_jk.
The Tomcat side is less critical, as it consists only of a couple of
simple servlets and servlet filters, which should I suppose not create a
major issue.
I have worked a couple of years ago with a Websphere server (don't
recall the version), which at the time seemed to be an almost verbatim
equivalent of Tomcat 4.1, but I don't know what happened since.
Thanks in advance for any information or informative links.
I will Google myself too, but I'm not quite sure at the moment how to
phrase this search.
André
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RE: Websphere / Apache similarities
Posted by Martin Gainty <mg...@hotmail.com>.
Andre-
let me know your thoughts on re-architecting to EJB
JBoss is an all or nothing ..meaning JBoss needs god access to the ports or it wont startup
Sun's App Server called GlassFish is alot more user-friendly with a very intuitive graphical admin interface for installing and configuring components both EJBs and shared-libraries
Martin
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> Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 17:54:02 +0100
> From: aw@ice-sa.com
> To: users@tomcat.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Websphere / Apache similarities
>
> Christopher Schultz wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > André,
> >
> > On 3/3/2009 10:57 AM, André Warnier wrote:
> >> Does anyone on this list have any knowledge of these, in particular
> >> their "compatibility/similarity" with respectively Tomcat v ? and Apache
> >> httpd v ?
> >
> > Tomcat's only real "compatibility" questions are:
> >
> > 1. What servlet/JSP specification are we talking?
> > 2. Need "full" J2EE support (EJB, MQ, etc.)?
> >
> > #1 can be answered here:
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websphere#WebSphere_compatibility_matrix
> >
> > Looks like the equivalent Tomcat version would be 5.5.
> >
> > #2 is also easy: Tomcat does not support that stuff. Chuck's suggestion
> > that JBoss might be a better comparison is a good one. There's also
> > Sun's Glassfish.
> >
> > I'm not sure about Websphere's httpd-like capabilities, but Websphere
> > /is/ Java-based so you'll have all the oddities that you may have heard
> > of when using Perl from Java or having to write filters to do things
> > like mod_rewrite or mod_headers do for you in httpd (urlrewrite, your
> > favorite Java tool, is of course a good option for the former).
> >
> Chris and others, thanks for the above info.
> The following is a quote from Eric Covener on the Apache httpd list. I
> believe he is one of the Apache httpd committers.
>
> quote
>
> WebSphere Application Server is not related to Tomcat, except that
> they implement some of the same standard.
>
> IBM HTTTP Server is Apache HTTP Server-based with notable difference
> of SSL (runtime and module). Versions 6.x are based on 2.0.x and 7.0
> is based on 2.2
>
> ...
> mod_jk would be replaced by the websphere plugin
> mod_perl you'd have to provide yourself and may take a little effort
> to build against IHS.
>
> unquote
>
> So, it looks like :
>
> - Websphere itself is a Java servlet server, unrelated to Tomcat despite
> my mistaken impressions to the contrary, but implementing the same
> servlet specification as Tomcat. It seems to have additional
> functionalities compared to Tomcat, but since I do not understand them
> and think I don't need them, it should be ok.
> I basically wanted to know if I could run a couple of servlets on it
> which I run on Tomcat (answer most probably yes), and run also the
> UrlRewriteFilter (also probably yes) and the Jespa NTLM authentication
> filter (maybe yes, I'll ask ioplex).
> Websphere by itself, like Tomcat, can probably serve static content too.
>
> - in addition to Websphere proper (the servlet server), there is also an
> Apache httpd derived IBM HTTP server in that package. It uses a
> different httpd/servlet server connector than mod_jk
> , and may or may not support mod_perl easily. Which for me means it
> doesn't, since I probably won't have time to work out the kinks.
>
> That is all valuable information, and I thank everyone.
>
>
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Re: Websphere / Apache similarities
Posted by Jess Holle <je...@ptc.com>.
Just to be clear, there are a lot of "should" statements below and other
cases that should use this key word.
JSPs, servlets and filters /should /be portable between servlet engines
supporting the same spec level. In most cases they are. There are,
however, bugs and forgiving behaviors specific to each servlet engine.
Thus you may encounter bugs specific to WebSphere or cases where Tomcat
interpreted the specs in a more forgiving manner than WebSphere, which
generally seems to use the most restrictive interpretation of the spec
where anything is subject to interpretation.
--
Jess Holle
Christopher Schultz wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> André,
>
> On 3/3/2009 11:54 AM, André Warnier wrote:
>
>> - Websphere itself is a Java servlet server, unrelated to Tomcat despite
>> my mistaken impressions to the contrary, but implementing the same
>> servlet specification as Tomcat.
>>
>
> I think this is important enough to point out, so I will: Java servlet
> servers /all/ implement the same servlet specification. Different
> versions of app servers support different versions of the specification,
> though. For instance, Tomcat 5.x implements servlet 2.4 and JSP 2.0
> while Tomcat 6.x implements servlet 2.5 and JSP 2.1.
>
>
>> It seems to have additional
>> functionalities compared to Tomcat, but since I do not understand them
>> and think I don't need them, it should be ok.
>>
>
> That's the case for most people. Those "additional functionalities" are
> the "rest" of the J2EE stuff -- the stuff other than servlets and JSPs.
>
>
>> I basically wanted to know if I could run a couple of servlets on it
>> which I run on Tomcat
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> and run also the UrlRewriteFilter
>>
>
> Yes.
>
>
>> and the Jespa NTLM authentication filter (maybe yes, I'll ask ioplex).
>>
>
> Probably. Basically, if it runs under a servlet container, it should run
> under a J2EE container (the latter is a superset of the former).
>
>
>> Websphere by itself, like Tomcat, can probably serve static content too.
>>
>
> I'm sure it can.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> - -chris
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>
>
Re: Websphere / Apache similarities
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
André,
On 3/3/2009 11:54 AM, André Warnier wrote:
> - Websphere itself is a Java servlet server, unrelated to Tomcat despite
> my mistaken impressions to the contrary, but implementing the same
> servlet specification as Tomcat.
I think this is important enough to point out, so I will: Java servlet
servers /all/ implement the same servlet specification. Different
versions of app servers support different versions of the specification,
though. For instance, Tomcat 5.x implements servlet 2.4 and JSP 2.0
while Tomcat 6.x implements servlet 2.5 and JSP 2.1.
> It seems to have additional
> functionalities compared to Tomcat, but since I do not understand them
> and think I don't need them, it should be ok.
That's the case for most people. Those "additional functionalities" are
the "rest" of the J2EE stuff -- the stuff other than servlets and JSPs.
> I basically wanted to know if I could run a couple of servlets on it
> which I run on Tomcat
Yes.
> and run also the UrlRewriteFilter
Yes.
> and the Jespa NTLM authentication filter (maybe yes, I'll ask ioplex).
Probably. Basically, if it runs under a servlet container, it should run
under a J2EE container (the latter is a superset of the former).
> Websphere by itself, like Tomcat, can probably serve static content too.
I'm sure it can.
Enjoy!
- -chris
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Re: Websphere / Apache similarities
Posted by André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com>.
Christopher Schultz wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> André,
>
> On 3/3/2009 10:57 AM, André Warnier wrote:
>> Does anyone on this list have any knowledge of these, in particular
>> their "compatibility/similarity" with respectively Tomcat v ? and Apache
>> httpd v ?
>
> Tomcat's only real "compatibility" questions are:
>
> 1. What servlet/JSP specification are we talking?
> 2. Need "full" J2EE support (EJB, MQ, etc.)?
>
> #1 can be answered here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websphere#WebSphere_compatibility_matrix
>
> Looks like the equivalent Tomcat version would be 5.5.
>
> #2 is also easy: Tomcat does not support that stuff. Chuck's suggestion
> that JBoss might be a better comparison is a good one. There's also
> Sun's Glassfish.
>
> I'm not sure about Websphere's httpd-like capabilities, but Websphere
> /is/ Java-based so you'll have all the oddities that you may have heard
> of when using Perl from Java or having to write filters to do things
> like mod_rewrite or mod_headers do for you in httpd (urlrewrite, your
> favorite Java tool, is of course a good option for the former).
>
Chris and others, thanks for the above info.
The following is a quote from Eric Covener on the Apache httpd list. I
believe he is one of the Apache httpd committers.
quote
WebSphere Application Server is not related to Tomcat, except that
they implement some of the same standard.
IBM HTTTP Server is Apache HTTP Server-based with notable difference
of SSL (runtime and module). Versions 6.x are based on 2.0.x and 7.0
is based on 2.2
...
mod_jk would be replaced by the websphere plugin
mod_perl you'd have to provide yourself and may take a little effort
to build against IHS.
unquote
So, it looks like :
- Websphere itself is a Java servlet server, unrelated to Tomcat despite
my mistaken impressions to the contrary, but implementing the same
servlet specification as Tomcat. It seems to have additional
functionalities compared to Tomcat, but since I do not understand them
and think I don't need them, it should be ok.
I basically wanted to know if I could run a couple of servlets on it
which I run on Tomcat (answer most probably yes), and run also the
UrlRewriteFilter (also probably yes) and the Jespa NTLM authentication
filter (maybe yes, I'll ask ioplex).
Websphere by itself, like Tomcat, can probably serve static content too.
- in addition to Websphere proper (the servlet server), there is also an
Apache httpd derived IBM HTTP server in that package. It uses a
different httpd/servlet server connector than mod_jk
, and may or may not support mod_perl easily. Which for me means it
doesn't, since I probably won't have time to work out the kinks.
That is all valuable information, and I thank everyone.
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Re: Websphere / Apache similarities
Posted by Christopher Schultz <ch...@christopherschultz.net>.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
André,
On 3/3/2009 10:57 AM, André Warnier wrote:
> Does anyone on this list have any knowledge of these, in particular
> their "compatibility/similarity" with respectively Tomcat v ? and Apache
> httpd v ?
Tomcat's only real "compatibility" questions are:
1. What servlet/JSP specification are we talking?
2. Need "full" J2EE support (EJB, MQ, etc.)?
#1 can be answered here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websphere#WebSphere_compatibility_matrix
Looks like the equivalent Tomcat version would be 5.5.
#2 is also easy: Tomcat does not support that stuff. Chuck's suggestion
that JBoss might be a better comparison is a good one. There's also
Sun's Glassfish.
I'm not sure about Websphere's httpd-like capabilities, but Websphere
/is/ Java-based so you'll have all the oddities that you may have heard
of when using Perl from Java or having to write filters to do things
like mod_rewrite or mod_headers do for you in httpd (urlrewrite, your
favorite Java tool, is of course a good option for the former).
- -chris
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RE: Websphere / Apache similarities
Posted by "Caldarale, Charles R" <Ch...@unisys.com>.
> From: André Warnier [mailto:aw@ice-sa.com]
> Subject: Websphere / Apache similarities
>
> Does anyone on this list have any knowledge of these,
> in particular their "compatibility/similarity" with
> respectively Tomcat v ?
WebSphere is a full Java EE container, whereas Tomcat is not; the closer open source approximation would be JBoss, not Tomcat. WebSphere should be able to handle any servlet-based webapps that do not depend on unique Tomcat capabilities. Can't say anything about how it handles Perl (but then right-thinking people wouldn't want to know :-).
- Chuck
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Re: [users@httpd] Websphere / Apache similarities
Posted by Eric Covener <co...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 10:57 AM, André Warnier <aw...@ice-sa.com> wrote:
> Hi.
>
> This is posted both to the Apache httpd and Tomcat user lists.
>
> I am taking on a project for which, on the customer side, the installed
> HTTP-related software consists of (in the customer's words) "IBM Websphere
> 6.1 and the corresponding IBM webserver".
>
> Does anyone on this list have any knowledge of these, in particular their
> "compatibility/similarity" with respectively Tomcat v ? and Apache httpd v ?
>
WebSphere Application Server is not related to Tomcat, except that
they implement some of the same standard.
IBM HTTTP Server is Apache HTTP Server-based with notable difference
of SSL (runtime and module). Versions 6.x are based on 2.0.x and 7.0
is based on 2.2
> My applications make heavy usage, under Apache httpd, of mod_perl 2.x and
> several Apache modules like mod_rewrite, mod_setenvif and mod_jk.
> The Tomcat side is less critical, as it consists only of a couple of simple
> servlets and servlet filters, which should I suppose not create a major
> issue.
mod_jk would be replaced by the websphere plugin
mod_perl you'd have to provide yourself and may take a little effort
to build against IHS.
--
Eric Covener
covener@gmail.com
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