You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.
Posted to dev@cocoon.apache.org by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org> on 2003/02/04 20:16:56 UTC
Should we move mailing list names?
As I've just done it for axis-dev, should we move the cocoon mailing lists
from cocoon-(dev|user)@xml.apache.org to (dev|user)@cocoon.apache.org ???
It can be done transparently, so, without loosing the archive, the
subscribers and stuff, but as we got the top level domain name, I think it
might be a good idea to move those to reflect the change...
Pier
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Wednesday 05 February 2003 03:16, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> As I've just done it for axis-dev, should we move the cocoon mailing lists
> from cocoon-(dev|user)@xml.apache.org to (dev|user)@cocoon.apache.org ???
>
> It can be done transparently, so, without loosing the archive, the
> subscribers and stuff, but as we got the top level domain name, I think it
> might be a good idea to move those to reflect the change...
Am I the only one with procmail scripts that are sorting cocoon-dev and
cocoon-users senders into separate folders???
I couldn't really be bothered to dig into that again on the server, so _I_
would appreciate if the left-side is preserved as-is.
Others has brought up other issues.
Stefano (and others), how is your "never ever change a URL" stand on this one?
Niclas
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"David Crossley" <cr...@indexgeo.com.au> wrote:
> Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>> As I've just done it for axis-dev, should we move the cocoon mailing lists
>> from cocoon-(dev|user)@xml.apache.org to (dev|user)@cocoon.apache.org ???
>>
>> It can be done transparently, so, without loosing the archive, the
>> subscribers and stuff, but as we got the top level domain name, I think it
>> might be a good idea to move those to reflect the change...
>
> Er, hang on. What about the consequences?
???
> Every service that is archiving mail, e.g. MARC
> would be broken.
Why?
> How does mail get handled that goes to the old address?
> Does a "forward" remain in-place forever, because many
> people will not change their email client configuration?
Of course... I'd say 1 month grace time of "transparency", one month with an
informative "bounce" saying "the message has been sent to the list but you
should really change your preference", one month with a blocking bounce
saying "This mailing list is now called...." and then the old email addy
gets removed...
Pier
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by David Crossley <cr...@indexgeo.com.au>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> As I've just done it for axis-dev, should we move the cocoon mailing lists
> from cocoon-(dev|user)@xml.apache.org to (dev|user)@cocoon.apache.org ???
>
> It can be done transparently, so, without loosing the archive, the
> subscribers and stuff, but as we got the top level domain name, I think it
> might be a good idea to move those to reflect the change...
Er, hang on. What about the consequences?
Every service that is archiving mail, e.g. MARC
would be broken.
How does mail get handled that goes to the old address?
Does a "forward" remain in-place forever, because many
people will not change their email client configuration?
--David
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> As I've just done it for axis-dev, should we move the cocoon mailing lists
> from cocoon-(dev|user)@xml.apache.org to (dev|user)@cocoon.apache.org ???
>
> It can be done transparently, so, without loosing the archive, the
> subscribers and stuff, but as we got the top level domain name, I think it
> might be a good idea to move those to reflect the change...
+1. Provided that we have a grace period with both addresses working (I
don't see a reason for this not to happen, but you never know :-)).
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l.
http://www.pro-netics.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Vadim Gritsenko <va...@verizon.net>.
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>What about:
>
>devel@cocoon.apache.org
>
http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/ViewLists, search "devel", 0 results.
We would want to use Apache (de-facto) standard name, dev, won't we?
Vadim
>user@cocoon.apache.org
>doc@cocoon.apache.org
>
>Antonio Gallardo
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Thursday 06 February 2003 01:46, Leo Sutic wrote:
> > From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
> >
> > We also have to take into account the future subprojects of
> > the Cocoon
> > top-level project. In this perspective, the current Cocoon should be
> > considered as the "core" of a group of related projects (CMS, GIS,
> > webapp, etc.)
> >
> > In that perspective, I don't like stripping the distinctive part of
> > mailing lists for a generic "dev@" if there is to be some
> > "xxx-dev@" in the future.
>
> We did that in Avalon, with the (in hindsight predictable) results that
> each little mailing list became a community of its own - we had people
> working on Phoenix (then the Avalon reference container) who didn't know
>
> about Avalon! (Only with the formation of the PMC did we merge
> phoenix-dev
> back with avalon-dev.)
>
> In short, Sylvain, you may not want to do what you plan for.
On the other hand, Cocoon was a xml.apache.org sub-project, and I am sure you
didn't want cocoon-dev mixed up with all other sibling projects, did you?
I would like to express a vote to keep the cocoon-dev and cocoon-users on the
left. It doesn't hurt, and gives a bit more continuency now and flexibility
in the future...
Niclas
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>>From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
>>
>>We also have to take into account the future subprojects of
>>the Cocoon
>>top-level project. In this perspective, the current Cocoon should be
>>considered as the "core" of a group of related projects (CMS, GIS,
>>webapp, etc.)
>>
>>In that perspective, I don't like stripping the distinctive part of
>>mailing lists for a generic "dev@" if there is to be some
>>"xxx-dev@" in the future.
>
>
> We did that in Avalon, with the (in hindsight predictable) results that
> each little mailing list became a community of its own - we had people
> working on Phoenix (then the Avalon reference container) who didn't know
>
> about Avalon! (Only with the formation of the PMC did we merge
> phoenix-dev
> back with avalon-dev.)
>
> In short, Sylvain, you may not want to do what you plan for.
Agreed with the general principle, even if our situation is a little
different.
Cocoon doesn't have different concurrent and overlapping implementations
(yet, considering word on embedded devices)
I do not expect (nor will like to see it happening) a different mail
list for each different block and I would *not* like to see a different
mail list for each cocoon implementation (actually, I would not like
even to see a different CVS module for each cocoon implementation).
This community is strong and healthy, but this is not a quality that
remains forever, it's something that always needs to be scrutinized and
controlled.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate [William of Ockham]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Leo Sutic wrote:
>
>
>>From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
>>
>>We also have to take into account the future subprojects of
>>the Cocoon
>>top-level project. In this perspective, the current Cocoon should be
>>considered as the "core" of a group of related projects (CMS, GIS,
>>webapp, etc.)
>>
>>In that perspective, I don't like stripping the distinctive part of
>>mailing lists for a generic "dev@" if there is to be some
>>"xxx-dev@" in the future.
>>
>>
>
>We did that in Avalon, with the (in hindsight predictable) results that
>each little mailing list became a community of its own - we had people
>working on Phoenix (then the Avalon reference container) who didn't know
>about Avalon! (Only with the formation of the PMC did we merge
>phoenix-dev back with avalon-dev.)
>
>In short, Sylvain, you may not want to do what you plan for.
>
I understand your concern. However, I wonder if Cocoon's future
subprojects can be compared to Avalon : these subprojects will be based
on the core Cocoon framework, and as such won't be able to ignore what's
going on there. The relation between Phoenix and other Avalon subproject
is different, since the overlap between them is very small.
Mmmh... (thinking while I'm typing...) I guess you will say that it this
small overlap was actually enforced by separate mailing lists, and that
the current work on a single container architecture is partly due to
some common discussions on a single mailing list. So... you may be right.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
RE: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Leo Sutic <le...@inspireinfrastructure.com>.
> From: Sylvain Wallez [mailto:sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com]
>
> We also have to take into account the future subprojects of
> the Cocoon
> top-level project. In this perspective, the current Cocoon should be
> considered as the "core" of a group of related projects (CMS, GIS,
> webapp, etc.)
>
> In that perspective, I don't like stripping the distinctive part of
> mailing lists for a generic "dev@" if there is to be some
> "xxx-dev@" in the future.
We did that in Avalon, with the (in hindsight predictable) results that
each little mailing list became a community of its own - we had people
working on Phoenix (then the Avalon reference container) who didn't know
about Avalon! (Only with the formation of the PMC did we merge
phoenix-dev
back with avalon-dev.)
In short, Sylvain, you may not want to do what you plan for.
/LS
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
>On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:22:26PM +0000, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
>
>>"Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Jeff Turner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What about:
>>>>>
>>>>>devel@cocoon.apache.org
>>>>>user@cocoon.apache.org
>>>>>doc@cocoon.apache.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>That would be a severe break with tradition in Jakarta and xml.apache.org
>>>>projects. IMO, consistency within Apache (particularly the Java-speaking
>>>>parts) is more important than saving a few characters in the list name.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Totally agreed on the naming part.
>>>
>>>
>>So? What names do you guys propose?
>>
>>
>
>IMO, whatever Ant and Avalon pick. +1 for switching to whatever (user@
>and dev@ sounds good) when they agree to switch too.
>
>How about sending round a mail to gain consensus? There are some tricky
>issues (users@ vs. user@, cvs@ vs. commits@).
>
We also have to take into account the future subprojects of the Cocoon
top-level project. In this perspective, the current Cocoon should be
considered as the "core" of a group of related projects (CMS, GIS,
webapp, etc.)
In that perspective, I don't like stripping the distinctive part of
mailing lists for a generic "dev@" if there is to be some "xxx-dev@" in
the future.
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Wed, Feb 05, 2003 at 12:22:26PM +0000, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> "Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Jeff Turner wrote:
> >> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> >>
> >>> What about:
> >>>
> >>> devel@cocoon.apache.org
> >>> user@cocoon.apache.org
> >>> doc@cocoon.apache.org
> >>
> >> That would be a severe break with tradition in Jakarta and xml.apache.org
> >> projects. IMO, consistency within Apache (particularly the Java-speaking
> >> parts) is more important than saving a few characters in the list name.
> >
> > Totally agreed on the naming part.
>
> So? What names do you guys propose?
IMO, whatever Ant and Avalon pick. +1 for switching to whatever (user@
and dev@ sounds good) when they agree to switch too.
How about sending round a mail to gain consensus? There are some tricky
issues (users@ vs. user@, cvs@ vs. commits@).
>>>>
To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org, avalon-dev@jakarta.apache.org,
ant-dev@jakarta.apache.org, infrastructure@apache.org
Subject: [PROPOSAL] Rename mailing lists
Now that Cocoon, Ant and Avalon have migrated to top-level status, it is
hereby proposed that the mailing lists be renamed to reflect a common
pattern of top-level project lists, namely:
{dev,user,cvs,docs,announce,general}@<project>.apache.org
Issues to note:
1) The Jakarta standard is 'user'; the HTTPD and XML.apache.org standard
is 'users'. In deference to Jakarta's greater mindshare amongst Java
developers (all three projects are Java-based), the Jakarta standard
is suggested here.
2) All lists other than dev and user are optional.
3) Projects may choose to have CVS commits sent to the dev@ list, or have
a dedicated cvs@ list. Each project should decide if sending to
dev@ is beneficial ('forcing' developers to review commits) or harmful
(chasing away lurking devs who can't handle the volume). If
undecided, the HTTPd convention (a separate list) is suggested.
4) With the anticipated migration to Subversion, 'commits' might be
better than 'cvs'. However, 'cvs' is a firmly established convention,
and it seems better to migrate to 'commits' en-masse when actually
required, than buck the trend now.
To minimise user confusion and admin overhead, it would be best if all
three projects could agree to migrate at the same time (once consensus is
reached and Pier has time), and to the same naming convention (some
variant of the above).
<<<<
--Jeff
> Pier
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
"Stefano Mazzocchi" <st...@apache.org> wrote:
> Jeff Turner wrote:
>> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>>
>>> What about:
>>>
>>> devel@cocoon.apache.org
>>> user@cocoon.apache.org
>>> doc@cocoon.apache.org
>>
>> That would be a severe break with tradition in Jakarta and xml.apache.org
>> projects. IMO, consistency within Apache (particularly the Java-speaking
>> parts) is more important than saving a few characters in the list name.
>
> Totally agreed on the naming part.
So? What names do you guys propose?
Pier
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
>
>>What about:
>>
>>devel@cocoon.apache.org
>>user@cocoon.apache.org
>>doc@cocoon.apache.org
>
>
> That would be a severe break with tradition in Jakarta and xml.apache.org
> projects. IMO, consistency within Apache (particularly the Java-speaking
> parts) is more important than saving a few characters in the list name.
Totally agreed on the naming part.
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate [William of Ockham]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Tue, Feb 04, 2003 at 04:53:01PM -0600, Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> What about:
>
> devel@cocoon.apache.org
> user@cocoon.apache.org
> doc@cocoon.apache.org
That would be a severe break with tradition in Jakarta and xml.apache.org
projects. IMO, consistency within Apache (particularly the Java-speaking
parts) is more important than saving a few characters in the list name.
--Jeff
> Antonio Gallardo
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Antonio Gallardo wrote:
> What about:
>
> devel@cocoon.apache.org
> user@cocoon.apache.org
> doc@cocoon.apache.org
The easy way, stripping cocoon-*
cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
-> dev@cocoon.apache.org
cocoon-users@xml.apache.org
-> users@cocoon.apache.org
cocoon-docs@xml.apache.org
-> docs@cocoon.apache.org
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Antonio Gallardo <ag...@agsoftware.dnsalias.com>.
What about:
devel@cocoon.apache.org
user@cocoon.apache.org
doc@cocoon.apache.org
Antonio Gallardo
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Pier Fumagalli <pi...@betaversion.org>.
On 4/2/03 22:19, "Diana Shannon" <sh...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 02:16 PM, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
>
>> As I've just done it for axis-dev, should we move the cocoon mailing
>> lists
>> from cocoon-(dev|user)@xml.apache.org to
>> (dev|user)@cocoon.apache.org ???
>
> Just don't forget cocoon-docs!
Either none or all... :-)
Pier
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org
Re: Should we move mailing list names?
Posted by Diana Shannon <sh...@apache.org>.
On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 02:16 PM, Pier Fumagalli wrote:
> As I've just done it for axis-dev, should we move the cocoon mailing
> lists
> from cocoon-(dev|user)@xml.apache.org to
> (dev|user)@cocoon.apache.org ???
Just don't forget cocoon-docs!
Diana
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: cocoon-dev-unsubscribe@xml.apache.org
For additional commands, email: cocoon-dev-help@xml.apache.org