Re: Incubator, Jakarta, and new projects

[Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>]

I'm forwarding this to some of the lists already polled about becoming 
top-level.

I have recieved multiple requests for clarifications on why they would 
want to establish a PMC, and this is the best possible answer IMNSHO.


Roy T. Fielding wrote:
>>> The problem(s) in Avalon are very serious, but there are strong project
>>> leads in Avalon, so I am not sure what a project PMC would solve there.
>>
>>
>> PR/outward view would seem the major thing to me. Commons lacks a
>> governing group with the same name [PMC] as other projects and therefore
>> must be anarchy.
> 
> 
> The concept of a PMC, and the reason that anyone having a vote on the
> project code-base should be a member of the PMC, is to provide legal
> protection to those people as individuals.  Not being on a PMC (as
> defined by the bylaws) means that each and every decision made by those
> committers is outside the scope of Apache's legal protection, which
> in turn means that if a mistake is made (or some asshole lawyer just
> feels like it), any suit against the committer actions (such as
> infringement of some unknown patent) would have to be defended
> by the committers on their own.  The ASF would be able to defend the
> code itself, but not the people whose actions were outside the PMC.
> 
> That sucks, and I think the only reason the committers tolerate it
> is because they don't understand the risks and have no awareness of
> the bylaws.
> 
> Jakarta was created because the original Apache members needed an
> incubator for Java projects that was independent of httpd.  I expected
> the projects to form their own PMCs once they were self-governing.
> The Jakarta brand name is irrelevant to the PMC issues -- the common
> grouping of Apache Java projects under the jakarta.apache.org website
> does not need to change at all, nor do the mailing lists need to go away.
> 
> What we do need is to wake up the Jakarta committers to the awareness
> that they are working on Apache projects, under Apache guidelines, and
> towards shared ownership in the Apache Software Foundation.  Phrasing
> it as being forced out of Jakarta is why the projects refuse to form
> their own PMCs.  If you asked people whether they prefer the legal
> protection of the ASF or the management hierarchy of the Jakarta PMC,
> I think you will find the committers will accept self-governance in
> fact rather than the illusion provided by an external PMC.  If not,
> then at least they will be making an informed decision.
> 
> ....Roy
> 

-- 
Nicola Ken Barozzi                   nicolaken@apache.org
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
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