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Posted to dev@tuscany.apache.org by Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> on 2007/07/06 11:16:47 UTC
Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Hello,
Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by the
OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces? This may
be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the change is
simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles to
progress.
Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the addition of a
few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any other
modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
Thank you...
Regards,
Rajini
Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com>.
Simon,
There is some discussion on allowing OSGi bundles to refer to external jar
files in the Bundle-ClassPath. But as far I know, that is not part of the
OSGi spec yet, and Bundle-ClassPath can only refer to embedded directories
and jar files at the moment.
Thank you...
Regards,
Rajini
On 7/6/07, Simon Nash <na...@hursley.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> Could we do something like we do for tuscany-sca-manifest.jar,
> which is a small jar with no code whose MANIFEST.MF contains a
> Class-Path tag pulling in the other jars that make up the
> Tuscany runtime? Can an OSGi-enabled jar be used as a
> "front end" to a regular jar in this way?
>
> Simon
>
> Rajini Sivaram wrote:
>
> > Venkat,
> >
> > I understand your concern about adding other runtime-specific
> information
> > into SCA. But since we would like to allow OSGi bundles used in SCA
> using <
> > implementation.osgi/> to be also deployed outside of SCA in an OSGi
> > runtime,
> > we have to provide an OSGi bundle containing the SCA annotation APIs.
> This
> > would just end up being a copy of sca-api.jar with the additional bundle
> > manifest entries. Personally, I would prefer to have a single API jar
> file
> > which can be used in all the Java-based runtimes supported by SCA if
> > possible. But if contaminating SCA with OSGi-specific information is a
> > concern, providing a separate jar may be the solution.
> >
> >
> > Thank you...
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rajini
> >
> >
> > On 7/6/07, Venkata Krishnan <fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> This seems ok since you say it does not have side effects for other
> >> consumers. However, I wonder if we can keep doing this for
> accomodating
> >> other runtimes as well - am not sure what the others might want or if
> >> they'd
> >> need something not as simple as this - just postulating here ;-). Or,
> >> seeing it from the other side I wonder if it would be ok to consider
> >> specific inclusions in OSGi bundles to facilitate their handling in a
> SCA
> >> runtime.
> >>
> >> So, from what I am able to comprehend, I'd prefer to avoid this tie in.
> >> Maybe we should also hear what others have to say.
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> - Venkat
> >>
> >> On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hello,
> >> >
> >> > Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used
> by
> >> the
> >> > OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces?
> >> This
> >> > may
> >> > be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the
> >> change
> >> > is
> >> > simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi
> bundles
> >> to
> >> > progress.
> >> >
> >> > Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the
> >> addition of
> >> a
> >> > few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
> >> > other
> >> > modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
> >> >
> >> > Thank you...
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Rajini
> >> >
> >>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by Simon Nash <na...@hursley.ibm.com>.
Could we do something like we do for tuscany-sca-manifest.jar,
which is a small jar with no code whose MANIFEST.MF contains a
Class-Path tag pulling in the other jars that make up the
Tuscany runtime? Can an OSGi-enabled jar be used as a
"front end" to a regular jar in this way?
Simon
Rajini Sivaram wrote:
> Venkat,
>
> I understand your concern about adding other runtime-specific information
> into SCA. But since we would like to allow OSGi bundles used in SCA using <
> implementation.osgi/> to be also deployed outside of SCA in an OSGi
> runtime,
> we have to provide an OSGi bundle containing the SCA annotation APIs. This
> would just end up being a copy of sca-api.jar with the additional bundle
> manifest entries. Personally, I would prefer to have a single API jar file
> which can be used in all the Java-based runtimes supported by SCA if
> possible. But if contaminating SCA with OSGi-specific information is a
> concern, providing a separate jar may be the solution.
>
>
> Thank you...
>
> Regards,
>
> Rajini
>
>
> On 7/6/07, Venkata Krishnan <fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> This seems ok since you say it does not have side effects for other
>> consumers. However, I wonder if we can keep doing this for accomodating
>> other runtimes as well - am not sure what the others might want or if
>> they'd
>> need something not as simple as this - just postulating here ;-). Or,
>> seeing it from the other side I wonder if it would be ok to consider
>> specific inclusions in OSGi bundles to facilitate their handling in a SCA
>> runtime.
>>
>> So, from what I am able to comprehend, I'd prefer to avoid this tie in.
>> Maybe we should also hear what others have to say.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> - Venkat
>>
>> On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by
>> the
>> > OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces?
>> This
>> > may
>> > be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the
>> change
>> > is
>> > simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles
>> to
>> > progress.
>> >
>> > Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the
>> addition of
>> a
>> > few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
>> > other
>> > modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
>> >
>> > Thank you...
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Rajini
>> >
>>
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Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com>.
Venkat,
I understand your concern about adding other runtime-specific information
into SCA. But since we would like to allow OSGi bundles used in SCA using <
implementation.osgi/> to be also deployed outside of SCA in an OSGi runtime,
we have to provide an OSGi bundle containing the SCA annotation APIs. This
would just end up being a copy of sca-api.jar with the additional bundle
manifest entries. Personally, I would prefer to have a single API jar file
which can be used in all the Java-based runtimes supported by SCA if
possible. But if contaminating SCA with OSGi-specific information is a
concern, providing a separate jar may be the solution.
Thank you...
Regards,
Rajini
On 7/6/07, Venkata Krishnan <fo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> This seems ok since you say it does not have side effects for other
> consumers. However, I wonder if we can keep doing this for accomodating
> other runtimes as well - am not sure what the others might want or if
> they'd
> need something not as simple as this - just postulating here ;-). Or,
> seeing it from the other side I wonder if it would be ok to consider
> specific inclusions in OSGi bundles to facilitate their handling in a SCA
> runtime.
>
> So, from what I am able to comprehend, I'd prefer to avoid this tie in.
> Maybe we should also hear what others have to say.
>
> Thanks
>
> - Venkat
>
> On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by
> the
> > OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces? This
> > may
> > be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the
> change
> > is
> > simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles
> to
> > progress.
> >
> > Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the addition of
> a
> > few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
> > other
> > modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
> >
> > Thank you...
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Rajini
> >
>
AW: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by "Wengatz, Nicole" <ni...@siemens.com>.
Hi,
I second the proposal of adding OSGi metadata to the jars.
Some months ago we had a similar discussion on this list, there we said, that we should not generate OSGi Bundles
at build time, but generate OSGi bundles out of the JAR files on the fly. We tried this out (it's easy
for simple bundles/Jars), but for bundles that require other bundles it's difficult. We do not have enough
information for the mapping to OSGi in the scdl files (e.g. should we use required bundle, import etc. ?)
Currently we are talking only about the sca-api.jar, but the next question will be about other jars like
axis, which should be used in the OSGi container as well.
To keep it simple it would propose to generate the required bundles already at build time.
Best regards
Nicole
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Mike Edwards [mailto:mike.edwards.inglenook@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Freitag, 6. Juli 2007 14:45
An: tuscany-dev@ws.apache.org
Betreff: Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Venkat,
I'm in favour of adding OSGi metadata to relevant jars to enable them to
act as OSGi bundles. I think that OSGi is in a different space than
"other runtimes" and that supporting it is a good idea.
Other comments inline...
Yours, Mike
Venkata Krishnan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This seems ok since you say it does not have side effects for other
> consumers. However, I wonder if we can keep doing this for accomodating
> other runtimes as well - am not sure what the others might want or if
> they'd
> need something not as simple as this - just postulating here ;-).
OSGi is less "another runtime" and more "a whole class of runtimes", so
in that sense it is special. OSGi is a framework for organizing
runtimes into logical chunks. Many runtimes use OSGi - the most famous
being Eclipse. I think that we should make it easy for Tuscany SCA (and
SDO for that matter) to fit into a runtime that is using OSGi. To do
that ideally requires us to add some OSGi metadata to relevant jar files.
> Or,
> seeing it from the other side I wonder if it would be ok to consider
> specific inclusions in OSGi bundles to facilitate their handling in a SCA
> runtime.
This is looking at it the other way around. I believe that this is the
work that Rajini and others are already doing in building an
<implementation.osgi .../> for Tuscany, to allow stuff built using OSGi
to work cleanly within Tuscany.
>
> So, from what I am able to comprehend, I'd prefer to avoid this tie in.
> Maybe we should also hear what others have to say.
It is no tie-in. Adding OSGi metadata does not make any of our JARs
unusable by anyone else and it does not force the use of OSGi - and the
handling of the OSGi metadata in the build process can be pretty simple,
I believe.
There is a whole separate question about whether we should consider
building the whole Tuscany SCA runtime using OSGi. There are merits to
that, but also potential downsides - however, we can have a completely
separate debate about that some other time, since it has nothing to do
with Rajini's current proposal.
>
> Thanks
>
> - Venkat
>
> On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by
>> the
>> OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces? This
>> may
>> be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the change
>> is
>> simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles to
>> progress.
>>
>> Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the addition
>> of a
>> few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
>> other
>> modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
>>
>> Thank you...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Rajini
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by Venkata Krishnan <fo...@gmail.com>.
Thanks for that explanation Mike. Not knowing much of OSGi, I was
trying to be a bit conservative. Now convinced, here is my +1 for
this inclusion.
- Venkat
On 7/6/07, Mike Edwards <mi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Venkat,
>
> I'm in favour of adding OSGi metadata to relevant jars to enable them to
> act as OSGi bundles. I think that OSGi is in a different space than
> "other runtimes" and that supporting it is a good idea.
>
> Other comments inline...
>
> Yours, Mike
>
> Venkata Krishnan wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > This seems ok since you say it does not have side effects for other
> > consumers. However, I wonder if we can keep doing this for accomodating
> > other runtimes as well - am not sure what the others might want or if
> > they'd
> > need something not as simple as this - just postulating here ;-).
>
> OSGi is less "another runtime" and more "a whole class of runtimes", so
> in that sense it is special. OSGi is a framework for organizing
> runtimes into logical chunks. Many runtimes use OSGi - the most famous
> being Eclipse. I think that we should make it easy for Tuscany SCA (and
> SDO for that matter) to fit into a runtime that is using OSGi. To do
> that ideally requires us to add some OSGi metadata to relevant jar files.
>
> > Or,
> > seeing it from the other side I wonder if it would be ok to consider
> > specific inclusions in OSGi bundles to facilitate their handling in a SCA
> > runtime.
>
> This is looking at it the other way around. I believe that this is the
> work that Rajini and others are already doing in building an
> <implementation.osgi .../> for Tuscany, to allow stuff built using OSGi
> to work cleanly within Tuscany.
>
> >
> > So, from what I am able to comprehend, I'd prefer to avoid this tie in.
> > Maybe we should also hear what others have to say.
>
> It is no tie-in. Adding OSGi metadata does not make any of our JARs
> unusable by anyone else and it does not force the use of OSGi - and the
> handling of the OSGi metadata in the build process can be pretty simple,
> I believe.
>
> There is a whole separate question about whether we should consider
> building the whole Tuscany SCA runtime using OSGi. There are merits to
> that, but also potential downsides - however, we can have a completely
> separate debate about that some other time, since it has nothing to do
> with Rajini's current proposal.
>
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > - Venkat
> >
> > On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by
> >> the
> >> OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces? This
> >> may
> >> be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the change
> >> is
> >> simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles to
> >> progress.
> >>
> >> Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the addition
> >> of a
> >> few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
> >> other
> >> modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
> >>
> >> Thank you...
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Rajini
> >>
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: tuscany-dev-unsubscribe@ws.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: tuscany-dev-help@ws.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by Mike Edwards <mi...@gmail.com>.
Venkat,
I'm in favour of adding OSGi metadata to relevant jars to enable them to
act as OSGi bundles. I think that OSGi is in a different space than
"other runtimes" and that supporting it is a good idea.
Other comments inline...
Yours, Mike
Venkata Krishnan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This seems ok since you say it does not have side effects for other
> consumers. However, I wonder if we can keep doing this for accomodating
> other runtimes as well - am not sure what the others might want or if
> they'd
> need something not as simple as this - just postulating here ;-).
OSGi is less "another runtime" and more "a whole class of runtimes", so
in that sense it is special. OSGi is a framework for organizing
runtimes into logical chunks. Many runtimes use OSGi - the most famous
being Eclipse. I think that we should make it easy for Tuscany SCA (and
SDO for that matter) to fit into a runtime that is using OSGi. To do
that ideally requires us to add some OSGi metadata to relevant jar files.
> Or,
> seeing it from the other side I wonder if it would be ok to consider
> specific inclusions in OSGi bundles to facilitate their handling in a SCA
> runtime.
This is looking at it the other way around. I believe that this is the
work that Rajini and others are already doing in building an
<implementation.osgi .../> for Tuscany, to allow stuff built using OSGi
to work cleanly within Tuscany.
>
> So, from what I am able to comprehend, I'd prefer to avoid this tie in.
> Maybe we should also hear what others have to say.
It is no tie-in. Adding OSGi metadata does not make any of our JARs
unusable by anyone else and it does not force the use of OSGi - and the
handling of the OSGi metadata in the build process can be pretty simple,
I believe.
There is a whole separate question about whether we should consider
building the whole Tuscany SCA runtime using OSGi. There are merits to
that, but also potential downsides - however, we can have a completely
separate debate about that some other time, since it has nothing to do
with Rajini's current proposal.
>
> Thanks
>
> - Venkat
>
> On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by
>> the
>> OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces? This
>> may
>> be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the change
>> is
>> simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles to
>> progress.
>>
>> Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the addition
>> of a
>> few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
>> other
>> modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
>>
>> Thank you...
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Rajini
>>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by Venkata Krishnan <fo...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
This seems ok since you say it does not have side effects for other
consumers. However, I wonder if we can keep doing this for accomodating
other runtimes as well - am not sure what the others might want or if they'd
need something not as simple as this - just postulating here ;-). Or,
seeing it from the other side I wonder if it would be ok to consider
specific inclusions in OSGi bundles to facilitate their handling in a SCA
runtime.
So, from what I am able to comprehend, I'd prefer to avoid this tie in.
Maybe we should also hear what others have to say.
Thanks
- Venkat
On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by the
> OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces? This
> may
> be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the change
> is
> simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles to
> progress.
>
> Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the addition of a
> few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
> other
> modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
>
> Thank you...
>
> Regards,
>
> Rajini
>
Re: Make sca-api.jar an OSGi bundle
Posted by ant elder <an...@apache.org>.
+1 from me, it seems a useful and harmless thing to do.
...ant
On 7/6/07, Rajini Sivaram <ra...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Could we convert sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle so that bundles used by the
> OSGi implementation type can import SCA annotations and interfaces? This
> may
> be already being addressed in the other OSGi related work, but the change
> is
> simple and will enable the support for SCA annotations in OSGi bundles to
> progress.
>
> Converting sca-api.jar to an OSGi bundle would just need the addition of a
> few entries in the manifest file for the jar, and will not affect any
> other
> modules using the jar file as a regular jar.
>
> Thank you...
>
> Regards,
>
> Rajini
>