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Posted to user@commons.apache.org by Boris Unckel <bo...@gmx.net> on 2006/02/06 22:48:57 UTC
[All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this
list
Hello,
due to the last weeks of many unsortable mail headers:
Here http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#Commons is a important
sentence about the "good tone" of the topics of any messages to this list.
>
> Since there are multiple projects in commons, after successfully
> subscribing, please add [/component_name/] at the beginning of the
> subject of your mail. This will allow all concerned to use their mail
> agent's filter system to focus on the particular components they are
> interested in.
>
> The various Commons components use the same mail list to improve
> cross-pollination of ideas.
>
Many people (me too) use automatic filters of their mail clients to sort
the different components and read the components of interest.
Please make life of people who read the list continuously easier - they
are reading the list to help you.
The more people obey that - the more new people see how it works and
helps...
Thanks and regards
Boris
Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this
list
Posted by Mark Fortner <ph...@yahoo.com>.
Henri,
My personal feeling is that choice is good. Given the choice, I would
probably subscribe to individual API lists rather than attempt to filter
the messages that I get on this list as a previous poster suggested.
You mention that the benefit to having an all-inclusive list is that:
(1) People working on different APIs can see synergies or areas of
commonality or need between the different groups.
(2) User subscriptions are easier.
While I agree with your first contention, I find that most of the people
on the lists are actually users of the APIs not contributors. So while
it might be interesting to me as a VFS contributor to know that Net
users might like to use some of its code, as a user this is largely
irrelevant to me. Also there's a lot of sharing going on outside of the
Commons list that doesn't really get captured on the lists or remains
solely within the domain of the originating group. For example, VFS has
a number of Ant tasks that aren't distributed with Ant, but would
actually be quite useful to Ant users. This information is never really
communicated out of the commons lists.
As for making user subscriptions easier. Most people download the
individual APIs that they want to use, and it makes sense for them to
subscribe only to the list for that API.
To sum up: if you're a lead on a project; subscribe to everything. If
you're a contributor or a user, you get a choice -- but contributors are
encouraged to subscribe to everything.
Mark
Henri Yandell wrote:
> There's a welcome mail? ;)
>
> Email overload is a general problem; the [foo] helps a bit but there
> has to be a time at which all being on the same list doesn't scale.
> Are commons-dev and commons-user fine currently? What if we fold all
> of the other Jakarta projects into them. Still fine?
>
> And yet there are huge benefits to sharing a list. Commons is all
> about huge crossover between tiny communities - but when does it go
> from being a constructive town meeting to becoming a bedlam of noise.
> Putting each component on its own -dev list would be death - so we
> obviously need a different solution there.
>
> However, it'd be interesting to hear what people think about the
> benefits of the -user list being shared. I see a few possibles:
>
> * Easy for users. They're not having to hunt down which mailing list a
> component is on - which will cause the kind of "sorry, please goto
> list such and such" redirects we often have to do on general@jakarta.
>
> * Not having a constant stream of mail list requests (and mail list
> removal requests).
>
> * Easier place to search (not that we make it that easy to search the lists).
>
> I'm not sure I'm convinced by any of them :) I'm also interested in
> whether a forum interface (working as a facade for the mailing list)
> would help. How are people finding nabble and gmane?
>
> Hopefully no one minds this navel-gazing; I'm always happy to reopen
> old discussions to see if the consensus has changed.
>
> Hen
>
> On 2/7/06, Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net> wrote:
>
>> Can you (and preferrably others too) confirm that you actually read the (automated) welcome mail ?
>> I never read them and my impression is that a lot of people don't read it.
>>
>> Mvgr,
>> Martin
>>
>> Hal Hildebrand wrote:
>>
>>> It'd probably help if this policy was clearly spelled out in a welcome message from the list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Boris Unckel [mailto:boris.unckel.mlg@gmx.net]
>>>>
>>>> Good Morning,
>>>>
>>>> Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
>>>>> user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
>>>>> currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
>>>>> could do without.
>>>>>
>>>> this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
>>>> point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one list
>>>> people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>> Boris
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this list
Posted by Henri Yandell <fl...@gmail.com>.
There's a welcome mail? ;)
Email overload is a general problem; the [foo] helps a bit but there
has to be a time at which all being on the same list doesn't scale.
Are commons-dev and commons-user fine currently? What if we fold all
of the other Jakarta projects into them. Still fine?
And yet there are huge benefits to sharing a list. Commons is all
about huge crossover between tiny communities - but when does it go
from being a constructive town meeting to becoming a bedlam of noise.
Putting each component on its own -dev list would be death - so we
obviously need a different solution there.
However, it'd be interesting to hear what people think about the
benefits of the -user list being shared. I see a few possibles:
* Easy for users. They're not having to hunt down which mailing list a
component is on - which will cause the kind of "sorry, please goto
list such and such" redirects we often have to do on general@jakarta.
* Not having a constant stream of mail list requests (and mail list
removal requests).
* Easier place to search (not that we make it that easy to search the lists).
I'm not sure I'm convinced by any of them :) I'm also interested in
whether a forum interface (working as a facade for the mailing list)
would help. How are people finding nabble and gmane?
Hopefully no one minds this navel-gazing; I'm always happy to reopen
old discussions to see if the consensus has changed.
Hen
On 2/7/06, Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net> wrote:
> Can you (and preferrably others too) confirm that you actually read the (automated) welcome mail ?
> I never read them and my impression is that a lot of people don't read it.
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
> Hal Hildebrand wrote:
> > It'd probably help if this policy was clearly spelled out in a welcome message from the list.
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Boris Unckel [mailto:boris.unckel.mlg@gmx.net]
> >>
> >>Good Morning,
> >>
> >>Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
> >>
> >>>I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
> >>>user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
> >>>currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
> >>>could do without.
> >>
> >>this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
> >>point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one list
> >>people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
> >>
> >>Regards
> >>Boris
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this
list
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
That is the confirm mail and not the welcome mail :)
Maybe the confirm mail is a better place to put the list policy of prefixing..
Mvgr,
Martin
James Carman wrote:
> I read enough to find the "click here to confirm" link.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin van den Bemt [mailto:mllist@mvdb.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:56 PM
> To: Jakarta Commons Users List
> Subject: Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of
> this list
>
> Can you (and preferrably others too) confirm that you actually read the
> (automated) welcome mail ?
> I never read them and my impression is that a lot of people don't read it.
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
> Hal Hildebrand wrote:
>
>>It'd probably help if this policy was clearly spelled out in a welcome
>
> message from the list.
>
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Boris Unckel [mailto:boris.unckel.mlg@gmx.net]
>>>
>>>Good Morning,
>>>
>>>Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
>>>
>>>>I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
>>>>user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
>>>>currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
>>>>could do without.
>>>
>>>this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
>>>point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one list
>>>people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>Boris
>>>
>>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>>For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
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RE: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this list
Posted by James Carman <ja...@carmanconsulting.com>.
I read enough to find the "click here to confirm" link.
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin van den Bemt [mailto:mllist@mvdb.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 12:56 PM
To: Jakarta Commons Users List
Subject: Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of
this list
Can you (and preferrably others too) confirm that you actually read the
(automated) welcome mail ?
I never read them and my impression is that a lot of people don't read it.
Mvgr,
Martin
Hal Hildebrand wrote:
> It'd probably help if this policy was clearly spelled out in a welcome
message from the list.
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Boris Unckel [mailto:boris.unckel.mlg@gmx.net]
>>
>>Good Morning,
>>
>>Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
>>
>>>I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
>>>user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
>>>currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
>>>could do without.
>>
>>this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
>>point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one list
>>people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
>>
>>Regards
>>Boris
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this
list
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Technically yes, but pretty much undesirable from an admin point of view.
I rather have no prefixing than this solution to be honest..
I think we are never going to solve the problem anyway, but we might get some improvement from
adding the prefixing to the footer of all the mails ?
Something like :
Please prefix your subject with the name of the component eg [componentname]
To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
Mvgr,
Martin
Josh Foure wrote:
> Can the mail server be configured to bounce back
> emails whose subject does not contain an open bracket
> followed by 1 or more characters followed by a closing
> braket? The email would of course give an explanation
> of the problem and what the user would have to do to
> resubmit the email.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this list
Posted by Josh Foure <us...@yahoo.com>.
Can the mail server be configured to bounce back
emails whose subject does not contain an open bracket
followed by 1 or more characters followed by a closing
braket? The email would of course give an explanation
of the problem and what the user would have to do to
resubmit the email.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of
this list
Posted by Hal Hildebrand <ha...@oracle.com>.
Can't confirm it, which goes to point out the fundamental flaw here. I got the subscription message and immediately replied and deleted it. Don't remember if I got a welcome message (there's none in my archives, but that doesn't mean it didn't come).
Anyways, this is just to say that if you have a list policy which is a little different, then you probably should be prepared to keep telling people about it. And because of this, one should likely be a bit understanding (and patient) if people don't immediately figure it out.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin van den Bemt [mailto:mllist@mvdb.net]
>
> Can you (and preferrably others too) confirm that you actually read the
> (automated) welcome mail ?
> I never read them and my impression is that a lot of people don't read it.
>
> Mvgr,
> Martin
>
> Hal Hildebrand wrote:
> > It'd probably help if this policy was clearly spelled out in a welcome
> message from the list.
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: Boris Unckel [mailto:boris.unckel.mlg@gmx.net]
> >>
> >>Good Morning,
> >>
> >>Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
> >>
> >>>I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
> >>>user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
> >>>currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
> >>>could do without.
> >>
> >>this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
> >>point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one
> list
> >>people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
> >>
> >>Regards
> >>Boris
> >>
> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> >>For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this
list
Posted by Martin van den Bemt <ml...@mvdb.net>.
Can you (and preferrably others too) confirm that you actually read the (automated) welcome mail ?
I never read them and my impression is that a lot of people don't read it.
Mvgr,
Martin
Hal Hildebrand wrote:
> It'd probably help if this policy was clearly spelled out in a welcome message from the list.
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Boris Unckel [mailto:boris.unckel.mlg@gmx.net]
>>
>>Good Morning,
>>
>>Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
>>
>>>I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
>>>user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
>>>currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
>>>could do without.
>>
>>this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
>>point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one list
>>people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
>>
>>Regards
>>Boris
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
>>For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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RE: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of
this list
Posted by Hal Hildebrand <ha...@oracle.com>.
It'd probably help if this policy was clearly spelled out in a welcome message from the list.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Boris Unckel [mailto:boris.unckel.mlg@gmx.net]
>
> Good Morning,
>
> Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
> >
> > I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
> > user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
> > currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
> > could do without.
>
> this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
> point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one list
> people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
>
> Regards
> Boris
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: commons-user-unsubscribe@jakarta.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: commons-user-help@jakarta.apache.org
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this list
Posted by Boris Unckel <bo...@gmx.net>.
Good Morning,
Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>
>
> I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
> user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
> currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
> could do without.
this is an old discussion (have a look at the archives). This was not my
point. As long as there is _one_ list and majority votes to have one list
people should respect that easy, understandable policy.
Regards
Boris
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [All] Newbies and questioners: Please respect the policy of this
list
Posted by Don Seiler <do...@seiler.us>.
Boris Unckel wrote:
> Hello,
>
> due to the last weeks of many unsortable mail headers:
> Here http://jakarta.apache.org/site/mail2.html#Commons is a important
> sentence about the "good tone" of the topics of any messages to this list.
>>
>> Since there are multiple projects in commons, after successfully
>> subscribing, please add [/component_name/] at the beginning of the
>> subject of your mail. This will allow all concerned to use their mail
>> agent's filter system to focus on the particular components they are
>> interested in.
>>
>> The various Commons components use the same mail list to improve
>> cross-pollination of ideas.
>>
> Many people (me too) use automatic filters of their mail clients to sort
> the different components and read the components of interest.
> Please make life of people who read the list continuously easier - they
> are reading the list to help you.
>
> The more people obey that - the more new people see how it works and
> helps...
I was wondering earlier if it doesn't make sense to create individual
user lists for the components? Speaking from personal experience, I'm
currently only interested in commons-net, and things like validator I
could do without.
--
Don Seiler
don@seiler.us
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