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Posted to dev@aurora.apache.org by Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org> on 2016/03/07 20:58:13 UTC
[PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Hi all,
I'd like to propose we adopt the Mesos universal container support for
provisioning tasks from both Docker and AppC images. Please review the doc
below and let me know what you think.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/111T09NBF2zjjl7HE95xglsDpRdKoZqhCRM5hHmOfTLA/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks!
Joshua
Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Posted by Steve Niemitz <sn...@apache.org>.
+1 as well, I'd love to move over to the universal containerizer ASAP and
will probably submit some patches to mesos to improve it once we're using
it.
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Bill Farner <wf...@apache.org> wrote:
> +1, move forward and support both until the path is obvious
>
> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Erb, Stephan <Stephan.Erb@blue-yonder.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > > Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a
> long
> > > term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we
> > go?
> >
> > FWIW, I am ok with moving along and assessing the situation on the fly.
> >
> > We cannot tell right now when the unified containerizer is rock-solid, so
> > a couple of improvement patches for the native Docker support will
> probably
> > do more good than harm. We just have to keep an eye on what's happening
> in
> > Mesos itself.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stephan
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 15:55
> > To: dev@aurora.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
> >
> > I've gone ahead and filed some tickets breaking down the work involved in
> > this effort. They're all contained within this epic:
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1634.
> >
> > I agree that we should assess our plans re: containers as a whole. My
> > understanding of the current state of the world is as follows:
> >
> >
> > 1. There are definite benefits to adopting the unified containerizer
> to
> > launch image-based tasks (outlined in the design doc, but I'll
> reiterate
> > here: better interaction w/ Mesos isolators, no need to rely on
> external
> > daemons to coordinate containers, etc.).
> > 2. There are also considerations to keep in mind, specifically, we now
> > rely on Mesos maintaining this image support, which is secondary to
> its
> > primary goals, rather than relying on organizations that are invested
> in
> > the formats. Additionally, we'll have to wait on Mesos to implement
> new
> > features of image formats before they can be adopted by Aurora users.
> >
> > I don't believe that number 2 above should be a blocker to number 1, but
> > it's a caveat that we must always keep in mind. I'll point out that the
> > design doc takes a very cautious approach towards deprecating the current
> > Docker support. It may be that we maintain both in perpetuity. It's also
> > possible, and I'm hopeful that this is the case, that the Mesos community
> > will show responsible custodianship of the unified container support,
> > allaying the concerns outlined above and allowing us to deprecate the
> > current native-Docker containerizer support. In either case described
> here,
> > I think Aurora users will benefit.
> >
> > Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a long
> > term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we
> go?
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Erb, Stephan <
> Stephan.Erb@blue-yonder.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As mentioned in IRC, I like the proposal.
> > >
> > > Still, we need a discussion regarding the future of current Docker
> > > support. Especially since Bill and John have now started improving it.
> > What
> > > are our plans here? What are the plans of the Mesos community (i.e.,
> > > deprecation of the docker containerizer)?
> > >
> > > In addition, the switch implemented for disabling Thermos when running
> > > Docker kind of reminded me of
> > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1288. It is probably
> > > worthwhile to at least assess this as a whole.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Stephan
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
> > > Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 20:58
> > > To: dev@aurora.apache.org
> > > Subject: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'd like to propose we adopt the Mesos universal container support for
> > > provisioning tasks from both Docker and AppC images. Please review the
> > doc
> > > below and let me know what you think.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/111T09NBF2zjjl7HE95xglsDpRdKoZqhCRM5hHmOfTLA/edit?usp=sharing
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Joshua
> > >
> >
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Posted by Bill Farner <wf...@apache.org>.
+1, move forward and support both until the path is obvious
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:11 AM, Erb, Stephan <St...@blue-yonder.com>
wrote:
> > Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a long
> > term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we
> go?
>
> FWIW, I am ok with moving along and assessing the situation on the fly.
>
> We cannot tell right now when the unified containerizer is rock-solid, so
> a couple of improvement patches for the native Docker support will probably
> do more good than harm. We just have to keep an eye on what's happening in
> Mesos itself.
>
> Regards,
> Stephan
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 15:55
> To: dev@aurora.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
>
> I've gone ahead and filed some tickets breaking down the work involved in
> this effort. They're all contained within this epic:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1634.
>
> I agree that we should assess our plans re: containers as a whole. My
> understanding of the current state of the world is as follows:
>
>
> 1. There are definite benefits to adopting the unified containerizer to
> launch image-based tasks (outlined in the design doc, but I'll reiterate
> here: better interaction w/ Mesos isolators, no need to rely on external
> daemons to coordinate containers, etc.).
> 2. There are also considerations to keep in mind, specifically, we now
> rely on Mesos maintaining this image support, which is secondary to its
> primary goals, rather than relying on organizations that are invested in
> the formats. Additionally, we'll have to wait on Mesos to implement new
> features of image formats before they can be adopted by Aurora users.
>
> I don't believe that number 2 above should be a blocker to number 1, but
> it's a caveat that we must always keep in mind. I'll point out that the
> design doc takes a very cautious approach towards deprecating the current
> Docker support. It may be that we maintain both in perpetuity. It's also
> possible, and I'm hopeful that this is the case, that the Mesos community
> will show responsible custodianship of the unified container support,
> allaying the concerns outlined above and allowing us to deprecate the
> current native-Docker containerizer support. In either case described here,
> I think Aurora users will benefit.
>
> Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a long
> term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we go?
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Erb, Stephan <Stephan.Erb@blue-yonder.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > As mentioned in IRC, I like the proposal.
> >
> > Still, we need a discussion regarding the future of current Docker
> > support. Especially since Bill and John have now started improving it.
> What
> > are our plans here? What are the plans of the Mesos community (i.e.,
> > deprecation of the docker containerizer)?
> >
> > In addition, the switch implemented for disabling Thermos when running
> > Docker kind of reminded me of
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1288. It is probably
> > worthwhile to at least assess this as a whole.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Stephan
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 20:58
> > To: dev@aurora.apache.org
> > Subject: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'd like to propose we adopt the Mesos universal container support for
> > provisioning tasks from both Docker and AppC images. Please review the
> doc
> > below and let me know what you think.
> >
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/111T09NBF2zjjl7HE95xglsDpRdKoZqhCRM5hHmOfTLA/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Joshua
> >
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Posted by "Erb, Stephan" <St...@blue-yonder.com>.
> Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a long
> term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we go?
FWIW, I am ok with moving along and assessing the situation on the fly.
We cannot tell right now when the unified containerizer is rock-solid, so a couple of improvement patches for the native Docker support will probably do more good than harm. We just have to keep an eye on what's happening in Mesos itself.
Regards,
Stephan
________________________________________
From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2016 15:55
To: dev@aurora.apache.org
Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
I've gone ahead and filed some tickets breaking down the work involved in
this effort. They're all contained within this epic:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1634.
I agree that we should assess our plans re: containers as a whole. My
understanding of the current state of the world is as follows:
1. There are definite benefits to adopting the unified containerizer to
launch image-based tasks (outlined in the design doc, but I'll reiterate
here: better interaction w/ Mesos isolators, no need to rely on external
daemons to coordinate containers, etc.).
2. There are also considerations to keep in mind, specifically, we now
rely on Mesos maintaining this image support, which is secondary to its
primary goals, rather than relying on organizations that are invested in
the formats. Additionally, we'll have to wait on Mesos to implement new
features of image formats before they can be adopted by Aurora users.
I don't believe that number 2 above should be a blocker to number 1, but
it's a caveat that we must always keep in mind. I'll point out that the
design doc takes a very cautious approach towards deprecating the current
Docker support. It may be that we maintain both in perpetuity. It's also
possible, and I'm hopeful that this is the case, that the Mesos community
will show responsible custodianship of the unified container support,
allaying the concerns outlined above and allowing us to deprecate the
current native-Docker containerizer support. In either case described here,
I think Aurora users will benefit.
Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a long
term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we go?
On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Erb, Stephan <St...@blue-yonder.com>
wrote:
> As mentioned in IRC, I like the proposal.
>
> Still, we need a discussion regarding the future of current Docker
> support. Especially since Bill and John have now started improving it. What
> are our plans here? What are the plans of the Mesos community (i.e.,
> deprecation of the docker containerizer)?
>
> In addition, the switch implemented for disabling Thermos when running
> Docker kind of reminded me of
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1288. It is probably
> worthwhile to at least assess this as a whole.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Stephan
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 20:58
> To: dev@aurora.apache.org
> Subject: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to propose we adopt the Mesos universal container support for
> provisioning tasks from both Docker and AppC images. Please review the doc
> below and let me know what you think.
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/111T09NBF2zjjl7HE95xglsDpRdKoZqhCRM5hHmOfTLA/edit?usp=sharing
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joshua
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Posted by John Sirois <jo...@gmail.com>.
On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 8:55 AM, Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org> wrote:
> I've gone ahead and filed some tickets breaking down the work involved in
> this effort. They're all contained within this epic:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1634.
>
> I agree that we should assess our plans re: containers as a whole. My
> understanding of the current state of the world is as follows:
>
>
> 1. There are definite benefits to adopting the unified containerizer to
> launch image-based tasks (outlined in the design doc, but I'll reiterate
> here: better interaction w/ Mesos isolators, no need to rely on external
> daemons to coordinate containers, etc.).
> 2. There are also considerations to keep in mind, specifically, we now
> rely on Mesos maintaining this image support, which is secondary to its
> primary goals, rather than relying on organizations that are invested in
> the formats. Additionally, we'll have to wait on Mesos to implement new
> features of image formats before they can be adopted by Aurora users.
>
> I don't believe that number 2 above should be a blocker to number 1, but
> it's a caveat that we must always keep in mind. I'll point out that the
> design doc takes a very cautious approach towards deprecating the current
> Docker support. It may be that we maintain both in perpetuity. It's also
> possible, and I'm hopeful that this is the case, that the Mesos community
> will show responsible custodianship of the unified container support,
> allaying the concerns outlined above and allowing us to deprecate the
> current native-Docker containerizer support. In either case described here,
> I think Aurora users will benefit.
>
> Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a long
> term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we go?
>
I think its reasonable to move forward and assess as we go. Even if the
potential difficulties noted in 2 actually come to pass, this exercise will
at least make the separation between the client, scheduler and executor
more clearly delinieated and that alone will have been worth the effort
from what I can tell.
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Erb, Stephan <Stephan.Erb@blue-yonder.com
> >
> wrote:
>
> > As mentioned in IRC, I like the proposal.
> >
> > Still, we need a discussion regarding the future of current Docker
> > support. Especially since Bill and John have now started improving it.
> What
> > are our plans here? What are the plans of the Mesos community (i.e.,
> > deprecation of the docker containerizer)?
> >
> > In addition, the switch implemented for disabling Thermos when running
> > Docker kind of reminded me of
> > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1288. It is probably
> > worthwhile to at least assess this as a whole.
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Stephan
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
> > Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 20:58
> > To: dev@aurora.apache.org
> > Subject: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'd like to propose we adopt the Mesos universal container support for
> > provisioning tasks from both Docker and AppC images. Please review the
> doc
> > below and let me know what you think.
> >
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/111T09NBF2zjjl7HE95xglsDpRdKoZqhCRM5hHmOfTLA/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Joshua
> >
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Posted by Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>.
I've gone ahead and filed some tickets breaking down the work involved in
this effort. They're all contained within this epic:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1634.
I agree that we should assess our plans re: containers as a whole. My
understanding of the current state of the world is as follows:
1. There are definite benefits to adopting the unified containerizer to
launch image-based tasks (outlined in the design doc, but I'll reiterate
here: better interaction w/ Mesos isolators, no need to rely on external
daemons to coordinate containers, etc.).
2. There are also considerations to keep in mind, specifically, we now
rely on Mesos maintaining this image support, which is secondary to its
primary goals, rather than relying on organizations that are invested in
the formats. Additionally, we'll have to wait on Mesos to implement new
features of image formats before they can be adopted by Aurora users.
I don't believe that number 2 above should be a blocker to number 1, but
it's a caveat that we must always keep in mind. I'll point out that the
design doc takes a very cautious approach towards deprecating the current
Docker support. It may be that we maintain both in perpetuity. It's also
possible, and I'm hopeful that this is the case, that the Mesos community
will show responsible custodianship of the unified container support,
allaying the concerns outlined above and allowing us to deprecate the
current native-Docker containerizer support. In either case described here,
I think Aurora users will benefit.
Does anyone think we need a stop-the-world moment to come up with a long
term, holistic plan, or is it reasonable to assess the situation as we go?
On Sun, Mar 13, 2016 at 7:23 AM, Erb, Stephan <St...@blue-yonder.com>
wrote:
> As mentioned in IRC, I like the proposal.
>
> Still, we need a discussion regarding the future of current Docker
> support. Especially since Bill and John have now started improving it. What
> are our plans here? What are the plans of the Mesos community (i.e.,
> deprecation of the docker containerizer)?
>
> In addition, the switch implemented for disabling Thermos when running
> Docker kind of reminded me of
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1288. It is probably
> worthwhile to at least assess this as a whole.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Stephan
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 20:58
> To: dev@aurora.apache.org
> Subject: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to propose we adopt the Mesos universal container support for
> provisioning tasks from both Docker and AppC images. Please review the doc
> below and let me know what you think.
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/111T09NBF2zjjl7HE95xglsDpRdKoZqhCRM5hHmOfTLA/edit?usp=sharing
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joshua
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Posted by "Erb, Stephan" <St...@blue-yonder.com>.
As mentioned in IRC, I like the proposal.
Still, we need a discussion regarding the future of current Docker support. Especially since Bill and John have now started improving it. What are our plans here? What are the plans of the Mesos community (i.e., deprecation of the docker containerizer)?
In addition, the switch implemented for disabling Thermos when running Docker kind of reminded me of https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/AURORA-1288. It is probably worthwhile to at least assess this as a whole.
Kind Regards,
Stephan
________________________________________
From: Joshua Cohen <jc...@apache.org>
Sent: Monday, March 7, 2016 20:58
To: dev@aurora.apache.org
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Supporting Mesos Universal Containers
Hi all,
I'd like to propose we adopt the Mesos universal container support for
provisioning tasks from both Docker and AppC images. Please review the doc
below and let me know what you think.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/111T09NBF2zjjl7HE95xglsDpRdKoZqhCRM5hHmOfTLA/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks!
Joshua