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Posted to users@tomcat.apache.org by "Robert P. J. Day" <rp...@crashcourse.ca> on 2011/04/02 11:35:36 UTC
linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
i just noticed that users on a linux/unix system that unload tomcat7
from the zip file are going to have trouble running it since the bin/
scripts are not marked executable in the zip file.
if tomcat7 is unloaded from the tar ball, then everything will work
fine since the scripts are executable. but from the zip file, they
aren't, which means someone who runs "sh bin/startup.sh" will get:
Cannot find bin/catalina.sh
This file is needed to run this program
and that's because of this test in startup.sh:
if [ ! -x "$PRGDIR"/"$EXECUTABLE" ]; then
echo "Cannot find $PRGDIR/$EXECUTABLE"
echo "This file is needed to run this program"
exit 1
fi
the catalina.sh script is there, of course, it's just not executable
so startup.sh (misleadingly) claims it doesn't exist.
experienced linux users will probably notice what's going on
immediately, but others might be thoroughly confused.
rday
--
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
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Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by Konstantin Kolinko <kn...@gmail.com>.
2011/4/2 Robert P. J. Day <rp...@crashcourse.ca>:
>
> i just noticed that users on a linux/unix system that unload tomcat7
> from the zip file are going to have trouble running it since the bin/
> scripts are not marked executable in the zip file.
>
> if tomcat7 is unloaded from the tar ball, then everything will work
> fine since the scripts are executable. but from the zip file, they
> aren't, which means someone who runs "sh bin/startup.sh" will get:
>
> Cannot find bin/catalina.sh
> This file is needed to run this program
>
> and that's because of this test in startup.sh:
>
> if [ ! -x "$PRGDIR"/"$EXECUTABLE" ]; then
> echo "Cannot find $PRGDIR/$EXECUTABLE"
> echo "This file is needed to run this program"
> exit 1
> fi
>
> the catalina.sh script is there, of course, it's just not executable
> so startup.sh (misleadingly) claims it doesn't exist.
>
> experienced linux users will probably notice what's going on
> immediately, but others might be thoroughly confused.
>
I amended the message. Will be in 7.0.13,
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1088179&view=rev
Best regards,
Konstantin Kolinko
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RE: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by Jeffrey Janner <Je...@PolyDyne.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Janner [mailto:Jeffrey.Janner@PolyDyne.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:11 AM
> To: 'Tomcat Users List'
> Subject: RE: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert P. J. Day [mailto:rpjday@crashcourse.ca]
> > Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 7:41 AM
> > To: Tomcat Users List
> > Subject: Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
> >
> > On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Mark Thomas wrote:
> >
> > > On 02/04/2011 18:56, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > > > #2: the advice is still wrong. there is a distinct difference
> > > > between "recommended" and "required". if you choose to defend
> what
> > > > you *imagine* you're reading there, feel free. i, on the other
> > hand,
> > > > am criticizing (for good reason) what is *actually* there.
> > >
> > > Criticism is fine, but remember that this is a community, rather
> > > than a typical vendor/client relationship. If there is something
> > > that you think is wrong, it is at least as much your responsibility
> > > as anyone else's to fix it. If you think there is a better wording
> > > then let folks know what it is. A patch (in diff -u format)
> attached
> > > to a bugzilla issue is ideal although for small changes just the
> new
> > > wording is fine.
> > >
> > > If you want/need help building Tomcat to test your change or
> > > creating a patch just ask here.
> >
> > my apologies, i was a bit snarkier than i had to be. in my
> defense,
> > i'm a long-time proofreader and documentation author so i'm
> > anal-retentive when it comes to precise wording.
> >
>
> And your reading of the word "recommended" comes from this point of
> view, i.e. that of a person whose job it is to apply meticulous,
> dictionary-based interpretations to every word. You have completed
> missed the context in which the word was used -- that of an article
> aimed at computer geeks. Most of us know the implied meaning of the
> word "recommended" in this context, which is:
>
> If you want the least amount of trouble getting this to work, you will
> use this version. Yes the other will probably work, but you might
> experience some issues (headaches) in getting it to work correctly
> without some additional effort.
>
> In fact, that statement is exactly true for Tomcat. Because Tomcat is
> Java-based, it will work no matter which file you download, either the
> tarball or the zip archive. You can download the tarball for your
> Windows system and all the files will be there, but you might have a
> little difficulty extracting them if you don't have a Windows-based
> version of tar (is there one?). So in this case, the recommended
> download is the zip file, since modern windows has a built-in unzip
> utility.
>
> In fact, "recommended" has been a common term, used as above, in the
> computer industry for decades. Look at the "Recommended Configuration"
> for any software package. Some things might be listed as "required"
> but most will be listed as "recommended". We computer jockeys are
> adept at reading the implied meanings in those specs.
> _______________________________________________________________________
Oh, and thanks to Konstantin for fixing the error message.
Yes, it did need better wording (or more detailed checking).
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RE: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by Jeffrey Janner <Je...@PolyDyne.com>.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert P. J. Day [mailto:rpjday@crashcourse.ca]
> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 7:41 AM
> To: Tomcat Users List
> Subject: Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
>
> On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Mark Thomas wrote:
>
> > On 02/04/2011 18:56, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > > #2: the advice is still wrong. there is a distinct difference
> > > between "recommended" and "required". if you choose to defend what
> > > you *imagine* you're reading there, feel free. i, on the other
> hand,
> > > am criticizing (for good reason) what is *actually* there.
> >
> > Criticism is fine, but remember that this is a community, rather
> > than a typical vendor/client relationship. If there is something
> > that you think is wrong, it is at least as much your responsibility
> > as anyone else's to fix it. If you think there is a better wording
> > then let folks know what it is. A patch (in diff -u format) attached
> > to a bugzilla issue is ideal although for small changes just the new
> > wording is fine.
> >
> > If you want/need help building Tomcat to test your change or
> > creating a patch just ask here.
>
> my apologies, i was a bit snarkier than i had to be. in my defense,
> i'm a long-time proofreader and documentation author so i'm
> anal-retentive when it comes to precise wording.
>
And your reading of the word "recommended" comes from this point of view, i.e. that of a person whose job it is to apply meticulous, dictionary-based interpretations to every word. You have completed missed the context in which the word was used -- that of an article aimed at computer geeks. Most of us know the implied meaning of the word "recommended" in this context, which is:
If you want the least amount of trouble getting this to work, you will use this version. Yes the other will probably work, but you might experience some issues (headaches) in getting it to work correctly without some additional effort.
In fact, that statement is exactly true for Tomcat. Because Tomcat is Java-based, it will work no matter which file you download, either the tarball or the zip archive. You can download the tarball for your Windows system and all the files will be there, but you might have a little difficulty extracting them if you don't have a Windows-based version of tar (is there one?). So in this case, the recommended download is the zip file, since modern windows has a built-in unzip utility.
In fact, "recommended" has been a common term, used as above, in the computer industry for decades. Look at the "Recommended Configuration" for any software package. Some things might be listed as "required" but most will be listed as "recommended". We computer jockeys are adept at reading the implied meanings in those specs.
__________________________________________________________________________
Confidentiality Notice: This Transmission (including any attachments) may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender or telephone (512) 343-9100 and delete this transmission from your system.
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Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by "Robert P. J. Day" <rp...@crashcourse.ca>.
On Mon, 4 Apr 2011, Mark Thomas wrote:
> On 02/04/2011 18:56, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > #2: the advice is still wrong. there is a distinct difference
> > between "recommended" and "required". if you choose to defend what
> > you *imagine* you're reading there, feel free. i, on the other hand,
> > am criticizing (for good reason) what is *actually* there.
>
> Criticism is fine, but remember that this is a community, rather
> than a typical vendor/client relationship. If there is something
> that you think is wrong, it is at least as much your responsibility
> as anyone else's to fix it. If you think there is a better wording
> then let folks know what it is. A patch (in diff -u format) attached
> to a bugzilla issue is ideal although for small changes just the new
> wording is fine.
>
> If you want/need help building Tomcat to test your change or
> creating a patch just ask here.
my apologies, i was a bit snarkier than i had to be. in my defense,
i'm a long-time proofreader and documentation author so i'm
anal-retentive when it comes to precise wording.
in any event, just to add something to that issue, since it's fairly
important that linux/unix users download the tar archive rather than
the zip archive for the proper executable bit settings, i would
suggest adding a prominent warning like that on the downloads page
itself:
http://tomcat.apache.org/download-70.cgi
since there doesn't appear to be anything there that warns the user
about that.
rday
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Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by Mark Thomas <ma...@apache.org>.
On 02/04/2011 18:56, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> #2: the advice is still wrong. there is a distinct difference
> between "recommended" and "required". if you choose to defend what
> you *imagine* you're reading there, feel free. i, on the other hand,
> am criticizing (for good reason) what is *actually* there.
Criticism is fine, but remember that this is a community, rather than a
typical vendor/client relationship. If there is something that you think
is wrong, it is at least as much your responsibility as anyone else's to
fix it. If you think there is a better wording then let folks know what
it is. A patch (in diff -u format) attached to a bugzilla issue is ideal
although for small changes just the new wording is fine.
If you want/need help building Tomcat to test your change or creating a
patch just ask here.
Mark
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Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by "Robert P. J. Day" <rp...@crashcourse.ca>.
On Sat, 2 Apr 2011, Pierre Goupil wrote:
> Yes, but the download page says that .tar.gz is recommended for Unix / Linux
> and .zip for Windows, IIRC.
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2 April 2011 10:35, Robert P. J. Day <rp...@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
> > >
> > > i just noticed that users on a linux/unix system that unload tomcat7
> > > from the zip file are going to have trouble running it since the bin/
> > > scripts are not marked executable in the zip file.
> >
> > Unfortunately Zip does not support such attributes.
> >
> > > if tomcat7 is unloaded from the tar ball, then everything will work
> > > fine since the scripts are executable. but from the zip file, they
> > > aren't, which means someone who runs "sh bin/startup.sh" will get:
> > >
> > > Cannot find bin/catalina.sh
> > > This file is needed to run this program
> > >
> > > and that's because of this test in startup.sh:
> > >
> > > if [ ! -x "$PRGDIR"/"$EXECUTABLE" ]; then
> > > echo "Cannot find $PRGDIR/$EXECUTABLE"
> > > echo "This file is needed to run this program"
> > > exit 1
> > > fi
> > >
> > > the catalina.sh script is there, of course, it's just not executable
> > > so startup.sh (misleadingly) claims it doesn't exist.
> >
> > Agreed, the message is misleading.
> >
> > > experienced linux users will probably notice what's going on
> > > immediately, but others might be thoroughly confused.
#1: don't top post.
#2: the advice is still wrong. there is a distinct difference
between "recommended" and "required". if you choose to defend what
you *imagine* you're reading there, feel free. i, on the other hand,
am criticizing (for good reason) what is *actually* there.
rday
--
========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
========================================================================
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Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by Pierre Goupil <go...@gmail.com>.
Yes, but the download page says that .tar.gz is recommended for Unix / Linux
and .zip for Windows, IIRC.
On Sat, Apr 2, 2011 at 12:41 PM, sebb <se...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2 April 2011 10:35, Robert P. J. Day <rp...@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
> >
> > i just noticed that users on a linux/unix system that unload tomcat7
> > from the zip file are going to have trouble running it since the bin/
> > scripts are not marked executable in the zip file.
>
> Unfortunately Zip does not support such attributes.
>
> > if tomcat7 is unloaded from the tar ball, then everything will work
> > fine since the scripts are executable. but from the zip file, they
> > aren't, which means someone who runs "sh bin/startup.sh" will get:
> >
> > Cannot find bin/catalina.sh
> > This file is needed to run this program
> >
> > and that's because of this test in startup.sh:
> >
> > if [ ! -x "$PRGDIR"/"$EXECUTABLE" ]; then
> > echo "Cannot find $PRGDIR/$EXECUTABLE"
> > echo "This file is needed to run this program"
> > exit 1
> > fi
> >
> > the catalina.sh script is there, of course, it's just not executable
> > so startup.sh (misleadingly) claims it doesn't exist.
>
> Agreed, the message is misleading.
>
> > experienced linux users will probably notice what's going on
> > immediately, but others might be thoroughly confused.
> >
> > rday
> >
> > --
> >
> > ========================================================================
> > Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
> > http://crashcourse.ca
> >
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
> > LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
> > ========================================================================
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
--
Sauvez un arbre, mangez un castor !
Re: linux users who unload from zip file can't start tomcat
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 2 April 2011 10:35, Robert P. J. Day <rp...@crashcourse.ca> wrote:
>
> i just noticed that users on a linux/unix system that unload tomcat7
> from the zip file are going to have trouble running it since the bin/
> scripts are not marked executable in the zip file.
Unfortunately Zip does not support such attributes.
> if tomcat7 is unloaded from the tar ball, then everything will work
> fine since the scripts are executable. but from the zip file, they
> aren't, which means someone who runs "sh bin/startup.sh" will get:
>
> Cannot find bin/catalina.sh
> This file is needed to run this program
>
> and that's because of this test in startup.sh:
>
> if [ ! -x "$PRGDIR"/"$EXECUTABLE" ]; then
> echo "Cannot find $PRGDIR/$EXECUTABLE"
> echo "This file is needed to run this program"
> exit 1
> fi
>
> the catalina.sh script is there, of course, it's just not executable
> so startup.sh (misleadingly) claims it doesn't exist.
Agreed, the message is misleading.
> experienced linux users will probably notice what's going on
> immediately, but others might be thoroughly confused.
>
> rday
>
> --
>
> ========================================================================
> Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA
> http://crashcourse.ca
>
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday
> LinkedIn: http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
> ========================================================================
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscribe@tomcat.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: users-help@tomcat.apache.org
>
>
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