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Posted to java-user@axis.apache.org by "Galbreath, Mark A" <Ga...@state.gov> on 2004/05/14 14:17:20 UTC
RE: Project from hell?
Ok, here's the deal. I have a legacy Web app that uses applets in the
presentation layer for the client/server communication. The applets capture
input from the user (userid, password, etc.), sends it to the server for
validation, and the server returns another applet with application options
permitted by the user's security level, and so on and so on. The rub is
that this app is installed in every single US consular post and embassy in
the world (around 550 posts). At predetermined times the post databases
synch to the main database in Washington,
DC....hopefully...telecommunications in some places are not very reliable.
What I have been tasked to investigate is the possibility of wrapping this
app in a Web service so that all the post installations could be
consolidated into one place in Washington and the posts could then use the
app with only a browser (light client), and have the advantages of message
queuing.
Does this sound doable to you guys?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Dournaee [mailto:blake@sarvega.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 PM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Cc: GalbreathMA@state.gov
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Hi Mark,
I have a comment/clarifying question on your statement here. I suppose I'm
trying to understand your motivation for doing this (other than the fact
that a browser happens to be a useful tool for testing XML-based web
services).
If you want to access a Web Service from a web browser, what is your use
case?
Suppose for instance you were invoking an XML web service with visual / form
data. So a user enters some inputs (whatever these may be) and they get
packed into a SOAP request by the browser and sent. Then, the browser
receives the response from the service and unpacks the XML and renders it.
This use-case seems to be doing a lot of extra work when you can accomplish
the same result with a plain web application.
Can you clarify? I've heard people mention browser/XML-web services
interactions, but most of these came from people confusing "service on the
web" with "xml web service."
Thanks,
Blake Dournaee
Sarvega, Inc.
http://www.sarvega.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:40 PM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I truely wish to access a Web service from a browser. However I can make
that happen.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Plautz [mailto:joep@customcall.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:36 PM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: Best Practices?
I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Are you trying to
create a web app that uses a web service backend, or do you truely wish to
access a web service from a browser?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Galbreath, Mark A" <Ga...@state.gov>
To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I've been trying that route but have had no success yet. I'll try it again
without using Struts.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Pridemore, Russell (MAN-Corporate) [mailto:Russell.Pridemore@cox.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:09 PM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I've seen this question come up before on this list, but don't quite follow
the reasoning.
AFAIK, Mozilla is the only browser that can natively consume SOAP, and then
only
with fairly recent builds and there are several restrictions. Web services,
in general,
seem to be at a lower level, not intended for direct consumption by an
end-user
(through a browser).
That said, however, there is nothing stopping you from writing a fairly
simple servlet
that accesses a web service and returns the data as HTML to a browser...
Russ
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:57 AM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
How about something that should have been documented from the beginning: how
to wrap an existing application in a Web service and access it with a
browser?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int [mailto:luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:50 AM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Hi Andrew,
I started to write a tutorial on how to create a web service using Axis and
Ant.
The tutorial is also taking in consideration attachments and I believe it
would fit into a Axis beginners page.
Luciano
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Premdas [ mailto:Andrew.Premdas@man.ac.uk
<ma...@man.ac.uk> ]
Sent: Thursday 13 May 2004 15:58
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org; dims@apache.org
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Yes otherwise I wouldn't have posted. However I have
1) Little knowledge
2) Not a great deal of time (day job too)
So I'm happy to
1) Review any documentation that is newbie orientated
2) Create a newbie pathway.
My initial thoughts are to create a newbie trails page on the wiki and start
from there.
Comments?
-----Original Message-----
From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>
]
Sent: 13 May 2004 14:06
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: Best Practices?
Next question: Are u willing to help? As u know all committers have day jobs
:)
thanks,
dims
On Thu, 13 May 2004 10:43:09 +0100, Andrew Premdas
<an...@man.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> My 2c as a newbie.
>
> No.1 thing for a better Axis - much better documentation!!
> No.2 thing, better ease of use
>
> For a newbie, Web Services and Axis are something of a minefield, through
> which there are no clear marked paths. The docs sell .jws when really all
> its good for is persauding people web services are much easier than they
> actually are ... was going to list other faults of docs but instead ...
>
> How to improve docs:
>
> Provide a number of real world scenarios that clearly illustrate the
> development of production quality web services. Start with something
simple
> and then move on from there. Explain why things are being done in a
certain
> way.
>
> StockQuote, ServiceSendingAttachment, ServiceSendingComplexType ...
>
> Provide examples of different ways of working with Axis and explain their
> merits
>
> jws, interface -> java2wdsl -> wsdl2java, wsdl by hand, wsdl2java,
>
> Explain clearly key web services issues
> xml-oo mismatch, ...
>
> Provide a number of clear paths through these areas, perhaps following a
> format like the java tutorial.
>
> How to improve ease of use:
>
> Improve, or at the very least clearly document the command line interface
> tools - wsdl2java, java2wsdl. Document the ant tasks and provide good
> examples of usage. Provide default log4j configurations inbuilt into the
> command line tools, so if they can't find a properties file on the command
> line they will at least log to the console. Perhaps add a command line
> switch (oh no another one) to set logging level.
>
> None of this is particularly glamorous, but the reason this thread started
> is because much of this doesn't exist and people need clearer guidance
about
> how to get the best out of Axis.
>
> All best
>
> Andy
>
> Andrew Premdas
> Student Systems Developer
> Manchester University
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com
<ma...@gmail.com> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:14 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Best Practices?
>
> Let's twist this discussion on its head....
> - Is there a list of bugs hiding in there somewhere? (bug reports)
> - What would you do if you were to write/re-write parts of axis?
> (enhancements requests)
>
> If we can't create new bug reports / enchancements to tell axis
> developers how axis should behave in the future (1.2 Final) then all
> discussion is just water under the bridge.
>
> thanks,
> -- dims
>
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:12:44 -0500, Joe Plautz <jo...@customcall.com>
wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the advice! This is exactly what I've been looking for.
> >
> > It almost seems that people end up using Axis inspite of itself. But,
it's
> > just too dang easy to get something up and running. I imagine JWS files
> have
> > lead many people astray with their simplicity. If all services could
work
> > like them, plus using user defined objects/type with little to no
> > configuration. The world would be a fabulous place.
> >
> > I too have been not tying my service layer to my DAO layer. My reasons
are
> > more personal preferrance then need. But, I can take my DAO and put it
> > behind something else with little changing except creating a new broker.
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anderson Jonathan" <an...@bah.com>
> > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:03 AM
> > Subject: RE: Best Practices?
> >
> > > I would venture to say that 80% of the complications and frustrations
> > > implementing interoperable (WS-I compliant Doc/Literal) SOAP web
> services
> > on
> > > Java platforms stem from the XML datatype to Java datatype binding
> > problem.
> > >
> > > If you take the time to learn W3C XML Schema, you'll see the problem:
> it's
> > > not an OO type system. Therefore modeling your data types in Java and
> > > expecting some automagic Java2WSDL utility to do all of the hard work
to
> > > generate your XML schema is naive, and it is unfortunate that so many
OO
> > > developers think this way.
> > >
> > > I've encountered several approaches for dealing with this problem with
> > > Axis - virtually all of them involve hand crafting your WSDL and XSD
> (with
> > a
> > > WSDL/XSD IDE, of course) and generating a Java type system using ***a
> > > particular Java XML binding engine***. Using Axis's internal XML
> binding
> > > engine is one of several options available to you.
> > >
> > > For more info on the XML binding problem in Java, I defer to Dennis
> > Sosnoski
> > > (www.sosnoski.com), a long-time XML deep thinker. He first turned me
> onto
> > > the XML data binding "problem" with his excellent articles (4 parts)
on
> > the
> > > issues over at IBM developerWorks.
> > >
> > > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html
<http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html>
> > >
> > > If you're trying to use Axis's internal XML binding engine, here's
some
> > > advice:
> > >
> > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user
<http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=107945370506044&w=2>
&m=107945370506044&w=2
> > >
> > > We've since moved away from this approach, and are currently using
> Axis's
> > > Message Style services to pass the SOAP Request Body DOM straight to
> > Castor,
> > > which unmarshalls the XML into a Castor generated type system. We
> further
> > > introduced a broker pattern to abstract the SOAP messaging layer from
> our
> > > business layer, which currently is not tied to any XSD generated
types.
> > >
> > > Axis Message Style Service Implementation ->
> > > Service Broker Layer (unmarshalls SOAP Request DOM via Castor,
extracts
> > the
> > > necessary information from Castor types - literally traversing the
> graph's
> > > getters - to invoke Business Manager Layer, and catches Business
> > Exceptions
> > > and maps them to proper SOAP Faults using AxisFault)->
> > > Business Manager Layer (not tied to XSD types, but rather pure Java
> > business
> > > domain types, invokes DAO layer as needed) ->
> > > DAO Layer (a Spring/Hibernate layer to manage persistence for business
> > > domain types)
> > >
> > > The problem here is definitely managing and translating between the
two
> > type
> > > systems: Castor generated classes from XSD and non-generated Business
> > Domain
> > > classes.
> > >
> > > The alternative, however, is to just try to use the XSD generated type
> > > system and persist that directly. This is too big of a leap for us
> right
> > > now, as our business layer doesn't "think" in pure XSD type terms.
> You'll
> > > probably encounter this a lot given how much legacy functionality
people
> > are
> > > trying to SOAP service enable.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: implementing a WS-I compliant SOAP service in Java is not
a
> > > trivial thing. There are two types of people building Web Services in
> > Java:
> > > those who are extremely frustrated with the completely stupid state of
> the
> > > Java based Web Services world right now and yet still trying very hard
> to
> > do
> > > it right, and those who haven't grasped that world is in a completely
> > stupid
> > > state right now.
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
<ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:02 AM
> > > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > My first attemps have started with a WSDL/Schema then I generate
> > everything.
> > > I was able to find an example at W3.org and I just manipulate it to
the
> > way
> > > I need it. I thought this to be the best way at the time because of
> > > interoperability.
> > >
> > > From what I've been finding thus far there are no "Standard"
practices,
> > just
> > > "Accepted" practices. Starting with a class then using Java2WSDL and
> then
> > > WSDL2Java seems to be the most common. But, it almost seems that this
> was
> > > not the intention of the designers of Axis. Why use two steps when you
> can
> > > use one? Creating a WSDL from scratch seems like the intended way, but
> is
> > > not the most accepted way by the developers/users of Axis. Why write
> what
> > > you can generate?
> > >
> > > I know this isn't difficult earth shattering stuff, I'm just looking
for
> > the
> > > best way of doing this. So, when I start working with other people to
> > create
> > > services, we're doing it the "right" way.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dorner Thomas" <th...@edmb.debis.com>
> > > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:01 AM
> > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > You are right - if you will do a interoperable webservice
> > > that deal with other clients (.Net ...) its better to go from the
> > > wsdl.
> > >
> > > But when i use String, int and so on and i generate a wsdl by
> > > java2wsdl, I hope the wsdl i get, depends on the standard spec.
> > > for wsdl!????
> > >
> > > So there should no problem to use the wsdl by other languages!???
> > >
> > > Dont know how it looks with complex datatypes!????
> > >
> > > Do you all write your own wsdl by hand????
> > >
> > > Tomi
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: David Cunningham [ mailto:david.cunningham@dcdominion.com
<ma...@dcdominion.com> ]
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 13:14
> > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Betreff: RE: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > I disagree, the right way is to start with your WSDL and schema files.
> If
> > > you want any hope of being WS-I compliant or using doc/literal this is
> > your
> > > best bet. As soon as you start with an interface, you start dealing
Java
> > > types that do not correlate to schema types very well. For example, if
> you
> > > use: public List getStuff() or public String[] getStuff(), you will
> either
> > > generate a WSDL file that can't be parsed properly by other consumers
> > (.NET,
> > > Glue, etc) or be bound to Java collection types that have no chance of
> > being
> > > parsed properly by .Net (without a lot of hacking around).
> > >
> > > My recommendation, again personal preference, is always give thought
to
> > the
> > > XML that is going across the wire and what you are trying to
> send/receive
> > > and in what structure. This is especially important when dealing with
> > > doc/literal since you are sending a single document over the wire.
> > >
> > > - david
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dorner Thomas [ mailto:thomas.dorner@edmb.debis.com
<ma...@edmb.debis.com> ]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 AM
> > > To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > >
> > > The right way is to write a interface which includes all the Methods
> your
> > > webservice should offer.
> > >
> > > Then you use java2wsdl to generate your wsdl. You have to correct your
> > > parameternames in your auto generated wsdl, cause the the params looks
> > like
> > > in0, in1, in2... .
> > >
> > > Then you use wsdl2java to generate your stub, locator, skeleton, impl
> and
> > > maybe a testclient.
> > >
> > > Now you can implement and deploy your Service by unsing the addtional
> > > generated .wsdd files.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps you
> > >
> > > Tomi
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
<ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Mai 2004 18:48
> > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Betreff: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm a newbie looking for guidance in creating WebServices with Axis.
> I've
> > > gone through the documentation backwards and forwards and have come up
> > with
> > > me own ways of doing things. I start with a WSDL that I create and use
> > > WSDL2Java to generate the code and go from there. What I'm looking for
> is
> > a
> > > best practices because I don't feel confident in the way I am going
> about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Do most people start from a WSDL? Do people generate a WSDL from an
> > > interface and go from there? Do people just create a class and a WSDD
> > file?
> > > Or, do people use JWS files that accept a string and the string
contains
> > xml
> > > formated text?
> > >
> > > If there are any sites that cover this information, please forward
them
> on
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Any help will be appreciated!!!
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Joe Plautz
> > > joep@customcall.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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RE: Project from hell?
Posted by Anne Thomas Manes <an...@manes.net>.
Mark,
It's touch to get a SOAP runtime to run in an applet. If that's what you
really want to do, I suggest that you use the Wingfoot SOAP 1.06 client
package (see http://www.wingfoot.com/index.jsp). It's free for commercial
use. (at least it used to be -- but I haven't verified)
I don't know its status in terms of interop or WS-I BP compliance, but it's
a small, lightweight Java SOAP client.
Your other option is to have the returned applet call a Web service through
its server. The applet would still have all the appropriate security
limitations, and the server could verify the security levels on every call.
Anne
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 8:17 AM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Project from hell?
Ok, here's the deal. I have a legacy Web app that uses applets in the
presentation layer for the client/server communication. The applets capture
input from the user (userid, password, etc.), sends it to the server for
validation, and the server returns another applet with application options
permitted by the user's security level, and so on and so on. The rub is
that this app is installed in every single US consular post and embassy in
the world (around 550 posts). At predetermined times the post databases
synch to the main database in Washington,
DC....hopefully...telecommunications in some places are not very reliable.
What I have been tasked to investigate is the possibility of wrapping this
app in a Web service so that all the post installations could be
consolidated into one place in Washington and the posts could then use the
app with only a browser (light client), and have the advantages of message
queuing.
Does this sound doable to you guys?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Dournaee [mailto:blake@sarvega.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 PM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Cc: GalbreathMA@state.gov
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Hi Mark,
I have a comment/clarifying question on your statement here. I suppose I'm
trying to understand your motivation for doing this (other than the fact
that a browser happens to be a useful tool for testing XML-based web
services).
If you want to access a Web Service from a web browser, what is your use
case?
Suppose for instance you were invoking an XML web service with visual / form
data. So a user enters some inputs (whatever these may be) and they get
packed into a SOAP request by the browser and sent. Then, the browser
receives the response from the service and unpacks the XML and renders it.
This use-case seems to be doing a lot of extra work when you can accomplish
the same result with a plain web application.
Can you clarify? I've heard people mention browser/XML-web services
interactions, but most of these came from people confusing "service on the
web" with "xml web service."
Thanks,
Blake Dournaee
Sarvega, Inc.
http://www.sarvega.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:40 PM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I truely wish to access a Web service from a browser. However I can make
that happen.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Plautz [mailto:joep@customcall.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:36 PM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: Best Practices?
I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Are you trying to
create a web app that uses a web service backend, or do you truely wish to
access a web service from a browser?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Galbreath, Mark A" <Ga...@state.gov>
To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I've been trying that route but have had no success yet. I'll try it again
without using Struts.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Pridemore, Russell (MAN-Corporate) [mailto:Russell.Pridemore@cox.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:09 PM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I've seen this question come up before on this list, but don't quite follow
the reasoning.
AFAIK, Mozilla is the only browser that can natively consume SOAP, and then
only
with fairly recent builds and there are several restrictions. Web services,
in general,
seem to be at a lower level, not intended for direct consumption by an
end-user
(through a browser).
That said, however, there is nothing stopping you from writing a fairly
simple servlet
that accesses a web service and returns the data as HTML to a browser...
Russ
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:57 AM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
How about something that should have been documented from the beginning: how
to wrap an existing application in a Web service and access it with a
browser?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int [mailto:luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:50 AM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Hi Andrew,
I started to write a tutorial on how to create a web service using Axis and
Ant.
The tutorial is also taking in consideration attachments and I believe it
would fit into a Axis beginners page.
Luciano
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Premdas [ mailto:Andrew.Premdas@man.ac.uk
<ma...@man.ac.uk> ]
Sent: Thursday 13 May 2004 15:58
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org; dims@apache.org
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Yes otherwise I wouldn't have posted. However I have
1) Little knowledge
2) Not a great deal of time (day job too)
So I'm happy to
1) Review any documentation that is newbie orientated
2) Create a newbie pathway.
My initial thoughts are to create a newbie trails page on the wiki and start
from there.
Comments?
-----Original Message-----
From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>
]
Sent: 13 May 2004 14:06
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: Best Practices?
Next question: Are u willing to help? As u know all committers have day jobs
:)
thanks,
dims
On Thu, 13 May 2004 10:43:09 +0100, Andrew Premdas
<an...@man.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> My 2c as a newbie.
>
> No.1 thing for a better Axis - much better documentation!!
> No.2 thing, better ease of use
>
> For a newbie, Web Services and Axis are something of a minefield, through
> which there are no clear marked paths. The docs sell .jws when really all
> its good for is persauding people web services are much easier than they
> actually are ... was going to list other faults of docs but instead ...
>
> How to improve docs:
>
> Provide a number of real world scenarios that clearly illustrate the
> development of production quality web services. Start with something
simple
> and then move on from there. Explain why things are being done in a
certain
> way.
>
> StockQuote, ServiceSendingAttachment, ServiceSendingComplexType ...
>
> Provide examples of different ways of working with Axis and explain their
> merits
>
> jws, interface -> java2wdsl -> wsdl2java, wsdl by hand, wsdl2java,
>
> Explain clearly key web services issues
> xml-oo mismatch, ...
>
> Provide a number of clear paths through these areas, perhaps following a
> format like the java tutorial.
>
> How to improve ease of use:
>
> Improve, or at the very least clearly document the command line interface
> tools - wsdl2java, java2wsdl. Document the ant tasks and provide good
> examples of usage. Provide default log4j configurations inbuilt into the
> command line tools, so if they can't find a properties file on the command
> line they will at least log to the console. Perhaps add a command line
> switch (oh no another one) to set logging level.
>
> None of this is particularly glamorous, but the reason this thread started
> is because much of this doesn't exist and people need clearer guidance
about
> how to get the best out of Axis.
>
> All best
>
> Andy
>
> Andrew Premdas
> Student Systems Developer
> Manchester University
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com
<ma...@gmail.com> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:14 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Best Practices?
>
> Let's twist this discussion on its head....
> - Is there a list of bugs hiding in there somewhere? (bug reports)
> - What would you do if you were to write/re-write parts of axis?
> (enhancements requests)
>
> If we can't create new bug reports / enchancements to tell axis
> developers how axis should behave in the future (1.2 Final) then all
> discussion is just water under the bridge.
>
> thanks,
> -- dims
>
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:12:44 -0500, Joe Plautz <jo...@customcall.com>
wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the advice! This is exactly what I've been looking for.
> >
> > It almost seems that people end up using Axis inspite of itself. But,
it's
> > just too dang easy to get something up and running. I imagine JWS files
> have
> > lead many people astray with their simplicity. If all services could
work
> > like them, plus using user defined objects/type with little to no
> > configuration. The world would be a fabulous place.
> >
> > I too have been not tying my service layer to my DAO layer. My reasons
are
> > more personal preferrance then need. But, I can take my DAO and put it
> > behind something else with little changing except creating a new broker.
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anderson Jonathan" <an...@bah.com>
> > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:03 AM
> > Subject: RE: Best Practices?
> >
> > > I would venture to say that 80% of the complications and frustrations
> > > implementing interoperable (WS-I compliant Doc/Literal) SOAP web
> services
> > on
> > > Java platforms stem from the XML datatype to Java datatype binding
> > problem.
> > >
> > > If you take the time to learn W3C XML Schema, you'll see the problem:
> it's
> > > not an OO type system. Therefore modeling your data types in Java and
> > > expecting some automagic Java2WSDL utility to do all of the hard work
to
> > > generate your XML schema is naive, and it is unfortunate that so many
OO
> > > developers think this way.
> > >
> > > I've encountered several approaches for dealing with this problem with
> > > Axis - virtually all of them involve hand crafting your WSDL and XSD
> (with
> > a
> > > WSDL/XSD IDE, of course) and generating a Java type system using ***a
> > > particular Java XML binding engine***. Using Axis's internal XML
> binding
> > > engine is one of several options available to you.
> > >
> > > For more info on the XML binding problem in Java, I defer to Dennis
> > Sosnoski
> > > (www.sosnoski.com), a long-time XML deep thinker. He first turned me
> onto
> > > the XML data binding "problem" with his excellent articles (4 parts)
on
> > the
> > > issues over at IBM developerWorks.
> > >
> > > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html
<http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html>
> > >
> > > If you're trying to use Axis's internal XML binding engine, here's
some
> > > advice:
> > >
> > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user
<http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=107945370506044&w=2>
&m=107945370506044&w=2
> > >
> > > We've since moved away from this approach, and are currently using
> Axis's
> > > Message Style services to pass the SOAP Request Body DOM straight to
> > Castor,
> > > which unmarshalls the XML into a Castor generated type system. We
> further
> > > introduced a broker pattern to abstract the SOAP messaging layer from
> our
> > > business layer, which currently is not tied to any XSD generated
types.
> > >
> > > Axis Message Style Service Implementation ->
> > > Service Broker Layer (unmarshalls SOAP Request DOM via Castor,
extracts
> > the
> > > necessary information from Castor types - literally traversing the
> graph's
> > > getters - to invoke Business Manager Layer, and catches Business
> > Exceptions
> > > and maps them to proper SOAP Faults using AxisFault)->
> > > Business Manager Layer (not tied to XSD types, but rather pure Java
> > business
> > > domain types, invokes DAO layer as needed) ->
> > > DAO Layer (a Spring/Hibernate layer to manage persistence for business
> > > domain types)
> > >
> > > The problem here is definitely managing and translating between the
two
> > type
> > > systems: Castor generated classes from XSD and non-generated Business
> > Domain
> > > classes.
> > >
> > > The alternative, however, is to just try to use the XSD generated type
> > > system and persist that directly. This is too big of a leap for us
> right
> > > now, as our business layer doesn't "think" in pure XSD type terms.
> You'll
> > > probably encounter this a lot given how much legacy functionality
people
> > are
> > > trying to SOAP service enable.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: implementing a WS-I compliant SOAP service in Java is not
a
> > > trivial thing. There are two types of people building Web Services in
> > Java:
> > > those who are extremely frustrated with the completely stupid state of
> the
> > > Java based Web Services world right now and yet still trying very hard
> to
> > do
> > > it right, and those who haven't grasped that world is in a completely
> > stupid
> > > state right now.
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
<ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:02 AM
> > > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > My first attemps have started with a WSDL/Schema then I generate
> > everything.
> > > I was able to find an example at W3.org and I just manipulate it to
the
> > way
> > > I need it. I thought this to be the best way at the time because of
> > > interoperability.
> > >
> > > From what I've been finding thus far there are no "Standard"
practices,
> > just
> > > "Accepted" practices. Starting with a class then using Java2WSDL and
> then
> > > WSDL2Java seems to be the most common. But, it almost seems that this
> was
> > > not the intention of the designers of Axis. Why use two steps when you
> can
> > > use one? Creating a WSDL from scratch seems like the intended way, but
> is
> > > not the most accepted way by the developers/users of Axis. Why write
> what
> > > you can generate?
> > >
> > > I know this isn't difficult earth shattering stuff, I'm just looking
for
> > the
> > > best way of doing this. So, when I start working with other people to
> > create
> > > services, we're doing it the "right" way.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dorner Thomas" <th...@edmb.debis.com>
> > > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:01 AM
> > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > You are right - if you will do a interoperable webservice
> > > that deal with other clients (.Net ...) its better to go from the
> > > wsdl.
> > >
> > > But when i use String, int and so on and i generate a wsdl by
> > > java2wsdl, I hope the wsdl i get, depends on the standard spec.
> > > for wsdl!????
> > >
> > > So there should no problem to use the wsdl by other languages!???
> > >
> > > Dont know how it looks with complex datatypes!????
> > >
> > > Do you all write your own wsdl by hand????
> > >
> > > Tomi
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: David Cunningham [ mailto:david.cunningham@dcdominion.com
<ma...@dcdominion.com> ]
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 13:14
> > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Betreff: RE: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > I disagree, the right way is to start with your WSDL and schema files.
> If
> > > you want any hope of being WS-I compliant or using doc/literal this is
> > your
> > > best bet. As soon as you start with an interface, you start dealing
Java
> > > types that do not correlate to schema types very well. For example, if
> you
> > > use: public List getStuff() or public String[] getStuff(), you will
> either
> > > generate a WSDL file that can't be parsed properly by other consumers
> > (.NET,
> > > Glue, etc) or be bound to Java collection types that have no chance of
> > being
> > > parsed properly by .Net (without a lot of hacking around).
> > >
> > > My recommendation, again personal preference, is always give thought
to
> > the
> > > XML that is going across the wire and what you are trying to
> send/receive
> > > and in what structure. This is especially important when dealing with
> > > doc/literal since you are sending a single document over the wire.
> > >
> > > - david
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dorner Thomas [ mailto:thomas.dorner@edmb.debis.com
<ma...@edmb.debis.com> ]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 AM
> > > To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > >
> > > The right way is to write a interface which includes all the Methods
> your
> > > webservice should offer.
> > >
> > > Then you use java2wsdl to generate your wsdl. You have to correct your
> > > parameternames in your auto generated wsdl, cause the the params looks
> > like
> > > in0, in1, in2... .
> > >
> > > Then you use wsdl2java to generate your stub, locator, skeleton, impl
> and
> > > maybe a testclient.
> > >
> > > Now you can implement and deploy your Service by unsing the addtional
> > > generated .wsdd files.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps you
> > >
> > > Tomi
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
<ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Mai 2004 18:48
> > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Betreff: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm a newbie looking for guidance in creating WebServices with Axis.
> I've
> > > gone through the documentation backwards and forwards and have come up
> > with
> > > me own ways of doing things. I start with a WSDL that I create and use
> > > WSDL2Java to generate the code and go from there. What I'm looking for
> is
> > a
> > > best practices because I don't feel confident in the way I am going
> about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Do most people start from a WSDL? Do people generate a WSDL from an
> > > interface and go from there? Do people just create a class and a WSDD
> > file?
> > > Or, do people use JWS files that accept a string and the string
contains
> > xml
> > > formated text?
> > >
> > > If there are any sites that cover this information, please forward
them
> on
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Any help will be appreciated!!!
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Joe Plautz
> > > joep@customcall.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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RE: Project from hell?
Posted by TMT_Sato <sa...@tmtec.biz>.
Hi,
I use web service,
if that applet talks to the server with RMI.
We can think of a web service as
another serialization better than RMI.
Besides, we can use http or https with axis.
That leads to an easy integration with
other J2EE applications.
In the end, better availability ,security and cost.
But the problem is to serialize or download apps.
The proxy seems to be very simple
to handle diverse app's request.
Maybe client jar contains only bootstrap classes.
And other selected app classes are
serialized and passed to the user dynamically
or simply downloaded using ftp.
These are done automatically by RMI.
But any system to handle these feature, of course,
is not anywhere around WebService, so you create on your own.
But serialization cost of byte[] or object may be high.
If not, need to distribute jar file contains all the app classses to all
tha users
in a timely manner.
In this case, web start is far better solution than applet.
Thanks,
Takenori
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:17 PM
> To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Project from hell?
>
>
> Ok, here's the deal. I have a legacy Web app that uses
> applets in the presentation layer for the client/server
> communication. The applets capture input from the user
> (userid, password, etc.), sends it to the server for
> validation, and the server returns another applet with
> application options permitted by the user's security level,
> and so on and so on. The rub is that this app is installed
> in every single US consular post and embassy in the world
> (around 550 posts). At predetermined times the post
> databases synch to the main database in Washington,
> DC....hopefully...telecommunications in some places are not
> very reliable.
>
> What I have been tasked to investigate is the possibility of
> wrapping this app in a Web service so that all the post
> installations could be consolidated into one place in
> Washington and the posts could then use the app with only a
> browser (light client), and have the advantages of message queuing.
>
> Does this sound doable to you guys?
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blake Dournaee [mailto:blake@sarvega.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Cc: GalbreathMA@state.gov
> Subject: RE: Best Practices?
>
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> I have a comment/clarifying question on your statement here.
> I suppose I'm trying to understand your motivation for doing
> this (other than the fact that a browser happens to be a
> useful tool for testing XML-based web services).
>
> If you want to access a Web Service from a web browser, what
> is your use case?
>
> Suppose for instance you were invoking an XML web service
> with visual / form data. So a user enters some inputs
> (whatever these may be) and they get packed into a SOAP
> request by the browser and sent. Then, the browser receives
> the response from the service and unpacks the XML and renders it.
>
> This use-case seems to be doing a lot of extra work when you
> can accomplish the same result with a plain web application.
>
> Can you clarify? I've heard people mention browser/XML-web
> services interactions, but most of these came from people
> confusing "service on the web" with "xml web service."
>
> Thanks,
>
> Blake Dournaee
> Sarvega, Inc.
> http://www.sarvega.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:40 PM
> To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Best Practices?
>
> I truely wish to access a Web service from a browser.
> However I can make that happen.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Plautz [mailto:joep@customcall.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:36 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Best Practices?
>
>
> I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Are you
> trying to create a web app that uses a web service backend,
> or do you truely wish to access a web service from a browser?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Galbreath, Mark A" <Ga...@state.gov>
> To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:23 PM
> Subject: RE: Best Practices?
>
>
> I've been trying that route but have had no success yet.
> I'll try it again without using Struts.
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Pridemore, Russell (MAN-Corporate)
> [mailto:Russell.Pridemore@cox.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:09 PM
> To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Best Practices?
>
>
> I've seen this question come up before on this list, but
> don't quite follow the reasoning. AFAIK, Mozilla is the only
> browser that can natively consume SOAP, and then only with
> fairly recent builds and there are several restrictions. Web
> services, in general, seem to be at a lower level, not
> intended for direct consumption by an end-user (through a browser).
>
> That said, however, there is nothing stopping you from
> writing a fairly simple servlet that accesses a web service
> and returns the data as HTML to a browser...
>
> Russ
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:57 AM
> To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> Subject: RE: Best Practices?
>
>
> How about something that should have been documented from the
> beginning: how to wrap an existing application in a Web
> service and access it with a browser?
>
> Mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int [mailto:luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:50 AM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Best Practices?
>
>
>
> Hi Andrew,
> I started to write a tutorial on how to create a web service
> using Axis and Ant. The tutorial is also taking in
> consideration attachments and I believe it would fit into a
> Axis beginners page.
>
> Luciano
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andrew Premdas [ mailto:Andrew.Premdas@man.ac.uk
> <ma...@man.ac.uk> ]
> Sent: Thursday 13 May 2004 15:58
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org; dims@apache.org
> Subject: RE: Best Practices?
>
>
> Yes otherwise I wouldn't have posted. However I have
>
> 1) Little knowledge
> 2) Not a great deal of time (day job too)
>
> So I'm happy to
>
> 1) Review any documentation that is newbie orientated
> 2) Create a newbie pathway.
>
> My initial thoughts are to create a newbie trails page on the
> wiki and start
>
> from there.
>
> Comments?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com> ]
> Sent: 13 May 2004 14:06
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Best Practices?
>
>
> Next question: Are u willing to help? As u know all
> committers have day jobs
>
> :)
>
> thanks,
> dims
>
> On Thu, 13 May 2004 10:43:09 +0100, Andrew Premdas
> <an...@man.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> > My 2c as a newbie.
> >
> > No.1 thing for a better Axis - much better documentation!!
> No.2 thing,
> > better ease of use
> >
> > For a newbie, Web Services and Axis are something of a minefield,
> > through which there are no clear marked paths. The docs
> sell .jws when
> > really all its good for is persauding people web services are much
> > easier than they actually are ... was going to list other faults of
> > docs but instead ...
> >
> > How to improve docs:
> >
> > Provide a number of real world scenarios that clearly
> illustrate the
> > development of production quality web services. Start with something
> simple
> > and then move on from there. Explain why things are being done in a
> certain
> > way.
> >
> > StockQuote, ServiceSendingAttachment,
> ServiceSendingComplexType ...
> >
> > Provide examples of different ways of working with Axis and explain
> > their merits
> >
> > jws, interface -> java2wdsl -> wsdl2java, wsdl by hand, wsdl2java,
> >
> > Explain clearly key web services issues
> > xml-oo mismatch, ...
> >
> > Provide a number of clear paths through these areas,
> perhaps following
> > a format like the java tutorial.
> >
> > How to improve ease of use:
> >
> > Improve, or at the very least clearly document the command line
> > interface tools - wsdl2java, java2wsdl. Document the ant tasks and
> > provide good examples of usage. Provide default log4j
> configurations
> > inbuilt into the command line tools, so if they can't find a
> > properties file on the command
>
> > line they will at least log to the console. Perhaps add a
> command line
> > switch (oh no another one) to set logging level.
> >
> > None of this is particularly glamorous, but the reason this thread
> > started
>
> > is because much of this doesn't exist and people need
> clearer guidance
> about
> > how to get the best out of Axis.
> >
> > All best
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > Andrew Premdas
> > Student Systems Developer
> > Manchester University
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com
> <ma...@gmail.com> ]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:14 PM
> > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Best Practices?
> >
> > Let's twist this discussion on its head....
> > - Is there a list of bugs hiding in there somewhere? (bug reports)
> > - What would you do if you were to write/re-write parts of axis?
> > (enhancements requests)
> >
> > If we can't create new bug reports / enchancements to tell axis
> > developers how axis should behave in the future (1.2 Final)
> then all
> > discussion is just water under the bridge.
> >
> > thanks,
> > -- dims
> >
> > On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:12:44 -0500, Joe Plautz <jo...@customcall.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice! This is exactly what I've been looking for.
> > >
> > > It almost seems that people end up using Axis inspite of itself.
> > > But,
> it's
> > > just too dang easy to get something up and running. I imagine JWS
> > > files
> > have
> > > lead many people astray with their simplicity. If all
> services could
> work
> > > like them, plus using user defined objects/type with little to no
> > > configuration. The world would be a fabulous place.
> > >
> > > I too have been not tying my service layer to my DAO layer. My
> > > reasons
> are
> > > more personal preferrance then need. But, I can take my
> DAO and put
> > > it behind something else with little changing except
> creating a new
> > > broker.
>
> > >
> > > -Joe
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Anderson Jonathan" <an...@bah.com>
> > > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:03 AM
> > > Subject: RE: Best Practices?
> > >
> > > > I would venture to say that 80% of the complications and
> > > > frustrations implementing interoperable (WS-I compliant
> > > > Doc/Literal) SOAP web
> > services
> > > on
> > > > Java platforms stem from the XML datatype to Java
> datatype binding
> > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > If you take the time to learn W3C XML Schema, you'll see the
> > > > problem:
> > it's
> > > > not an OO type system. Therefore modeling your data
> types in Java
> > > > and
>
> > > > expecting some automagic Java2WSDL utility to do all of
> the hard
> > > > work
> to
> > > > generate your XML schema is naive, and it is
> unfortunate that so
> > > > many
> OO
> > > > developers think this way.
> > > >
> > > > I've encountered several approaches for dealing with
> this problem
> > > > with
>
> > > > Axis - virtually all of them involve hand crafting your
> WSDL and
> > > > XSD
> > (with
> > > a
> > > > WSDL/XSD IDE, of course) and generating a Java type
> system using
> > > > ***a particular Java XML binding engine***. Using
> Axis's internal
> > > > XML
> > binding
> > > > engine is one of several options available to you.
> > > >
> > > > For more info on the XML binding problem in Java, I defer to
> > > > Dennis
> > > Sosnoski
> > > > (www.sosnoski.com), a long-time XML deep thinker. He
> first turned
> > > > me
> > onto
> > > > the XML data binding "problem" with his excellent articles (4
> > > > parts)
> on
> > > the
> > > > issues over at IBM developerWorks.
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.ht
> > > > ml
> <http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html>
> > > >
> > > > If you're trying to use Axis's internal XML binding
> engine, here's
> some
> > > > advice:
> > > >
> > > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user
> <http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=107945370506044&w=2>
> &m=107945370506044&w=2
> > > >
> > > > We've since moved away from this approach, and are
> currently using
> > Axis's
> > > > Message Style services to pass the SOAP Request Body
> DOM straight
> > > > to
> > > Castor,
> > > > which unmarshalls the XML into a Castor generated type
> system. We
> > further
> > > > introduced a broker pattern to abstract the SOAP
> messaging layer
> > > > from
> > our
> > > > business layer, which currently is not tied to any XSD generated
> types.
> > > >
> > > > Axis Message Style Service Implementation ->
> > > > Service Broker Layer (unmarshalls SOAP Request DOM via Castor,
> extracts
> > > the
> > > > necessary information from Castor types - literally
> traversing the
> > graph's
> > > > getters - to invoke Business Manager Layer, and catches Business
> > > Exceptions
> > > > and maps them to proper SOAP Faults using AxisFault)-> Business
> > > > Manager Layer (not tied to XSD types, but rather pure Java
> > > business
> > > > domain types, invokes DAO layer as needed) ->
> > > > DAO Layer (a Spring/Hibernate layer to manage persistence for
> > > > business
>
> > > > domain types)
> > > >
> > > > The problem here is definitely managing and translating between
> > > > the
> two
> > > type
> > > > systems: Castor generated classes from XSD and non-generated
> > > > Business
> > > Domain
> > > > classes.
> > > >
> > > > The alternative, however, is to just try to use the XSD
> generated
> > > > type
>
> > > > system and persist that directly. This is too big of a
> leap for
> > > > us
> > right
> > > > now, as our business layer doesn't "think" in pure XSD
> type terms.
> > You'll
> > > > probably encounter this a lot given how much legacy
> functionality
> people
> > > are
> > > > trying to SOAP service enable.
> > > >
> > > > Bottom line: implementing a WS-I compliant SOAP service
> in Java is
> > > > not
>
> a
> > > > trivial thing. There are two types of people building Web
> > > > Services in
>
> > > Java:
> > > > those who are extremely frustrated with the completely stupid
> > > > state of
>
> > the
> > > > Java based Web Services world right now and yet still
> trying very
> > > > hard
>
> > to
> > > do
> > > > it right, and those who haven't grasped that world is in a
> > > > completely
> > > stupid
> > > > state right now.
> > > >
> > > > -Jon
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
> <ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:02 AM
> > > > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > > Subject: Re: Best Practices?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My first attemps have started with a WSDL/Schema then I generate
> > > everything.
> > > > I was able to find an example at W3.org and I just
> manipulate it
> > > > to
> the
> > > way
> > > > I need it. I thought this to be the best way at the
> time because
> > > > of interoperability.
> > > >
> > > > From what I've been finding thus far there are no "Standard"
> practices,
> > > just
> > > > "Accepted" practices. Starting with a class then using
> Java2WSDL
> > > > and
> > then
> > > > WSDL2Java seems to be the most common. But, it almost
> seems that
> > > > this
> > was
> > > > not the intention of the designers of Axis. Why use two
> steps when
> > > > you
>
> > can
> > > > use one? Creating a WSDL from scratch seems like the
> intended way,
> > > > but
>
> > is
> > > > not the most accepted way by the developers/users of Axis. Why
> > > > write
> > what
> > > > you can generate?
> > > >
> > > > I know this isn't difficult earth shattering stuff, I'm just
> > > > looking
> for
> > > the
> > > > best way of doing this. So, when I start working with
> other people
> > > > to
> > > create
> > > > services, we're doing it the "right" way.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Dorner Thomas" <th...@edmb.debis.com>
> > > > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:01 AM
> > > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You are right - if you will do a interoperable webservice that
> > > > deal with other clients (.Net ...) its better to go
> from the wsdl.
> > > >
> > > > But when i use String, int and so on and i generate a wsdl by
> > > > java2wsdl, I hope the wsdl i get, depends on the standard spec.
> > > > for wsdl!????
> > > >
> > > > So there should no problem to use the wsdl by other
> languages!???
> > > >
> > > > Dont know how it looks with complex datatypes!????
> > > >
> > > > Do you all write your own wsdl by hand????
> > > >
> > > > Tomi
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > Von: David Cunningham [ mailto:david.cunningham@dcdominion.com
> <ma...@dcdominion.com> ]
> > > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 13:14
> > > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > > Betreff: RE: Best Practices?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I disagree, the right way is to start with your WSDL and schema
> > > > files.
>
> > If
> > > > you want any hope of being WS-I compliant or using doc/literal
> > > > this is
>
> > > your
> > > > best bet. As soon as you start with an interface, you start
> > > > dealing
> Java
> > > > types that do not correlate to schema types very well. For
> > > > example, if
>
> > you
> > > > use: public List getStuff() or public String[] getStuff(), you
> > > > will
> > either
> > > > generate a WSDL file that can't be parsed properly by other
> > > > consumers
> > > (.NET,
> > > > Glue, etc) or be bound to Java collection types that have no
> > > > chance of
>
> > > being
> > > > parsed properly by .Net (without a lot of hacking around).
> > > >
> > > > My recommendation, again personal preference, is always give
> > > > thought
> to
> > > the
> > > > XML that is going across the wire and what you are trying to
> > send/receive
> > > > and in what structure. This is especially important
> when dealing
> > > > with doc/literal since you are sending a single
> document over the
> > > > wire.
> > > >
> > > > - david
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Dorner Thomas [ mailto:thomas.dorner@edmb.debis.com
> <ma...@edmb.debis.com> ]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 AM
> > > > To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> > > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > > >
> > > > The right way is to write a interface which includes all the
> > > > Methods
> > your
> > > > webservice should offer.
> > > >
> > > > Then you use java2wsdl to generate your wsdl. You have
> to correct
> > > > your
>
> > > > parameternames in your auto generated wsdl, cause the
> the params
> > > > looks
>
> > > like
> > > > in0, in1, in2... .
> > > >
> > > > Then you use wsdl2java to generate your stub, locator,
> skeleton,
> > > > impl
> > and
> > > > maybe a testclient.
> > > >
> > > > Now you can implement and deploy your Service by unsing the
> > > > addtional generated .wsdd files.
> > > >
> > > > Hope this helps you
> > > >
> > > > Tomi
> > > >
> > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > > Von: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
> <ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Mai 2004 18:48
> > > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > > Betreff: Best Practices?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm a newbie looking for guidance in creating WebServices with
> > > > Axis.
> > I've
> > > > gone through the documentation backwards and forwards and have
> > > > come up
>
> > > with
> > > > me own ways of doing things. I start with a WSDL that I
> create and
> > > > use
>
> > > > WSDL2Java to generate the code and go from there. What
> I'm looking
> > > > for
>
> > is
> > > a
> > > > best practices because I don't feel confident in the way I am
> > > > going
> > about
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Do most people start from a WSDL? Do people generate a
> WSDL from
> > > > an interface and go from there? Do people just create a
> class and
> > > > a WSDD
> > > file?
> > > > Or, do people use JWS files that accept a string and the string
> contains
> > > xml
> > > > formated text?
> > > >
> > > > If there are any sites that cover this information,
> please forward
> them
> > on
> > > > to me.
> > > >
> > > > Any help will be appreciated!!!
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Joe Plautz
> > > > joep@customcall.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Any e-mail message from the European Central Bank (ECB) is
> sent in good faith but shall neither be binding nor construed
> as constituting a commitment by the ECB except where provided
> for in a written agreement. This e-mail is intended only for
> the use of the recipient(s) named above. Any unauthorised
> disclosure, use or dissemination, either in whole or in part,
> is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> please notify the sender immediately via e-mail and delete
> this e-mail from your system.
>
>
>
>
RE: Project from hell?
Posted by Blake Dournaee <bl...@sarvega.com>.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for the description of this use-case. I still, however, have some
questions - probably from my misunderstanding of the description.
Let me re-state what you are trying to accomplish first:
1. You've got a large number of installations of a legacy Web app (LWA),
distributed across different geographical locations.
2. You want to "slap" an XML Web Services interface on the entire
collection, so a client only needs to interact with a single endpoint.
Does this sound right?
If so, I think this is an interesting use-case. You are in effect using the
XML web service as a consistent interface to hide the complexity on the back
end.
My next question would be about browser support - unless you implement the
SOAP handling in applets, it seems like this project may be hard to get off
the ground given the state of SOAP support in browsers.
Blake Dournaee
Sarvega, Inc.
http://www.sarvega.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:17 AM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Project from hell?
Ok, here's the deal. I have a legacy Web app that uses applets in the
presentation layer for the client/server communication. The applets capture
input from the user (userid, password, etc.), sends it to the server for
validation, and the server returns another applet with application options
permitted by the user's security level, and so on and so on. The rub is
that this app is installed in every single US consular post and embassy in
the world (around 550 posts). At predetermined times the post databases
synch to the main database in Washington,
DC....hopefully...telecommunications in some places are not very reliable.
What I have been tasked to investigate is the possibility of wrapping this
app in a Web service so that all the post installations could be
consolidated into one place in Washington and the posts could then use the
app with only a browser (light client), and have the advantages of message
queuing.
Does this sound doable to you guys?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Blake Dournaee [mailto:blake@sarvega.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 5:56 PM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Cc: GalbreathMA@state.gov
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Hi Mark,
I have a comment/clarifying question on your statement here. I suppose I'm
trying to understand your motivation for doing this (other than the fact
that a browser happens to be a useful tool for testing XML-based web
services).
If you want to access a Web Service from a web browser, what is your use
case?
Suppose for instance you were invoking an XML web service with visual / form
data. So a user enters some inputs (whatever these may be) and they get
packed into a SOAP request by the browser and sent. Then, the browser
receives the response from the service and unpacks the XML and renders it.
This use-case seems to be doing a lot of extra work when you can accomplish
the same result with a plain web application.
Can you clarify? I've heard people mention browser/XML-web services
interactions, but most of these came from people confusing "service on the
web" with "xml web service."
Thanks,
Blake Dournaee
Sarvega, Inc.
http://www.sarvega.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:40 PM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I truely wish to access a Web service from a browser. However I can make
that happen.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Plautz [mailto:joep@customcall.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:36 PM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: Best Practices?
I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. Are you trying to
create a web app that uses a web service backend, or do you truely wish to
access a web service from a browser?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Galbreath, Mark A" <Ga...@state.gov>
To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 1:23 PM
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I've been trying that route but have had no success yet. I'll try it again
without using Struts.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Pridemore, Russell (MAN-Corporate) [mailto:Russell.Pridemore@cox.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 2:09 PM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
I've seen this question come up before on this list, but don't quite follow
the reasoning.
AFAIK, Mozilla is the only browser that can natively consume SOAP, and then
only
with fairly recent builds and there are several restrictions. Web services,
in general,
seem to be at a lower level, not intended for direct consumption by an
end-user
(through a browser).
That said, however, there is nothing stopping you from writing a fairly
simple servlet
that accesses a web service and returns the data as HTML to a browser...
Russ
-----Original Message-----
From: Galbreath, Mark A [mailto:GalbreathMA@state.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:57 AM
To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
How about something that should have been documented from the beginning: how
to wrap an existing application in a Web service and access it with a
browser?
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int [mailto:luciano.fiandesio@ecb.int]
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 10:50 AM
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Hi Andrew,
I started to write a tutorial on how to create a web service using Axis and
Ant.
The tutorial is also taking in consideration attachments and I believe it
would fit into a Axis beginners page.
Luciano
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Premdas [ mailto:Andrew.Premdas@man.ac.uk
<ma...@man.ac.uk> ]
Sent: Thursday 13 May 2004 15:58
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org; dims@apache.org
Subject: RE: Best Practices?
Yes otherwise I wouldn't have posted. However I have
1) Little knowledge
2) Not a great deal of time (day job too)
So I'm happy to
1) Review any documentation that is newbie orientated
2) Create a newbie pathway.
My initial thoughts are to create a newbie trails page on the wiki and start
from there.
Comments?
-----Original Message-----
From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com <ma...@gmail.com>
]
Sent: 13 May 2004 14:06
To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
Subject: Re: Best Practices?
Next question: Are u willing to help? As u know all committers have day jobs
:)
thanks,
dims
On Thu, 13 May 2004 10:43:09 +0100, Andrew Premdas
<an...@man.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> My 2c as a newbie.
>
> No.1 thing for a better Axis - much better documentation!!
> No.2 thing, better ease of use
>
> For a newbie, Web Services and Axis are something of a minefield, through
> which there are no clear marked paths. The docs sell .jws when really all
> its good for is persauding people web services are much easier than they
> actually are ... was going to list other faults of docs but instead ...
>
> How to improve docs:
>
> Provide a number of real world scenarios that clearly illustrate the
> development of production quality web services. Start with something
simple
> and then move on from there. Explain why things are being done in a
certain
> way.
>
> StockQuote, ServiceSendingAttachment, ServiceSendingComplexType ...
>
> Provide examples of different ways of working with Axis and explain their
> merits
>
> jws, interface -> java2wdsl -> wsdl2java, wsdl by hand, wsdl2java,
>
> Explain clearly key web services issues
> xml-oo mismatch, ...
>
> Provide a number of clear paths through these areas, perhaps following a
> format like the java tutorial.
>
> How to improve ease of use:
>
> Improve, or at the very least clearly document the command line interface
> tools - wsdl2java, java2wsdl. Document the ant tasks and provide good
> examples of usage. Provide default log4j configurations inbuilt into the
> command line tools, so if they can't find a properties file on the command
> line they will at least log to the console. Perhaps add a command line
> switch (oh no another one) to set logging level.
>
> None of this is particularly glamorous, but the reason this thread started
> is because much of this doesn't exist and people need clearer guidance
about
> how to get the best out of Axis.
>
> All best
>
> Andy
>
> Andrew Premdas
> Student Systems Developer
> Manchester University
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Davanum Srinivas [ mailto:davanum@gmail.com
<ma...@gmail.com> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 1:14 PM
> To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Best Practices?
>
> Let's twist this discussion on its head....
> - Is there a list of bugs hiding in there somewhere? (bug reports)
> - What would you do if you were to write/re-write parts of axis?
> (enhancements requests)
>
> If we can't create new bug reports / enchancements to tell axis
> developers how axis should behave in the future (1.2 Final) then all
> discussion is just water under the bridge.
>
> thanks,
> -- dims
>
> On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:12:44 -0500, Joe Plautz <jo...@customcall.com>
wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the advice! This is exactly what I've been looking for.
> >
> > It almost seems that people end up using Axis inspite of itself. But,
it's
> > just too dang easy to get something up and running. I imagine JWS files
> have
> > lead many people astray with their simplicity. If all services could
work
> > like them, plus using user defined objects/type with little to no
> > configuration. The world would be a fabulous place.
> >
> > I too have been not tying my service layer to my DAO layer. My reasons
are
> > more personal preferrance then need. But, I can take my DAO and put it
> > behind something else with little changing except creating a new broker.
> >
> > -Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anderson Jonathan" <an...@bah.com>
> > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:03 AM
> > Subject: RE: Best Practices?
> >
> > > I would venture to say that 80% of the complications and frustrations
> > > implementing interoperable (WS-I compliant Doc/Literal) SOAP web
> services
> > on
> > > Java platforms stem from the XML datatype to Java datatype binding
> > problem.
> > >
> > > If you take the time to learn W3C XML Schema, you'll see the problem:
> it's
> > > not an OO type system. Therefore modeling your data types in Java and
> > > expecting some automagic Java2WSDL utility to do all of the hard work
to
> > > generate your XML schema is naive, and it is unfortunate that so many
OO
> > > developers think this way.
> > >
> > > I've encountered several approaches for dealing with this problem with
> > > Axis - virtually all of them involve hand crafting your WSDL and XSD
> (with
> > a
> > > WSDL/XSD IDE, of course) and generating a Java type system using ***a
> > > particular Java XML binding engine***. Using Axis's internal XML
> binding
> > > engine is one of several options available to you.
> > >
> > > For more info on the XML binding problem in Java, I defer to Dennis
> > Sosnoski
> > > (www.sosnoski.com), a long-time XML deep thinker. He first turned me
> onto
> > > the XML data binding "problem" with his excellent articles (4 parts)
on
> > the
> > > issues over at IBM developerWorks.
> > >
> > > http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html
<http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-databdopt/index.html>
> > >
> > > If you're trying to use Axis's internal XML binding engine, here's
some
> > > advice:
> > >
> > > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user
<http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=axis-user&m=107945370506044&w=2>
&m=107945370506044&w=2
> > >
> > > We've since moved away from this approach, and are currently using
> Axis's
> > > Message Style services to pass the SOAP Request Body DOM straight to
> > Castor,
> > > which unmarshalls the XML into a Castor generated type system. We
> further
> > > introduced a broker pattern to abstract the SOAP messaging layer from
> our
> > > business layer, which currently is not tied to any XSD generated
types.
> > >
> > > Axis Message Style Service Implementation ->
> > > Service Broker Layer (unmarshalls SOAP Request DOM via Castor,
extracts
> > the
> > > necessary information from Castor types - literally traversing the
> graph's
> > > getters - to invoke Business Manager Layer, and catches Business
> > Exceptions
> > > and maps them to proper SOAP Faults using AxisFault)->
> > > Business Manager Layer (not tied to XSD types, but rather pure Java
> > business
> > > domain types, invokes DAO layer as needed) ->
> > > DAO Layer (a Spring/Hibernate layer to manage persistence for business
> > > domain types)
> > >
> > > The problem here is definitely managing and translating between the
two
> > type
> > > systems: Castor generated classes from XSD and non-generated Business
> > Domain
> > > classes.
> > >
> > > The alternative, however, is to just try to use the XSD generated type
> > > system and persist that directly. This is too big of a leap for us
> right
> > > now, as our business layer doesn't "think" in pure XSD type terms.
> You'll
> > > probably encounter this a lot given how much legacy functionality
people
> > are
> > > trying to SOAP service enable.
> > >
> > > Bottom line: implementing a WS-I compliant SOAP service in Java is not
a
> > > trivial thing. There are two types of people building Web Services in
> > Java:
> > > those who are extremely frustrated with the completely stupid state of
> the
> > > Java based Web Services world right now and yet still trying very hard
> to
> > do
> > > it right, and those who haven't grasped that world is in a completely
> > stupid
> > > state right now.
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
<ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 10:02 AM
> > > To: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Subject: Re: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > My first attemps have started with a WSDL/Schema then I generate
> > everything.
> > > I was able to find an example at W3.org and I just manipulate it to
the
> > way
> > > I need it. I thought this to be the best way at the time because of
> > > interoperability.
> > >
> > > From what I've been finding thus far there are no "Standard"
practices,
> > just
> > > "Accepted" practices. Starting with a class then using Java2WSDL and
> then
> > > WSDL2Java seems to be the most common. But, it almost seems that this
> was
> > > not the intention of the designers of Axis. Why use two steps when you
> can
> > > use one? Creating a WSDL from scratch seems like the intended way, but
> is
> > > not the most accepted way by the developers/users of Axis. Why write
> what
> > > you can generate?
> > >
> > > I know this isn't difficult earth shattering stuff, I'm just looking
for
> > the
> > > best way of doing this. So, when I start working with other people to
> > create
> > > services, we're doing it the "right" way.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Dorner Thomas" <th...@edmb.debis.com>
> > > To: <ax...@ws.apache.org>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 7:01 AM
> > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > You are right - if you will do a interoperable webservice
> > > that deal with other clients (.Net ...) its better to go from the
> > > wsdl.
> > >
> > > But when i use String, int and so on and i generate a wsdl by
> > > java2wsdl, I hope the wsdl i get, depends on the standard spec.
> > > for wsdl!????
> > >
> > > So there should no problem to use the wsdl by other languages!???
> > >
> > > Dont know how it looks with complex datatypes!????
> > >
> > > Do you all write your own wsdl by hand????
> > >
> > > Tomi
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: David Cunningham [ mailto:david.cunningham@dcdominion.com
<ma...@dcdominion.com> ]
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 13:14
> > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Betreff: RE: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > I disagree, the right way is to start with your WSDL and schema files.
> If
> > > you want any hope of being WS-I compliant or using doc/literal this is
> > your
> > > best bet. As soon as you start with an interface, you start dealing
Java
> > > types that do not correlate to schema types very well. For example, if
> you
> > > use: public List getStuff() or public String[] getStuff(), you will
> either
> > > generate a WSDL file that can't be parsed properly by other consumers
> > (.NET,
> > > Glue, etc) or be bound to Java collection types that have no chance of
> > being
> > > parsed properly by .Net (without a lot of hacking around).
> > >
> > > My recommendation, again personal preference, is always give thought
to
> > the
> > > XML that is going across the wire and what you are trying to
> send/receive
> > > and in what structure. This is especially important when dealing with
> > > doc/literal since you are sending a single document over the wire.
> > >
> > > - david
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dorner Thomas [ mailto:thomas.dorner@edmb.debis.com
<ma...@edmb.debis.com> ]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2004 2:03 AM
> > > To: 'axis-user@ws.apache.org'
> > > Subject: AW: Best Practices?
> > >
> > > The right way is to write a interface which includes all the Methods
> your
> > > webservice should offer.
> > >
> > > Then you use java2wsdl to generate your wsdl. You have to correct your
> > > parameternames in your auto generated wsdl, cause the the params looks
> > like
> > > in0, in1, in2... .
> > >
> > > Then you use wsdl2java to generate your stub, locator, skeleton, impl
> and
> > > maybe a testclient.
> > >
> > > Now you can implement and deploy your Service by unsing the addtional
> > > generated .wsdd files.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps you
> > >
> > > Tomi
> > >
> > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > > Von: Joe Plautz [ mailto:joep@customcall.com
<ma...@customcall.com> ]
> > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. Mai 2004 18:48
> > > An: axis-user@ws.apache.org
> > > Betreff: Best Practices?
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm a newbie looking for guidance in creating WebServices with Axis.
> I've
> > > gone through the documentation backwards and forwards and have come up
> > with
> > > me own ways of doing things. I start with a WSDL that I create and use
> > > WSDL2Java to generate the code and go from there. What I'm looking for
> is
> > a
> > > best practices because I don't feel confident in the way I am going
> about
> > > it.
> > >
> > > Do most people start from a WSDL? Do people generate a WSDL from an
> > > interface and go from there? Do people just create a class and a WSDD
> > file?
> > > Or, do people use JWS files that accept a string and the string
contains
> > xml
> > > formated text?
> > >
> > > If there are any sites that cover this information, please forward
them
> on
> > > to me.
> > >
> > > Any help will be appreciated!!!
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Joe Plautz
> > > joep@customcall.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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