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Posted to dev@cordova.apache.org by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> on 2011/11/26 23:12:32 UTC
[proposal] Moving to Git
As some here may know, the ASF has been preparing to roll Git out to all
projects that want it. This work had been non-trivial, the infrastructure
team have been working on the technical issues since committing to it at
ApacheCon in 2010 (and before that they had to figure out what the real
issues were).
This work has led to the trial in CouchDB. This trial is designed to a)
test the technical solutions in a working project and b) educate people
like me who have no experience of working with Git in a community project.
Since becoming aware of this projects desire to "wait it out" before moving
to the ASF I have been seeing if there is any way of making this happen
sooner rather than later.
For example, on the infrastructure list I said:
"They (PhoneGap/Callback) have an existing GitHub based community and are a
well respected project in their own right. The nature of their project
means that SVN is sub-optimal for reasons we don't hear in the typical Git Vs
SVN arguments (in short they have lots of platform specific forks of their
core code but seek to ensure a strong community around the core and each of
those forks).
>From my limited engagement with them so far I find them respectful of the
ASFs position and willing to work with us on addressing our concerns. I'm
not yet sure of how "Apache like" their existing community is, but I do
find myself saying one thing as a mentor ("you are not allowed to do this")
whilst feeling another ("you should be allowed to help educate us here"). I
think we are missing an opportunity.
With strong mentorship I believe this particular project could help us
accelerate
the evaluation of Git within ASF communities. I am a mentor and I'm willing
to commit to safeguarding the experiment."
As you can see, I have some significant concerns. Git, as a tool, can be
useful to a community managed project. However, it was designed for an
entirely different management model (the Benevolent Dictator). I'm not
currently sure of where on this spectrum PhoneGap/Callbac sits. However,
you asked to come to the ASF, your champion is well respected by more than
just myself and you have some great mentors (not including me of course). I
assume we are on fairly safe ground here.
The response to my enquiries has been very positive (it's amazing how
ill-informed bloggers can be). As a result (and because another mentor has
stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions
before I make that request.
The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation over on
the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow in
managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to describe
how you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions,
IP review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll work
that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that
there will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage
with. If I am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process then
I'm willing to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the
board. I'm reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other
mentors here then we can convince the infrastructure team.
Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current
governance and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way.
On the CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member
which defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came from
Git when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful
starting point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already). See
http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k
Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
alongside SVN in Apache projects.
However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee that
infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully
you will be too.
Are mentors OK with this?
Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have any
questions or observations?
Ross
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Shazron <sh...@gmail.com>.
+1
I'm joining the couchdb lists as well..
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:27 AM, Michael Brooks
<mi...@michaelbrooks.ca> wrote:
> +1 - Huge appreciation goes out to you Ross. I'll help in any way and I'm
> already lurking on the CouchDB mailing-list.
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
>
>> +++1
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:32 AM, Ross Gardler
>> <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> > On 26 November 2011 22:12, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> As a result (and because another mentor has
>> >> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
>> >> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions
>> before
>> >> I make that request.
>> >>
>> >> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
>> >
>> > All mentors have now supported this proposal, so it's over to the
>> committers ...
>> >
>> >> The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation
>> over on
>> >> the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow
>> in
>> >> managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to
>> describe how
>> >> you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions, IP
>> >> review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
>> >> I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll
>> work
>> >> that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that
>> there
>> >> will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage
>> with. If I
>> >> am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process then I'm
>> willing
>> >> to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the board. I'm
>> >> reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other mentors here
>> then
>> >> we can convince the infrastructure team.
>> >> Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current
>> governance
>> >> and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way. On the
>> >> CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member
>> which
>> >> defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came from
>> Git
>> >> when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful
>> starting
>> >> point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already).
>> >> See http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k
>> >> Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
>> >> Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
>> >> incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
>> >> alongside SVN in Apache projects.
>> >> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee
>> that
>> >> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
>> >> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it,
>> hopefully you
>> >> will be too.
>> >> Are mentors OK with this?
>> >> Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have
>> any
>> >> questions or observations?
>> >> Ross
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
>> > Programme Leader (Open Development)
>> > OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>> >
>>
>
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Michael Brooks <mi...@michaelbrooks.ca>.
+1 - Huge appreciation goes out to you Ross. I'll help in any way and I'm
already lurking on the CouchDB mailing-list.
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 9:30 AM, Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io> wrote:
> +++1
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:32 AM, Ross Gardler
> <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> > On 26 November 2011 22:12, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>
> wrote:
> >> As a result (and because another mentor has
> >> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
> >> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions
> before
> >> I make that request.
> >>
> >> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
> >
> > All mentors have now supported this proposal, so it's over to the
> committers ...
> >
> >> The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation
> over on
> >> the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow
> in
> >> managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to
> describe how
> >> you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions, IP
> >> review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
> >> I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll
> work
> >> that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that
> there
> >> will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage
> with. If I
> >> am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process then I'm
> willing
> >> to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the board. I'm
> >> reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other mentors here
> then
> >> we can convince the infrastructure team.
> >> Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current
> governance
> >> and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way. On the
> >> CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member
> which
> >> defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came from
> Git
> >> when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful
> starting
> >> point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already).
> >> See http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k
> >> Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
> >> Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
> >> incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
> >> alongside SVN in Apache projects.
> >> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee
> that
> >> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
> >> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it,
> hopefully you
> >> will be too.
> >> Are mentors OK with this?
> >> Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have
> any
> >> questions or observations?
> >> Ross
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> > Programme Leader (Open Development)
> > OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
> >
>
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Brian LeRoux <b...@brian.io>.
+++1
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:32 AM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> On 26 November 2011 22:12, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> As a result (and because another mentor has
>> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
>> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions before
>> I make that request.
>>
>> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
>
> All mentors have now supported this proposal, so it's over to the committers ...
>
>> The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation over on
>> the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow in
>> managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to describe how
>> you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions, IP
>> review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
>> I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll work
>> that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that there
>> will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage with. If I
>> am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process then I'm willing
>> to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the board. I'm
>> reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other mentors here then
>> we can convince the infrastructure team.
>> Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current governance
>> and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way. On the
>> CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member which
>> defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came from Git
>> when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful starting
>> point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already).
>> See http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k
>> Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
>> Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
>> incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
>> alongside SVN in Apache projects.
>> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee that
>> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
>> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully you
>> will be too.
>> Are mentors OK with this?
>> Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have any
>> questions or observations?
>> Ross
>
>
>
> --
> Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
> Programme Leader (Open Development)
> OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
>
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Patrick Mueller <pm...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 05:32, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> On 26 November 2011 22:12, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>> As a result (and because another mentor has
>> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
>> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions before
>> I make that request.
>>
>> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
>
> All mentors have now supported this proposal, so it's over to the committers ...
+1
Thanks for all the effort from everyone who's been involved in making
this happen.
--
Patrick Mueller
http://muellerware.org
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com>.
On 26 November 2011 22:12, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> As a result (and because another mentor has
> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions before
> I make that request.
>
> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
All mentors have now supported this proposal, so it's over to the committers ...
> The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation over on
> the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow in
> managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to describe how
> you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions, IP
> review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
> I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll work
> that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that there
> will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage with. If I
> am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process then I'm willing
> to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the board. I'm
> reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other mentors here then
> we can convince the infrastructure team.
> Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current governance
> and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way. On the
> CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member which
> defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came from Git
> when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful starting
> point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already).
> See http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k
> Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
> Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
> incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
> alongside SVN in Apache projects.
> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee that
> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully you
> will be too.
> Are mentors OK with this?
> Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have any
> questions or observations?
> Ross
--
Ross Gardler (@rgardler)
Programme Leader (Open Development)
OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
RE: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <Gi...@microsoft.com>.
> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee that
> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully you
> will be too.
>
> Are mentors OK with this?
I'm in, with a caveat: if you are looking for a traditional +1 as in "I like it and will help make it happen", then I'm not sure I have the time it is likely to take. If you are fine with me cheering from the sidelines, then I think it would be a good experiment.
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Senior Director, Open Source Communities, Microsoft Corp.
Mobile: +1 (425) 786-8646
Twitter: @gianugo
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Andrew Savory <as...@apache.org>.
Hi,
On 26 November 2011 22:12, Ross Gardler <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> Are mentors OK with this?
>
Yes, and happy to do what I can to help.
Andrew.
--
asavory@apache.org / contact@andrewsavory.com
http://www.andrewsavory.com/
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Christian Grobmeier <gr...@gmail.com>.
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Ross Gardler
<rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
> As some here may know, the ASF has been preparing to roll Git out to all
> projects that want it. This work had been non-trivial, the infrastructure
> team have been working on the technical issues since committing to it at
> ApacheCon in 2010 (and before that they had to figure out what the real
> issues were).
>
> This work has led to the trial in CouchDB. This trial is designed to a)
> test the technical solutions in a working project and b) educate people
> like me who have no experience of working with Git in a community project.
>
> Since becoming aware of this projects desire to "wait it out" before moving
> to the ASF I have been seeing if there is any way of making this happen
> sooner rather than later.
>
> For example, on the infrastructure list I said:
>
> "They (PhoneGap/Callback) have an existing GitHub based community and are a
> well respected project in their own right. The nature of their project
> means that SVN is sub-optimal for reasons we don't hear in the typical Git Vs
> SVN arguments (in short they have lots of platform specific forks of their
> core code but seek to ensure a strong community around the core and each of
> those forks).
> From my limited engagement with them so far I find them respectful of the
> ASFs position and willing to work with us on addressing our concerns. I'm
> not yet sure of how "Apache like" their existing community is, but I do
> find myself saying one thing as a mentor ("you are not allowed to do this")
> whilst feeling another ("you should be allowed to help educate us here"). I
> think we are missing an opportunity.
>
> With strong mentorship I believe this particular project could help us
> accelerate
> the evaluation of Git within ASF communities. I am a mentor and I'm willing
> to commit to safeguarding the experiment."
>
> As you can see, I have some significant concerns. Git, as a tool, can be
> useful to a community managed project. However, it was designed for an
> entirely different management model (the Benevolent Dictator). I'm not
> currently sure of where on this spectrum PhoneGap/Callbac sits. However,
> you asked to come to the ASF, your champion is well respected by more than
> just myself and you have some great mentors (not including me of course). I
> assume we are on fairly safe ground here.
>
> The response to my enquiries has been very positive (it's amazing how
> ill-informed bloggers can be). As a result (and because another mentor has
> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions
> before I make that request.
>
> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
>
> The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation over on
> the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow in
> managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to describe
> how you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions,
> IP review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
>
> I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll work
> that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that
> there will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage
> with. If I am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process then
> I'm willing to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the
> board. I'm reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other
> mentors here then we can convince the infrastructure team.
>
> Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current
> governance and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way.
> On the CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member
> which defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came from
> Git when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful
> starting point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already). See
> http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k
>
> Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
> Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
> incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
> alongside SVN in Apache projects.
>
> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee that
> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully
> you will be too.
>
> Are mentors OK with this?
Ross,
as usual your proposal reads excellent. I would love to see it happen
that way. But I am afraid that I can't help with it. I will write
another mail in a few minutes and step down as a mentor, because of
time/energy issues.
Anyway, I think it is in good mentor hands!
Cheers
--
http://www.grobmeier.de
https://www.timeandbill.de
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
+1 Great idea, thanks for pushing this!
At first, when it became clear how disruptive the switch to svn would be, I
considered it best overall to postpone the migration to Apache infra, but
it's obviously better if there's a chance for us to actively help move
things forward. And as you say the experience of the Callback team would
likely help also the ASF in general.
I'm also able and willing to help with any required backend stuff.
BR,
Jukka Zitting
On Nov 26, 2011 11:13 PM, "Ross Gardler" <rg...@opendirective.com> wrote:
>
> As some here may know, the ASF has been preparing to roll Git out to all
> projects that want it. This work had been non-trivial, the infrastructure
> team have been working on the technical issues since committing to it at
> ApacheCon in 2010 (and before that they had to figure out what the real
> issues were).
>
> This work has led to the trial in CouchDB. This trial is designed to a)
> test the technical solutions in a working project and b) educate people
> like me who have no experience of working with Git in a community project.
>
> Since becoming aware of this projects desire to "wait it out" before
moving
> to the ASF I have been seeing if there is any way of making this happen
> sooner rather than later.
>
> For example, on the infrastructure list I said:
>
> "They (PhoneGap/Callback) have an existing GitHub based community and are
a
> well respected project in their own right. The nature of their project
> means that SVN is sub-optimal for reasons we don't hear in the typical
Git Vs
> SVN arguments (in short they have lots of platform specific forks of their
> core code but seek to ensure a strong community around the core and each
of
> those forks).
> From my limited engagement with them so far I find them respectful of the
> ASFs position and willing to work with us on addressing our concerns. I'm
> not yet sure of how "Apache like" their existing community is, but I do
> find myself saying one thing as a mentor ("you are not allowed to do
this")
> whilst feeling another ("you should be allowed to help educate us here").
I
> think we are missing an opportunity.
>
> With strong mentorship I believe this particular project could help us
> accelerate
> the evaluation of Git within ASF communities. I am a mentor and I'm
willing
> to commit to safeguarding the experiment."
>
> As you can see, I have some significant concerns. Git, as a tool, can be
> useful to a community managed project. However, it was designed for an
> entirely different management model (the Benevolent Dictator). I'm not
> currently sure of where on this spectrum PhoneGap/Callbac sits. However,
> you asked to come to the ASF, your champion is well respected by more than
> just myself and you have some great mentors (not including me of course).
I
> assume we are on fairly safe ground here.
>
> The response to my enquiries has been very positive (it's amazing how
> ill-informed bloggers can be). As a result (and because another mentor has
> stepped up to support my position) I'm willing to make a case to
> infrastructure for you to move to Git ASAP, but I have two conditions
> before I make that request.
>
> The first is that all mentors on this project support my proposal.
>
> The second condition is that the team ensure that the documentation over
on
> the CouchDB project reflects the process that this project will follow in
> managing the canonical repository here at the ASF. I want it to describe
> how you will manage committer contributions, non-committer contributions,
> IP review, releases and whatever else is important to your project.
>
> I'm not really interested in the nitty gritty of the processes, we'll work
> that out in practice. What I want is a document that convinces me that
> there will be a single canonical repository for the community to engage
> with. If I am confident you can use Git in an Apache Way style process
then
> I'm willing to make the case to infrastructure, and if necessary, the
> board. I'm reasonably sure that if you can convince me and the other
> mentors here then we can convince the infrastructure team.
>
> Since you are in the incubator and I know nothing of your current
> governance and I don't know if it is close or distant from the Apache Way.
> On the CouchDB list I have posted some comments from an ASF project member
> which defines the process they use in a git-svn environment (they came
from
> Git when they came to the ASF). This mail will, hopefully, be a useful
> starting point (or maybe its all covered in the wiki page already). See
> http://markmail.org/thread/q43mto5emnhpej2k
>
> Taking off my mentor hat for a moment and putting on my VP Community
> Development hat I will use this document, and what I learn from this
> incubation project, to help ensure that Git can be used successfully
> alongside SVN in Apache projects.
>
> However, please understand that even after all this I cannot guarantee
that
> infrastructure will agree to allow you to move to Git. However, I am
> confident enough to be willing to spend some of my time on it, hopefully
> you will be too.
>
> Are mentors OK with this?
>
> Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have any
> questions or observations?
>
> Ross
Re: [proposal] Moving to Git
Posted by Filip Maj <fi...@adobe.com>.
>Are committers OK with this as a way forwards? Do the committers have any
>questions or observations?
Sounds great. Quick reminder to the rest of the committers to join the
couchdb mailing list:
http://couchdb.apache.org/community/lists.html
.. even if only to pipe in on the git-related threads.