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Posted to users@cocoon.apache.org by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st> on 2000/07/04 17:31:52 UTC
multiple machines
We're running Cocoon1 on NT with IIS+JRun.
If this system emerges to be to slow...
...what would be the way to go!?
I guess a simple round robin set up
does not work because we use sessions,
and then have multiple VM, am I right?!
(Don't know if it is too off topic for
this list - but I guess it's a thing
that needs to be discussed! Especially
because of the performance threads that are
around)
Cheers
--
Torsten
Re: multiple machines
Posted by Berin Loritsch <bl...@infoplanning.com>.
Torsten Curdt wrote:
>
> We're running Cocoon1 on NT with IIS+JRun.
> If this system emerges to be to slow...
> ...what would be the way to go!?
>
> I guess a simple round robin set up
> does not work because we use sessions,
> and then have multiple VM, am I right?!
> (Don't know if it is too off topic for
> this list - but I guess it's a thing
> that needs to be discussed! Especially
> because of the performance threads that are
> around)
>
I believe the latest version of Tomcat has
a working implementation of load-balancing
that does the right thing with sessions.
RE: multiple machines
Posted by Uli Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
On Sun, 9 Jul 2000, Torsten Curdt wrote:
> Why should I use Apache+mod_jserv to forward to Tomcat?
> Why not using Apache/IIS+Tomcat to forward to Tomcat?
I think Tomcat needs mod_jserv on the apache side, because the Tomcat
folks haven't written a mod_tomcat :)
Ulrich
--
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Softwareentwicklung
RE: multiple machines
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> > So the combination:
> > Apache+mod_jserv+Tomcat on one machine is a real life option...
Right now I'm looking for a Apache+mod_JServ+mod_ssl win32 binary
(and I'm still searching) but I stumbled over the isapi_redirect.dll
at the jakarta website.
Will the dll+IIS do the same session forwarding I'm looking for?
--
Torsten
Re: multiple machines
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
Torsten Curdt wrote:
>
> So the combination:
> Apache+mod_jserv+Tomcat on one machine is a real life option...
Yes.
> but we can also do...
>
> Apache+mod_jserv on one machine delegating to
> multiple machines with just Tomcats
Perhaps :) Seriously, this should work, but I'm not a Tomcat expert.
With JServ this scenario is possible, we are using that here heavily.
Ulrich
--
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Systementwicklung
RE: multiple machines
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> > Uh.. sorry, that wasn't clear! I meant Apache+Tomcat or IIS+Tomcat!
> > Actually I wanted to know if Tomcat can do the forwarding stuff, too!
> > Because in the Kombination Apache+JServ+Tomcat we have 2 servlet
> > engines!
>
> Actually, mod_jserv ist NOT a Servlet Engine, it's an Apache module that
> communicates with ServletEngines (such as JServ or Tomcat) via the
> ApJServ Protocol.
Ok... then we mixed up a little the corrects terms!
Thanks for clarification. Now it makes sense...
So the combination:
Apache+mod_jserv+Tomcat on one machine is a real life option...
but we can also do...
Apache+mod_jserv on one machine delegating to
multiple machines with just Tomcats
Correct?
--
Torsten
Re: multiple machines
Posted by Ulrich Mayring <ul...@denic.de>.
Torsten Curdt wrote:
>
> Uh.. sorry, that wasn't clear! I meant Apache+Tomcat or IIS+Tomcat!
> Actually I wanted to know if Tomcat can do the forwarding stuff, too!
> Because in the Kombination Apache+JServ+Tomcat we have 2 servlet
> engines!
Actually, mod_jserv ist NOT a Servlet Engine, it's an Apache module that
communicates with ServletEngines (such as JServ or Tomcat) via the
ApJServ Protocol.
Ulrich
--
Ulrich Mayring
DENIC eG, Systementwicklung
RE: multiple machines
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> I guess my question is, the configuration you mention doesn't make any
> sense?
> Apache/IIS+Tomcat
> Why would you want 2 web servers and a servlet engine.
Uh.. sorry, that wasn't clear! I meant Apache+Tomcat or IIS+Tomcat!
Actually I wanted to know if Tomcat can do the forwarding stuff, too!
Because in the Kombination Apache+JServ+Tomcat we have 2 servlet
engines!
First we gonna start probably with just one machine but I want be
able to add more power to the system by just adding another machine
and be prepared for this.
So what I see as my best bet will be Apache+JServ and sometime
add some Tomcats...
(Hope Apache+JServ will do fine on win32. Unfortunately we're bind
to this platform because of politcal reasons... I have been
using JServ only with linux yet)
> Tomcat is great. v3.1 is stable and works great with Cocoon
> 1.7.x and will
> work with Cocoon v2 when it's released.
That sound really great!
--
Torsten
Re: multiple machines
Posted by Mike Engelhart <me...@earthtrip.com>.
on 7/9/00 11:09 AM, Torsten Curdt at tcurdt@dff.st wrote:
> ...coming back to your post:
> Why should I use Apache+mod_jserv to forward to Tomcat?
> Why not using Apache/IIS+Tomcat to forward to Tomcat?
> So I wouldn't have to deal with different environments...
>
The way the load balancing stuff works is very complex internally. It
requires a sepearte protocol currently AJP v1.2. This allows the
ApacheJServ to forward load balanced sessions to the correct servlet engine
without the developer having to worry about. The only way to do this is by
using Apache, JServ and Tomcat in combination. If you don't need Servlet
SDK 2.2 functionality you can bail on Tomcat alltogether but if you do need
the 2.2 stuff then you have to use ApacheJServ just for the AJP networking
function and then Tomcat handles the servlet requests.
I guess my question is, the configuration you mention doesn't make any
sense?
Apache/IIS+Tomcat
Why would you want 2 web servers and a servlet engine. You can forward IIS
to Tomcat (at least I thin you can but it may not be release quality) for
servlet processing but Tomcat isn't what's doing the load balancing which is
what you were inquiring about.
> BTW: I haven't yet checked out Tomcat... Is it stable
> enough for a production system and will cocoon1
> and later cocoon2 do fine with with it?
Tomcat is great. v3.1 is stable and works great with Cocoon 1.7.x and will
work with Cocoon v2 when it's released.
Mike
RE: multiple machines
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> > We're running Cocoon1 on NT with IIS+JRun.
> > If this system emerges to be to slow...
> > ...what would be the way to go!?
> >
> > I guess a simple round robin set up
> > does not work because we use sessions,
> > and then have multiple VM, am I right?!
> > (Don't know if it is too off topic for
> > this list - but I guess it's a thing
> > that needs to be discussed! Especially
> > because of the performance threads that are
> > around)
> If you use Apache and mod_jserv to forward requests to Tomcat, you can get
> built-in load balancing that does the "right thing" with sessions.
...coming back to your post:
Why should I use Apache+mod_jserv to forward to Tomcat?
Why not using Apache/IIS+Tomcat to forward to Tomcat?
So I wouldn't have to deal with different environments...
BTW: I haven't yet checked out Tomcat... Is it stable
enough for a production system and will cocoon1
and later cocoon2 do fine with with it?
--
Torsten
Re: multiple machines
Posted by Markus Bernhardt <mb...@swsgmbh.de>.
I think there's another free load-balancer:
http://www.LinuxVirtualServer.org
Packages,which include LVS:
Redhat's piranha, Ultramonkey, Turbolinux
I do not want to start a flame war, but the best for me
is Ultramonkey: http://ultramonkey.sourceforge.net/
There are also some commercial solutions in
software (www.zeus.com,...) or hardware
(alteon, big ip ...), but they are quite expensive.
A Alteon Ace Director costs in Germany
round about 30.000 $. (and for a bullet proof
system you need 4 of them !!)
The main advantage of LVS is, that it support
DIRECT ROUTING. I know no commercial
solution, capable of this.
And of course the price; it's free and you only need
2 PC's and a standard switch.
Markus
Mike Engelhart wrote:
> on 7/4/00 12:09 PM, Torsten Curdt at tcurdt@dff.st wrote:
>
> > Is this the only combination you know of?
> > --
> > Torsten
> The only free one I know of yes but there are tons of load-balancing options
> out there in both hardware and software. Sorry but you'll have to do a
> search as I don't know of any particular URL's
>
> Mike
>
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Re: multiple machines
Posted by Mike Engelhart <me...@earthtrip.com>.
on 7/5/00 2:57 AM, Torsten Curdt at tcurdt@dff.st wrote:
> Since we're using JRun with IIS right now... is this forwarding
> and load balancing stuff a jserv feature or might it work with
> JRun as well?
It's built into JServ. Go to http://java.apache.org and look at the jserv
section. There is a white paper on load balancing there somewhere.
Mike
RE: multiple machines
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> > Is this the only combination you know of?
> The only free one I know of yes but there are tons of
> load-balancing options
> out there in both hardware and software. Sorry but you'll have to do a
> search as I don't know of any particular URL's
Since we're using JRun with IIS right now... is this forwarding
and load balancing stuff a jserv feature or might it work with
JRun as well?
--
Torsten
Re: multiple machines
Posted by Mike Engelhart <me...@earthtrip.com>.
on 7/4/00 12:09 PM, Torsten Curdt at tcurdt@dff.st wrote:
> Is this the only combination you know of?
> --
> Torsten
The only free one I know of yes but there are tons of load-balancing options
out there in both hardware and software. Sorry but you'll have to do a
search as I don't know of any particular URL's
Mike
RE: multiple machines
Posted by Torsten Curdt <tc...@dff.st>.
> > We're running Cocoon1 on NT with IIS+JRun.
> > If this system emerges to be to slow...
> > ...what would be the way to go!?
> >
> > I guess a simple round robin set up
> > does not work because we use sessions,
> > and then have multiple VM, am I right?!
> > (Don't know if it is too off topic for
> > this list - but I guess it's a thing
> > that needs to be discussed! Especially
> > because of the performance threads that are
> > around)
> If you use Apache and mod_jserv to forward requests to Tomcat, you can get
> built-in load balancing that does the "right thing" with sessions.
Is this the only combination you know of?
--
Torsten
Re: multiple machines
Posted by Mike Engelhart <me...@earthtrip.com>.
on 7/4/00 10:31 AM, Torsten Curdt at tcurdt@dff.st wrote:
> We're running Cocoon1 on NT with IIS+JRun.
> If this system emerges to be to slow...
> ...what would be the way to go!?
>
> I guess a simple round robin set up
> does not work because we use sessions,
> and then have multiple VM, am I right?!
> (Don't know if it is too off topic for
> this list - but I guess it's a thing
> that needs to be discussed! Especially
> because of the performance threads that are
> around)
>
> Cheers
If you use Apache and mod_jserv to forward requests to Tomcat, you can get
built-in load balancing that does the "right thing" with sessions.
Mike