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Posted to docs-dev@perl.apache.org by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org> on 2002/01/30 18:37:47 UTC
yet another site's version
OK here is the new site
http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/stories/index.html
based on DocSet-0.10:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/DocSet-0.10.tar.gz
the old sites are here:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site-old
http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site-old-old
Changes:
- improving the link template to strip /./ from ././../
- imporving the template layout and naming
- start using the new bg image
- introduce a wrapper wrap_box for the boxes on the left side
- html source pages now can define a description in the <META> container
- fix a bug where hidden chapters were added to the generated PDFs.
- <PRE> sections are now rendered correctly in NS4 on linux
I've tried the new look-n-feel as presented by Thomas. Plus I've tried
to en-box the items on the left with minimal HTML (one table). If it's
not cool, it's very easy to change things back. just remove the html
from box_wrap template.
Also added the titles to the boxes on the left. Feel free to improve the
colors.
It looks very slick in mozilla, opera and konqueror on linux.
Unfortunately once I've added the table wrap to the ads, Netscape 4.79
started crushing with 'Bus Error' :( It works OK with one ad, but with 3
it crashes. Any ideas why?
Also I cannot figure out why the same box with ads, doesn't get aligned
as boxes on the top. It's shifted left.
If this design is accepted, I'd like to change the right context box not
to be a box. But to take whatever is needed to the right. Try this URI:
http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/docs/2.0/devel/testing/testing.html#Request_and_Response_Methods
now shrink the page's width and scroll a bit down to the long <PRE>
sections. You will see that it slides over the box. If there was no box,
it'll look normal.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> from my tuning of the css for the guide, I think people were happy with:
>
> helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
>
> so I guess:
>
> helvetica, arial, verdana, sans-serif;
>
> will do too.
+1
> > or even better IMO:
> >
> > font-family:verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
> >
> >
> > i actually always thought that helvetica was more a
> > macintosh-system font and that it wasn't default installed
> > on win-platforms? don't know about other platforms.
>
> I don't know. We can try with what you suggest and then fix later if
> people complain or doesn't find find it satisfactory when doing a review
> on various platforms before we go live.
-1, if it aint broke dont fix it :-)
> >>>btw, why do we have a <div>-tag inside a table-cell?
> >>>
> >>why, is this wrong? the sgml checker doesn't say anything about it.
> >>Neither your checker.
> >>
> >
> > theres nothing wrong with the syntax, the question should
> > have been "what is the point of having the <div>-tag there,
> > isn't it just a waste of html?"
> >
> > why not just use something like:
> > <td class="table-cell" align="center">
> > and then apply whatever fonts etc needed for that kind of
> > table cells.
>
> For a simple reason of wrap_box template being a wrapper for many things
> which use different classes. So as a quick solution, I've just thrown
> the <div> in, since it's passes with the content. But I suppose that the
> proper, clean solution, is to pass the class name as an argument to the
> template and let it use this argument as a class for <td>.
sounds pretty cool!
./allan
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
allan wrote:
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>>have we agreed on this as a general fontface?
>>>if not we really ought to - its quite important IMO.
>>>if we have so, we need to talk about sizes ...
>>>
>>you mean font-family? or what?
>>
>
> yes. currently we have
>
> font-family: helvetica, verdana, sans-serif;
>
> maybe it should be something like
>
> font-family: helvetica, arial, verdana, sans-serif;
from my tuning of the css for the guide, I think people were happy with:
helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
so I guess:
helvetica, arial, verdana, sans-serif;
will do too.
> or even better IMO:
>
> font-family:verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
>
>
> i actually always thought that helvetica was more a
> macintosh-system font and that it wasn't default installed
> on win-platforms? don't know about other platforms.
I don't know. We can try with what you suggest and then fix later if
people complain or doesn't find find it satisfactory when doing a review
on various platforms before we go live.
>>>btw, why do we have a <div>-tag inside a table-cell?
>>>
>>why, is this wrong? the sgml checker doesn't say anything about it.
>>Neither your checker.
>>
>
> theres nothing wrong with the syntax, the question should
> have been "what is the point of having the <div>-tag there,
> isn't it just a waste of html?"
>
> why not just use something like:
> <td class="table-cell" align="center">
> and then apply whatever fonts etc needed for that kind of
> table cells.
For a simple reason of wrap_box template being a wrapper for many things
which use different classes. So as a quick solution, I've just thrown
the <div> in, since it's passes with the content. But I suppose that the
proper, clean solution, is to pass the class name as an argument to the
template and let it use this argument as a class for <td>.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
Stas Bekman wrote:
> > have we agreed on this as a general fontface?
> > if not we really ought to - its quite important IMO.
> > if we have so, we need to talk about sizes ...
>
> you mean font-family? or what?
yes. currently we have
font-family: helvetica, verdana, sans-serif;
maybe it should be something like
font-family: helvetica, arial, verdana, sans-serif;
or even better IMO:
font-family:verdana, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
i actually always thought that helvetica was more a
macintosh-system font and that it wasn't default installed
on win-platforms? don't know about other platforms.
> > btw, why do we have a <div>-tag inside a table-cell?
>
> why, is this wrong? the sgml checker doesn't say anything about it.
> Neither your checker.
theres nothing wrong with the syntax, the question should
have been "what is the point of having the <div>-tag there,
isn't it just a waste of html?"
why not just use something like:
<td class="table-cell" align="center">
and then apply whatever fonts etc needed for that kind of
table cells.
./allan
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
allan wrote:
> hi
>
> Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>OK here is the new site
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/stories/index.html
>>
>
> much much better !!
;)
> have we agreed on this as a general fontface?
> if not we really ought to - its quite important IMO.
> if we have so, we need to talk about sizes ...
you mean font-family? or what?
>>It looks very slick in mozilla, opera and konqueror on linux.
>>
>
> likewise on mac. wont comment on ns4 right now though i
> think that is a seperate subject ;-)
>
>
>
>>Unfortunately once I've added the table wrap to the ads, Netscape 4.79
>>started crushing with 'Bus Error' :( It works OK with one ad, but with 3
>>it crashes. Any ideas why?
>>
>
> see VERY IMPORTANT (IMO) errorfile attached for Introduction.Incentives...
> fix the <b> errors in the ad-sections and that browser will
> not crash.
of course, I didn't think about running this check ;0) Now that I've
fixed the broken HTML it's all dandy. I've committed the fixes.
Thanks Allan!
>>Also I cannot figure out why the same box with ads, doesn't get aligned
>>as boxes on the top. It's shifted left.
>>
>
> because the menu have a padding specified in 'menulinks'.
yup :0)
> btw, why do we have a <div>-tag inside a table-cell?
why, is this wrong? the sgml checker doesn't say anything about it.
Neither your checker.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by allan <la...@inet.uni2.dk>.
hi
Stas Bekman wrote:
>
> OK here is the new site
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/stories/index.html
much much better !!
have we agreed on this as a general fontface?
if not we really ought to - its quite important IMO.
if we have so, we need to talk about sizes ...
> It looks very slick in mozilla, opera and konqueror on linux.
likewise on mac. wont comment on ns4 right now though i
think that is a seperate subject ;-)
> Unfortunately once I've added the table wrap to the ads, Netscape 4.79
> started crushing with 'Bus Error' :( It works OK with one ad, but with 3
> it crashes. Any ideas why?
see VERY IMPORTANT (IMO) errorfile attached for Introduction.Incentives...
fix the <b> errors in the ad-sections and that browser will
not crash.
> Also I cannot figure out why the same box with ads, doesn't get aligned
> as boxes on the top. It's shifted left.
because the menu have a padding specified in 'menulinks'.
btw, why do we have a <div>-tag inside a table-cell?
./allan
Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Thomas Klausner wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 01:37:47AM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/stories/index.html
>>
> Just some more comments:
>
> * why are there three dots (...) between page_body and tail?
oops, left-over from experiments. fixed.
> * The "shrinking content box" problem is here again, see
> products/index.html
fixed with nbsp's
> * The logo looks somewhat strange right now, beeing in a white box, while
> the rest of the navbar is not.
yup, we need a transparent logo.
> * what about changing the src-layout of the Success Stories? Althoug the
> stories originally where email, I see no sense in them beeing in a pre-tag
> or containing quoted text.
if you look at some of the stories, they are including replies. So if
you don't go with <pre> it gets all messed up because of << text <<
stuff. So we either have to edit those emails, or leave it <pre>.
> We could still stick the signitures into a pre, though.
that's a non-issue, if the above resolved. You cannot really tell what's
a signature and what not in any case.
> I also find the splitting into "Info" and "The Story" a little bit annoying,
> as it doesn't add any "value", just a useless scrollbar...
Sure, what's the better approach. You know that only make.pl should be
fixed.
> * We could move the title closer to the breadcrumb.
+1
> * I can understand that the size of the downloaded files is displayed as
> "KiB" as in KIloBytes, but why "MiB". Never read that anywhere. I'd go for
> "kB" and "MB" (and than "GB", but I guess we won't need that :-)
well, that's the notation for binary formats. It's a recent standard:
See: http://lwn.net/2002/0103/a/kibi.php3
e.g. see it in action:
http://heroes.sourceforge.net/download.html
But I'm cool with MB, KB as well.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Thomas Klausner <do...@zsi.at>.
Hi!
On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 01:37:47AM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/stories/index.html
Just some more comments:
* why are there three dots (...) between page_body and tail?
* The "shrinking content box" problem is here again, see
products/index.html
* The logo looks somewhat strange right now, beeing in a white box, while
the rest of the navbar is not.
* what about changing the src-layout of the Success Stories? Althoug the
stories originally where email, I see no sense in them beeing in a pre-tag
or containing quoted text.
We could still stick the signitures into a pre, though.
I also find the splitting into "Info" and "The Story" a little bit annoying,
as it doesn't add any "value", just a useless scrollbar...
* We could move the title closer to the breadcrumb.
* I can understand that the size of the downloaded files is displayed as
"KiB" as in KIloBytes, but why "MiB". Never read that anywhere. I'd go for
"kB" and "MB" (and than "GB", but I guess we won't need that :-)
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
>> - start using the new bg image
>>
> The image I supplied was a rather quick hack, I think there some pixels left
> of the dark blue line there is a light grey line. Or is it my LCD?
>
> And I guess a gif makes a better bg-image than I jpeg, the problem is only
> that my GIMP won't touch gif's (caused by Debian beeing very paranoid with
> non-free software...)
You can create a png and then run png2gif
>> - <PRE> sections are now rendered correctly in NS4 on linux
>>
> another way to get this rendered correctly would be to add div tags around
> the pre section (instead of definig a style for pre). Problem is, to do this
> here, we'd need to modify some POD:: module (I think), so it isn't an issue
> I guess.
I'd rather not.
>>I've tried the new look-n-feel as presented by Thomas. Plus I've tried
>>to en-box the items on the left with minimal HTML (one table). If it's
>>not cool, it's very easy to change things back. just remove the html
>>from box_wrap template.
>>
> the table is OK for me.
>
> But if you use a table, we could make the menu somewhat fancier by adding
> borders or some bullets ...
sure, please send the patches!
>>Also added the titles to the boxes on the left. Feel free to improve the
>>colors.
>>
> The headline-color look quite the same as the background color to me. I'll
> try some other colors.
I know, that was a quick hack. I'm not sure what color to use. I wasn't
sure that this is the bg image/color that we are going to use.
BTW, in the menu, do we want to have it as it's now, or may be use only
lowercase for items? i'm starting to like all lowercase ;)
>>If this design is accepted, I'd like to change the right context box not
>>to be a box. But to take whatever is needed to the right. Try this URI:
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/docs/2.0/devel/testing/testing.html#Request_and_Response_Methods
>>
> Hm. You cannot put it /not/ in a box when using CSS. Well, actually you can,
> as I just tried out:
> div.rightbox {
> margin-left:190px;
> }
>
> But still the pre-background won't go as far as it should but stop some
> pixels left of the browser border, causing the text to flow over...
:( So no solution for that?
Also need ideas on how to solve the NS4 crash. Hint: it crashes on the
ads section. First of all it won't render the rest of the page if you
put a little into that last ad box, but if you put all three books it
goes down.
_____________________________________________________________________
Stas Bekman JAm_pH -- Just Another mod_perl Hacker
http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
http://singlesheaven.com http://perl.apache.org http://perlmonth.com/
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Thomas Klausner <do...@zsi.at>.
Hi!
On Thu, Jan 31, 2002 at 01:37:47AM +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
Great!
> - start using the new bg image
The image I supplied was a rather quick hack, I think there some pixels left
of the dark blue line there is a light grey line. Or is it my LCD?
And I guess a gif makes a better bg-image than I jpeg, the problem is only
that my GIMP won't touch gif's (caused by Debian beeing very paranoid with
non-free software...)
> - introduce a wrapper wrap_box for the boxes on the left side
nice.
> - <PRE> sections are now rendered correctly in NS4 on linux
another way to get this rendered correctly would be to add div tags around
the pre section (instead of definig a style for pre). Problem is, to do this
here, we'd need to modify some POD:: module (I think), so it isn't an issue
I guess.
> I've tried the new look-n-feel as presented by Thomas. Plus I've tried
> to en-box the items on the left with minimal HTML (one table). If it's
> not cool, it's very easy to change things back. just remove the html
> from box_wrap template.
the table is OK for me.
But if you use a table, we could make the menu somewhat fancier by adding
borders or some bullets ...
> Also added the titles to the boxes on the left. Feel free to improve the
> colors.
The headline-color look quite the same as the background color to me. I'll
try some other colors.
> Also I cannot figure out why the same box with ads, doesn't get aligned
> as boxes on the top. It's shifted left.
That's because the two navboxes are surrounded by div tags ('menumain' and
'menulinks'), but the ad's are not. Thus, they don't get the padding:5px
specified in 'menu*'.
You used the 'ad' div /inside/ the table cell, so the padding aplies there.
I'll send a patch.
> If this design is accepted, I'd like to change the right context box not
> to be a box. But to take whatever is needed to the right. Try this URI:
> http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/docs/2.0/devel/testing/testing.html#Request_and_Response_Methods
Hm. You cannot put it /not/ in a box when using CSS. Well, actually you can,
as I just tried out:
div.rightbox {
margin-left:190px;
}
But still the pre-background won't go as far as it should but stop some
pixels left of the browser border, causing the text to flow over...
--
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O_xyderkes | neu: Arbeitsplatz |
M_echanen | http://domm.zsi.at/d/d162.html |
M_asteuei +--------------------------------+
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Stas Bekman <st...@stason.org>.
Bill Moseley wrote:
> At 01:37 AM 01/31/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>
>>OK here is the new site
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/stories/index.html
>>based on DocSet-0.10:
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/DocSet-0.10.tar.gz
>>
>
> Stas, is that DocSet needed in addition to what in the modperl-docs cvs?
nope, the one in cvs is in sync with that release. I've mentioned it
just in case you want it for other things :)
> I like that design.
:)
>>Unfortunately once I've added the table wrap to the ads, Netscape 4.79
>>started crushing with 'Bus Error' :( It works OK with one ad, but with 3
>>it crashes. Any ideas why?
>>
>
> And rendering is not a problem in NS4.0x; it simply crashes, too!
I think it cannot cope with <div> inside <table> inside <div> with
images inside.
> Are you willing to do two sites, and rewrite URLs based on client? e.g.
> "downgrade" to tables for 4.x clients?
Nope, but we are willing to find a solution that won't crash NS.
>>If this design is accepted, I'd like to change the right context box not
>>to be a box. But to take whatever is needed to the right. Try this URI:
>>http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/docs/2.0/devel/testing/testing.htm
>>
> l#Request_and_Response_Methods
>
>>now shrink the page's width and scroll a bit down to the long <PRE>
>>sections. You will see that it slides over the box. If there was no box,
>>it'll look normal.
>>
>
> Not sure I follow. What I do notice is that the prev|up|next widget if off
> the page to the right. Is there a solution other than a fixed width table
> or javascript, that would still allow <pre> to stay wide, yet have the
> navigation widget be on the upper right of the window?
Is something different now regarding the prev|next? Or are you talking
about narrowing the page?
_____________________________________________________________________
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http://stason.org/ mod_perl Guide http://perl.apache.org/guide
mailto:stas@stason.org http://ticketmaster.com http://apacheweek.com
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Re: yet another site's version
Posted by Bill Moseley <mo...@hank.org>.
At 01:37 AM 01/31/02 +0800, Stas Bekman wrote:
>OK here is the new site
>http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/stories/index.html
>based on DocSet-0.10:
>http://www.apache.org/~stas/DocSet-0.10.tar.gz
Stas, is that DocSet needed in addition to what in the modperl-docs cvs?
I like that design.
>Unfortunately once I've added the table wrap to the ads, Netscape 4.79
>started crushing with 'Bus Error' :( It works OK with one ad, but with 3
>it crashes. Any ideas why?
And rendering is not a problem in NS4.0x; it simply crashes, too!
Are you willing to do two sites, and rewrite URLs based on client? e.g.
"downgrade" to tables for 4.x clients?
>Also I cannot figure out why the same box with ads, doesn't get aligned
>as boxes on the top. It's shifted left.
You are not using tables? ;)
>If this design is accepted, I'd like to change the right context box not
>to be a box. But to take whatever is needed to the right. Try this URI:
>http://www.apache.org/~stas/modperl-site/docs/2.0/devel/testing/testing.htm
l#Request_and_Response_Methods
>
>now shrink the page's width and scroll a bit down to the long <PRE>
>sections. You will see that it slides over the box. If there was no box,
>it'll look normal.
Not sure I follow. What I do notice is that the prev|up|next widget if off
the page to the right. Is there a solution other than a fixed width table
or javascript, that would still allow <pre> to stay wide, yet have the
navigation widget be on the upper right of the window?
--
Bill Moseley
mailto:moseley@hank.org
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