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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> on 2012/08/23 19:36:25 UTC
[DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
How do we want to do this?
A strawman proposal:
1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
nominations can be declined.
2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
are no sustained objections.
3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
Regards,
-Rob
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 23 August 2012 23:55, Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I recollect correctly, Ross volunteered to work the roster issue on
> behalf of the PPMC and as one of more active mentors. He's pretty busy at
> the moment, but I think we can put this taskforward for his attention and
> action.
I did offer and I have done some preliminary work on this. I'm afraid
I am much less advanced on the task than I would like. It is still on
my todo list. I'd hate to think it delays nominations for PMC Chair
(in fact that would be good information for me on cross-checking the
PMC list).
Ross
>
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>> wrote:
>
>> @sebb
>>
>> Yes, what you say about the position of the Chair (and also how the chair
>> accomplishes that as an officer of the ASF) was what I had in mind.
>>
>> With regard to the PPMC, here is a roster of the *current* PPMC (subject
>> to corrections anyone notices):
>>
>> Kai Ahrens : kahrens PPMC
>> Florent André : florent PPMC
>> Dave Barton : bmcs PPMC
>> Mathias Bauer : mbauer PPMC
>> Cyril Beaussier : bidouille PPMC
>> Stephan Bergmann : sb PPMC
>> Raphael Bircher : rbircher PPMC
>> Simon Brouwer : simonbr PPMC
>> Arthur Buijs : artietee PPMC
>> Jin Hua Chen : chenjinh PPMC
>> Jian Hong Cheng : chengjh PPMC
>> Ariel Constenla-Haile : arielch PPMC
>> Yuri Dario : ydario PPMC
>> Hagar Delest : hagar PPMC
>> Herbert Dürr : hdu PPMC
>> Claudio Filho : filhocf PPMC
>> Andre Fischer : af PPMC
>> David Fisher : wave PPMC
>> Thomas J. Frazier : tj PPMC
>> Roberto Galoppini : galoppini PPMC
>> Pedro Giffuni : pfg PPMC
>> Wolf Halton : wolfhalton PPMC
>> Dennis E. Hamilton : orcmid PPMC
>> Don Harbison : dpharbison PPMC
>> Regina Henschel : regina PPMC
>> Ivo Hinkelmann : ivo PPMC
>> Kazunari Hirano : khirano PPMC
>> Martin Hollmichel : mhollmichel PPMC
>> Jim Jagielski : jim PPMC
>> Drew Jensen : atjensen PPMC
>> Christoph Jopp : cjopp PPMC
>> Damjan Jovanovic : damjan PPMC
>> Peter Junge : pj PPMC
>> Yegor Kozlov : yegor PPMC
>> Marcus Lange : marcus PPMC
>> Graham Lauder : yo PPMC
>> Armin Le Grand : alg PPMC
>> Steve Lee : stevelee PPMC
>> Wang Lei : leiw PPMC
>> Christian Lippka : clippka PPMC
>> Ian Lynch : ingotian PPMC
>> Yong Lin Ma : mayongl PPMC
>> Carl Marcum : cmarcum PPMC
>> David McKay : thegurkha PPMC
>> Ingrid von der Mehden : ingrid PPMC
>> Antón Méixome : meixome PPMC
>> Maho Nakata : maho PPMC
>> Albino Neto : bino28 PPMC
>> Andrea Pescetti : pescetti PPMC
>> Frank Thomas Peters : fpe PPMC
>> Allen Pulsifer : apulsifer PPMC
>> Eike Rathke : erack PPMC
>> Manfred Reiter : fredao PPMC
>> Zoltán Reizinger : r4zoli PPMC
>> RGB.ES : rgb-es PPMC
>> Phillip Rhodes : prhodes PPMC
>> Andrew Rist : arist PPMC
>> Lawrence Rosen : lrosen PPMC
>> Roberto Salomon : salomon PPMC
>> Juan C. Sanz : jucasaca PPMC
>> Kay Schenk : kschenk PPMC
>> Jürgen Schmidt : jsc PPMC
>> Yang Shih-Ching : imacat PPMC
>> Jomar Silva : homembit PPMC
>> Kai Sommerfeld : kso PPMC
>> Louis Suárez-Potts : louis PPMC
>> Stefan Taxhet : st PPMC
>> Malte Timmermann : malte PPMC
>> Zhe Wang : wangzcdl PPMC
>> Rob Weir : robweir PPMC
>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann : orw PPMC
>> Jian Fang Zhang : zhangjf PPMC
>> Xia Zhao : lilyzhao PPMC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:17
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>
>> On 23 August 2012 19:22, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org>
>> wrote:
>> > I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to
>> be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>
>> The initial proposed PMC for other podlings has usually been taken
>> from the PPMC membership, but dropping any inactive (or unwilling)
>> members.
>>
>> > Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all
>> here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what
>> the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special
>> standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc-members
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>
>> The PMC chair is a position of responsibility (to the PMC and Board)
>> rather than authority over the PMC.
>>
>> > - Dennis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>> >
>> > Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>> > tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>> >
>> > You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>> >
>> > How do we want to do this?
>> >
>> > A strawman proposal:
>> >
>> > 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>> > someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>> > nominations can be declined.
>> >
>> > 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>> > are no sustained objections.
>> >
>> > 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>> > another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>> > subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>> >
>> > 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>> > then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>> > would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>> > would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>> > run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>> >
>> > Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > -Rob
>> >
>>
>>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 24 August 2012 00:13, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If I recollect correctly, Ross volunteered to work the roster issue on
>> behalf of the PPMC and as one of more active mentors. He's pretty busy at
>> the moment, but I think we can put this taskforward for his attention and
>> action.
>>
>
> We're already doing this, on ooo-private. All PPMC members should be
> monitoring that list or they will risk missing important threads.
Yep. I've been watching that work. Thank you very much for moving it
forwards in absence of my own delivery.
Ross
>
> -Rob
>
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> @sebb
>>>
>>> Yes, what you say about the position of the Chair (and also how the chair
>>> accomplishes that as an officer of the ASF) was what I had in mind.
>>>
>>> With regard to the PPMC, here is a roster of the *current* PPMC (subject
>>> to corrections anyone notices):
>>>
>>> Kai Ahrens : kahrens PPMC
>>> Florent André : florent PPMC
>>> Dave Barton : bmcs PPMC
>>> Mathias Bauer : mbauer PPMC
>>> Cyril Beaussier : bidouille PPMC
>>> Stephan Bergmann : sb PPMC
>>> Raphael Bircher : rbircher PPMC
>>> Simon Brouwer : simonbr PPMC
>>> Arthur Buijs : artietee PPMC
>>> Jin Hua Chen : chenjinh PPMC
>>> Jian Hong Cheng : chengjh PPMC
>>> Ariel Constenla-Haile : arielch PPMC
>>> Yuri Dario : ydario PPMC
>>> Hagar Delest : hagar PPMC
>>> Herbert Dürr : hdu PPMC
>>> Claudio Filho : filhocf PPMC
>>> Andre Fischer : af PPMC
>>> David Fisher : wave PPMC
>>> Thomas J. Frazier : tj PPMC
>>> Roberto Galoppini : galoppini PPMC
>>> Pedro Giffuni : pfg PPMC
>>> Wolf Halton : wolfhalton PPMC
>>> Dennis E. Hamilton : orcmid PPMC
>>> Don Harbison : dpharbison PPMC
>>> Regina Henschel : regina PPMC
>>> Ivo Hinkelmann : ivo PPMC
>>> Kazunari Hirano : khirano PPMC
>>> Martin Hollmichel : mhollmichel PPMC
>>> Jim Jagielski : jim PPMC
>>> Drew Jensen : atjensen PPMC
>>> Christoph Jopp : cjopp PPMC
>>> Damjan Jovanovic : damjan PPMC
>>> Peter Junge : pj PPMC
>>> Yegor Kozlov : yegor PPMC
>>> Marcus Lange : marcus PPMC
>>> Graham Lauder : yo PPMC
>>> Armin Le Grand : alg PPMC
>>> Steve Lee : stevelee PPMC
>>> Wang Lei : leiw PPMC
>>> Christian Lippka : clippka PPMC
>>> Ian Lynch : ingotian PPMC
>>> Yong Lin Ma : mayongl PPMC
>>> Carl Marcum : cmarcum PPMC
>>> David McKay : thegurkha PPMC
>>> Ingrid von der Mehden : ingrid PPMC
>>> Antón Méixome : meixome PPMC
>>> Maho Nakata : maho PPMC
>>> Albino Neto : bino28 PPMC
>>> Andrea Pescetti : pescetti PPMC
>>> Frank Thomas Peters : fpe PPMC
>>> Allen Pulsifer : apulsifer PPMC
>>> Eike Rathke : erack PPMC
>>> Manfred Reiter : fredao PPMC
>>> Zoltán Reizinger : r4zoli PPMC
>>> RGB.ES : rgb-es PPMC
>>> Phillip Rhodes : prhodes PPMC
>>> Andrew Rist : arist PPMC
>>> Lawrence Rosen : lrosen PPMC
>>> Roberto Salomon : salomon PPMC
>>> Juan C. Sanz : jucasaca PPMC
>>> Kay Schenk : kschenk PPMC
>>> Jürgen Schmidt : jsc PPMC
>>> Yang Shih-Ching : imacat PPMC
>>> Jomar Silva : homembit PPMC
>>> Kai Sommerfeld : kso PPMC
>>> Louis Suárez-Potts : louis PPMC
>>> Stefan Taxhet : st PPMC
>>> Malte Timmermann : malte PPMC
>>> Zhe Wang : wangzcdl PPMC
>>> Rob Weir : robweir PPMC
>>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann : orw PPMC
>>> Jian Fang Zhang : zhangjf PPMC
>>> Xia Zhao : lilyzhao PPMC
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:17
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>>
>>> On 23 August 2012 19:22, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> > I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to
>>> be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>>
>>> The initial proposed PMC for other podlings has usually been taken
>>> from the PPMC membership, but dropping any inactive (or unwilling)
>>> members.
>>>
>>> > Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all
>>> here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what
>>> the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special
>>> standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>>
>>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc-members
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>
>>> The PMC chair is a position of responsibility (to the PMC and Board)
>>> rather than authority over the PMC.
>>>
>>> > - Dennis
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>>> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>> >
>>> > Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>>> > tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>> >
>>> > You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>> >
>>> > How do we want to do this?
>>> >
>>> > A strawman proposal:
>>> >
>>> > 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>>> > someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>>> > nominations can be declined.
>>> >
>>> > 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>>> > are no sustained objections.
>>> >
>>> > 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>>> > another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>>> > subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>> >
>>> > 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>>> > then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>>> > would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>>> > would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>>> > run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>> >
>>> > Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > -Rob
>>> >
>>>
>>>
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 6:55 PM, Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I recollect correctly, Ross volunteered to work the roster issue on
> behalf of the PPMC and as one of more active mentors. He's pretty busy at
> the moment, but I think we can put this taskforward for his attention and
> action.
>
We're already doing this, on ooo-private. All PPMC members should be
monitoring that list or they will risk missing important threads.
-Rob
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>> wrote:
>
>> @sebb
>>
>> Yes, what you say about the position of the Chair (and also how the chair
>> accomplishes that as an officer of the ASF) was what I had in mind.
>>
>> With regard to the PPMC, here is a roster of the *current* PPMC (subject
>> to corrections anyone notices):
>>
>> Kai Ahrens : kahrens PPMC
>> Florent André : florent PPMC
>> Dave Barton : bmcs PPMC
>> Mathias Bauer : mbauer PPMC
>> Cyril Beaussier : bidouille PPMC
>> Stephan Bergmann : sb PPMC
>> Raphael Bircher : rbircher PPMC
>> Simon Brouwer : simonbr PPMC
>> Arthur Buijs : artietee PPMC
>> Jin Hua Chen : chenjinh PPMC
>> Jian Hong Cheng : chengjh PPMC
>> Ariel Constenla-Haile : arielch PPMC
>> Yuri Dario : ydario PPMC
>> Hagar Delest : hagar PPMC
>> Herbert Dürr : hdu PPMC
>> Claudio Filho : filhocf PPMC
>> Andre Fischer : af PPMC
>> David Fisher : wave PPMC
>> Thomas J. Frazier : tj PPMC
>> Roberto Galoppini : galoppini PPMC
>> Pedro Giffuni : pfg PPMC
>> Wolf Halton : wolfhalton PPMC
>> Dennis E. Hamilton : orcmid PPMC
>> Don Harbison : dpharbison PPMC
>> Regina Henschel : regina PPMC
>> Ivo Hinkelmann : ivo PPMC
>> Kazunari Hirano : khirano PPMC
>> Martin Hollmichel : mhollmichel PPMC
>> Jim Jagielski : jim PPMC
>> Drew Jensen : atjensen PPMC
>> Christoph Jopp : cjopp PPMC
>> Damjan Jovanovic : damjan PPMC
>> Peter Junge : pj PPMC
>> Yegor Kozlov : yegor PPMC
>> Marcus Lange : marcus PPMC
>> Graham Lauder : yo PPMC
>> Armin Le Grand : alg PPMC
>> Steve Lee : stevelee PPMC
>> Wang Lei : leiw PPMC
>> Christian Lippka : clippka PPMC
>> Ian Lynch : ingotian PPMC
>> Yong Lin Ma : mayongl PPMC
>> Carl Marcum : cmarcum PPMC
>> David McKay : thegurkha PPMC
>> Ingrid von der Mehden : ingrid PPMC
>> Antón Méixome : meixome PPMC
>> Maho Nakata : maho PPMC
>> Albino Neto : bino28 PPMC
>> Andrea Pescetti : pescetti PPMC
>> Frank Thomas Peters : fpe PPMC
>> Allen Pulsifer : apulsifer PPMC
>> Eike Rathke : erack PPMC
>> Manfred Reiter : fredao PPMC
>> Zoltán Reizinger : r4zoli PPMC
>> RGB.ES : rgb-es PPMC
>> Phillip Rhodes : prhodes PPMC
>> Andrew Rist : arist PPMC
>> Lawrence Rosen : lrosen PPMC
>> Roberto Salomon : salomon PPMC
>> Juan C. Sanz : jucasaca PPMC
>> Kay Schenk : kschenk PPMC
>> Jürgen Schmidt : jsc PPMC
>> Yang Shih-Ching : imacat PPMC
>> Jomar Silva : homembit PPMC
>> Kai Sommerfeld : kso PPMC
>> Louis Suárez-Potts : louis PPMC
>> Stefan Taxhet : st PPMC
>> Malte Timmermann : malte PPMC
>> Zhe Wang : wangzcdl PPMC
>> Rob Weir : robweir PPMC
>> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann : orw PPMC
>> Jian Fang Zhang : zhangjf PPMC
>> Xia Zhao : lilyzhao PPMC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:17
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>
>> On 23 August 2012 19:22, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org>
>> wrote:
>> > I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to
>> be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>
>> The initial proposed PMC for other podlings has usually been taken
>> from the PPMC membership, but dropping any inactive (or unwilling)
>> members.
>>
>> > Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all
>> here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what
>> the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special
>> standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>
>> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc-members
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>
>> The PMC chair is a position of responsibility (to the PMC and Board)
>> rather than authority over the PMC.
>>
>> > - Dennis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>> >
>> > Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>> > tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>> >
>> > You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>> >
>> > How do we want to do this?
>> >
>> > A strawman proposal:
>> >
>> > 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>> > someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>> > nominations can be declined.
>> >
>> > 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>> > are no sustained objections.
>> >
>> > 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>> > another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>> > subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>> >
>> > 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>> > then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>> > would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>> > would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>> > run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>> >
>> > Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > -Rob
>> >
>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Donald Harbison <dp...@gmail.com>.
If I recollect correctly, Ross volunteered to work the roster issue on
behalf of the PPMC and as one of more active mentors. He's pretty busy at
the moment, but I think we can put this taskforward for his attention and
action.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:58 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton <dennis.hamilton@acm.org
> wrote:
> @sebb
>
> Yes, what you say about the position of the Chair (and also how the chair
> accomplishes that as an officer of the ASF) was what I had in mind.
>
> With regard to the PPMC, here is a roster of the *current* PPMC (subject
> to corrections anyone notices):
>
> Kai Ahrens : kahrens PPMC
> Florent André : florent PPMC
> Dave Barton : bmcs PPMC
> Mathias Bauer : mbauer PPMC
> Cyril Beaussier : bidouille PPMC
> Stephan Bergmann : sb PPMC
> Raphael Bircher : rbircher PPMC
> Simon Brouwer : simonbr PPMC
> Arthur Buijs : artietee PPMC
> Jin Hua Chen : chenjinh PPMC
> Jian Hong Cheng : chengjh PPMC
> Ariel Constenla-Haile : arielch PPMC
> Yuri Dario : ydario PPMC
> Hagar Delest : hagar PPMC
> Herbert Dürr : hdu PPMC
> Claudio Filho : filhocf PPMC
> Andre Fischer : af PPMC
> David Fisher : wave PPMC
> Thomas J. Frazier : tj PPMC
> Roberto Galoppini : galoppini PPMC
> Pedro Giffuni : pfg PPMC
> Wolf Halton : wolfhalton PPMC
> Dennis E. Hamilton : orcmid PPMC
> Don Harbison : dpharbison PPMC
> Regina Henschel : regina PPMC
> Ivo Hinkelmann : ivo PPMC
> Kazunari Hirano : khirano PPMC
> Martin Hollmichel : mhollmichel PPMC
> Jim Jagielski : jim PPMC
> Drew Jensen : atjensen PPMC
> Christoph Jopp : cjopp PPMC
> Damjan Jovanovic : damjan PPMC
> Peter Junge : pj PPMC
> Yegor Kozlov : yegor PPMC
> Marcus Lange : marcus PPMC
> Graham Lauder : yo PPMC
> Armin Le Grand : alg PPMC
> Steve Lee : stevelee PPMC
> Wang Lei : leiw PPMC
> Christian Lippka : clippka PPMC
> Ian Lynch : ingotian PPMC
> Yong Lin Ma : mayongl PPMC
> Carl Marcum : cmarcum PPMC
> David McKay : thegurkha PPMC
> Ingrid von der Mehden : ingrid PPMC
> Antón Méixome : meixome PPMC
> Maho Nakata : maho PPMC
> Albino Neto : bino28 PPMC
> Andrea Pescetti : pescetti PPMC
> Frank Thomas Peters : fpe PPMC
> Allen Pulsifer : apulsifer PPMC
> Eike Rathke : erack PPMC
> Manfred Reiter : fredao PPMC
> Zoltán Reizinger : r4zoli PPMC
> RGB.ES : rgb-es PPMC
> Phillip Rhodes : prhodes PPMC
> Andrew Rist : arist PPMC
> Lawrence Rosen : lrosen PPMC
> Roberto Salomon : salomon PPMC
> Juan C. Sanz : jucasaca PPMC
> Kay Schenk : kschenk PPMC
> Jürgen Schmidt : jsc PPMC
> Yang Shih-Ching : imacat PPMC
> Jomar Silva : homembit PPMC
> Kai Sommerfeld : kso PPMC
> Louis Suárez-Potts : louis PPMC
> Stefan Taxhet : st PPMC
> Malte Timmermann : malte PPMC
> Zhe Wang : wangzcdl PPMC
> Rob Weir : robweir PPMC
> Oliver-Rainer Wittmann : orw PPMC
> Jian Fang Zhang : zhangjf PPMC
> Xia Zhao : lilyzhao PPMC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:17
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>
> On 23 August 2012 19:22, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org>
> wrote:
> > I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to
> be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>
> The initial proposed PMC for other podlings has usually been taken
> from the PPMC membership, but dropping any inactive (or unwilling)
> members.
>
> > Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all
> here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what
> the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special
> standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc-members
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> The PMC chair is a position of responsibility (to the PMC and Board)
> rather than authority over the PMC.
>
> > - Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
> >
> > Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
> > tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
> >
> > You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
> > http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
> >
> > How do we want to do this?
> >
> > A strawman proposal:
> >
> > 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
> > someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
> > nominations can be declined.
> >
> > 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
> > are no sustained objections.
> >
> > 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
> > another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
> > subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
> >
> > 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
> > then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
> > would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
> > would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
> > run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
> >
> > Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -Rob
> >
>
>
RE: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
@sebb
Yes, what you say about the position of the Chair (and also how the chair accomplishes that as an officer of the ASF) was what I had in mind.
With regard to the PPMC, here is a roster of the *current* PPMC (subject to corrections anyone notices):
Kai Ahrens : kahrens PPMC
Florent André : florent PPMC
Dave Barton : bmcs PPMC
Mathias Bauer : mbauer PPMC
Cyril Beaussier : bidouille PPMC
Stephan Bergmann : sb PPMC
Raphael Bircher : rbircher PPMC
Simon Brouwer : simonbr PPMC
Arthur Buijs : artietee PPMC
Jin Hua Chen : chenjinh PPMC
Jian Hong Cheng : chengjh PPMC
Ariel Constenla-Haile : arielch PPMC
Yuri Dario : ydario PPMC
Hagar Delest : hagar PPMC
Herbert Dürr : hdu PPMC
Claudio Filho : filhocf PPMC
Andre Fischer : af PPMC
David Fisher : wave PPMC
Thomas J. Frazier : tj PPMC
Roberto Galoppini : galoppini PPMC
Pedro Giffuni : pfg PPMC
Wolf Halton : wolfhalton PPMC
Dennis E. Hamilton : orcmid PPMC
Don Harbison : dpharbison PPMC
Regina Henschel : regina PPMC
Ivo Hinkelmann : ivo PPMC
Kazunari Hirano : khirano PPMC
Martin Hollmichel : mhollmichel PPMC
Jim Jagielski : jim PPMC
Drew Jensen : atjensen PPMC
Christoph Jopp : cjopp PPMC
Damjan Jovanovic : damjan PPMC
Peter Junge : pj PPMC
Yegor Kozlov : yegor PPMC
Marcus Lange : marcus PPMC
Graham Lauder : yo PPMC
Armin Le Grand : alg PPMC
Steve Lee : stevelee PPMC
Wang Lei : leiw PPMC
Christian Lippka : clippka PPMC
Ian Lynch : ingotian PPMC
Yong Lin Ma : mayongl PPMC
Carl Marcum : cmarcum PPMC
David McKay : thegurkha PPMC
Ingrid von der Mehden : ingrid PPMC
Antón Méixome : meixome PPMC
Maho Nakata : maho PPMC
Albino Neto : bino28 PPMC
Andrea Pescetti : pescetti PPMC
Frank Thomas Peters : fpe PPMC
Allen Pulsifer : apulsifer PPMC
Eike Rathke : erack PPMC
Manfred Reiter : fredao PPMC
Zoltán Reizinger : r4zoli PPMC
RGB.ES : rgb-es PPMC
Phillip Rhodes : prhodes PPMC
Andrew Rist : arist PPMC
Lawrence Rosen : lrosen PPMC
Roberto Salomon : salomon PPMC
Juan C. Sanz : jucasaca PPMC
Kay Schenk : kschenk PPMC
Jürgen Schmidt : jsc PPMC
Yang Shih-Ching : imacat PPMC
Jomar Silva : homembit PPMC
Kai Sommerfeld : kso PPMC
Louis Suárez-Potts : louis PPMC
Stefan Taxhet : st PPMC
Malte Timmermann : malte PPMC
Zhe Wang : wangzcdl PPMC
Rob Weir : robweir PPMC
Oliver-Rainer Wittmann : orw PPMC
Jian Fang Zhang : zhangjf PPMC
Xia Zhao : lilyzhao PPMC
-----Original Message-----
From: sebb [mailto:sebbaz@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 12:17
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org; dennis.hamilton@acm.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
On 23 August 2012 19:22, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org> wrote:
> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
The initial proposed PMC for other podlings has usually been taken
from the PPMC membership, but dropping any inactive (or unwilling)
members.
> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc-members
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
The PMC chair is a position of responsibility (to the PMC and Board)
rather than authority over the PMC.
> - Dennis
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>
> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>
> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> How do we want to do this?
>
> A strawman proposal:
>
> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
> nominations can be declined.
>
> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
> are no sustained objections.
>
> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>
> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>
> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On 23 August 2012 19:22, Dennis E. Hamilton <de...@acm.org> wrote:
> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
The initial proposed PMC for other podlings has usually been taken
from the PPMC membership, but dropping any inactive (or unwilling)
members.
> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html#pmc-members
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
The PMC chair is a position of responsibility (to the PMC and Board)
rather than authority over the PMC.
> - Dennis
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>
> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>
> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> How do we want to do this?
>
> A strawman proposal:
>
> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
> nominations can be declined.
>
> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
> are no sustained objections.
>
> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>
> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>
> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
>> <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>>
>>
>> There is a bootstrapping issue with that suggestion. The PMC does not
>> exist until the ASF Board creates it. And the Board has veto power
>> over that list. So all we have at this time, formally at least, is
>> the PPMC.
>
> No bootstrapping issue at all. The Charter Resolution consists of the PMC and the Chair. It is typically moved forward by the Chair as well.
>
> The Chair is a member of the PMC.
>
The proposed Chair is a proposed member of the proposed PMC. See the
difference? The question is: who determines what is proposed? The
proposed PMC? That there is your bootstrapping issue.
>>
>>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed. That is why my 2nd sentence was to point to a link that
>> describes exactly this.
>
> And after we review then we need to go into executive session on ooo-private. Even if there is only one volunteer someone may have legitimate personal questions that they need to ask.
>
> We also should take at least one week and not 72 hours.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>>> - Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>>
>>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>>
>>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>
>>> How do we want to do this?
>>>
>>> A strawman proposal:
>>>
>>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>>> nominations can be declined.
>>>
>>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>>> are no sustained objections.
>>>
>>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>>
>>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>>
>>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>
>
> There is a bootstrapping issue with that suggestion. The PMC does not
> exist until the ASF Board creates it. And the Board has veto power
> over that list. So all we have at this time, formally at least, is
> the PPMC.
No bootstrapping issue at all. The Charter Resolution consists of the PMC and the Chair. It is typically moved forward by the Chair as well.
The Chair is a member of the PMC.
>
>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>
>
> Indeed. That is why my 2nd sentence was to point to a link that
> describes exactly this.
And after we review then we need to go into executive session on ooo-private. Even if there is only one volunteer someone may have legitimate personal questions that they need to ask.
We also should take at least one week and not 72 hours.
Regards,
Dave
>
> -Rob
>
>> - Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>
>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>
>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>
>> How do we want to do this?
>>
>> A strawman proposal:
>>
>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>> nominations can be declined.
>>
>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>> are no sustained objections.
>>
>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>
>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>
>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:48 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<de...@acm.org> wrote:
> Funny.
>
> I imagine that if the Board were to take any surprising action, it would be by declining the request for approval of the TLP, along with recommendations for any cure.
>
> In any case, the board can veto anything, whether done in the open or not, whether the list of PMC is agreed or not. I suggest the idea is always for us to govern ourselves as a community, to respect the ASF policies and principles, and to respond to actions and instructions from the board however they come about.
>
> Having a public understanding of the proposed PMC membership followed then the designation of a Chair seems completely appropriate, despite the possibility of lightning bolts from on high.
>
> If there is to be determination of the recommended Chair by lazy consensus (and voting if necessary), should not the recommendation for the PMC also be brought forward for concurrence on ooo-dev?
>
It is all one graduation resolution. The IPMC will review it as such
and approve or disapprove it as a whole. The ASF Board will treat
it as such and approve it or disapprove it as a whole. I suggest we
do the same. Of course, if we find there is contention on any part of
the resolution then we can discuss that part separately. This is true
for all parts of the resolution, not just the PMC part of it. But I
would not assume in advance we will need to go through it, clause by
clause, in separate votes.
-Rob
> - Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:30
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
> <de...@acm.org> wrote:
>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>
>
> There is a bootstrapping issue with that suggestion. The PMC does not
> exist until the ASF Board creates it. And the Board has veto power
> over that list. So all we have at this time, formally at least, is
> the PPMC.
>
>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>
>
> Indeed. That is why my 2nd sentence was to point to a link that
> describes exactly this.
>
> -Rob
>
>> - Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>
>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>
>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>
>> How do we want to do this?
>>
>> A strawman proposal:
>>
>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>> nominations can be declined.
>>
>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>> are no sustained objections.
>>
>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>
>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>
>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
RE: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
Funny.
I imagine that if the Board were to take any surprising action, it would be by declining the request for approval of the TLP, along with recommendations for any cure.
In any case, the board can veto anything, whether done in the open or not, whether the list of PMC is agreed or not. I suggest the idea is always for us to govern ourselves as a community, to respect the ASF policies and principles, and to respond to actions and instructions from the board however they come about.
Having a public understanding of the proposed PMC membership followed then the designation of a Chair seems completely appropriate, despite the possibility of lightning bolts from on high.
If there is to be determination of the recommended Chair by lazy consensus (and voting if necessary), should not the recommendation for the PMC also be brought forward for concurrence on ooo-dev?
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:30
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<de...@acm.org> wrote:
> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>
There is a bootstrapping issue with that suggestion. The PMC does not
exist until the ASF Board creates it. And the Board has veto power
over that list. So all we have at this time, formally at least, is
the PPMC.
> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>
Indeed. That is why my 2nd sentence was to point to a link that
describes exactly this.
-Rob
> - Dennis
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>
> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>
> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> How do we want to do this?
>
> A strawman proposal:
>
> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
> nominations can be declined.
>
> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
> are no sustained objections.
>
> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>
> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>
> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton
<de...@acm.org> wrote:
> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>
There is a bootstrapping issue with that suggestion. The PMC does not
exist until the ASF Board creates it. And the Board has veto power
over that list. So all we have at this time, formally at least, is
the PPMC.
> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>
Indeed. That is why my 2nd sentence was to point to a link that
describes exactly this.
-Rob
> - Dennis
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>
> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>
> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> How do we want to do this?
>
> A strawman proposal:
>
> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
> nominations can be declined.
>
> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
> are no sustained objections.
>
> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>
> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>
> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 11:33:13 -0700
> Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>>
>> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>
>> > I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>> >
>> > Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>> >
>> > - Dennis
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>> >
>> > Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>> > tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>> >
>> > You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>> > http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>> >
>> > How do we want to do this?
>> >
>> > A strawman proposal:
>> >
>> > 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>> > someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>> > nominations can be declined.
>> >
>> > 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>> > are no sustained objections.
>> >
>> > 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>> > another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>> > subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>> >
>> > 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>> > then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>> > would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>> > would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>> > run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>> >
>> > Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > -Rob
>> >
>>
>>
> This seems to be a "chicken and egg" situation. Normally a committee will elect a Chair from its membership. If a Chair is imposed from outside, either by specific election or appointment by a governing body, then is he a full member of the committee, with all rights and privileges of membership? Take a theoretical case - a chair is specifically elected or appointed; he is extra to the committee. Then, for reasons of health say, he decides he can not continue to act as chair; does he lose his position on the committee or does he remain on the committee, increasing its number by one over the statutory structure? One could see this process repeating to "pack" the committee with extra members over and above the statutory structure. Does the procedure for appointing a chair start again, with a new chair elected or nominated? It seems to me, wih many years of commttee work behind me, that one first needs to elect the committee, who then, from their number, nominate a candidate or ca
> ndidates for chair. These nominees are either filtered out by an election process (whether of the committee or of the wider membership of the association, depending on the rules) until a sole person remains. If the governing body have reservations about the suitability of any candidate, the time for these to be expressed is before the filtration process, and preferably privately before the list of candidates is issued publicly.
>
> My remarks above are general, not based on any existing rules of any specific organisation. I'm trying to show what seems to me the necessary logic.
>
Good observations. But I think in the end we need to put consensus
over process. Not that we abuse process, by any means. But if we
arrive at a result that can only be defended on procedural grounds,
but is not based on the consensus of the community, then our
graduation resolution will receive some strong, well-deserved scrutiny
from the IPMC and the ASF Board.
In other words, if these decisions are adversarial in nature, and
require fine policy arguments to resolve, then that would be a a
warning sign that we may not ready to graduate. Instead I hope we'll
face difficulties of another kind: the hard decision to pick from
among several qualified nominees.
-Rob
> --
> Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>.
On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 11:33:13 -0700
Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>
> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
> > I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
> >
> > Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
> >
> > - Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
> > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
> >
> > Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
> > tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
> >
> > You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
> > http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
> >
> > How do we want to do this?
> >
> > A strawman proposal:
> >
> > 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
> > someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
> > nominations can be declined.
> >
> > 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
> > are no sustained objections.
> >
> > 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
> > another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
> > subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
> >
> > 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
> > then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
> > would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
> > would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
> > run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
> >
> > Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -Rob
> >
>
>
This seems to be a "chicken and egg" situation. Normally a committee will elect a Chair from its membership. If a Chair is imposed from outside, either by specific election or appointment by a governing body, then is he a full member of the committee, with all rights and privileges of membership? Take a theoretical case - a chair is specifically elected or appointed; he is extra to the committee. Then, for reasons of health say, he decides he can not continue to act as chair; does he lose his position on the committee or does he remain on the committee, increasing its number by one over the statutory structure? One could see this process repeating to "pack" the committee with extra members over and above the statutory structure. Does the procedure for appointing a chair start again, with a new chair elected or nominated? It seems to me, wih many years of commttee work behind me, that one first needs to elect the committee, who then, from their number, nominate a candidate or ca
ndidates for chair. These nominees are either filtered out by an election process (whether of the committee or of the wider membership of the association, depending on the rules) until a sole person remains. If the governing body have reservations about the suitability of any candidate, the time for these to be expressed is before the filtration process, and preferably privately before the list of candidates is issued publicly.
My remarks above are general, not based on any existing rules of any specific organisation. I'm trying to show what seems to me the necessary logic.
--
Rory O'Farrell <of...@iol.ie>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 23 August 2012 19:49, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It appears the IPMC was able to do this for their own Chair.
>>>
>>>> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>>>>
>>>
>>> See my response to Dennis on this. There is no PMC here, only a PPMC.
>>>
>>
>> Or maybe think of it this way; in the end we're deciding on a
>> graduation resolution that has three main items: a scope, a PMC and a
>> PMC Chair. This is a single resolution. Whose votes are binding on
>> whether to send this resolution to the IPMC? The proposed PMC you
>> think? That would be circular. Five of us could then just nominate
>> ourselves as the PMC, vote a Chair and send that along. IMHO, we
>> should base this in the ASF governance, which is PPMC appointed by
>> IPMC, created by the ASF Board, which are elected by the ASF Members.
>> Creating a new voting body out of nothing does not seem ideal.
>
> Now I understand the confusion. The PPMC is responsible for all three of the main items. Then the IPMC is responsible. Then the Board.
>
> The Chair coming from the PMC is not the same as the PMC electing the Chair.
Exactly. Don't get too caught up in whose votes are binding and whose
are not. Votes are for conflict resolution not decision making. The
PPMC, even though it doesn't formally have binding votes on anything
is still the body that is expected to make the decisions. The
formality (which is a requirement of law) will, almost without
exception, follow the wishes of the PPMC in matters such as this.
Really, the order of creating the PPMC, PMC roster and the resolution
isn't really important. What is important is that the community unites
around the final resolution.
Ross
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:41 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>>>
>>
>> It appears the IPMC was able to do this for their own Chair.
>>
>>> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>>>
>>
>> See my response to Dennis on this. There is no PMC here, only a PPMC.
>>
>
> Or maybe think of it this way; in the end we're deciding on a
> graduation resolution that has three main items: a scope, a PMC and a
> PMC Chair. This is a single resolution. Whose votes are binding on
> whether to send this resolution to the IPMC? The proposed PMC you
> think? That would be circular. Five of us could then just nominate
> ourselves as the PMC, vote a Chair and send that along. IMHO, we
> should base this in the ASF governance, which is PPMC appointed by
> IPMC, created by the ASF Board, which are elected by the ASF Members.
> Creating a new voting body out of nothing does not seem ideal.
Now I understand the confusion. The PPMC is responsible for all three of the main items. Then the IPMC is responsible. Then the Board.
The Chair coming from the PMC is not the same as the PMC electing the Chair.
Regards,
Dave
>
> -Rob
>
>>> Regards,
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>>
>>>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>>>
>>>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>>>
>>>> - Dennis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>>>
>>>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>>>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>>>
>>>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>>
>>>> How do we want to do this?
>>>>
>>>> A strawman proposal:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>>>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>>>> nominations can be declined.
>>>>
>>>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>>>> are no sustained objections.
>>>>
>>>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>>>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>>>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>>>
>>>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>>>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>>>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>>>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>>>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>>>
>>>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> -Rob
>>>>
>>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>>
>
> It appears the IPMC was able to do this for their own Chair.
>
>> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>>
>
> See my response to Dennis on this. There is no PMC here, only a PPMC.
>
Or maybe think of it this way; in the end we're deciding on a
graduation resolution that has three main items: a scope, a PMC and a
PMC Chair. This is a single resolution. Whose votes are binding on
whether to send this resolution to the IPMC? The proposed PMC you
think? That would be circular. Five of us could then just nominate
ourselves as the PMC, vote a Chair and send that along. IMHO, we
should base this in the ASF governance, which is PPMC appointed by
IPMC, created by the ASF Board, which are elected by the ASF Members.
Creating a new voting body out of nothing does not seem ideal.
-Rob
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>>
>>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>>
>>> - Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>>
>>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>>
>>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>
>>> How do we want to do this?
>>>
>>> A strawman proposal:
>>>
>>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>>> nominations can be declined.
>>>
>>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>>> are no sustained objections.
>>>
>>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>>
>>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>>
>>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>
RE: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
I'm going over my daily quota on this thread. One clarification and then no more for today:
I never suggested that the *proposed* PMC be the body that recommends the chair. The only body here that deals with personnel matters and other matters requiring binding votes on the project is the PPMC.
There is no PPMC chair. There is to be a PMC and a PMC Chair as part of creating the TLP. Those are offered up by recommendation from the PPMC (with the concurrence of the Incubator PMC, one presumes).
I agree that this should be done as transparently as possible, even though ultimately the PPMC is responsible (with regard to the recommendation to the Board).
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 11:47
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:35 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>>
>
> It appears the IPMC was able to do this for their own Chair.
Well they were able to reach consensus, but this was after a very, very long set of discussions that backed into selecting a new Chair. The discussion was not initially about the Chair.
>
>> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>>
>
> See my response to Dennis on this. There is no PMC here, only a PPMC.
Certainly and already replied. Maybe we should just call it the once and future PMC and stop having a silly semantic argument.
I've written what I want to say about this today and will now go back to work.
Regards,
Dave
>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>>
>>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>>
>>> - Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>>
>>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>>
>>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>
>>> How do we want to do this?
>>>
>>> A strawman proposal:
>>>
>>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>>> nominations can be declined.
>>>
>>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>>> are no sustained objections.
>>>
>>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>>
>>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>>
>>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:35 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>>
>
> It appears the IPMC was able to do this for their own Chair.
Well they were able to reach consensus, but this was after a very, very long set of discussions that backed into selecting a new Chair. The discussion was not initially about the Chair.
>
>> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>>
>
> See my response to Dennis on this. There is no PMC here, only a PPMC.
Certainly and already replied. Maybe we should just call it the once and future PMC and stop having a silly semantic argument.
I've written what I want to say about this today and will now go back to work.
Regards,
Dave
>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>
>>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>>
>>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>>
>>> - Dennis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>>
>>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>>
>>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>>
>>> How do we want to do this?
>>>
>>> A strawman proposal:
>>>
>>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>>> nominations can be declined.
>>>
>>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>>> are no sustained objections.
>>>
>>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>>
>>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>>
>>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 2:33 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
>
It appears the IPMC was able to do this for their own Chair.
> I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
>
See my response to Dennis on this. There is no PMC here, only a PPMC.
> Regards,
> Dave
>
> On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>
>> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>>
>> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>>
>> - Dennis
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
>> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
>> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>>
>> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
>> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>>
>> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
>> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>>
>> How do we want to do this?
>>
>> A strawman proposal:
>>
>> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
>> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
>> nominations can be declined.
>>
>> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
>> are no sustained objections.
>>
>> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
>> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
>> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>>
>> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
>> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
>> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
>> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
>> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>>
>> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>
Re: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>.
I'm not comfortable having a PMC Chair election and nomination on ooo-dev.
I also agree that we should form the PMC membership first.
Regards,
Dave
On Aug 23, 2012, at 11:22 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
> I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
>
> Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
>
> - Dennis
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
>
> Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
> tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
>
> You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
> http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
>
> How do we want to do this?
>
> A strawman proposal:
>
> 1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
> someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
> nominations can be declined.
>
> 2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
> are no sustained objections.
>
> 3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
> another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
> subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
>
> 4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
> then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
> would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
> would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
> run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
>
> Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
>
> Regards,
>
> -Rob
>
RE: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
I suggest that the initial Project Management Committee (PMC) needs to be identified before the election of a Chair from that body is undertaken.
Also, this seems like a very good time to review, for the benefit of all here, what the duties of PMC members are and, with respect to that, what the specific responsibilities of the Chair are and what the special standing of the Chair is so its accountability can be carried out.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Weir [mailto:robweir@apache.org]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 10:36
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: [DISCUSS] Proposed PMC Chair nomination process
Now that the community graduation ballot has passed, one of our next
tasks is to identify a PMC Chair.
You can read about the duties of a PMC Chair here:
http://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html#chair
How do we want to do this?
A strawman proposal:
1) Nominations would be open for 72 hours. Anyone can nominate
someone for the role. Self-nominations are fine. And of course
nominations can be declined.
2) If there is only one nomination, then we are done, provided there
are no sustained objections.
3) If there is more than one nomination we discuss on the list for
another 72 hours. Discussion would primarily be on ooo-dev, but some
subjects might be directed to ooo-private.
4) If after 72-hours discussion there are still two or more nominees
then we vote. Everyone would be welcome to vote, but binding votes
would be from PPMC members. If there are more than 2 candidates we
would probably need to use a more complicated voting system, or have a
run-off vote if none of the nominees receive an outright majority.
Any improvements or alternatives to this basic scheme?
Regards,
-Rob