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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> on 2013/10/21 21:59:53 UTC
Submission for consultants page
<consultant>
<name>IBM</name>
<country>Global</country>
<practice>Development</practice>
<practice>Support</practice>
<practice>Training</practice>
<description>IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice offers expert
technical support for Apache OpenOffice. With trusted IBM support,
you can confidently deploy Apache OpenOffice for your demanding
desktop office document requirements.</description>
<website>http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/us/en/ibm-support-for-apache-openoffice</website>
</consultant>
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>.
Am 21.10.13 21:59, schrieb Rob Weir:
> <consultant>
> <name>IBM</name>
> <country>Global</country>
> <practice>Development</practice>
> <practice>Support</practice>
> <practice>Training</practice>
> <description>IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice offers expert
> technical support for Apache OpenOffice. With trusted IBM support,
> you can confidently deploy Apache OpenOffice for your demanding
> desktop office document requirements.</description>
> <website>http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/us/en/ibm-support-for-apache-openoffice</website>
> </consultant>
+1 for me
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Rob Weir wrote:
> In the context of the page it makes full acknowledgement of where
> Apache OpenOffice is from.
The page footer, or the last paragraph of the text, could still explain
that Apache OpenOffice is a trademark of the Apache Software Foundation.
This is not confusing to users and won't harm.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com>.
Drat - I'm so far behind.... *laughing*..
The answer is no. I did just download it however and will look when I get
home.
Thanks again
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:28 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I have no idea. Should we?
> >
> >
> >
> > Sorry for the delay.
> >
> > Well, it rather depends on what you are trying to do - I doubt that in
> this
> > instance it would make much sense. Anyhow, it is rather a different
> subject
> > from the listing itself, and on that note (the listing) I did not mean to
> > say I had objection.
> >
> > Change of Subject - I note, or so it appears, that Symphony is no longer
> > available or at least not for download. There where a few ancillary
> > artifacts, some key board shortcut sheets and a few small tutorials which
> > had been available from the old Symphony site and seems to have no links
> to
> > the newer web page - any chance you employer would allow someone to
> update
> > those for AOO 4 and make them available on the wiki here? [perhaps I
> should
> > of broken that into a separate thread]
> >
>
> Did you see the stuff that was already contributed?
>
> Look inside:
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/symphony/trunk/help/com.ibm.symphony.help.en/doc.zip
>
> -Rob
>
>
> > Thanks for all your work,
> >
> > //drew
>
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>
>
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I have no idea. Should we?
>
>
>
> Sorry for the delay.
>
> Well, it rather depends on what you are trying to do - I doubt that in this
> instance it would make much sense. Anyhow, it is rather a different subject
> from the listing itself, and on that note (the listing) I did not mean to
> say I had objection.
>
> Change of Subject - I note, or so it appears, that Symphony is no longer
> available or at least not for download. There where a few ancillary
> artifacts, some key board shortcut sheets and a few small tutorials which
> had been available from the old Symphony site and seems to have no links to
> the newer web page - any chance you employer would allow someone to update
> those for AOO 4 and make them available on the wiki here? [perhaps I should
> of broken that into a separate thread]
>
Did you see the stuff that was already contributed?
Look inside: https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/openoffice/symphony/trunk/help/com.ibm.symphony.help.en/doc.zip
-Rob
> Thanks for all your work,
>
> //drew
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> I have no idea. Should we?
Sorry for the delay.
Well, it rather depends on what you are trying to do - I doubt that in this
instance it would make much sense. Anyhow, it is rather a different subject
from the listing itself, and on that note (the listing) I did not mean to
say I had objection.
Change of Subject - I note, or so it appears, that Symphony is no longer
available or at least not for download. There where a few ancillary
artifacts, some key board shortcut sheets and a few small tutorials which
had been available from the old Symphony site and seems to have no links to
the newer web page - any chance you employer would allow someone to update
those for AOO 4 and make them available on the wiki here? [perhaps I should
of broken that into a separate thread]
Thanks for all your work,
//drew
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:33 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Howdy Rob,
>>
>> Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a la:
>> "IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
>>
>
> I've put in a request to get that page updated.
>
Just to close this out, I can see that the page has now been updated:
http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/ibm-support-for-apache-openoffice
Regards,
-Rob
>> A couple of quick questions if I may.
>> Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
>> that was the plan in the past.
>>
>
> It is certainly possible to combine IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice
> along with a license for IBM Connections or SmartCloud. In that case
> our Connector [1] would be supported as well.
>
> We also have an integration solution for OpenOffice and IBM Enterprise
> Content Management [2].
>
> We're exploring other integrations as well.
>
> That said, if a customer wants help with a large, complex, standalone
> deployment of Apache OpenOffice, we'll talk with them. That was also
> the case with Symphony.
>
>> Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States GSA
>> registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last few
>> years.
>
> I have no idea. Should we?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
> [1] http://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/ibm-connections-connector-apache-openoffice
>
> [2] http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/information-agenda/catalog/profiles/OpenOffice_Integration_IBM_ECM.html
>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> //drew
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
>>
>>> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>>
>>> > >
>>> > > Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
>>> > necessary formalities.
>>> > >
>>> > > Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
>>> > relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
>>> > >
>>> > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
>>> > >
>>> > > and not only:
>>> > >
>>> > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> > I think that would be more confusing.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
>>> trademark rights of Apache.
>>> Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
>>>
>>> > It would suggest the entire
>>> > name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
>>> > letters.
>>>
>>> It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
>>> text, for example in:
>>>
>>> "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
>>> Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
>>>
>>> where IBM is already marked with ®.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Jörg
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>>
>>>
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy Rob,
>
> Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a la:
> "IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
>
I've put in a request to get that page updated.
> A couple of quick questions if I may.
> Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
> that was the plan in the past.
>
It is certainly possible to combine IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice
along with a license for IBM Connections or SmartCloud. In that case
our Connector [1] would be supported as well.
We also have an integration solution for OpenOffice and IBM Enterprise
Content Management [2].
We're exploring other integrations as well.
That said, if a customer wants help with a large, complex, standalone
deployment of Apache OpenOffice, we'll talk with them. That was also
the case with Symphony.
> Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States GSA
> registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last few
> years.
I have no idea. Should we?
Regards,
-Rob
[1] http://extensions.openoffice.org/en/project/ibm-connections-connector-apache-openoffice
[2] http://www-01.ibm.com/software/data/information-agenda/catalog/profiles/OpenOffice_Integration_IBM_ECM.html
> Thanks,
>
> //drew
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
>
>> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>
>> > >
>> > > Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
>> > necessary formalities.
>> > >
>> > > Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
>> > relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
>> > >
>> > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
>> > >
>> > > and not only:
>> > >
>> > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
>> > >
>> >
>> > I think that would be more confusing.
>>
>> Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
>> trademark rights of Apache.
>> Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
>>
>> > It would suggest the entire
>> > name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
>> > letters.
>>
>> It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
>> text, for example in:
>>
>> "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
>> Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
>>
>> where IBM is already marked with ®.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Jörg
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
>
>> Am 10/23/2013 12:04 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Drew Jensen<dr...@gmail.com>
>>> >wrote:
>>>
>>> Howdy Rob,
>>>>
>>>> Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a
>>>> la:
>>>> "IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
>>>>
>>>>
>>> FYI on the existing consultant entries
>>> http://www.openoffice.org/**bizdev/consultants.html<http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html>
>>>
>>> none have the TM after Apache OpenOffice, and some don't even have
>>> "Apache"
>>> in front of OpenOffice. So...not sure if we should manually correct these
>>> already approved submissions.
>>>
>>> Of course, it's our site so we can do what we want. My point is we should
>>> be consistent in how OpenOffice is presented in them -- with "Apache" or
>>> not; with TM after or not.
>>>
>>
>> I also think that webpage should show consistent information. As the
>> existing items don't have too much indication about trademarks & co., IMHO
>> we can also abstain with regards to Rob's suggestion.
>>
>> Furthermore:
>> The top headline says it all: ;-)
>>
>> Apache OpenOffice Consultants
>>
>> So, I think the point #4 on "http://www.openoffice.org/**
>> bizdev/consultant-submission.**html<http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html>"
>> can be eased a bit as it is clear enough that the items are with and for
>> our project resp. product.
>>
>> Marcus
>
>
> So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
> implement this addition, without further changes, anyway? I'll be happy to
> take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
>
I've put in a request to update the IBM web page to address some of
the comments. I don't have direct access to it, but it should be
updated sometime next week. Unless anyone has additional concerns
beyond the trademark attribution it should be OK to go forward.
-Rob
>
>>
>>
>>
>> A couple of quick questions if I may.
>>>> Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
>>>> that was the plan in the past.
>>>>
>>>> Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States
>>>> GSA
>>>> registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last
>>>> few
>>>> years.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> //drew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt<jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> necessary formalities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice<TM>"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> and not only:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think that would be more confusing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
>>>>> trademark rights of Apache.
>>>>> Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
>>>>>
>>>>> It would suggest the entire
>>>>>> name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
>>>>>> letters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
>>>>> text, for example in:
>>>>>
>>>>> "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
>>>>> Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
>>>>>
>>>>> where IBM is already marked with ®.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>> Jörg
>>>>>
>>>>
>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Oct 29, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt <
> joesch@j-m-schmidt.de>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Hello *,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we
> ready to
> >> >> >> > implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
> >> >> >> > I'll be happy to
> >> >> >> > take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4"
> >> should
> >> >> be
> >> >> >> changed.
> >> >> >> Should he ever be changed or what says:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
> >> >> >> > Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can
> >> change
> >> >> >> my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Greetings,
> >> >> >> Jörg
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > My take on this discussion so far (and I am certainly NOT the
> >> definitive
> >> >> > judge on this):
> >> >> >
> >> >> > * there is the listing on the consultants page itself:
> >> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I wrote that page, so it might not be too presumptuous if I say what
> I
> >> >> meant when I wrote it ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> The guideline is that the 3rd party pages must "respect ASF
> >> >> Trademarks". This is vague, but intentionally so. I think we'll
> all
> >> >> be more accurate judges of what is wrong when we see it than we are
> >> >> predictors of all things that could possibly be wrong. So the
> >> >> discretion is given to the PMC to take this on a case-by-case basis.
> >> >> We should be looking at each submission and their linked websites as
> a
> >> >> whole.
> >> >>
> >> >> The kinds of abuses I had in mind were mainly pages that implied that
> >> >> the services were endorsed or affiliated with the ASF. This is much
> >> >> more than technicalities of whether or not a (TM) symbol is used.
> For
> >> >> example, a page that calls itself "Apache OpenOffice (TM) Consulting
> >> >> Group" would *not* be OK. We don't want our trademarks used as
> >> >> adjectives, since that suggests an affiliation.
> >> >>
> >> >> I also had in mind that we might need to correct names where they are
> >> >> misstated, e.g., "Apache Open Office", "Apache Openoffice",
> >> >> "OpenOffice.org", etc.
> >> >>
> >> >> Regards,
> >> >>
> >> >> -Rob
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > OK -- I think we should go ahead with this. Unfortunately, testing
> with
> >> my
> >> > private web area on my box, my server is balking at the ".xsl" page
> that
> >> > goes with this...so...
> >> >
> >>
> >> The command line should look something like:
> >>
> >> xsltproc -o consultants.html --stringparam locale en to-html.xsl
> >> consultants.xml
> >>
> >> You can switch locales by setting different values via stringparam
> >> parameter.
> >>
> >> Other XSLT engines should work, but the command line would be different.
> >>
> >
> > ok, that's not what I was using...this seems to work and not complain
> about
> > the stylesheet being invalid.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > Rob, since you have always taken care of this in the past, I would be
> >> fine
> >> > and dandy with you committing this change -- wearing your Apache hat
> >> > instead of your IBM one of course. ;)
> >> >
> >>
> >> Sure, I can do it next week when I am at my desk.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >
> > Anyway, I was just about to do this when I see that there is no "contact"
> > info -- e-mail, phone etc. -- supplied with this listing as with the
> > others. I see there's a phone number supplied on the website, so maybe
> just
> > include that?
> >
>
> If you include the phone number you would also want to include the
> "priority code" that is on the webpage. Or don't have a phone
> number.
>
> -Rob
>
I felt odd about suggesting this at all -- but it just looked a bit out of
place with the other listings we have without some contact information.
So, with your OK, I will add the phone number and priority code and get on
with this. Of course, it can always be changed.
>
> >
> >>
> >> > So sorry about this -- I guess it's time for more of us to give this
> >> area a
> >> > bit more attention.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> > concerning the actual content we are discussing. This does not
> have a
> >> >> (TM)
> >> >> > after Apache OpenOffice. I thought this was the original cause of
> >> >> objection.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > And, we can see from the listings on the consultants page that we
> did
> >> not
> >> >> > enforce a (TM) after Apache OpenOffice on the consultants page.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > * there are the actual websites of the consultants, like yours, and
> >> this
> >> >> > submitted one up for consideration.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It seems there is more concern to enforce a (TM) symbol after
> Apache
> >> >> > OpenOffice for these third party websites. However, this is not
> >> >> something
> >> >> > required by Apache.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > See:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The important factor is referencing OpenOffice as "Apache
> OpenOffice",
> >> >> and
> >> >> > not the use the of the (TM) after the name.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The website, http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html, seems to have
> all
> >> >> bases
> >> >> > covered near as I can tell -- correct naming and use of (TM).
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> > MzK
> >> >> >
> >> >> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> >> >> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> >> >> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > MzK
> >> >
> >> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> >> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> >> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > MzK
> >
> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
-- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hello *,
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
>> >> >> > implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
>> >> >> > I'll be happy to
>> >> >> > take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4"
>> should
>> >> be
>> >> >> changed.
>> >> >> Should he ever be changed or what says:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
>> >> >> > Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can
>> change
>> >> >> my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Greetings,
>> >> >> Jörg
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> > My take on this discussion so far (and I am certainly NOT the
>> definitive
>> >> > judge on this):
>> >> >
>> >> > * there is the listing on the consultants page itself:
>> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I wrote that page, so it might not be too presumptuous if I say what I
>> >> meant when I wrote it ;-)
>> >>
>> >> The guideline is that the 3rd party pages must "respect ASF
>> >> Trademarks". This is vague, but intentionally so. I think we'll all
>> >> be more accurate judges of what is wrong when we see it than we are
>> >> predictors of all things that could possibly be wrong. So the
>> >> discretion is given to the PMC to take this on a case-by-case basis.
>> >> We should be looking at each submission and their linked websites as a
>> >> whole.
>> >>
>> >> The kinds of abuses I had in mind were mainly pages that implied that
>> >> the services were endorsed or affiliated with the ASF. This is much
>> >> more than technicalities of whether or not a (TM) symbol is used. For
>> >> example, a page that calls itself "Apache OpenOffice (TM) Consulting
>> >> Group" would *not* be OK. We don't want our trademarks used as
>> >> adjectives, since that suggests an affiliation.
>> >>
>> >> I also had in mind that we might need to correct names where they are
>> >> misstated, e.g., "Apache Open Office", "Apache Openoffice",
>> >> "OpenOffice.org", etc.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> -Rob
>> >>
>> >
>> > OK -- I think we should go ahead with this. Unfortunately, testing with
>> my
>> > private web area on my box, my server is balking at the ".xsl" page that
>> > goes with this...so...
>> >
>>
>> The command line should look something like:
>>
>> xsltproc -o consultants.html --stringparam locale en to-html.xsl
>> consultants.xml
>>
>> You can switch locales by setting different values via stringparam
>> parameter.
>>
>> Other XSLT engines should work, but the command line would be different.
>>
>
> ok, that's not what I was using...this seems to work and not complain about
> the stylesheet being invalid.
>
>
>>
>> > Rob, since you have always taken care of this in the past, I would be
>> fine
>> > and dandy with you committing this change -- wearing your Apache hat
>> > instead of your IBM one of course. ;)
>> >
>>
>> Sure, I can do it next week when I am at my desk.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
> Anyway, I was just about to do this when I see that there is no "contact"
> info -- e-mail, phone etc. -- supplied with this listing as with the
> others. I see there's a phone number supplied on the website, so maybe just
> include that?
>
If you include the phone number you would also want to include the
"priority code" that is on the webpage. Or don't have a phone
number.
-Rob
>
>>
>> > So sorry about this -- I guess it's time for more of us to give this
>> area a
>> > bit more attention.
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> > concerning the actual content we are discussing. This does not have a
>> >> (TM)
>> >> > after Apache OpenOffice. I thought this was the original cause of
>> >> objection.
>> >> >
>> >> > And, we can see from the listings on the consultants page that we did
>> not
>> >> > enforce a (TM) after Apache OpenOffice on the consultants page.
>> >> >
>> >> > * there are the actual websites of the consultants, like yours, and
>> this
>> >> > submitted one up for consideration.
>> >> >
>> >> > It seems there is more concern to enforce a (TM) symbol after Apache
>> >> > OpenOffice for these third party websites. However, this is not
>> >> something
>> >> > required by Apache.
>> >> >
>> >> > See:
>> >> >
>> >> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
>> >> >
>> >> > The important factor is referencing OpenOffice as "Apache OpenOffice",
>> >> and
>> >> > not the use the of the (TM) after the name.
>> >> >
>> >> > The website, http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html, seems to have all
>> >> bases
>> >> > covered near as I can tell -- correct naming and use of (TM).
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> >
>> >>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> > MzK
>> >> >
>> >> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>> >> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>> >> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > MzK
>> >
>> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Hello *,
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
> >> >>
> >> >> > So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
> >> >> > implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
> >> >> > I'll be happy to
> >> >> > take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
> >> >>
> >> >> Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
> >> >>
> >> >> The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4"
> should
> >> be
> >> >> changed.
> >> >> Should he ever be changed or what says:
> >> >>
> >> >> > ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
> >> >> > Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can
> change
> >> >> my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Greetings,
> >> >> Jörg
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> > My take on this discussion so far (and I am certainly NOT the
> definitive
> >> > judge on this):
> >> >
> >> > * there is the listing on the consultants page itself:
> >> > http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> I wrote that page, so it might not be too presumptuous if I say what I
> >> meant when I wrote it ;-)
> >>
> >> The guideline is that the 3rd party pages must "respect ASF
> >> Trademarks". This is vague, but intentionally so. I think we'll all
> >> be more accurate judges of what is wrong when we see it than we are
> >> predictors of all things that could possibly be wrong. So the
> >> discretion is given to the PMC to take this on a case-by-case basis.
> >> We should be looking at each submission and their linked websites as a
> >> whole.
> >>
> >> The kinds of abuses I had in mind were mainly pages that implied that
> >> the services were endorsed or affiliated with the ASF. This is much
> >> more than technicalities of whether or not a (TM) symbol is used. For
> >> example, a page that calls itself "Apache OpenOffice (TM) Consulting
> >> Group" would *not* be OK. We don't want our trademarks used as
> >> adjectives, since that suggests an affiliation.
> >>
> >> I also had in mind that we might need to correct names where they are
> >> misstated, e.g., "Apache Open Office", "Apache Openoffice",
> >> "OpenOffice.org", etc.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> -Rob
> >>
> >
> > OK -- I think we should go ahead with this. Unfortunately, testing with
> my
> > private web area on my box, my server is balking at the ".xsl" page that
> > goes with this...so...
> >
>
> The command line should look something like:
>
> xsltproc -o consultants.html --stringparam locale en to-html.xsl
> consultants.xml
>
> You can switch locales by setting different values via stringparam
> parameter.
>
> Other XSLT engines should work, but the command line would be different.
>
ok, that's not what I was using...this seems to work and not complain about
the stylesheet being invalid.
>
> > Rob, since you have always taken care of this in the past, I would be
> fine
> > and dandy with you committing this change -- wearing your Apache hat
> > instead of your IBM one of course. ;)
> >
>
> Sure, I can do it next week when I am at my desk.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
Anyway, I was just about to do this when I see that there is no "contact"
info -- e-mail, phone etc. -- supplied with this listing as with the
others. I see there's a phone number supplied on the website, so maybe just
include that?
>
> > So sorry about this -- I guess it's time for more of us to give this
> area a
> > bit more attention.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> > concerning the actual content we are discussing. This does not have a
> >> (TM)
> >> > after Apache OpenOffice. I thought this was the original cause of
> >> objection.
> >> >
> >> > And, we can see from the listings on the consultants page that we did
> not
> >> > enforce a (TM) after Apache OpenOffice on the consultants page.
> >> >
> >> > * there are the actual websites of the consultants, like yours, and
> this
> >> > submitted one up for consideration.
> >> >
> >> > It seems there is more concern to enforce a (TM) symbol after Apache
> >> > OpenOffice for these third party websites. However, this is not
> >> something
> >> > required by Apache.
> >> >
> >> > See:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
> >> >
> >> > The important factor is referencing OpenOffice as "Apache OpenOffice",
> >> and
> >> > not the use the of the (TM) after the name.
> >> >
> >> > The website, http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html, seems to have all
> >> bases
> >> > covered near as I can tell -- correct naming and use of (TM).
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > MzK
> >> >
> >> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> >> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> >> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > MzK
> >
> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
-- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hello *,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
>> >>
>> >> > So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
>> >> > implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
>> >> > I'll be happy to
>> >> > take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
>> >>
>> >> Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
>> >>
>> >> The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4" should
>> be
>> >> changed.
>> >> Should he ever be changed or what says:
>> >>
>> >> > ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
>> >> > Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can change
>> >> my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Greetings,
>> >> Jörg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> > My take on this discussion so far (and I am certainly NOT the definitive
>> > judge on this):
>> >
>> > * there is the listing on the consultants page itself:
>> > http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>> >
>>
>> I wrote that page, so it might not be too presumptuous if I say what I
>> meant when I wrote it ;-)
>>
>> The guideline is that the 3rd party pages must "respect ASF
>> Trademarks". This is vague, but intentionally so. I think we'll all
>> be more accurate judges of what is wrong when we see it than we are
>> predictors of all things that could possibly be wrong. So the
>> discretion is given to the PMC to take this on a case-by-case basis.
>> We should be looking at each submission and their linked websites as a
>> whole.
>>
>> The kinds of abuses I had in mind were mainly pages that implied that
>> the services were endorsed or affiliated with the ASF. This is much
>> more than technicalities of whether or not a (TM) symbol is used. For
>> example, a page that calls itself "Apache OpenOffice (TM) Consulting
>> Group" would *not* be OK. We don't want our trademarks used as
>> adjectives, since that suggests an affiliation.
>>
>> I also had in mind that we might need to correct names where they are
>> misstated, e.g., "Apache Open Office", "Apache Openoffice",
>> "OpenOffice.org", etc.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
> OK -- I think we should go ahead with this. Unfortunately, testing with my
> private web area on my box, my server is balking at the ".xsl" page that
> goes with this...so...
>
The command line should look something like:
xsltproc -o consultants.html --stringparam locale en to-html.xsl consultants.xml
You can switch locales by setting different values via stringparam parameter.
Other XSLT engines should work, but the command line would be different.
> Rob, since you have always taken care of this in the past, I would be fine
> and dandy with you committing this change -- wearing your Apache hat
> instead of your IBM one of course. ;)
>
Sure, I can do it next week when I am at my desk.
Regards,
-Rob
> So sorry about this -- I guess it's time for more of us to give this area a
> bit more attention.
>
>
>>
>> > concerning the actual content we are discussing. This does not have a
>> (TM)
>> > after Apache OpenOffice. I thought this was the original cause of
>> objection.
>> >
>> > And, we can see from the listings on the consultants page that we did not
>> > enforce a (TM) after Apache OpenOffice on the consultants page.
>> >
>> > * there are the actual websites of the consultants, like yours, and this
>> > submitted one up for consideration.
>> >
>> > It seems there is more concern to enforce a (TM) symbol after Apache
>> > OpenOffice for these third party websites. However, this is not
>> something
>> > required by Apache.
>> >
>> > See:
>> >
>> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
>> >
>> > The important factor is referencing OpenOffice as "Apache OpenOffice",
>> and
>> > not the use the of the (TM) after the name.
>> >
>> > The website, http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html, seems to have all
>> bases
>> > covered near as I can tell -- correct naming and use of (TM).
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > MzK
>> >
>> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
>> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
>> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Hello *,
> >>
> >>
> >> > From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
> >>
> >> > So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
> >> > implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
> >> > I'll be happy to
> >> > take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
> >>
> >> Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
> >>
> >> The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4" should
> be
> >> changed.
> >> Should he ever be changed or what says:
> >>
> >> > ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
> >> > Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
> >>
> >>
> >> In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can change
> >> my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Greetings,
> >> Jörg
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >>
> >>
> > My take on this discussion so far (and I am certainly NOT the definitive
> > judge on this):
> >
> > * there is the listing on the consultants page itself:
> > http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
> >
>
> I wrote that page, so it might not be too presumptuous if I say what I
> meant when I wrote it ;-)
>
> The guideline is that the 3rd party pages must "respect ASF
> Trademarks". This is vague, but intentionally so. I think we'll all
> be more accurate judges of what is wrong when we see it than we are
> predictors of all things that could possibly be wrong. So the
> discretion is given to the PMC to take this on a case-by-case basis.
> We should be looking at each submission and their linked websites as a
> whole.
>
> The kinds of abuses I had in mind were mainly pages that implied that
> the services were endorsed or affiliated with the ASF. This is much
> more than technicalities of whether or not a (TM) symbol is used. For
> example, a page that calls itself "Apache OpenOffice (TM) Consulting
> Group" would *not* be OK. We don't want our trademarks used as
> adjectives, since that suggests an affiliation.
>
> I also had in mind that we might need to correct names where they are
> misstated, e.g., "Apache Open Office", "Apache Openoffice",
> "OpenOffice.org", etc.
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
OK -- I think we should go ahead with this. Unfortunately, testing with my
private web area on my box, my server is balking at the ".xsl" page that
goes with this...so...
Rob, since you have always taken care of this in the past, I would be fine
and dandy with you committing this change -- wearing your Apache hat
instead of your IBM one of course. ;)
So sorry about this -- I guess it's time for more of us to give this area a
bit more attention.
>
> > concerning the actual content we are discussing. This does not have a
> (TM)
> > after Apache OpenOffice. I thought this was the original cause of
> objection.
> >
> > And, we can see from the listings on the consultants page that we did not
> > enforce a (TM) after Apache OpenOffice on the consultants page.
> >
> > * there are the actual websites of the consultants, like yours, and this
> > submitted one up for consideration.
> >
> > It seems there is more concern to enforce a (TM) symbol after Apache
> > OpenOffice for these third party websites. However, this is not
> something
> > required by Apache.
> >
> > See:
> >
> > http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
> >
> > The important factor is referencing OpenOffice as "Apache OpenOffice",
> and
> > not the use the of the (TM) after the name.
> >
> > The website, http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html, seems to have all
> bases
> > covered near as I can tell -- correct naming and use of (TM).
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > MzK
> >
> > “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> > Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> > -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
-- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
>
>> Hello *,
>>
>>
>> > From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
>>
>> > So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
>> > implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
>> > I'll be happy to
>> > take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
>>
>> Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
>>
>> The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4" should be
>> changed.
>> Should he ever be changed or what says:
>>
>> > ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
>> > Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
>>
>>
>> In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can change
>> my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Jörg
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>>
>>
> My take on this discussion so far (and I am certainly NOT the definitive
> judge on this):
>
> * there is the listing on the consultants page itself:
> http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>
I wrote that page, so it might not be too presumptuous if I say what I
meant when I wrote it ;-)
The guideline is that the 3rd party pages must "respect ASF
Trademarks". This is vague, but intentionally so. I think we'll all
be more accurate judges of what is wrong when we see it than we are
predictors of all things that could possibly be wrong. So the
discretion is given to the PMC to take this on a case-by-case basis.
We should be looking at each submission and their linked websites as a
whole.
The kinds of abuses I had in mind were mainly pages that implied that
the services were endorsed or affiliated with the ASF. This is much
more than technicalities of whether or not a (TM) symbol is used. For
example, a page that calls itself "Apache OpenOffice (TM) Consulting
Group" would *not* be OK. We don't want our trademarks used as
adjectives, since that suggests an affiliation.
I also had in mind that we might need to correct names where they are
misstated, e.g., "Apache Open Office", "Apache Openoffice",
"OpenOffice.org", etc.
Regards,
-Rob
> concerning the actual content we are discussing. This does not have a (TM)
> after Apache OpenOffice. I thought this was the original cause of objection.
>
> And, we can see from the listings on the consultants page that we did not
> enforce a (TM) after Apache OpenOffice on the consultants page.
>
> * there are the actual websites of the consultants, like yours, and this
> submitted one up for consideration.
>
> It seems there is more concern to enforce a (TM) symbol after Apache
> OpenOffice for these third party websites. However, this is not something
> required by Apache.
>
> See:
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
>
> The important factor is referencing OpenOffice as "Apache OpenOffice", and
> not the use the of the (TM) after the name.
>
> The website, http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html, seems to have all bases
> covered near as I can tell -- correct naming and use of (TM).
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> “Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
> Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
> -- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> Hello *,
>
>
> > From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
>
> > So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
> > implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
> > I'll be happy to
> > take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
>
> Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
>
> The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4" should be
> changed.
> Should he ever be changed or what says:
>
> > ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
> > Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
>
>
> In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can change
> my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>
My take on this discussion so far (and I am certainly NOT the definitive
judge on this):
* there is the listing on the consultants page itself:
http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
concerning the actual content we are discussing. This does not have a (TM)
after Apache OpenOffice. I thought this was the original cause of objection.
And, we can see from the listings on the consultants page that we did not
enforce a (TM) after Apache OpenOffice on the consultants page.
* there are the actual websites of the consultants, like yours, and this
submitted one up for consideration.
It seems there is more concern to enforce a (TM) symbol after Apache
OpenOffice for these third party websites. However, this is not something
required by Apache.
See:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/faq/#attribution
The important factor is referencing OpenOffice as "Apache OpenOffice", and
not the use the of the (TM) after the name.
The website, http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html, seems to have all bases
covered near as I can tell -- correct naming and use of (TM).
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
-- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
Hello *,
> From: Kay Schenk [mailto:kay.schenk@gmail.com]
> So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
> implement this addition, without further changes, anyway?
> I'll be happy to
> take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
Can you please summarize what the solution should look like?
The thread is long and I have somewhat lost track as "point # 4" should be changed.
Should he ever be changed or what says:
> ... Can be eased a bit as it is clear enough did the
> Items are with and for our project, respectively. product.
In particular, it would be important for me to know whether I can change my website (http://www.jm-schmidt.de/inhalt.html) or must.
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Marcus (OOo) <ma...@wtnet.de> wrote:
> Am 10/23/2013 12:04 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
>
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Drew Jensen<dr...@gmail.com>
>> >wrote:
>>
>> Howdy Rob,
>>>
>>> Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a
>>> la:
>>> "IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
>>>
>>>
>> FYI on the existing consultant entries
>> http://www.openoffice.org/**bizdev/consultants.html<http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html>
>>
>> none have the TM after Apache OpenOffice, and some don't even have
>> "Apache"
>> in front of OpenOffice. So...not sure if we should manually correct these
>> already approved submissions.
>>
>> Of course, it's our site so we can do what we want. My point is we should
>> be consistent in how OpenOffice is presented in them -- with "Apache" or
>> not; with TM after or not.
>>
>
> I also think that webpage should show consistent information. As the
> existing items don't have too much indication about trademarks & co., IMHO
> we can also abstain with regards to Rob's suggestion.
>
> Furthermore:
> The top headline says it all: ;-)
>
> Apache OpenOffice Consultants
>
> So, I think the point #4 on "http://www.openoffice.org/**
> bizdev/consultant-submission.**html<http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html>"
> can be eased a bit as it is clear enough that the items are with and for
> our project resp. product.
>
> Marcus
So...this thread does not meet "lazy consensus" but are we ready to
implement this addition, without further changes, anyway? I'll be happy to
take care of this either later today or tomorrow if we are.
>
>
>
> A couple of quick questions if I may.
>>> Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
>>> that was the plan in the past.
>>>
>>> Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States
>>> GSA
>>> registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last
>>> few
>>> years.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> //drew
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt<jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
>>>>>>
>>>>> necessary formalities.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
>>>>>>
>>>>> relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice<TM>"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and not only:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I think that would be more confusing.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
>>>> trademark rights of Apache.
>>>> Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
>>>>
>>>> It would suggest the entire
>>>>> name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
>>>>> letters.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
>>>> text, for example in:
>>>>
>>>> "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
>>>> Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
>>>>
>>>> where IBM is already marked with ®.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Greetings,
>>>> Jörg
>>>>
>>>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
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>
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
“Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
Nothing is going to get better. It's not.”
-- Dr. Seuss, The Lorax
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by "Marcus (OOo)" <ma...@wtnet.de>.
Am 10/23/2013 12:04 AM, schrieb Kay Schenk:
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Drew Jensen<dr...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Howdy Rob,
>>
>> Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a la:
>> "IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
>>
>
> FYI on the existing consultant entries
> http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>
> none have the TM after Apache OpenOffice, and some don't even have "Apache"
> in front of OpenOffice. So...not sure if we should manually correct these
> already approved submissions.
>
> Of course, it's our site so we can do what we want. My point is we should
> be consistent in how OpenOffice is presented in them -- with "Apache" or
> not; with TM after or not.
I also think that webpage should show consistent information. As the
existing items don't have too much indication about trademarks & co.,
IMHO we can also abstain with regards to Rob's suggestion.
Furthermore:
The top headline says it all: ;-)
Apache OpenOffice Consultants
So, I think the point #4 on
"http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html" can be
eased a bit as it is clear enough that the items are with and for our
project resp. product.
Marcus
>> A couple of quick questions if I may.
>> Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
>> that was the plan in the past.
>>
>> Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States GSA
>> registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last few
>> years.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> //drew
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt<jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
>>>> necessary formalities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
>>>> relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
>>>>>
>>>>> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice<TM>"
>>>>>
>>>>> and not only:
>>>>>
>>>>> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think that would be more confusing.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
>>> trademark rights of Apache.
>>> Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
>>>
>>>> It would suggest the entire
>>>> name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
>>>> letters.
>>>
>>> It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
>>> text, for example in:
>>>
>>> "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
>>> Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
>>>
>>> where IBM is already marked with ®.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Jörg
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:04 PM, Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Howdy Rob,
>>
>> Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a la:
>> "IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
>>
>
> FYI on the existing consultant entries
> http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
>
> none have the TM after Apache OpenOffice, and some don't even have "Apache"
> in front of OpenOffice. So...not sure if we should manually correct these
> already approved submissions.
>
I think the concern is how OpenOffice is referenced on the vendor's
linked website, not on our own website. All www.openoffice.org pages
are already covered by having the logo in the upper left, since that
has the (TM) symbol.
Regards,
-Rob
> Of course, it's our site so we can do what we want. My point is we should
> be consistent in how OpenOffice is presented in them -- with "Apache" or
> not; with TM after or not.
>
>
>
>>
>> A couple of quick questions if I may.
>> Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
>> that was the plan in the past.
>>
>> Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States GSA
>> registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last few
>> years.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> //drew
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > > Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
>> > > necessary formalities.
>> > > >
>> > > > Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
>> > > relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
>> > > >
>> > > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
>> > > >
>> > > > and not only:
>> > > >
>> > > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > I think that would be more confusing.
>> >
>> > Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
>> > trademark rights of Apache.
>> > Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
>> >
>> > > It would suggest the entire
>> > > name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
>> > > letters.
>> >
>> > It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
>> > text, for example in:
>> >
>> > "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
>> > Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
>> >
>> > where IBM is already marked with ®.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Greetings,
>> > Jörg
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "There's so much boldness in living life this way ...
> we did it all, and no one can take it away from us."
> -- Diana Nyad
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Kay Schenk <ka...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 1:07 PM, Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Howdy Rob,
>
> Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a la:
> "IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
>
FYI on the existing consultant entries
http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultants.html
none have the TM after Apache OpenOffice, and some don't even have "Apache"
in front of OpenOffice. So...not sure if we should manually correct these
already approved submissions.
Of course, it's our site so we can do what we want. My point is we should
be consistent in how OpenOffice is presented in them -- with "Apache" or
not; with TM after or not.
>
> A couple of quick questions if I may.
> Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
> that was the plan in the past.
>
> Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States GSA
> registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last few
> years.
>
> Thanks,
>
> //drew
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
> wrote:
>
> > > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
> > > necessary formalities.
> > > >
> > > > Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
> > > relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
> > > >
> > > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
> > > >
> > > > and not only:
> > > >
> > > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think that would be more confusing.
> >
> > Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
> > trademark rights of Apache.
> > Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
> >
> > > It would suggest the entire
> > > name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
> > > letters.
> >
> > It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
> > text, for example in:
> >
> > "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
> > Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
> >
> > where IBM is already marked with ®.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Jörg
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MzK
"There's so much boldness in living life this way ...
we did it all, and no one can take it away from us."
-- Diana Nyad
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Drew Jensen <dr...@gmail.com>.
Howdy Rob,
Ah trademarks - yes, I agree the Apache OpenOffice should have a TM, a la:
"IBM® Lotus® Symphony™ is a suite of open source office applications."
A couple of quick questions if I may.
Will the support only be available to those with the IBM connectors? IIRC
that was the plan in the past.
Also, does IBM have any plans to list AOO support on the United States GSA
registry? This was available in the past but not available for the last few
years.
Thanks,
//drew
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>
> > >
> > > Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
> > necessary formalities.
> > >
> > > Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
> > relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
> > >
> > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
> > >
> > > and not only:
> > >
> > > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
> > >
> >
> > I think that would be more confusing.
>
> Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather
> trademark rights of Apache.
> Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
>
> > It would suggest the entire
> > name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
> > letters.
>
> It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous
> text, for example in:
>
> "IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for
> Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
>
> where IBM is already marked with ®.
>
>
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> >
> > Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the
> necessary formalities.
> >
> > Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the
> relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
> >
> > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
> >
> > and not only:
> >
> > "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
> >
>
> I think that would be more confusing.
Sorry, but appearance is imho not so much the issue here, but rather trademark rights of Apache.
Yes, that is formal, but how else should this be handled?
> It would suggest the entire
> name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
> letters.
It does not have to be in the headline. Put identification in continuous text, for example in:
"IBM® Support for Apache OpenOffice™ offers expert technical support for Apache OpenOffice™, ..."
where IBM is already marked with ®.
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:00 PM, Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pescetti@apache.org]
>
>> Received. Subject to lazy consensus as usual, we can add it to the
>> Consultants page in 72 hours.
>
> In this Case unfortunately: -1
>
> (But I do not know if I can vote here)
>
>
> Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the necessary formalities.
>
> Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
>
> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
>
> and not only:
>
> "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
>
I think that would be more confusing. It would suggest the entire
name was a trademark since it is a continuous name with capital
letters.
In the context of the page it makes full acknowledgement of where
Apache OpenOffice is from. In fact it acknowledges this in the very
first sentence of the page: "IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice offers
expert technical support for Apache OpenOffice, the open source office
software suite project from the Apache Software Foundation." The page
also links back to www.openoffice.org.
>
> See point 4 in:
> http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html
>
You should read the linked Apache page for what respecting marks means:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/
Let me know if you see anything that does not comply with those requirements.
Regards,
-Rob
>
>
> Greetings,
> Jörg
>
>
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
Hello,
> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pescetti@apache.org]
> Received. Subject to lazy consensus as usual, we can add it to the
> Consultants page in 72 hours.
In this Case unfortunately: -1
(But I do not know if I can vote here)
Sorry, but I think the website does not comply with the necessary formalities.
Always has been emphasized, these are marked on the relevant websites trademark of Apache, for example:
"IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice <TM>"
and not only:
"IBM Support for Apache OpenOffice"
See point 4 in:
http://www.openoffice.org/bizdev/consultant-submission.html
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: Submission for consultants page
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Rob Weir wrote:
> <consultant>
> <name>IBM</name>
> <country>Global</country> ...
> </consultant>
Received. Subject to lazy consensus as usual, we can add it to the
Consultants page in 72 hours.
Regards,
Andrea.
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