Extensions and templates site down

[Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu>]

Hi All,

The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh to load:
http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/

To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.

Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.

Thanks,
Zoltan

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>]

On 11/07/2011 TJ Frazier wrote:
> On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> > Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
> > http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser
> > and I don't have further updates available. ...
> Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e

Indeed. Thanks for digging it up from my link, I realize I sent just the
generic archive link...

> Just for fun, I tried looking up 
> OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was impenetrable

I was put in CC of the ticket by Thorsten Bosbach of Oracle, and as far
as I know there is no web interface; unfortunately, I don't know how to
add other people in CC or check the ticket history, I just know that I
didn't receive further updates.

Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Jul 12, 2011, at 10:59 PM, Andrea Pescetti wrote:

> On 12/07/2011 Simon Phipps wrote:
>> TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
>> templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect the
>> URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it uses
>> the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.
> 
> While I believe cooperation would be nice and I've written for months
> that I don't support the idea to host OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice
> extensions on separate sites, we should get facts straight on this.
> 
> The LibreOffice extensions site is being developed for two reasons:
> 1) the Document Foundation doesn't want to depend on *.openoffice.org
>   sites (and in this case it cannot, since on the launch day it
>   promised to only offer free software extensions).
> 2) http://extensions.services.openoffice.org was unreachable at times.
> Now, reason 1 does not exactly go in the direction of a shared resource,
> while reason 2 is now obsolete: the site is now fixed and the problems
> were in the caching server, NOT in the OOo extensions site.
> 
> If we are to use a common resource, then let's go for the best one,
> which is (don't consider the URL!) the one currently living at
> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org . Reasons: mature, tested,
> nicer, flexible, populated with hundreds of extensions.
> 
> With a bit (quite a bit) of customization it could even be tweaked so
> that is is accessible, say, both as http://extensions.openoffice.org and
> http://extensions.libreoffice.org and that it shows different branding
> depending on the URL; it could even be set up so that non-free
> extensions are hidden when browsing it in "LibreOffice mode".

That can certainly be done.

> 
> This would be a really shared resource, where anybody can submit
> extensions that anybody can download and use regardless of the software
> he is using, and where all identities are respected. It could of course
> be extended to other derivatives and it would be a remarkable example of
> something useful to the whole community.

+1 and the key is not so much the site in front as it is the repository behind it.

Maybe we should have a shared repository somewhere with agreed upon metadata and files all stored in a repository. A bunch of mirrors and alternative front-ends are possible.

Each project (OpenOffice.org, LibreOffice, Lotus Symphony, RedOffice, ....) would then be responsible for validating the extension vs. product versions. In addition the license could be reviewed and be marked for compatibility with either ASF, FSF, dual license commercial, etc.

Having a repository with credentials etc. would be a good separation of concerns. UIs like extensions.services.openoffice.org and http://extensions.libreoffice.org become read-only front-ends. Contributors of extensions and templates would request a directory within the repository and then get direct access to use which ever front end they prefer to maintain their repository.

Projects can query for new extensions and templates to test and then indicate the revisions that are "tested" for each version.

Please feel free to start a migration plan for extensions and templates on the Community Wiki at https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Extensions+and+templates

Please continue this thread.

Regards,
Dave

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>]

On 12/07/2011 Simon Phipps wrote:
> TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
> templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect the
> URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it uses
> the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.

While I believe cooperation would be nice and I've written for months
that I don't support the idea to host OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice
extensions on separate sites, we should get facts straight on this.

The LibreOffice extensions site is being developed for two reasons:
1) the Document Foundation doesn't want to depend on *.openoffice.org
   sites (and in this case it cannot, since on the launch day it
   promised to only offer free software extensions).
2) http://extensions.services.openoffice.org was unreachable at times.
Now, reason 1 does not exactly go in the direction of a shared resource,
while reason 2 is now obsolete: the site is now fixed and the problems
were in the caching server, NOT in the OOo extensions site.

If we are to use a common resource, then let's go for the best one,
which is (don't consider the URL!) the one currently living at
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org . Reasons: mature, tested,
nicer, flexible, populated with hundreds of extensions.

With a bit (quite a bit) of customization it could even be tweaked so
that is is accessible, say, both as http://extensions.openoffice.org and
http://extensions.libreoffice.org and that it shows different branding
depending on the URL; it could even be set up so that non-free
extensions are hidden when browsing it in "LibreOffice mode".

This would be a really shared resource, where anybody can submit
extensions that anybody can download and use regardless of the software
he is using, and where all identities are respected. It could of course
be extended to other derivatives and it would be a remarkable example of
something useful to the whole community.

Regards,
  Andrea.

RE: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

["Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>]

In a distributed system, you also need to deal with security issues and the safety of the download.  

It might mean that the directory contains signatures or something that the downloading app can use to validate what it gets from the download URL, especially if we are going to do silent downloads and installs when the user says go get-em.

There is probably other attack surface to identify as well.

 - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: drew [mailto:drew@baseanswers.com] 
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 09:16
To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 17:11 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:
> Hi Rob,
> 
> On Sunday, 2011-08-14 10:17:28 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> 
> > IIRC, these extensions are 3rd party, under a variety of licenses,
> > including some that are not open source.  Is that correct?
> 
> Yes.

I for one agree with this expansive policy, but understand that personal
views of the members here are strong and across the spectrum. Indeed the
policy adopted for the TDF repository is a compromise to address the
question.

> 
> > Another option, which I brought up the last time this topic was
> > discussed on the list, is that we maintain a catalog of extensions,
> > but don't maintain the storage of the extensions themselves.  So a
> > distributed approach where we own the directory.
> 
> Currently OOo has the functionality to query whether an upgrade of the
> extension is available and to download and update if so. The directory
> then should implement that. Note that it is not necessary to have the
> directory provide the extension itself, this is already the case with
> the current extension repository that allows to host the extension at
> a different place. IIRC some metadata and an URL is sufficient,
> hopefully someone familiar with the mechanism can jump in on that. Maybe
> Juergen?
> 
> > >From the end-user perspective, they should not notice a big
> > difference.  They browse a list of extensions, click 'download' and
> > they get the extension.  But the extension would be served by an
> > external site, the responsibility of the extension author.
> > 
> > For this to work we'd need some way for extension authors to submit
> > their extension descriptions and metadata.  Maybe a simple XML format,
> > or a web form that generates that XML.  Then you need a program to gen
> > the website from the XML.  Xalan XSLT could be used for this, for
> > example.
> > 
> > What do you think of a distributed approach like this?

I have two quantitative questions which I would strongly wish to have
answered, if possible, before offering my opinion on long(ish) hosting
options.

1 - The percentage of inbound visitors coming from the application vs
from search engines.

2 - The percentage of artifacts that are stored directly on the OSUOSL
server vs a link to a remote site. I am working on the assumption that
this is a very high ratio, where a goodly number of these local files
are _likely_ stored only on this server. (not sure there would be anyway
to actually answer the last part of that sentence for sure..)


> 
> Fine. Isn't much different from the current situation. Best if technical
> details could be worked out such that no code apart from the actual
> repository/directory URL needed to be changed.

One other thought - I want to restate what I said earlier, regarding
what we can (could) do on a server inside the ASF physical custody vs
3rd party maintained servers - I believe I should of based the
distinction not on the location of the server, but rather the URL
(domain), so that it is significant the difference between
[x].openoffice.org and openoffice.apache.org/[x].

Thanks

//drew

> 
>   Eike
> 

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Andy Brown <an...@the-martin-byrd.net>]

Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Andy Brown<an...@the-martin-byrd.net>  wrote:
>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Andy Brown<an...@the-martin-byrd.net>
>>>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>      wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [from out of left field]
>>>>>> Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
>>>>>> hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>>>>>> specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>>>>>> un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> move the entire repository without needing to locate individual
>>>>>> authors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
>>>>> server.  It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
>>>>> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
>>>>
>>>> Considering the fact that the URLs are part of service.openoffice.org and
>>>> AOOo will be getting the domains as part of the SGA, then it would seem
>>>> that
>>>> we own them, at least the name.  So the domain could be hosted any where
>>>> that the PPMC see fit, even at OSUOSL.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That logic doesn't follow.  Hypothetically there could be legacy
>>> OpenOffice.org URL's that contain Lady Gaga rips.  That doesn't mean
>>> we have ownership of the music.
>>>
>>> We own the URL.  We control what the URL points to.  But that doesn't
>>> mean we own what the URL points to.
>>>
>>
>> Please read all that I wrote, "at least the name.  So the domain could be
>> hosted any where that the PPMC see fit."  I agree that we may not own the
>> content but if a 3rd party wished to host them the PPMC could give its
>> consent to do so and have the URLs point to that IP address.
>>
>
> OK. Sorry.  It sounds like we have a similar understanding then.  Our
> consent is not needed for them to host the extensions, but only for us
> to point (or redirect) our URL to their site.
>

Correct.

Andy

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Andy Brown <an...@the-martin-byrd.net> wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Andy Brown<an...@the-martin-byrd.net>
>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>    wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> [from out of left field]
>>>>> Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
>>>>> hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>>>>> specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create
>>>>> the
>>>>> indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>>>>> un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This
>>>>> would
>>>>> move the entire repository without needing to locate individual
>>>>> authors.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
>>>> server.  It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
>>>> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
>>>
>>> Considering the fact that the URLs are part of service.openoffice.org and
>>> AOOo will be getting the domains as part of the SGA, then it would seem
>>> that
>>> we own them, at least the name.  So the domain could be hosted any where
>>> that the PPMC see fit, even at OSUOSL.
>>>
>>
>> That logic doesn't follow.  Hypothetically there could be legacy
>> OpenOffice.org URL's that contain Lady Gaga rips.  That doesn't mean
>> we have ownership of the music.
>>
>> We own the URL.  We control what the URL points to.  But that doesn't
>> mean we own what the URL points to.
>>
>
> Please read all that I wrote, "at least the name.  So the domain could be
> hosted any where that the PPMC see fit."  I agree that we may not own the
> content but if a 3rd party wished to host them the PPMC could give its
> consent to do so and have the URLs point to that IP address.
>

OK. Sorry.  It sounds like we have a similar understanding then.  Our
consent is not needed for them to host the extensions, but only for us
to point (or redirect) our URL to their site.


> Andy
>

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Andy Brown <an...@the-martin-byrd.net>]

Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Andy Brown<an...@the-martin-byrd.net>  wrote:
>> Rob Weir wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>    wrote:
>>>>
>>>> [from out of left field]
>>>> Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
>>>> hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>>>> specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
>>>> indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>>>> un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
>>>> move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
>>> server.  It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
>>> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
>>
>> Considering the fact that the URLs are part of service.openoffice.org and
>> AOOo will be getting the domains as part of the SGA, then it would seem that
>> we own them, at least the name.  So the domain could be hosted any where
>> that the PPMC see fit, even at OSUOSL.
>>
>
> That logic doesn't follow.  Hypothetically there could be legacy
> OpenOffice.org URL's that contain Lady Gaga rips.  That doesn't mean
> we have ownership of the music.
>
> We own the URL.  We control what the URL points to.  But that doesn't
> mean we own what the URL points to.
>

Please read all that I wrote, "at least the name.  So the domain could 
be hosted any where that the PPMC see fit."  I agree that we may not own 
the content but if a 3rd party wished to host them the PPMC could give 
its consent to do so and have the URLs point to that IP address.

Andy

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Andy Brown <an...@the-martin-byrd.net> wrote:
> Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>> [from out of left field]
>>> Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
>>> hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>>> specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
>>> indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>>> un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
>>> move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.
>>>
>>
>> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
>> server.  It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
>> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
>
> Considering the fact that the URLs are part of service.openoffice.org and
> AOOo will be getting the domains as part of the SGA, then it would seem that
> we own them, at least the name.  So the domain could be hosted any where
> that the PPMC see fit, even at OSUOSL.
>

That logic doesn't follow.  Hypothetically there could be legacy
OpenOffice.org URL's that contain Lady Gaga rips.  That doesn't mean
we have ownership of the music.

We own the URL.  We control what the URL points to.  But that doesn't
mean we own what the URL points to.

> My 2cents.
>
> Andy
>

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Andy Brown <an...@the-martin-byrd.net>]

Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>> [from out of left field]
>> Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
>> hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>> specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
>> indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>> un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
>> move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.
>>
>
> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
> server.  It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.

Considering the fact that the URLs are part of service.openoffice.org 
and AOOo will be getting the domains as part of the SGA, then it would 
seem that we own them, at least the name.  So the domain could be hosted 
any where that the PPMC see fit, even at OSUOSL.

My 2cents.

Andy

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

2011/8/15 Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> >> > [from out of left field]
>> >> > Would members consider transferring ownership of the current
>> repository
>> >> > hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>> >> > specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create
>> the
>> >> > indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>> >> > un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This
>> would
>> >> > move the entire repository without needing to locate individual
>> authors.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
>> >> server.
>> >
>> > Hi Rob,
>> >
>> > Well, I'm not at all sure I agree with that, what exactly happened then
>> > when the Sun brand came off the site and the Oracle brand went up, that
>> > was window dressing with regards to the site name - Oracle could not of
>> > moved the site to xxx.oracleoffice.org even if they also maintained a
>> > live redirect of the old address?
>> >
>>
>> Generally, you may do whatever the owner of the copyright allows you
>> to do.  The trick is to determine what the copyright owner allows you.
>>  With the lax attention to this detail by the OOo community over the
>> years, this important fact is hard to determine in many cases.  This
>> is something we should not seek to repeat at Apache.
>>
>> Not just with extensions, but throughout the project we are going to find a
>> mix:
>>
>> 1) Things we are certain we have rights to use, e.g., things in the
>> SGA, under Apache 2.0, things with clear provenance
>>
>> 2) Things that we are certain we do not have rights to use, e.g., GPL
>> components.
>>
>> 3) Things that we cannot determine whether or not we have rights to use.
>>
>> We're going to spend most of our time on that 3rd category.  But once
>> we've done that, and documented it, then we've improved the project
>> considerably and made it easier for us and others going forward.  But
>> it might require that we eliminate some contributions that were
>> otherwise excellent, because we cannot confirm our rights to use them.
>>
>> >> It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
>> >> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
>> >>
>> >> But if a 3rd party steps forward and is willing to navigate the
>> >> licenses and figure out way to host them all, then I'd wish them the
>> >> best of luck.
>> >>
>> >> The main technical things we need to coordinate are:
>> >>
>> >> 1) How are submissions made to the catalog
>>
> i would prefer a web form as in the existing repo
>
>
>> >>
>> >> 2) How is the catalog queried?
>> >>
>> >> 3) How are extension updates propagated?
>> >>
>>
> The existing mechanism works quite well
>
> See also
> http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/Extensions/Online_Update_of_Extensions
> and related sub chapters
>
>
>> >> 4) Do we want a single catalog, in the style of Firefox plugins, or
>> >> allow multiple catalogs, perhaps filtered by support category or
>> >> license, like Ubuntu?
>>
> i would prefer a multi repo (catalog) approach directly from the office to
> allow maximal flexibility
>
>
>> >>
>> >> 5) What do we need to do to ensure a clean programmatic interface to
>> >> the catalog (a RESTful service) as well as a good end-user UI?
>> >>
>> >> 6) Is there a way we can manage, with sufficient user data protection
>> >> provisions, some sort of recommendation engine, where extensions are
>> >> recommended either based on user actions, or based on ratings and
>> >> similarities to other users (collaborative filtering)?
>> >>
>> >> 7) Is there anything we can do to allow the user to interact with
>> >> extensions (browse, sort, filter, download, rate, update, etc.)
>> >> entirely within OOo editors?
>>
> definitely,
> update is already possible but browsing extensions directly form the office
> is a long wanted feature. And not only for extensions. A new designed
> template dialog that allows browsing a template repo, download of templates
> for offline use, allows the upload in this repo (under Apache 2.0),
>
> But for both extensions and templates it is important that we make it
> configurable. Means it should be possible to disable it or to limit it to a
> specific repo only. This is important for enterprises with more
> restrictions. But it allows to manage a local repo for company wide used
> extensions and templates. A single place for maintenance (updates,
> bugifxes)  of these extensions/templates.
>

That is an excellent point.  The ability to define a corporate
extension catalog would be an important enterprise feature.

If could almost be like Atom or RSS -- items and feeds.

>
>> >>
>> >> So in general, I think this is an opportunity to do more than just
>> >> re-host the existing extensions site.  It is an opportunity to rethink
>> >> how users and extensions authors could interact.
>> >
>> > I agree with much of that
>> > - I guess I would opt here to pull us back from either my
>> > out-of-left-field idea, or the perfect solution for the moment.
>> >
>> > Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>> > current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>> > site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>> > volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>> >
>>
>> That sounds like a wonderful near-term solution.
>>
>
> indeed and it would give us some more time to think about a good solution
>
>
>>
>> It is a matter of perspective:
>>
>> 1) Is the extensions site an official service provided by the project?
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2) Is the extensions site a 3rd party service for the benefit of the
>> larger community?
>>
>
> i would like to see both.
>
> 1) an official and default Apache extension repository (under Apache 2.0)
>
> and 2) a well defined interface that allow others to run a 3rd party
> repository.
>
> A good and working extension infrastructure and a better integration in the
> office directly is a key element from my point of view for a working
> eco-system.
>
> Juergen
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I think either one is fine, but each has its own constraints.  With
>> #1, we are then under Apache rules for license, etc.   But we can use
>> Apache hardware.
>>
>> And for #2, we are free to link to the external service from our
>> website, but we should have a disclaimer, along the lines of what
>> Apache Subversion has for its binary releases:
>>
>> "The Apache Subversion project does not officially endorse or maintain
>> any binary packages of the Subversion software. However, volunteers
>> have created binary packages for different distributions and
>> platforms, and as a convenience, we maintain a list of links to them
>> here."
>>
>>
>> > While not to lose focus on working those longer term ideas.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> > //drew
>> >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:28 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> >> > [from out of left field]
> >> > Would members consider transferring ownership of the current
> repository
> >> > hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
> >> > specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create
> the
> >> > indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
> >> > un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This
> would
> >> > move the entire repository without needing to locate individual
> authors.
> >> >
> >>
> >> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
> >> server.
> >
> > Hi Rob,
> >
> > Well, I'm not at all sure I agree with that, what exactly happened then
> > when the Sun brand came off the site and the Oracle brand went up, that
> > was window dressing with regards to the site name - Oracle could not of
> > moved the site to xxx.oracleoffice.org even if they also maintained a
> > live redirect of the old address?
> >
>
> Generally, you may do whatever the owner of the copyright allows you
> to do.  The trick is to determine what the copyright owner allows you.
>  With the lax attention to this detail by the OOo community over the
> years, this important fact is hard to determine in many cases.  This
> is something we should not seek to repeat at Apache.
>
> Not just with extensions, but throughout the project we are going to find a
> mix:
>
> 1) Things we are certain we have rights to use, e.g., things in the
> SGA, under Apache 2.0, things with clear provenance
>
> 2) Things that we are certain we do not have rights to use, e.g., GPL
> components.
>
> 3) Things that we cannot determine whether or not we have rights to use.
>
> We're going to spend most of our time on that 3rd category.  But once
> we've done that, and documented it, then we've improved the project
> considerably and made it easier for us and others going forward.  But
> it might require that we eliminate some contributions that were
> otherwise excellent, because we cannot confirm our rights to use them.
>
> >> It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
> >> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
> >>
> >> But if a 3rd party steps forward and is willing to navigate the
> >> licenses and figure out way to host them all, then I'd wish them the
> >> best of luck.
> >>
> >> The main technical things we need to coordinate are:
> >>
> >> 1) How are submissions made to the catalog
>
i would prefer a web form as in the existing repo


> >>
> >> 2) How is the catalog queried?
> >>
> >> 3) How are extension updates propagated?
> >>
>
The existing mechanism works quite well

See also
http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/DevGuide/Extensions/Online_Update_of_Extensions
and related sub chapters


> >> 4) Do we want a single catalog, in the style of Firefox plugins, or
> >> allow multiple catalogs, perhaps filtered by support category or
> >> license, like Ubuntu?
>
i would prefer a multi repo (catalog) approach directly from the office to
allow maximal flexibility


> >>
> >> 5) What do we need to do to ensure a clean programmatic interface to
> >> the catalog (a RESTful service) as well as a good end-user UI?
> >>
> >> 6) Is there a way we can manage, with sufficient user data protection
> >> provisions, some sort of recommendation engine, where extensions are
> >> recommended either based on user actions, or based on ratings and
> >> similarities to other users (collaborative filtering)?
> >>
> >> 7) Is there anything we can do to allow the user to interact with
> >> extensions (browse, sort, filter, download, rate, update, etc.)
> >> entirely within OOo editors?
>
definitely,
update is already possible but browsing extensions directly form the office
is a long wanted feature. And not only for extensions. A new designed
template dialog that allows browsing a template repo, download of templates
for offline use, allows the upload in this repo (under Apache 2.0),

But for both extensions and templates it is important that we make it
configurable. Means it should be possible to disable it or to limit it to a
specific repo only. This is important for enterprises with more
restrictions. But it allows to manage a local repo for company wide used
extensions and templates. A single place for maintenance (updates,
bugifxes)  of these extensions/templates.


> >>
> >> So in general, I think this is an opportunity to do more than just
> >> re-host the existing extensions site.  It is an opportunity to rethink
> >> how users and extensions authors could interact.
> >
> > I agree with much of that
> > - I guess I would opt here to pull us back from either my
> > out-of-left-field idea, or the perfect solution for the moment.
> >
> > Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
> > current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
> > site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
> > volunteer help to get that done, asap.
> >
>
> That sounds like a wonderful near-term solution.
>

indeed and it would give us some more time to think about a good solution


>
> It is a matter of perspective:
>
> 1) Is the extensions site an official service provided by the project?
>
> or
>
> 2) Is the extensions site a 3rd party service for the benefit of the
> larger community?
>

i would like to see both.

1) an official and default Apache extension repository (under Apache 2.0)

and 2) a well defined interface that allow others to run a 3rd party
repository.

A good and working extension infrastructure and a better integration in the
office directly is a key element from my point of view for a working
eco-system.

Juergen



>
>
> I think either one is fine, but each has its own constraints.  With
> #1, we are then under Apache rules for license, etc.   But we can use
> Apache hardware.
>
> And for #2, we are free to link to the external service from our
> website, but we should have a disclaimer, along the lines of what
> Apache Subversion has for its binary releases:
>
> "The Apache Subversion project does not officially endorse or maintain
> any binary packages of the Subversion software. However, volunteers
> have created binary packages for different distributions and
> platforms, and as a convenience, we maintain a list of links to them
> here."
>
>
> > While not to lose focus on working those longer term ideas.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> >
> > //drew
> >
> >
>

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 2:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> > [from out of left field]
>> > Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
>> > hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>> > specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
>> > indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>> > un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
>> > move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.
>> >
>>
>> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
>> server.
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Well, I'm not at all sure I agree with that, what exactly happened then
> when the Sun brand came off the site and the Oracle brand went up, that
> was window dressing with regards to the site name - Oracle could not of
> moved the site to xxx.oracleoffice.org even if they also maintained a
> live redirect of the old address?
>

Generally, you may do whatever the owner of the copyright allows you
to do.  The trick is to determine what the copyright owner allows you.
 With the lax attention to this detail by the OOo community over the
years, this important fact is hard to determine in many cases.  This
is something we should not seek to repeat at Apache.

Not just with extensions, but throughout the project we are going to find a mix:

1) Things we are certain we have rights to use, e.g., things in the
SGA, under Apache 2.0, things with clear provenance

2) Things that we are certain we do not have rights to use, e.g., GPL
components.

3) Things that we cannot determine whether or not we have rights to use.

We're going to spend most of our time on that 3rd category.  But once
we've done that, and documented it, then we've improved the project
considerably and made it easier for us and others going forward.  But
it might require that we eliminate some contributions that were
otherwise excellent, because we cannot confirm our rights to use them.

>> It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
>> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
>>
>> But if a 3rd party steps forward and is willing to navigate the
>> licenses and figure out way to host them all, then I'd wish them the
>> best of luck.
>>
>> The main technical things we need to coordinate are:
>>
>> 1) How are submissions made to the catalog
>>
>> 2) How is the catalog queried?
>>
>> 3) How are extension updates propagated?
>>
>> 4) Do we want a single catalog, in the style of Firefox plugins, or
>> allow multiple catalogs, perhaps filtered by support category or
>> license, like Ubuntu?
>>
>> 5) What do we need to do to ensure a clean programmatic interface to
>> the catalog (a RESTful service) as well as a good end-user UI?
>>
>> 6) Is there a way we can manage, with sufficient user data protection
>> provisions, some sort of recommendation engine, where extensions are
>> recommended either based on user actions, or based on ratings and
>> similarities to other users (collaborative filtering)?
>>
>> 7) Is there anything we can do to allow the user to interact with
>> extensions (browse, sort, filter, download, rate, update, etc.)
>> entirely within OOo editors?
>>
>> So in general, I think this is an opportunity to do more than just
>> re-host the existing extensions site.  It is an opportunity to rethink
>> how users and extensions authors could interact.
>
> I agree with much of that
> - I guess I would opt here to pull us back from either my
> out-of-left-field idea, or the perfect solution for the moment.
>
> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>

That sounds like a wonderful near-term solution.

It is a matter of perspective:

1) Is the extensions site an official service provided by the project?

or

2) Is the extensions site a 3rd party service for the benefit of the
larger community?


I think either one is fine, but each has its own constraints.  With
#1, we are then under Apache rules for license, etc.   But we can use
Apache hardware.

And for #2, we are free to link to the external service from our
website, but we should have a disclaimer, along the lines of what
Apache Subversion has for its binary releases:

"The Apache Subversion project does not officially endorse or maintain
any binary packages of the Subversion software. However, volunteers
have created binary packages for different distributions and
platforms, and as a convenience, we maintain a list of links to them
here."


> While not to lose focus on working those longer term ideas.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> //drew
>
>

Re: Future extensions registry hosting

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 22:48 -0400, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> A couple of brief general comments:
> 
> - Apache's mission is to provide software for the public good, under the 
> Apache license or a fundamentally compatible one.  Hence, we do not 
> distribute GPL code, for one example (see Category X licenses).
> 
> - Apache projects typically must use Apache managed hardware for hosting 
> websites and other important services.  This allows us to be 
> self-sufficient in the case of outages, and ensure that we can control 
> our own fate.
> 
> - There are plenty of technical solutions for creating registries (i.e. 
> metadata about and pointers to, but not necessarily hosting the source) 
> of bits of software - both the httpd module stuff, various other obvious 
> projects, and even our own Maven and Archiva projects.
> 
> - It's clear that there are such a wide variety of services and bits of 
> software hosted at URLs related to openoffice.org that we have quite a 
> significant task ahead to maintaining as much of the existing services 
> to the millions of end users, while also respecting Apache policies.
> 
> - We have friends who work on the Google infrastructure behind 
> apache-extras.org (and infra@ can put you in touch with people once 
> there's some specific proposals, I hope)
> 
> I'm sure we can figure ways to have us host the metadata and any 
> appropriately licensed software, and have appropriate owners host any 
> software that falls under other kinds of licenses.  But it's not going 
> to be easy...

- but we need not make it harder then need be - so it seems past time to
start pulling specifics together on the wiki:
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Extensions+and
+templates

Will work on pulling specific items from the longish threads here into a
plan we can work through and issues to get there, on that page over the
weekend.

> 
> And we shouldn't let it distract us too much from getting the actual 
> product source code checked in and building, either!

Right!



//drew

Future extensions registry hosting

[Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>]

A couple of brief general comments:

- Apache's mission is to provide software for the public good, under the 
Apache license or a fundamentally compatible one.  Hence, we do not 
distribute GPL code, for one example (see Category X licenses).

- Apache projects typically must use Apache managed hardware for hosting 
websites and other important services.  This allows us to be 
self-sufficient in the case of outages, and ensure that we can control 
our own fate.

- There are plenty of technical solutions for creating registries (i.e. 
metadata about and pointers to, but not necessarily hosting the source) 
of bits of software - both the httpd module stuff, various other obvious 
projects, and even our own Maven and Archiva projects.

- It's clear that there are such a wide variety of services and bits of 
software hosted at URLs related to openoffice.org that we have quite a 
significant task ahead to maintaining as much of the existing services 
to the millions of end users, while also respecting Apache policies.

- We have friends who work on the Google infrastructure behind 
apache-extras.org (and infra@ can put you in touch with people once 
there's some specific proposals, I hope)

I'm sure we can figure ways to have us host the metadata and any 
appropriately licensed software, and have appropriate owners host any 
software that falls under other kinds of licenses.  But it's not going 
to be easy...

And we shouldn't let it distract us too much from getting the actual 
product source code checked in and building, either!


- Shane, dropping off to zleep... zzzzzzzz

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp ... ERRTHREADTOOLONG

[Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>]

Is it just me, or has anyone else missed a number of important branding, 
technology, and hosting questions in this thread, now that it's gone 
down about 32 levels and changed subjects a few times?

Maybe I'm just tired tonight, but there are nuggets in here that are far 
more important than what the subject currently implies.

Good night, all!

- Shane

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 14:45 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:58 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
> >> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> >> > On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> >> > >> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> >> > > <big snip>
> >> > >
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
> >> > >>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
> >> > >>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
> >> > >>> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
> >> > >>> should be back online now.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
> >> > >>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
> >> > >>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
> >> > >>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
> >> > >>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
> >> > >>> because they just go off all the time.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
> >> > >>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
> >> > >>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
> >> > >>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
> >> > >>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
> >> > >>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
> >> > >>> resources.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> Thanks-
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
> >> > >>
> >> > > Howdy Dave
> >> > >
> >> > > Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
> >> > > posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
> >> > > someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
> >> > > the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
> >> >
> >> > Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
> >>
> >> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)
> >
> > Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
> > page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
> > templates and 'connection reset'
> >
> > No hands up here yet that I've seen.
> >
> > People do want to have this site up, yes?
> >
> > So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.
> >
> > I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
> > the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
> > VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)
> >
> 
> What are you trying to accomplish?

Hi Rob

my understanding is that part of the solution is an upgrade of the
current site from Drupal 5 to 6 (and some work on caching) and this
upgrade includes working in the custom code. So that is what I am going
to try to do - on a test instance and when I'm done (assuming it works
out) to offer the change for use on the live site at OSUOSL.

Now I've installed Drupal maybe 7,8 times (versions 5,6) out of the box,
I've installed a few mods and done a little theming, but no hacking on
the core stuff, which it is my understanding was done here, so I would
love to have someone who knows more then I to do doing this, but I'll
give a try.

//drew

> 
> I thought the fact that the extensions site was hosting software
> downloads that were not all under the Apache 2.0 license, and in some
> cases were not even OSS, made it impossible for us to be hosting the
> site on Apache servers.
> 
> 
> > _while_
> >
> > Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.
> >
> > OK
> >
> > //drew
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> //drew
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 13:27 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Aug 16, 2011, at 1:14 PM, drew wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:02 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
> >>> While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
> >>> I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
> >>> especially if we don't change the dns from
> >>> openoffice.org to apache.org.
> >>> 
> >>> We already host modules.apache.org which provides
> >>> a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
> >>> implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
> >>> served by us, we just point users at the offsite
> >>> sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
> >>> probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
> >>> extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
> >> would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
> >> solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
> >> 
> >> Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
> >> code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
> >> extensions registry.  It has the basics.
> > 
> > 
> > Alright - If I may just ask a couple of question.
> > 
> > There is a current site, not on ASF or Oracle hardware, that site needs
> > work, now then:
> > 
> > Is there some reason why the current OSUOSL site can not be used going
> > forward? 
> 
> It is undersized, saturated and that is why it is sporadic and then goes away.
> 
> It is so bad they (OSUOSL) turned off Nagios. Now whether or not it can be made to work better is a detail that support@osuosl.org will need to answer.
> 
> We need them to let you in to the box.

OK - well, didn't send any emails yet, glad I didn't. Did however catch
up on the emails here and on the proper OO.o mailing list.

So - I'm way, way behind the curve here - the Drupal 5 to 6 update
already happened. It helped some, but not enough - One person thinks a
move from 6 to 7, bringing a change in caching architecture would maybe
do the trick, but back in May they thought it was too soon to do yet
another upgrade.

There are inks to usage reports that show what is happening with the
Apache servers running the service, etc.

So again, I think it makes sense to, and I will, pop to the Apache infra
ML and ask for help - I'm not asking for any Apache infrastructure
allocation, just asking if there is any individual there, that knows
this stuff in and out, and willing to offer a hand..I'll report back.

//drew

> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> 
> > 
> > I just have not heard that states as such.
> > 
> > //drew
> > 
> 
> 

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 16, 2011, at 1:14 PM, drew wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:02 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
>>> While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
>>> I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
>>> especially if we don't change the dns from
>>> openoffice.org to apache.org.
>>> 
>>> We already host modules.apache.org which provides
>>> a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
>>> implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
>>> served by us, we just point users at the offsite
>>> sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
>>> probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
>>> extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
>>> 
>> 
>> We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
>> would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
>> solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
>> 
>> Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
>> code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
>> extensions registry.  It has the basics.
> 
> 
> Alright - If I may just ask a couple of question.
> 
> There is a current site, not on ASF or Oracle hardware, that site needs
> work, now then:
> 
> Is there some reason why the current OSUOSL site can not be used going
> forward? 

It is undersized, saturated and that is why it is sporadic and then goes away.

It is so bad they (OSUOSL) turned off Nagios. Now whether or not it can be made to work better is a detail that support@osuosl.org will need to answer.

We need them to let you in to the box.

Regards,
Dave


> 
> I just have not heard that states as such.
> 
> //drew
> 

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 16, 2011, at 6:23 PM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:26 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:36 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:14 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:02 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>> It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
>>>>>> While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
>>>>>> I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
>>>>>> especially if we don't change the dns from
>>>>>> openoffice.org to apache.org.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We already host modules.apache.org which provides
>>>>>> a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
>>>>>> implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
>>>>>> served by us, we just point users at the offsite
>>>>>> sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
>>>>>> probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
>>>>>> extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
>>>>> would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
>>>>> solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
>>>>> code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
>>>>> extensions registry.  It has the basics.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Alright - If I may just ask a couple of question.
>>>> 
>>>> There is a current site, not on ASF or Oracle hardware, that site needs
>>>> work, now then:
>>>> 
>>>> Is there some reason why the current OSUOSL site can not be used going
>>>> forward?
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Permission wise?  If it is not on Apache Infrastructure, then it is
>>> not an Apache server, and I don't think Apache would care much.
>>> 
>>> The "gotcha" here is the trademark and the domain name.  Namely, our
>>> website points to the extension site via an openoffice.org URL
>>> (http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/) and the extension site
>>> uses the OpenOffice.org trademark.
>>> 
>>> So if we treat it like an external website, not controlled by Apache,
>>> then we need to get the trademark use into conformance with Apache
>>> policy.  The experts can correct me, but the following steps might be
>>> appropriate:
>>> 
>>> 1) Links from Apache-controlled websites the extensions site should
>>> come with a disclaimer saying something along the lines of:
>>> 
>>> "The Apache OpenOffice.org project does not officially endorse or
>>> maintain the extensions hosted at XXX.  If there are any problems with
>>> or questions about the extensions please go XXX"
>>> 
>>> 2) The PPMC, in conjunction with Apache Branding, could review and
>>> approve the use of the OpenOffice.org trademark and logo by the
>>> extension website, provided it carries a prominent disclaimer along
>>> the lines of the above.
>>> 
>>> 3)  We could redirect extensions.services.openoffice.org to the OSUOSL
>>> for a period of time, but they should start using and promoting a new
>>> URL, perhaps even a new domain name for the extensions.
>>> 
>>> Personally, I'd like to see us move to a distributed registry
>>> approach, as was discussed earlier in the thread [1].  But that does
>>> nothing to help with the immediate need for increased availability of
>>> the site.
>>> 
>>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/bmwviy2ls5qqtqev#query:+page:1+mid:bmwviy2ls5qqtqev+state:results
>>> 
>> 
>> Right - sorry for being slow on the uptake, I am like that often.
>> 
>> Here is what I think I know:
>> 
>> Oracle will at some point like us to remove their logo from the
>> OpenOffice.org sites, including extensions.s.oo.o.
>> 
>> Jurgen, You and others are making progress on the git to svn migration.
>> 
>> Dave is plowing along with a migration plan for, and execution of,
>> moving the main site into the Apache infrastructure.
>> 
>> Kay looks to be ready to start moving part of the stie, project pages
>> IIRC, also.
>> 
>> Terry has the wiki and forums up on staging servers, in the Apache
>> infrastructure.
>> 
>> The other srevices, pootle, bugxilla, eis2, etc I don't know about,
>> havent tried to keep up. (but I did read Rapheal's page on Bugzilla).
>> 
> 
> I think the above would make great material for a post on the
> project's blog, an update on the various parallel efforts we have in
> motion.
> 
>> On the extensions/templates service - I know There are millions of
>> OpenOffice.org users that link to this URL and will be for at least some
>> goodly number of months into the future.
>> 
>> It seems to me that the user facing web infrastructure is going to be
>> ready for the move fairly soon now, with code and tools sections,
>> likely, lagging a bit, but I would expect Oracle would like all the
>> stuff moved/rebranded ASAP.
>> 
>> 
>> So
>> - how long do you think we can go with the current arrangement?
> 
> Only Oracle can answer that.  But that really doesn't impact the
> extensions site, since it is not on Oracle servers.
> 
>> - and here I may be, being, slow again. It sound like you are saying
>> that on day one, after the web sites are rebranded, then this disclaomer
>> is needed at the current extensiions.s.oo.o, since it has un-savory
>> items. Am I correct on that? IF so and if the disclaimer is to say that
>> the site is not run by the PPMC, then by who (or is that whom)? Are you
>> saying that OSUUSL would be the responsible party?
>> 
> 
> Responsibility to me means:
> 
> 1) If the server is hacked, who cleans it up?
> 
> 2) If someone uploads unauthorized code (code they do not have the
> rights to) who responds to the take down notice?
> 
> 3) If the underlying application stack require a critical security
> update, who monitors this and applies the patches?
> 
> 4) Who monitors logs for errors, optimizes the database, does the
> backups and other routine maintenance?
> 
> 5) Who sets the policies for what kind of extensions are allowed and
> which are not allowed?
> 
> 6) Who decides who has what permissions on the server, from sysadmin,
> to application admin, etc.
> 
> 7) Who removes spam from the user comments, and generally enforces the
> terms of service?
> 
> These are the kinds of things that the PPMC, in conjunction with
> Apache Infrastructure, does for websites that we control.
> 
> Do you know, is anyone doing something similar for the extensions web
> site?  Is OSUUSL doing this?  Or is there a vacuum now?
> 
> This isn't a trivial task.  You might be able to get a Drupal expert
> to help restore the website to working order.  But then who maintains
> it and prevents it from falling apart in 6 more months?  Who has the
> ongoing responsibility for the website?
> 
> Maybe someone else has a better idea, but I can think of a few
> long-term solutions:
> 
> 1) Find a group of people interested in taking responsibility for the
> website in its current form (hosting the downloads, including OSS,
> freeware, shareware, trialware, etc.)
> 
> 2) Morph the existing site into something that could be hosted at
> Apache.  For example, host no files, just metadata, for the
> extensions.   Extension authors are responsible for hosting their
> downloads someplace.

There is also an OOo Kenai project with an OOo domain.

http://external.openoffice.org/

We are going to need to incorporate this, remove it, or edit it for our Apache version of openoffice.org. This is policy to be altered somehow.

If the extensions and templates servers are hosting the actual downloads then there ought to be a transition to either hosting by the authors or a mirror system.

If the downloads are distributed to mirrors then perhaps the current servers at extensions.services.openoffice.org will suffice.

> 
> #2 does not need to be difficult.  It could start with an email to all
> extension authors telling them of the change and giving then some
> reasonable period, say 6 weeks, to find an alternative host for their
> downloads.  We could start with a very simple extensions website that
> builds static HTML files from the metadata (in XML), with indices for
> extensions category, license, language, etc.  Keep it simple to start.
> Build the site every hour or so.  Think like the "Planet" blog
> aggregators.  But instead of aggregating RSS/Atom feeds, we're
> aggregating "feeds" that describes an extension and generating a
> website from that.  But a website like that can handle any load, since
> the user just sees static HTML and the downloads are all distributed.

This can fit into the Apache CMS model. Initially you could setup a crontab job to republish every so often in your people account. This would be a problem if you disappeared. I've seen some email on infra about a project needing to access a missing person's people account in a similar situation. Not ideal, but acceptable.

If the extension database is in xml then there is support for xslproc transforms in the Apache CMS.

> 
> I'd be willing to help with #2.  If we have 2 or 3 people interest in
> that, I think we could get it done before the leaves change color in
> New Hampshire.

I don't think it would be hard. The hard part is getting all the authors to rehost. Perhaps these could go onto apache-extras?

Regards,
Dave

> 
> -Rob
> 
> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> //drew
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>> I just have not heard that states as such.
>>>> 
>>>> //drew
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Rob Weir <ro...@robweir.com>]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 8:26 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:36 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:14 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> > On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:02 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
>> >> > While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
>> >> > I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
>> >> > especially if we don't change the dns from
>> >> > openoffice.org to apache.org.
>> >> >
>> >> > We already host modules.apache.org which provides
>> >> > a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
>> >> > implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
>> >> > served by us, we just point users at the offsite
>> >> > sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
>> >> > probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
>> >> > extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
>> >> would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
>> >> solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
>> >>
>> >> Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
>> >> code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
>> >> extensions registry.  It has the basics.
>> >
>> >
>> > Alright - If I may just ask a couple of question.
>> >
>> > There is a current site, not on ASF or Oracle hardware, that site needs
>> > work, now then:
>> >
>> > Is there some reason why the current OSUOSL site can not be used going
>> > forward?
>> >
>>
>> Permission wise?  If it is not on Apache Infrastructure, then it is
>> not an Apache server, and I don't think Apache would care much.
>>
>> The "gotcha" here is the trademark and the domain name.  Namely, our
>> website points to the extension site via an openoffice.org URL
>> (http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/) and the extension site
>> uses the OpenOffice.org trademark.
>>
>> So if we treat it like an external website, not controlled by Apache,
>> then we need to get the trademark use into conformance with Apache
>> policy.  The experts can correct me, but the following steps might be
>> appropriate:
>>
>> 1) Links from Apache-controlled websites the extensions site should
>> come with a disclaimer saying something along the lines of:
>>
>> "The Apache OpenOffice.org project does not officially endorse or
>> maintain the extensions hosted at XXX.  If there are any problems with
>> or questions about the extensions please go XXX"
>>
>> 2) The PPMC, in conjunction with Apache Branding, could review and
>> approve the use of the OpenOffice.org trademark and logo by the
>> extension website, provided it carries a prominent disclaimer along
>> the lines of the above.
>>
>> 3)  We could redirect extensions.services.openoffice.org to the OSUOSL
>> for a period of time, but they should start using and promoting a new
>> URL, perhaps even a new domain name for the extensions.
>>
>> Personally, I'd like to see us move to a distributed registry
>> approach, as was discussed earlier in the thread [1].  But that does
>> nothing to help with the immediate need for increased availability of
>> the site.
>>
>> [1] http://markmail.org/message/bmwviy2ls5qqtqev#query:+page:1+mid:bmwviy2ls5qqtqev+state:results
>>
>
> Right - sorry for being slow on the uptake, I am like that often.
>
> Here is what I think I know:
>
> Oracle will at some point like us to remove their logo from the
> OpenOffice.org sites, including extensions.s.oo.o.
>
> Jurgen, You and others are making progress on the git to svn migration.
>
> Dave is plowing along with a migration plan for, and execution of,
> moving the main site into the Apache infrastructure.
>
> Kay looks to be ready to start moving part of the stie, project pages
> IIRC, also.
>
> Terry has the wiki and forums up on staging servers, in the Apache
> infrastructure.
>
> The other srevices, pootle, bugxilla, eis2, etc I don't know about,
> havent tried to keep up. (but I did read Rapheal's page on Bugzilla).
>

I think the above would make great material for a post on the
project's blog, an update on the various parallel efforts we have in
motion.

> On the extensions/templates service - I know There are millions of
> OpenOffice.org users that link to this URL and will be for at least some
> goodly number of months into the future.
>
> It seems to me that the user facing web infrastructure is going to be
> ready for the move fairly soon now, with code and tools sections,
> likely, lagging a bit, but I would expect Oracle would like all the
> stuff moved/rebranded ASAP.
>
>
> So
> - how long do you think we can go with the current arrangement?

Only Oracle can answer that.  But that really doesn't impact the
extensions site, since it is not on Oracle servers.

> - and here I may be, being, slow again. It sound like you are saying
> that on day one, after the web sites are rebranded, then this disclaomer
> is needed at the current extensiions.s.oo.o, since it has un-savory
> items. Am I correct on that? IF so and if the disclaimer is to say that
> the site is not run by the PPMC, then by who (or is that whom)? Are you
> saying that OSUUSL would be the responsible party?
>

Responsibility to me means:

1) If the server is hacked, who cleans it up?

2) If someone uploads unauthorized code (code they do not have the
rights to) who responds to the take down notice?

3) If the underlying application stack require a critical security
update, who monitors this and applies the patches?

4) Who monitors logs for errors, optimizes the database, does the
backups and other routine maintenance?

5) Who sets the policies for what kind of extensions are allowed and
which are not allowed?

6) Who decides who has what permissions on the server, from sysadmin,
to application admin, etc.

7) Who removes spam from the user comments, and generally enforces the
terms of service?

These are the kinds of things that the PPMC, in conjunction with
Apache Infrastructure, does for websites that we control.

Do you know, is anyone doing something similar for the extensions web
site?  Is OSUUSL doing this?  Or is there a vacuum now?

This isn't a trivial task.  You might be able to get a Drupal expert
to help restore the website to working order.  But then who maintains
it and prevents it from falling apart in 6 more months?  Who has the
ongoing responsibility for the website?

Maybe someone else has a better idea, but I can think of a few
long-term solutions:

1) Find a group of people interested in taking responsibility for the
website in its current form (hosting the downloads, including OSS,
freeware, shareware, trialware, etc.)

2) Morph the existing site into something that could be hosted at
Apache.  For example, host no files, just metadata, for the
extensions.   Extension authors are responsible for hosting their
downloads someplace.

#2 does not need to be difficult.  It could start with an email to all
extension authors telling them of the change and giving then some
reasonable period, say 6 weeks, to find an alternative host for their
downloads.  We could start with a very simple extensions website that
builds static HTML files from the metadata (in XML), with indices for
extensions category, license, language, etc.  Keep it simple to start.
 Build the site every hour or so.  Think like the "Planet" blog
aggregators.  But instead of aggregating RSS/Atom feeds, we're
aggregating "feeds" that describes an extension and generating a
website from that.  But a website like that can handle any load, since
the user just sees static HTML and the downloads are all distributed.

I'd be willing to help with #2.  If we have 2 or 3 people interest in
that, I think we could get it done before the leaves change color in
New Hampshire.

-Rob


> Thanks
>
> //drew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> > I just have not heard that states as such.
>> >
>> > //drew
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:36 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:14 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:02 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
> >> > While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
> >> > I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
> >> > especially if we don't change the dns from
> >> > openoffice.org to apache.org.
> >> >
> >> > We already host modules.apache.org which provides
> >> > a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
> >> > implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
> >> > served by us, we just point users at the offsite
> >> > sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
> >> > probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
> >> > extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
> >> >
> >>
> >> We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
> >> would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
> >> solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
> >>
> >> Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
> >> code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
> >> extensions registry.  It has the basics.
> >
> >
> > Alright - If I may just ask a couple of question.
> >
> > There is a current site, not on ASF or Oracle hardware, that site needs
> > work, now then:
> >
> > Is there some reason why the current OSUOSL site can not be used going
> > forward?
> >
> 
> Permission wise?  If it is not on Apache Infrastructure, then it is
> not an Apache server, and I don't think Apache would care much.
> 
> The "gotcha" here is the trademark and the domain name.  Namely, our
> website points to the extension site via an openoffice.org URL
> (http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/) and the extension site
> uses the OpenOffice.org trademark.
> 
> So if we treat it like an external website, not controlled by Apache,
> then we need to get the trademark use into conformance with Apache
> policy.  The experts can correct me, but the following steps might be
> appropriate:
> 
> 1) Links from Apache-controlled websites the extensions site should
> come with a disclaimer saying something along the lines of:
> 
> "The Apache OpenOffice.org project does not officially endorse or
> maintain the extensions hosted at XXX.  If there are any problems with
> or questions about the extensions please go XXX"
> 
> 2) The PPMC, in conjunction with Apache Branding, could review and
> approve the use of the OpenOffice.org trademark and logo by the
> extension website, provided it carries a prominent disclaimer along
> the lines of the above.
> 
> 3)  We could redirect extensions.services.openoffice.org to the OSUOSL
> for a period of time, but they should start using and promoting a new
> URL, perhaps even a new domain name for the extensions.
> 
> Personally, I'd like to see us move to a distributed registry
> approach, as was discussed earlier in the thread [1].  But that does
> nothing to help with the immediate need for increased availability of
> the site.
> 
> [1] http://markmail.org/message/bmwviy2ls5qqtqev#query:+page:1+mid:bmwviy2ls5qqtqev+state:results
> 

Right - sorry for being slow on the uptake, I am like that often.

Here is what I think I know:

Oracle will at some point like us to remove their logo from the
OpenOffice.org sites, including extensions.s.oo.o.

Jurgen, You and others are making progress on the git to svn migration.

Dave is plowing along with a migration plan for, and execution of,
moving the main site into the Apache infrastructure.

Kay looks to be ready to start moving part of the stie, project pages
IIRC, also.

Terry has the wiki and forums up on staging servers, in the Apache
infrastructure.

The other srevices, pootle, bugxilla, eis2, etc I don't know about,
havent tried to keep up. (but I did read Rapheal's page on Bugzilla).

On the extensions/templates service - I know There are millions of
OpenOffice.org users that link to this URL and will be for at least some
goodly number of months into the future.

It seems to me that the user facing web infrastructure is going to be
ready for the move fairly soon now, with code and tools sections,
likely, lagging a bit, but I would expect Oracle would like all the
stuff moved/rebranded ASAP.


So 
- how long do you think we can go with the current arrangement?
- and here I may be, being, slow again. It sound like you are saying
that on day one, after the web sites are rebranded, then this disclaomer
is needed at the current extensiions.s.oo.o, since it has un-savory
items. Am I correct on that? IF so and if the disclaimer is to say that
the site is not run by the PPMC, then by who (or is that whom)? Are you
saying that OSUUSL would be the responsible party?

Thanks

//drew






> 
> > I just have not heard that states as such.
> >
> > //drew
> >
> >
> 

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 4:14 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:02 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
>> > While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
>> > I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
>> > especially if we don't change the dns from
>> > openoffice.org to apache.org.
>> >
>> > We already host modules.apache.org which provides
>> > a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
>> > implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
>> > served by us, we just point users at the offsite
>> > sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
>> > probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
>> > extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
>> >
>>
>> We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
>> would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
>> solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
>>
>> Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
>> code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
>> extensions registry.  It has the basics.
>
>
> Alright - If I may just ask a couple of question.
>
> There is a current site, not on ASF or Oracle hardware, that site needs
> work, now then:
>
> Is there some reason why the current OSUOSL site can not be used going
> forward?
>

Permission wise?  If it is not on Apache Infrastructure, then it is
not an Apache server, and I don't think Apache would care much.

The "gotcha" here is the trademark and the domain name.  Namely, our
website points to the extension site via an openoffice.org URL
(http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/) and the extension site
uses the OpenOffice.org trademark.

So if we treat it like an external website, not controlled by Apache,
then we need to get the trademark use into conformance with Apache
policy.  The experts can correct me, but the following steps might be
appropriate:

1) Links from Apache-controlled websites the extensions site should
come with a disclaimer saying something along the lines of:

"The Apache OpenOffice.org project does not officially endorse or
maintain the extensions hosted at XXX.  If there are any problems with
or questions about the extensions please go XXX"

2) The PPMC, in conjunction with Apache Branding, could review and
approve the use of the OpenOffice.org trademark and logo by the
extension website, provided it carries a prominent disclaimer along
the lines of the above.

3)  We could redirect extensions.services.openoffice.org to the OSUOSL
for a period of time, but they should start using and promoting a new
URL, perhaps even a new domain name for the extensions.

Personally, I'd like to see us move to a distributed registry
approach, as was discussed earlier in the thread [1].  But that does
nothing to help with the immediate need for increased availability of
the site.

[1] http://markmail.org/message/bmwviy2ls5qqtqev#query:+page:1+mid:bmwviy2ls5qqtqev+state:results


> I just have not heard that states as such.
>
> //drew
>
>

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Tue, 2011-08-16 at 16:02 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
> > While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
> > I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
> > especially if we don't change the dns from
> > openoffice.org to apache.org.
> >
> > We already host modules.apache.org which provides
> > a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
> > implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
> > served by us, we just point users at the offsite
> > sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
> > probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
> > extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
> >
> 
> We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
> would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
> solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
> 
> Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
> code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
> extensions registry.  It has the basics.


Alright - If I may just ask a couple of question.

There is a current site, not on ASF or Oracle hardware, that site needs
work, now then:

Is there some reason why the current OSUOSL site can not be used going
forward? 

I just have not heard that states as such.

//drew

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>]

It's custom php code located somewhere in the infra
repo.  If you ask on infrastructure@ someone can provide
you specifics and access if you'd like.



>________________________________
>From: Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 4:02 PM
>Subject: Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))
>
>On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
>> While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
>> I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
>> especially if we don't change the dns from
>> openoffice.org to apache.org.
>>
>> We already host modules.apache.org which provides
>> a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
>> implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
>> served by us, we just point users at the offsite
>> sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
>> probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
>> extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
>>
>
>We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
>would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
>solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.
>
>Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
>code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
>extensions registry.  It has the basics.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>>From: Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>
>>>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 2:45 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))
>>>
>>>On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:58 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>> > On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>> > >> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>>>> > > <big snip>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>>>>> > >>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>>>>> > >>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>>>>> > >>> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>>>>> > >>> should be back online now.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>>>>> > >>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>>>>> > >>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>>>>> > >>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>>>>> > >>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>>>>> > >>> because they just go off all the time.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>>>>> > >>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>>>>> > >>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>>>>> > >>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>>>>> > >>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>>>>> > >>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>>>>> > >>> resources.
>>>>> > >>>
>>>>> > >>> Thanks-
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > >> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
>>>>> > >>
>>>>> > > Howdy Dave
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
>>>>> > > posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
>>>>> > > someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
>>>>> > > the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)
>>>>
>>>> Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
>>>> page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
>>>> templates and 'connection reset'
>>>>
>>>> No hands up here yet that I've seen.
>>>>
>>>> People do want to have this site up, yes?
>>>>
>>>> So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.
>>>>
>>>> I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
>>>> the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
>>>> VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)
>>>>
>>>
>>>What are you trying to accomplish?
>>>
>>>I thought the fact that the extensions site was hosting software
>>>downloads that were not all under the Apache 2.0 license, and in some
>>>cases were not even OSS, made it impossible for us to be hosting the
>>>site on Apache servers.
>>>
>>>
>>>> _while_
>>>>
>>>> Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.
>>>>
>>>> OK
>>>>
>>>> //drew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> //drew
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
> While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
> I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
> especially if we don't change the dns from
> openoffice.org to apache.org.
>
> We already host modules.apache.org which provides
> a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
> implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
> served by us, we just point users at the offsite
> sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
> probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
> extensions site as well before bringing it in house.
>

We had talked on another thread about a longer-term approach where we
would host a registry of externally-hosted extensions.  That kind of
solutions has a lot of attractive qualities.

Do you know anything about the http modules registry, e.g., where the
code is?  That might be something we could use to jump-start an
extensions registry.  It has the basics.

>
>
>
>>________________________________
>>From: Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>
>>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 2:45 PM
>>Subject: Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))
>>
>>On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:58 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>> > On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>> > >> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>>> > > <big snip>
>>>> > >
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>>>> > >>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>>>> > >>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>>>> > >>> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>>>> > >>> should be back online now.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>>>> > >>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>>>> > >>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>>>> > >>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>>>> > >>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>>>> > >>> because they just go off all the time.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>>>> > >>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>>>> > >>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>>>> > >>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>>>> > >>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>>>> > >>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>>>> > >>> resources.
>>>> > >>>
>>>> > >>> Thanks-
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
>>>> > >>
>>>> > > Howdy Dave
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
>>>> > > posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
>>>> > > someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
>>>> > > the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
>>>> >
>>>> > Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
>>>>
>>>> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)
>>>
>>> Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
>>> page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
>>> templates and 'connection reset'
>>>
>>> No hands up here yet that I've seen.
>>>
>>> People do want to have this site up, yes?
>>>
>>> So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.
>>>
>>> I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
>>> the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
>>> VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)
>>>
>>
>>What are you trying to accomplish?
>>
>>I thought the fact that the extensions site was hosting software
>>downloads that were not all under the Apache 2.0 license, and in some
>>cases were not even OSS, made it impossible for us to be hosting the
>>site on Apache servers.
>>
>>
>>> _while_
>>>
>>> Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.
>>>
>>> OK
>>>
>>> //drew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> //drew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Joe Schaefer <jo...@yahoo.com>]

It just needs to be cleared by legal/board.
While hosting non-OSS plugins is probably out,
I don't see why we can't host OSS ones here
especially if we don't change the dns from
openoffice.org to apache.org.

We already host modules.apache.org which provides
a similar service for httpd modules.  One essential
implementation difference is that the downloads aren't
served by us, we just point users at the offsite
sources and only host metadata.  Technically that's
probably what I'd like to see happen to the ooo
extensions site as well before bringing it in house.




>________________________________
>From: Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>
>To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
>Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 2:45 PM
>Subject: Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))
>
>On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:58 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>> > On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>> > >> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>> > > <big snip>
>>> > >
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>>> > >>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>>> > >>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>>> > >>> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>>> > >>> should be back online now.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>>> > >>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>>> > >>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>>> > >>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>>> > >>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>>> > >>> because they just go off all the time.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>>> > >>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>>> > >>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>>> > >>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>>> > >>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>>> > >>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>>> > >>> resources.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Thanks-
>>> > >>
>>> > >> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
>>> > >>
>>> > > Howdy Dave
>>> > >
>>> > > Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
>>> > > posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
>>> > > someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
>>> > > the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
>>> >
>>> > Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
>>>
>>> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)
>>
>> Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
>> page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
>> templates and 'connection reset'
>>
>> No hands up here yet that I've seen.
>>
>> People do want to have this site up, yes?
>>
>> So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.
>>
>> I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
>> the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
>> VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)
>>
>
>What are you trying to accomplish?
>
>I thought the fact that the extensions site was hosting software
>downloads that were not all under the Apache 2.0 license, and in some
>cases were not even OSS, made it impossible for us to be hosting the
>site on Apache servers.
>
>
>> _while_
>>
>> Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.
>>
>> OK
>>
>> //drew
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> //drew
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On Aug 16, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:58 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>>>>> <big snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>>>>>>>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>>>>>>>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>>>>>>>> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>>>>>>>> should be back online now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>>>>>>>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>>>>>>>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>>>>>>>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>>>>>>>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>>>>>>>> because they just go off all the time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>>>>>>>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>>>>>>>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>>>>>>>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>>>>>>>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>>>>>>>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>>>>>>>> resources.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks-
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Howdy Dave
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
>>>>>> posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
>>>>>> someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
>>>>>> the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
>>>>
>>>> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)
>>>
>>> Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
>>> page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
>>> templates and 'connection reset'
>>>
>>> No hands up here yet that I've seen.
>>>
>>> People do want to have this site up, yes?
>>>
>>> So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.
>>>
>>> I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
>>> the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
>>> VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)
>>>
>>
>> What are you trying to accomplish?
>>
>> I thought the fact that the extensions site was hosting software
>> downloads that were not all under the Apache 2.0 license, and in some
>> cases were not even OSS, made it impossible for us to be hosting the
>> site on Apache servers.
>
> I think that Drew should investigate what is up at OSUOSL.
>
> There had been Oracle people working on it. The sysadmin there knows something of what went on.
>
> They get so many warnings due to the load that they have turned off their Nagios checks.
>
> Perhaps - there is a need for more machine at OSUOSL and that is all...
>
> Maybe that would be a good use for some of the non-Apache fundraising. Could this be the spot for co-operation with other projects?
>

+1

What do our LibreOffice lurkers think?

> Regards,
> Dave
>
>
>>
>>
>>> _while_
>>>
>>> Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.
>>>
>>> OK
>>>
>>> //drew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> //drew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 16, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Rob Weir wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:58 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>>>> <big snip>
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>>>>>>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>>>>>>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>>>>>>> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>>>>>>> should be back online now.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>>>>>>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>>>>>>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>>>>>>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>>>>>>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>>>>>>> because they just go off all the time.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>>>>>>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>>>>>>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>>>>>>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>>>>>>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>>>>>>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>>>>>>> resources.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks-
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
>>>>>> 
>>>>> Howdy Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
>>>>> posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
>>>>> someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
>>>>> the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
>>>> 
>>>> Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
>>> 
>>> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)
>> 
>> Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
>> page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
>> templates and 'connection reset'
>> 
>> No hands up here yet that I've seen.
>> 
>> People do want to have this site up, yes?
>> 
>> So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.
>> 
>> I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
>> the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
>> VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)
>> 
> 
> What are you trying to accomplish?
> 
> I thought the fact that the extensions site was hosting software
> downloads that were not all under the Apache 2.0 license, and in some
> cases were not even OSS, made it impossible for us to be hosting the
> site on Apache servers.

I think that Drew should investigate what is up at OSUOSL.

There had been Oracle people working on it. The sysadmin there knows something of what went on.

They get so many warnings due to the load that they have turned off their Nagios checks.

Perhaps - there is a need for more machine at OSUOSL and that is all...

Maybe that would be a good use for some of the non-Apache fundraising. Could this be the spot for co-operation with other projects?

Regards,
Dave


> 
> 
>> _while_
>> 
>> Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.
>> 
>> OK
>> 
>> //drew
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> //drew
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 1:58 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> > On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> > >> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> > > <big snip>
>> > >
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>> > >>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>> > >>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>> > >>> volunteer help to get that done, asap.
>> > >>
>> > >> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
>> > >>
>> > >>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>> > >>> should be back online now.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>> > >>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>> > >>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>> > >>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>> > >>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>> > >>> because they just go off all the time.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>> > >>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>> > >>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>> > >>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>> > >>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>> > >>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>> > >>> resources.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Thanks-
>> > >>
>> > >> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
>> > >>
>> > > Howdy Dave
>> > >
>> > > Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
>> > > posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
>> > > someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
>> > > the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
>> >
>> > Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
>>
>> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)
>
> Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
> page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
> templates and 'connection reset'
>
> No hands up here yet that I've seen.
>
> People do want to have this site up, yes?
>
> So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.
>
> I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
> the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
> VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)
>

What are you trying to accomplish?

I thought the fact that the extensions site was hosting software
downloads that were not all under the Apache 2.0 license, and in some
cases were not even OSS, made it impossible for us to be hosting the
site on Apache servers.


> _while_
>
> Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.
>
> OK
>
> //drew
>
>
>
>>
>> //drew
>>
>>
>
>
>

Re: [www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 14:49 -0400, drew wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> > On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
> > 
> > > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> > >> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
> > >> 
> > >>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> > >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > > <big snip>
> > > 
> > >>> 
> > >>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
> > >>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
> > >>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
> > >>> volunteer help to get that done, asap. 
> > >> 
> > >> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
> > >> 
> > >>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
> > >>> should be back online now.
> > >>> 
> > >>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
> > >>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
> > >>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
> > >>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
> > >>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
> > >>> because they just go off all the time.
> > >>> 
> > >>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
> > >>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
> > >>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
> > >>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
> > >>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
> > >>> 
> > >>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
> > >>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
> > >>> resources.
> > >>> 
> > >>> Thanks-
> > >> 
> > >> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
> > >> 
> > > Howdy Dave
> > > 
> > > Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
> > > posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
> > > someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
> > > the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
> > 
> > Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.
> 
> I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)

Alright - well just tried to hit the extension site (from the OO.o front
page) 6 times, 5 'connection reset', 1 time success - then clicked on
templates and 'connection reset'

No hands up here yet that I've seen.

People do want to have this site up, yes?

So - I said I'd not be much help, that isn't the same as no help.

I assume all the drupal setup is under version control, or is it just
the custom changes (with any schema changes) - either way I can setup a
VM here and see about tackling an update from 5 to 6 (not 7???)

_while_

Sending an email to the apache infra ml looking for additional help.

OK

//drew



> 
> //drew
> 
> 

[www] Any Drupal guru's lurking? ( was : Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down ))

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:42 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> >> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
> >> 
> >>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > <big snip>
> > 
> >>> 
> >>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
> >>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
> >>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
> >>> volunteer help to get that done, asap. 
> >> 
> >> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
> >> 
> >>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
> >>> should be back online now.
> >>> 
> >>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
> >>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
> >>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
> >>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
> >>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
> >>> because they just go off all the time.
> >>> 
> >>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
> >>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
> >>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
> >>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
> >>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
> >>> 
> >>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
> >>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
> >>> resources.
> >>> 
> >>> Thanks-
> >> 
> >> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
> >> 
> > Howdy Dave
> > 
> > Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
> > posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
> > someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
> > the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.
> 
> Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.

I'll send this one then - and if needed the other after a day or so..;-)

//drew

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:39 AM, drew wrote:

> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
>> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> <big snip>
> 
>>> 
>>> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
>>> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
>>> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
>>> volunteer help to get that done, asap. 
>> 
>> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
>> 
>>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>>> should be back online now.
>>> 
>>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>>> because they just go off all the time.
>>> 
>>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>> 
>>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>>> resources.
>>> 
>>> Thanks-
>> 
>> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
>> 
> Howdy Dave
> 
> Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
> posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
> someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
> the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.

Ideally someone here on the ML would be a Drupal guru.

Regards,
Dave

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 11:18 -0700, Dave Fisher wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
<big snip>

> > 
> > Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
> > current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
> > site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
> > volunteer help to get that done, asap. 
> 
> Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:
> 
> > Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
> > should be back online now.
> > 
> > The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
> > because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
> > issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
> > machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
> > they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
> > because they just go off all the time.
> > 
> > What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
> > re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
> > the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
> > Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
> > module but I'm not sure where that left off.
> > 
> > Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
> > fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
> > resources.
> > 
> > Thanks-
> 
> The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.
> 
Howdy Dave

Well I'll not be much technical help with Drupal, however I can start by
posting an email to the Apache infra ML and see if maybe there is
someone skilled in the art willing to work with our current admin and
the osu admin. I'll do that in a little bit here, if no one minds.

//drew

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

On Aug 14, 2011, at 11:06 AM, drew wrote:

> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>>> [from out of left field]
>>> Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
>>> hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
>>> specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
>>> indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
>>> un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
>>> move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.
>>> 
>> 
>> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
>> server.  
> 
> Hi Rob,
> 
> Well, I'm not at all sure I agree with that, what exactly happened then
> when the Sun brand came off the site and the Oracle brand went up, that
> was window dressing with regards to the site name - Oracle could not of
> moved the site to xxx.oracleoffice.org even if they also maintained a
> live redirect of the old address? 
> 
>> It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
>> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
>> 
>> But if a 3rd party steps forward and is willing to navigate the
>> licenses and figure out way to host them all, then I'd wish them the
>> best of luck.
>> 
>> The main technical things we need to coordinate are:
>> 
>> 1) How are submissions made to the catalog
>> 
>> 2) How is the catalog queried?
>> 
>> 3) How are extension updates propagated?
>> 
>> 4) Do we want a single catalog, in the style of Firefox plugins, or
>> allow multiple catalogs, perhaps filtered by support category or
>> license, like Ubuntu?
>> 
>> 5) What do we need to do to ensure a clean programmatic interface to
>> the catalog (a RESTful service) as well as a good end-user UI?
>> 
>> 6) Is there a way we can manage, with sufficient user data protection
>> provisions, some sort of recommendation engine, where extensions are
>> recommended either based on user actions, or based on ratings and
>> similarities to other users (collaborative filtering)?
>> 
>> 7) Is there anything we can do to allow the user to interact with
>> extensions (browse, sort, filter, download, rate, update, etc.)
>> entirely within OOo editors?
>> 
>> So in general, I think this is an opportunity to do more than just
>> re-host the existing extensions site.  It is an opportunity to rethink
>> how users and extensions authors could interact.
> 
> I agree with much of that 
> - I guess I would opt here to pull us back from either my
> out-of-left-field idea, or the perfect solution for the moment.
> 
> Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
> current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
> site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
> volunteer help to get that done, asap. 

Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:

> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
> should be back online now.
> 
> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
> because they just go off all the time.
> 
> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
> 
> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
> resources.
> 
> Thanks-

The offer is there. I'll give anyone the admin's email and off the list if you want to contact him.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> While not to lose focus on working those longer term ideas.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> //drew
> 

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 13:37 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > [from out of left field]
> > Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
> > hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
> > specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
> > indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
> > un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
> > move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.
> >
> 
> I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
> server.  

Hi Rob,

Well, I'm not at all sure I agree with that, what exactly happened then
when the Sun brand came off the site and the Oracle brand went up, that
was window dressing with regards to the site name - Oracle could not of
moved the site to xxx.oracleoffice.org even if they also maintained a
live redirect of the old address? 

> It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
> is not ours to give to a 3rd party.
> 
> But if a 3rd party steps forward and is willing to navigate the
> licenses and figure out way to host them all, then I'd wish them the
> best of luck.
> 
> The main technical things we need to coordinate are:
> 
> 1) How are submissions made to the catalog
> 
> 2) How is the catalog queried?
> 
> 3) How are extension updates propagated?
> 
> 4) Do we want a single catalog, in the style of Firefox plugins, or
> allow multiple catalogs, perhaps filtered by support category or
> license, like Ubuntu?
> 
> 5) What do we need to do to ensure a clean programmatic interface to
> the catalog (a RESTful service) as well as a good end-user UI?
> 
> 6) Is there a way we can manage, with sufficient user data protection
> provisions, some sort of recommendation engine, where extensions are
> recommended either based on user actions, or based on ratings and
> similarities to other users (collaborative filtering)?
> 
> 7) Is there anything we can do to allow the user to interact with
> extensions (browse, sort, filter, download, rate, update, etc.)
> entirely within OOo editors?
> 
> So in general, I think this is an opportunity to do more than just
> re-host the existing extensions site.  It is an opportunity to rethink
> how users and extensions authors could interact.

I agree with much of that 
- I guess I would opt here to pull us back from either my
out-of-left-field idea, or the perfect solution for the moment.

Just hit the templates site and it's back, I would rather we ask the
current admin about what, if any, maintenance is needing done on the
site, and then we should offer, if it would help, to try and find some
volunteer help to get that done, asap. 

While not to lose focus on working those longer term ideas.

Best wishes,

//drew

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> [from out of left field]
> Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
> hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
> specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
> indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
> un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
> move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.
>

I don't see how we can claim ownership of the content on the OSUOSL
server.  It was not part of the Oracle SGA, as far as I know.  So it
is not ours to give to a 3rd party.

But if a 3rd party steps forward and is willing to navigate the
licenses and figure out way to host them all, then I'd wish them the
best of luck.

The main technical things we need to coordinate are:

1) How are submissions made to the catalog

2) How is the catalog queried?

3) How are extension updates propagated?

4) Do we want a single catalog, in the style of Firefox plugins, or
allow multiple catalogs, perhaps filtered by support category or
license, like Ubuntu?

5) What do we need to do to ensure a clean programmatic interface to
the catalog (a RESTful service) as well as a good end-user UI?

6) Is there a way we can manage, with sufficient user data protection
provisions, some sort of recommendation engine, where extensions are
recommended either based on user actions, or based on ratings and
similarities to other users (collaborative filtering)?

7) Is there anything we can do to allow the user to interact with
extensions (browse, sort, filter, download, rate, update, etc.)
entirely within OOo editors?

So in general, I think this is an opportunity to do more than just
re-host the existing extensions site.  It is an opportunity to rethink
how users and extensions authors could interact.

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 12:35 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:15 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 17:11 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:
> >> Hi Rob,
> >>
> >> On Sunday, 2011-08-14 10:17:28 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> >>
> >> > IIRC, these extensions are 3rd party, under a variety of licenses,
> >> > including some that are not open source.  Is that correct?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >
> > I for one agree with this expansive policy,

<snip>

> >> >
> >> > What do you think of a distributed approach like this?
> >
> > I have two quantitative questions which I would strongly wish to have
> > answered, if possible, before offering my opinion on long(ish) hosting
> > options.
> >
> > 1 - The percentage of inbound visitors coming from the application vs
> > from search engines.
> >
> > 2 - The percentage of artifacts that are stored directly on the OSUOSL
> > server vs a link to a remote site. I am working on the assumption that
> > this is a very high ratio, where a goodly number of these local files
> > are _likely_ stored only on this server. (not sure there would be anyway
> > to actually answer the last part of that sentence for sure..)
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Fine. Isn't much different from the current situation. Best if technical
> >> details could be worked out such that no code apart from the actual
> >> repository/directory URL needed to be changed.
> >

<snip>

> >
> 
> If there are "standard extensions", where we store the source in SVN,
> treat it as part of the project and release via the normal procedures,
> then I can certainly see hosting the extension on Apache servers.  But
> I don't see that happening for 3rd party extensions.
> 
> I don't think the basic situation changes based on domain names
> openoffice.org versus openoffice.apache.org.  

Yes - Nóirín's comments make that clear also, should of stayed with my
first choice. 

> If it is on Apache
> servers, controlled by the Apache project, using the Apache
> trademarks, then it is hard to say that code distribution can be done
> without following Apache rules for releases and licensing.
> 
> Aside from the licensing concern, I'd also be concerned with the
> impact of hosting commercial (non-open source) extensions on our
> status as a non-profit.
> 
> I think we have a two workable solutions:
> 
> 1) Host all of the extensions externally.  This could include
> Apache-extra.org.  We could link to such an external repository from
> our website, with a suitable disclaimer stating that this is a
> non-Apache site.
> 
> 2) Host only the description and metadata, essentially a catalog or
> directory, and require that all non-Apache owned (not in our SVN)
> extensions be hosted externally.  This could include external hosting
> at Apache-extras,org, SourceForge, Google, or whatever else the author
> prefers.
> 
> 
> Either option would obviously require some coordination and
> communications with the extension authors.  I prefer option #2.

[from out of left field]
Would members consider transferring ownership of the current repository
hosted on the OSUOSL server to a third party, perhaps created
specifically to take this over, and then working with them to create the
indirect reference site under the AOO project, filtering out
un-acceptably licensed items as a way to achieving option #2. This would
move the entire repository without needing to locate individual authors.

> 
> Another thing to consider is this:  If there is some load related
> issues here, then we should consider taking a close look at the top 5
> or so extensions and see if we can get them, or equivalent features
> into the core AOOo release.  So better than dealing with load, we can
> prevent the requests altogether by giving users what they want in the
> core release.

It's something to think on, again it depends a lot of that usage
information, IMO.

//drew

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 12:15 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 17:11 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> On Sunday, 2011-08-14 10:17:28 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>>
>> > IIRC, these extensions are 3rd party, under a variety of licenses,
>> > including some that are not open source.  Is that correct?
>>
>> Yes.
>
> I for one agree with this expansive policy, but understand that personal
> views of the members here are strong and across the spectrum. Indeed the
> policy adopted for the TDF repository is a compromise to address the
> question.
>
>>
>> > Another option, which I brought up the last time this topic was
>> > discussed on the list, is that we maintain a catalog of extensions,
>> > but don't maintain the storage of the extensions themselves.  So a
>> > distributed approach where we own the directory.
>>
>> Currently OOo has the functionality to query whether an upgrade of the
>> extension is available and to download and update if so. The directory
>> then should implement that. Note that it is not necessary to have the
>> directory provide the extension itself, this is already the case with
>> the current extension repository that allows to host the extension at
>> a different place. IIRC some metadata and an URL is sufficient,
>> hopefully someone familiar with the mechanism can jump in on that. Maybe
>> Juergen?
>>
>> > >From the end-user perspective, they should not notice a big
>> > difference.  They browse a list of extensions, click 'download' and
>> > they get the extension.  But the extension would be served by an
>> > external site, the responsibility of the extension author.
>> >
>> > For this to work we'd need some way for extension authors to submit
>> > their extension descriptions and metadata.  Maybe a simple XML format,
>> > or a web form that generates that XML.  Then you need a program to gen
>> > the website from the XML.  Xalan XSLT could be used for this, for
>> > example.
>> >
>> > What do you think of a distributed approach like this?
>
> I have two quantitative questions which I would strongly wish to have
> answered, if possible, before offering my opinion on long(ish) hosting
> options.
>
> 1 - The percentage of inbound visitors coming from the application vs
> from search engines.
>
> 2 - The percentage of artifacts that are stored directly on the OSUOSL
> server vs a link to a remote site. I am working on the assumption that
> this is a very high ratio, where a goodly number of these local files
> are _likely_ stored only on this server. (not sure there would be anyway
> to actually answer the last part of that sentence for sure..)
>
>
>>
>> Fine. Isn't much different from the current situation. Best if technical
>> details could be worked out such that no code apart from the actual
>> repository/directory URL needed to be changed.
>
> One other thought - I want to restate what I said earlier, regarding
> what we can (could) do on a server inside the ASF physical custody vs
> 3rd party maintained servers - I believe I should of based the
> distinction not on the location of the server, but rather the URL
> (domain), so that it is significant the difference between
> [x].openoffice.org and openoffice.apache.org/[x].
>

If there are "standard extensions", where we store the source in SVN,
treat it as part of the project and release via the normal procedures,
then I can certainly see hosting the extension on Apache servers.  But
I don't see that happening for 3rd party extensions.

I don't think the basic situation changes based on domain names
openoffice.org versus openoffice.apache.org.  If it is on Apache
servers, controlled by the Apache project, using the Apache
trademarks, then it is hard to say that code distribution can be done
without following Apache rules for releases and licensing.

Aside from the licensing concern, I'd also be concerned with the
impact of hosting commercial (non-open source) extensions on our
status as a non-profit.

I think we have a two workable solutions:

1) Host all of the extensions externally.  This could include
Apache-extra.org.  We could link to such an external repository from
our website, with a suitable disclaimer stating that this is a
non-Apache site.

2) Host only the description and metadata, essentially a catalog or
directory, and require that all non-Apache owned (not in our SVN)
extensions be hosted externally.  This could include external hosting
at Apache-extras,org, SourceForge, Google, or whatever else the author
prefers.


Either option would obviously require some coordination and
communications with the extension authors.  I prefer option #2.

Another thing to consider is this:  If there is some load related
issues here, then we should consider taking a close look at the top 5
or so extensions and see if we can get them, or equivalent features
into the core AOOo release.  So better than dealing with load, we can
prevent the requests altogether by giving users what they want in the
core release.


> Thanks
>
> //drew
>
>>
>>   Eike
>>
>
>
>

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 17:11 +0200, Eike Rathke wrote:
> Hi Rob,
> 
> On Sunday, 2011-08-14 10:17:28 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> 
> > IIRC, these extensions are 3rd party, under a variety of licenses,
> > including some that are not open source.  Is that correct?
> 
> Yes.

I for one agree with this expansive policy, but understand that personal
views of the members here are strong and across the spectrum. Indeed the
policy adopted for the TDF repository is a compromise to address the
question.

> 
> > Another option, which I brought up the last time this topic was
> > discussed on the list, is that we maintain a catalog of extensions,
> > but don't maintain the storage of the extensions themselves.  So a
> > distributed approach where we own the directory.
> 
> Currently OOo has the functionality to query whether an upgrade of the
> extension is available and to download and update if so. The directory
> then should implement that. Note that it is not necessary to have the
> directory provide the extension itself, this is already the case with
> the current extension repository that allows to host the extension at
> a different place. IIRC some metadata and an URL is sufficient,
> hopefully someone familiar with the mechanism can jump in on that. Maybe
> Juergen?
> 
> > >From the end-user perspective, they should not notice a big
> > difference.  They browse a list of extensions, click 'download' and
> > they get the extension.  But the extension would be served by an
> > external site, the responsibility of the extension author.
> > 
> > For this to work we'd need some way for extension authors to submit
> > their extension descriptions and metadata.  Maybe a simple XML format,
> > or a web form that generates that XML.  Then you need a program to gen
> > the website from the XML.  Xalan XSLT could be used for this, for
> > example.
> > 
> > What do you think of a distributed approach like this?

I have two quantitative questions which I would strongly wish to have
answered, if possible, before offering my opinion on long(ish) hosting
options.

1 - The percentage of inbound visitors coming from the application vs
from search engines.

2 - The percentage of artifacts that are stored directly on the OSUOSL
server vs a link to a remote site. I am working on the assumption that
this is a very high ratio, where a goodly number of these local files
are _likely_ stored only on this server. (not sure there would be anyway
to actually answer the last part of that sentence for sure..)


> 
> Fine. Isn't much different from the current situation. Best if technical
> details could be worked out such that no code apart from the actual
> repository/directory URL needed to be changed.

One other thought - I want to restate what I said earlier, regarding
what we can (could) do on a server inside the ASF physical custody vs
3rd party maintained servers - I believe I should of based the
distinction not on the location of the server, but rather the URL
(domain), so that it is significant the difference between
[x].openoffice.org and openoffice.apache.org/[x].

Thanks

//drew

> 
>   Eike
> 

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Eike Rathke <oo...@erack.de>]

Hi Rob,

On Sunday, 2011-08-14 10:17:28 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:

> IIRC, these extensions are 3rd party, under a variety of licenses,
> including some that are not open source.  Is that correct?

Yes.

> Another option, which I brought up the last time this topic was
> discussed on the list, is that we maintain a catalog of extensions,
> but don't maintain the storage of the extensions themselves.  So a
> distributed approach where we own the directory.

Currently OOo has the functionality to query whether an upgrade of the
extension is available and to download and update if so. The directory
then should implement that. Note that it is not necessary to have the
directory provide the extension itself, this is already the case with
the current extension repository that allows to host the extension at
a different place. IIRC some metadata and an URL is sufficient,
hopefully someone familiar with the mechanism can jump in on that. Maybe
Juergen?

> >From the end-user perspective, they should not notice a big
> difference.  They browse a list of extensions, click 'download' and
> they get the extension.  But the extension would be served by an
> external site, the responsibility of the extension author.
> 
> For this to work we'd need some way for extension authors to submit
> their extension descriptions and metadata.  Maybe a simple XML format,
> or a web form that generates that XML.  Then you need a program to gen
> the website from the XML.  Xalan XSLT could be used for this, for
> example.
> 
> What do you think of a distributed approach like this?

Fine. Isn't much different from the current situation. Best if technical
details could be worked out such that no code apart from the actual
repository/directory URL needed to be changed.

  Eike

-- 
 PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication.
 Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3  9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM, Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 12, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Another option that comes to mind:
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
> >>>> that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
> >>>> we'll want to be more explicit about such links to 3rd party sites
> >>>> going forward, stating that this is not Apache code, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, if most of the extensions are applicable to LibreOffice and
> >>>> other derived products, as well as OpenOffice, then this might be an
> >>>> opportunity for collaboration with The Document Foundation on a common
> >>>> extension repository.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
> >>> Foundation Steering Committee, and Jomar Silva raised it on the
> >> TDF-Discuss
> >>> list. TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
> >>> templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect
> >> the
> >>> URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it
> uses
> >>> the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.
> >>
> >> Is the intent to host all of the extensions currently at the OOo site?
> >> Or a subset?  Or a different set?
> >>
> >
> > They host only extensions that have open source licenses, so the ones at
> the
> > OOo site that have proprietary licenses are not hosted.
>
> I'd like to have a central catalog of all extensions, commercial as
> well as open source.  Not necessarily hosting them, but having the
> basic metadata with links to whatever site hosts them. If we have
> something like this then we can escape the need for having a singe
> host site that gates user visibility of extensions based on eclectic
> things like license considerations.   You could even have multiple
> such catalogs. Maybe some which curate only GPL extensions for
> example.
>
> To do something like the above would require agreeing on a metadata
> description file for extension authors.
>

Sounds like a job for the ODF Plugfest (or at least a subset of its
attendees).

Meanwhile, the offer stands as a practical and pragmatic solution to keep
end users running during the transition.

S.

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Jürgen Schmidt <jo...@googlemail.com>]

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:39 AM, Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 12, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Another option that comes to mind:
> >>>>
> >>>> 3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
> >>>> that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
> >>>> we'll want to be more explicit about such links to 3rd party sites
> >>>> going forward, stating that this is not Apache code, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> Also, if most of the extensions are applicable to LibreOffice and
> >>>> other derived products, as well as OpenOffice, then this might be an
> >>>> opportunity for collaboration with The Document Foundation on a common
> >>>> extension repository.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
> >>> Foundation Steering Committee, and Jomar Silva raised it on the
> >> TDF-Discuss
> >>> list. TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
> >>> templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect
> >> the
> >>> URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it
> uses
> >>> the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.
> >>
> >> Is the intent to host all of the extensions currently at the OOo site?
> >> Or a subset?  Or a different set?
> >>
> >
> > They host only extensions that have open source licenses, so the ones at
> the
> > OOo site that have proprietary licenses are not hosted.
>
> I'd like to have a central catalog of all extensions, commercial as
> well as open source.  Not necessarily hosting them, but having the
> basic metadata with links to whatever site hosts them. If we have
> something like this then we can escape the need for having a singe
> host site that gates user visibility of extensions based on eclectic
> things like license considerations.   You could even have multiple
> such catalogs. Maybe some which curate only GPL extensions for
> example.
>
> To do something like the above would require agreeing on a metadata
> description file for extension authors.
>

i think most of this is already available. We need to extend the code to
handle multiple repositories in the extension manager as known from for
example NetBeans. You can of course already define your own update URL for
your own extension and everything works out of the box to get the update
information via this URL. The current repository provides automatically an
update URL for extensions hosted in the repo. The whole mechanism is already
very flexible.

To add my personal opinion, i would still prefer a repo for all kind of
extensions. What we need is a working eco system around the office suite and
i think commercial extensions can be an important part  of such an eco
system. Specialized extensions for only a subset of (business) users for
example. It would allow ISV's to build their own business around the office
suite ...

Juergen


> I think this is complementary to TDF's interest in hosting open source
> extensions.
>
> > S.
>

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com>]

On Jul 12, 2011, at 5:43 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Another option that comes to mind:
>>>>
>>>> 3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
>>>> that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
>>>> we'll want to be more explicit about such links to 3rd party sites
>>>> going forward, stating that this is not Apache code, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Also, if most of the extensions are applicable to LibreOffice and
>>>> other derived products, as well as OpenOffice, then this might be an
>>>> opportunity for collaboration with The Document Foundation on a common
>>>> extension repository.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
>>> Foundation Steering Committee, and Jomar Silva raised it on the
>> TDF-Discuss
>>> list. TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
>>> templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect
>> the
>>> URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it uses
>>> the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.
>>
>> Is the intent to host all of the extensions currently at the OOo site?
>> Or a subset?  Or a different set?
>>
>
> They host only extensions that have open source licenses, so the ones at the
> OOo site that have proprietary licenses are not hosted.

I'd like to have a central catalog of all extensions, commercial as
well as open source.  Not necessarily hosting them, but having the
basic metadata with links to whatever site hosts them. If we have
something like this then we can escape the need for having a singe
host site that gates user visibility of extensions based on eclectic
things like license considerations.   You could even have multiple
such catalogs. Maybe some which curate only GPL extensions for
example.

To do something like the above would require agreeing on a metadata
description file for extension authors.

I think this is complementary to TDF's interest in hosting open source
extensions.

> S.

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Andy Brown <an...@the-martin-byrd.net>]

Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:43:10 +0100, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
> ...
>>
>>> >
>>> > As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
>>
>>>
>>> Is the intent to host all of the extensions currently at the OOo site?
>>>  Or a subset?  Or a different set?
>>>
>>
>> They host only extensions that have open source licenses, so the ones
>> at the
>> OOo site that have proprietary licenses are not hosted.
>>
> 
> While this is understandable, it is not good enough. We will have to
> find an
> alternative repository and link to it from Apache's website. This is
> something
> that can wait though.
> 
> Pedro

This is being worked on at this time.

Andy

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[André Schnabel <an...@gmx.net>]

Hi,

Am 13.07.2011 00:37, schrieb Pedro Giffuni:
>
> While this is understandable, it is not good enough. We will have to 
> find an
> alternative repository and link to it from Apache's website. This is 
> something
> that can wait though.


You might think different, when you was an actual user or author of an 
extension.

E.g., the extensions I published at the ooo extension site are listed in 
other software repositories as well, but just as a link. E.g. Heise.de 
does so. Within the last weeks I got several notifications that my 
extensions would be de-registered, as it is not available anymore.

Seems, stil many here did not yet realize that apache has taken a 
project *and product* with dozends of millions active users.

But - good to know, that (according to Andrew) there is work on this 
here (as well as at TDF).

André

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

Here is what an OSUOSL admin said in July when this happened last:

> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
> should be back online now.
> 
> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
> because they just go off all the time.
> 
> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
> 
> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
> resources.
> 
> Thanks-

It is certainly a load issue. It might be a place to donate hardware and Drupal "foo"

Regards,
Dave

On Aug 14, 2011, at 9:27 AM, Nóirín Plunkett wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 4:14 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 09:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> Or is this something that could be moved to apache-extras.org ?
>> 
>> Hola Rob,
>> 
>> We would get slammed with license issues, wouldn't we?
>> - at least that is what I think. If we are on non-apache servers, then
>> dishing up the broader license mix is acceptable is the take I get from
>> what I've read so far, but on ASF hardware...nope. (*smile* - then again
>> could be 100% mistaken there.)
>> 
> 
> You've got the gist of it :-)
> 
> But apache-extras is actually Google hardware, and exists explicitly
> to support extensions and add-on pieces that, for whatever reason,
> don't belong on Apache hardware. One of the potential reasons being,
> of course, the license :-)
> 
> http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html
> 
> Noirin

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Nóirín Plunkett <no...@apache.org>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 4:14 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 09:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
>
>> Or is this something that could be moved to apache-extras.org ?
>
> Hola Rob,
>
> We would get slammed with license issues, wouldn't we?
> - at least that is what I think. If we are on non-apache servers, then
> dishing up the broader license mix is acceptable is the take I get from
> what I've read so far, but on ASF hardware...nope. (*smile* - then again
> could be 100% mistaken there.)
>

You've got the gist of it :-)

But apache-extras is actually Google hardware, and exists explicitly
to support extensions and add-on pieces that, for whatever reason,
don't belong on Apache hardware. One of the potential reasons being,
of course, the license :-)

http://community.apache.org/apache-extras/faq.html

Noirin

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 09:07 -0400, Rob Weir wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:26 AM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> > The site (particularly templates) seems hinky, bad, and has for a over a
> > day now, once again.
> >
> 
> Do we know what the underlying issue is?  Is it load related?
> 
> Do we have any stats on the most-downloaded extensions?  Would it be
> worth treating them specially, getting them into a mirroring
> infrastructure, for example?
> 
> Or is this something that could be moved to apache-extras.org ?

Hola Rob,

We would get slammed with license issues, wouldn't we? 
- at least that is what I think. If we are on non-apache servers, then
dishing up the broader license mix is acceptable is the take I get from
what I've read so far, but on ASF hardware...nope. (*smile* - then again
could be 100% mistaken there.)


//drew

Re: [www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 9:57 AM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 15:31 +0200, Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
>> 2011.08.14. 15:07 keltezéssel, Rob Weir írta:
>> > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:26 AM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>> >> The site (particularly templates) seems hinky, bad, and has for a over a
>> >> day now, once again.
>> >>
>> > Do we know what the underlying issue is?  Is it load related?
>> I don't know, may be not enough resources to do administration.
>
> I don't know specifics either, but there has been talk on the lists of
> it needing an upgrade to address scaling issues.
>
> You have to assume it is a lack of human resources, I know that they
> lost non-Sun/oracle employee admin support way back, so I don't know
> what the status of the current admin is ( I'm not even sure if it is
> only one person ).
>
> Maybe it is resources at the host that are lacking - but either way I
> think the PPMC has to take responsibility for keeping the site up,
> bottom line at this point.
>
> If it is not possible to get a stable stie up in a reasonable timeframe
> then maybe, yes, another outlet for the items submitted to the site
> needs to be found, up to and including transferring the artifacts to
> another provider such as the new LibreOffice repository IMO. The PPMC is
> not just responsible for that site now, but for the contributions from
> the many people that donated artifacts there and the current suer base
> that make use of them.
>
> I am strongly, very strongly, in favor of the PPMC finding a solution,
> in situ, however.
>

IIRC, these extensions are 3rd party, under a variety of licenses,
including some that are not open source.  Is that correct?

If so, I'm not sure that we can be hosting the extensions as an
official part of the AOOo project.  But the purpose of Apache-Extras
is to support extensions to Apache projects that are not Apache 2.0
licensed.

Another option, which I brought up the last time this topic was
discussed on the list, is that we maintain a catalog of extensions,
but don't maintain the storage of the extensions themselves.  So a
distributed approach where we own the directory.

There are several free forges where extension authors can maintain
their extensions, as well as the not-too-difficult option of
self-hosting.

>From the end-user perspective, they should not notice a big
difference.  They browse a list of extensions, click 'download' and
they get the extension.  But the extension would be served by an
external site, the responsibility of the extension author.

For this to work we'd need some way for extension authors to submit
their extension descriptions and metadata.  Maybe a simple XML format,
or a web form that generates that XML.  Then you need a program to gen
the website from the XML.  Xalan XSLT could be used for this, for
example.

What do you think of a distributed approach like this?

> //drew
>
>>
>> At the end of July when similar down happens, I submitted a support
>> question to support@osuosl.org e-mail.
>> After few days the pages were up.
>>
>> And get answer:
>> Should be back online. This is a persistent issue that we do not have
>> the time nor resources to resolve long term. I'm waiting to hear where
>> this site will end up (hopefully with the ASF). For now I have to just
>> mend it along.
>>
>> Zoltan
>>
>> Do we have any stats on the most-downloaded extensions? Would it be
>> worth treating them specially, getting them into a mirroring
>> infrastructure, for example? Or is this something that could be moved to
>> apache-extras.org ?
>> >> On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 17:37 -0500, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
>> >>
>> >> <snip>
>> >>>   We will have to
>> >>>   find an
>> >>>   alternative repository
>> >> <snip>
>> >>
>> >> We Need to fix the current one
>> >>
>> >> - the fact that LibreOffice will open yet another repository (as
>> >> mentioned there are already other locations on the net hosting OO.o/Libo
>> >> compatible extensions) is IMO great, the current site however has the
>> >> largest collection of files and one would be foolish to just close it.
>> >>
>> >> What would be _really_ nice is someone hack an extension that lets the
>> >> user change default repos, and for bonus points, search ala InkScape and
>> >> OpenClipart...but I wander OT there.
>> >>
>> >> my very late .02
>> >>
>> >> //drew
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[www] Ext / Temp repository stability ( was Extensions and templates site down )

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

On Sun, 2011-08-14 at 15:31 +0200, Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
> 2011.08.14. 15:07 keltezéssel, Rob Weir írta:
> > On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:26 AM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
> >> The site (particularly templates) seems hinky, bad, and has for a over a
> >> day now, once again.
> >>
> > Do we know what the underlying issue is?  Is it load related?
> I don't know, may be not enough resources to do administration.

I don't know specifics either, but there has been talk on the lists of
it needing an upgrade to address scaling issues.

You have to assume it is a lack of human resources, I know that they
lost non-Sun/oracle employee admin support way back, so I don't know
what the status of the current admin is ( I'm not even sure if it is
only one person ).

Maybe it is resources at the host that are lacking - but either way I
think the PPMC has to take responsibility for keeping the site up,
bottom line at this point. 

If it is not possible to get a stable stie up in a reasonable timeframe
then maybe, yes, another outlet for the items submitted to the site
needs to be found, up to and including transferring the artifacts to
another provider such as the new LibreOffice repository IMO. The PPMC is
not just responsible for that site now, but for the contributions from
the many people that donated artifacts there and the current suer base
that make use of them.

I am strongly, very strongly, in favor of the PPMC finding a solution,
in situ, however.

//drew

> 
> At the end of July when similar down happens, I submitted a support 
> question to support@osuosl.org e-mail.
> After few days the pages were up.
> 
> And get answer:
> Should be back online. This is a persistent issue that we do not have 
> the time nor resources to resolve long term. I'm waiting to hear where 
> this site will end up (hopefully with the ASF). For now I have to just 
> mend it along.
> 
> Zoltan
> 
> Do we have any stats on the most-downloaded extensions? Would it be 
> worth treating them specially, getting them into a mirroring 
> infrastructure, for example? Or is this something that could be moved to 
> apache-extras.org ?
> >> On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 17:37 -0500, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>>   We will have to
> >>>   find an
> >>>   alternative repository
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> We Need to fix the current one
> >>
> >> - the fact that LibreOffice will open yet another repository (as
> >> mentioned there are already other locations on the net hosting OO.o/Libo
> >> compatible extensions) is IMO great, the current site however has the
> >> largest collection of files and one would be foolish to just close it.
> >>
> >> What would be _really_ nice is someone hack an extension that lets the
> >> user change default repos, and for bonus points, search ala InkScape and
> >> OpenClipart...but I wander OT there.
> >>
> >> my very late .02
> >>
> >> //drew
> >>
> >>
> 
> 

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu>]

2011.08.14. 15:07 keltezéssel, Rob Weir írta:
> On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:26 AM, drew<dr...@baseanswers.com>  wrote:
>> The site (particularly templates) seems hinky, bad, and has for a over a
>> day now, once again.
>>
> Do we know what the underlying issue is?  Is it load related?
I don't know, may be not enough resources to do administration.

At the end of July when similar down happens, I submitted a support 
question to support@osuosl.org e-mail.
After few days the pages were up.

And get answer:
Should be back online. This is a persistent issue that we do not have 
the time nor resources to resolve long term. I'm waiting to hear where 
this site will end up (hopefully with the ASF). For now I have to just 
mend it along.

Zoltan

Do we have any stats on the most-downloaded extensions? Would it be 
worth treating them specially, getting them into a mirroring 
infrastructure, for example? Or is this something that could be moved to 
apache-extras.org ?
>> On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 17:37 -0500, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>>   We will have to
>>>   find an
>>>   alternative repository
>> <snip>
>>
>> We Need to fix the current one
>>
>> - the fact that LibreOffice will open yet another repository (as
>> mentioned there are already other locations on the net hosting OO.o/Libo
>> compatible extensions) is IMO great, the current site however has the
>> largest collection of files and one would be foolish to just close it.
>>
>> What would be _really_ nice is someone hack an extension that lets the
>> user change default repos, and for bonus points, search ala InkScape and
>> OpenClipart...but I wander OT there.
>>
>> my very late .02
>>
>> //drew
>>
>>

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 8:26 AM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
> The site (particularly templates) seems hinky, bad, and has for a over a
> day now, once again.
>

Do we know what the underlying issue is?  Is it load related?

Do we have any stats on the most-downloaded extensions?  Would it be
worth treating them specially, getting them into a mirroring
infrastructure, for example?

Or is this something that could be moved to apache-extras.org ?

>
> On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 17:37 -0500, Pedro Giffuni wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>  We will have to
>>  find an
>>  alternative repository
> <snip>
>
> We Need to fix the current one
>
> - the fact that LibreOffice will open yet another repository (as
> mentioned there are already other locations on the net hosting OO.o/Libo
> compatible extensions) is IMO great, the current site however has the
> largest collection of files and one would be foolish to just close it.
>
> What would be _really_ nice is someone hack an extension that lets the
> user change default repos, and for bonus points, search ala InkScape and
> OpenClipart...but I wander OT there.
>
> my very late .02
>
> //drew
>
>

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>]

The site (particularly templates) seems hinky, bad, and has for a over a
day now, once again. 


On Tue, 2011-07-12 at 17:37 -0500, Pedro Giffuni wrote:

<snip>
>  We will have to 
>  find an
>  alternative repository 
<snip>

We Need to fix the current one 

- the fact that LibreOffice will open yet another repository (as
mentioned there are already other locations on the net hosting OO.o/Libo
compatible extensions) is IMO great, the current site however has the
largest collection of files and one would be foolish to just close it.

What would be _really_ nice is someone hack an extension that lets the
user change default repos, and for bonus points, search ala InkScape and
OpenClipart...but I wander OT there.

my very late .02

//drew

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Pedro Giffuni <gi...@tutopia.com>]

 On Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:43:10 +0100, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> 
 wrote:
 ...
>
>> >
>> > As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the 
>> Document
>
>>
>> Is the intent to host all of the extensions currently at the OOo 
>> site?
>>  Or a subset?  Or a different set?
>>
>
> They host only extensions that have open source licenses, so the ones 
> at the
> OOo site that have proprietary licenses are not hosted.
>

 While this is understandable, it is not good enough. We will have to 
 find an
 alternative repository and link to it from Apache's website. This is 
 something
 that can wait though.

 Pedro

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM, Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Another option that comes to mind:
> >>
> >> 3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
> >> that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
> >> we'll want to be more explicit about such links to 3rd party sites
> >> going forward, stating that this is not Apache code, etc.
> >>
> >> Also, if most of the extensions are applicable to LibreOffice and
> >> other derived products, as well as OpenOffice, then this might be an
> >> opportunity for collaboration with The Document Foundation on a common
> >> extension repository.
> >>
> >
> > As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
> > Foundation Steering Committee, and Jomar Silva raised it on the
> TDF-Discuss
> > list. TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
> > templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect
> the
> > URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it uses
> > the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.
>
> Is the intent to host all of the extensions currently at the OOo site?
>  Or a subset?  Or a different set?
>

They host only extensions that have open source licenses, so the ones at the
OOo site that have proprietary licenses are not hosted.

S.

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Rob Weir <ra...@gmail.com>]

On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
>
>> Another option that comes to mind:
>>
>> 3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
>> that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
>> we'll want to be more explicit about such links to 3rd party sites
>> going forward, stating that this is not Apache code, etc.
>>
>> Also, if most of the extensions are applicable to LibreOffice and
>> other derived products, as well as OpenOffice, then this might be an
>> opportunity for collaboration with The Document Foundation on a common
>> extension repository.
>>
>
> As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
> Foundation Steering Committee, and Jomar Silva raised it on the TDF-Discuss
> list. TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
> templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect the
> URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it uses
> the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.

Is the intent to host all of the extensions currently at the OOo site?
 Or a subset?  Or a different set?


>
> They are also happy for this arrangement to continue for as long as it makes
> sense, and have no problem with a shared repository indefinitely. Like
> Apache, they are only willing to host open source packages, so if anyone
> wanted a system that also hosted closed packages it would need to be created

> as a downstream of TDF's system
> I'm happy to act as a liaison on this if necessary, as I suspect is Jomar.
>
> S.

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Jomar Silva <ho...@gmail.com>]

> As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
> Foundation Steering Committee, and Jomar Silva raised it on the TDF-Discuss
> list. TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
> templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect the
> URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it uses
> the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.
>
> They are also happy for this arrangement to continue for as long as it makes
> sense, and have no problem with a shared repository indefinitely. Like
> Apache, they are only willing to host open source packages, so if anyone
> wanted a system that also hosted closed packages it would need to be created
> as a downstream of TDF's system.
>
> I'm happy to act as a liaison on this if necessary, as I suspect is Jomar.
>
> S.
>

I'll be happy too :)

Jomar

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Simon Phipps <si...@webmink.com>]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:

>  Another option that comes to mind:
>
> 3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
> that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
> we'll want to be more explicit about such links to 3rd party sites
> going forward, stating that this is not Apache code, etc.
>
> Also, if most of the extensions are applicable to LibreOffice and
> other derived products, as well as OpenOffice, then this might be an
> opportunity for collaboration with The Document Foundation on a common
> extension repository.
>

As it happens I'd already started exploring this one with the Document
Foundation Steering Committee, and Jomar Silva raised it on the TDF-Discuss
list. TDF are just about to launch a full version of their extensions &
templates system and they would be perfectly happy for AOOo to redirect the
URL that OpenOffice.org is using to access the repository so that it uses
the system TDF are hosting for LibreOffice.

They are also happy for this arrangement to continue for as long as it makes
sense, and have no problem with a shared repository indefinitely. Like
Apache, they are only willing to host open source packages, so if anyone
wanted a system that also hosted closed packages it would need to be created
as a downstream of TDF's system.

I'm happy to act as a liaison on this if necessary, as I suspect is Jomar.

S.

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>]

On 12/07/2011 Rob Weir wrote:
> > 1) The new extensions.openoffice.org site hosts no code or binaries.
> > It is simply a directory of 3rd party extensions and links to outside
> > sites for the actual files.

This would really be suboptimal since the OpenOffice.org community
really expects to use the extensions site both for downloading and
uploading extensions: unaffiliated members involved with extensions
development used to outnumber unaffiliated members working on core.

> > 2) Optionally, in conjunction with #1, host the extension source and
> > distributions at http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/ .
> ... 3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
> that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
> we'll want to be more explicit about such links

OK, then it's probably time to decide on a DNS zone corresponding to
what used to be *.services.openoffice.org and dedicated to community
resources, since the Apache Extras option does not seems practical
seeing the dozens of sites needed. Maybe "*.services.openoffice.org" is
not explicit enough: would "*.community.openoffice.org" be better?
Shorter options?

Regards,
  Andrea.

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:54 AM, Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I sent an email to support@osuosl.org last night and got a response in 30 minutes.
>>
>> OSUOSL admin says:
>>
>>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>>> should be back online now.
>>>
>>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>>> because they just go off all the time.
>>>
>>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>>
>>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>>> resources.
>>
>> It looks like these two sites are going to need attention whether they are physically moved or the servers transferred to the ASF.
>>
>
> Since the extensions site has 3rd party code that is not under Apache
> 2.0 license, we have two options:
>
> 1) The new extensions.openoffice.org site hosts no code or binaries.
> It is simply a directory of 3rd party extensions and links to outside
> sites for the actual files.
>
> 2) Optionally, in conjunction with #1, host the extension source and
> distributions at http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/ .
>  That is where Apache projects host things like this.
>

Another option that comes to mind:

3) Have OOo extensions hosted by a 3rd party website and we link to
that site.  It is done that way essentially now with OSL.  But I think
we'll want to be more explicit about such links to 3rd party sites
going forward, stating that this is not Apache code, etc.

Also, if most of the extensions are applicable to LibreOffice and
other derived products, as well as OpenOffice, then this might be an
opportunity for collaboration with The Document Foundation on a common
extension repository.


>> Rob says:
>>
>>> Can we make it a priority to migrate these two site to Apache?  We
>>> need volunteers to do this.  Nothing happens by magic here. We need
>>> volunteers to define the technical requirements and work with Apache
>>> Infrastructure to make this happen.  Hopefully we'd make some platform
>>> and technology choices that would be more stable than the current
>>> site.  I'd recommend moving and then asking Oracle to redirect
>>> requests for those two subdomains to Apache.
>>
>> We did get a zone file yesterday, but it was missing these two domains. I think that the track is to transfer the domain and zone dns to the ASF first and then we will be able to do what we want.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>> -Rob
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu> wrote:
>>>> 2011.07.11. 15:41 keltezéssel, TJ Frazier írta:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh to
>>>>>>> load:
>>>>>>> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>>>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>>>> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
>>>>>>> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser
>>>>>> and I don't have further updates available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>   Andrea.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e
>>>>>
>>>>> since it is titled, "Re: Bugzilla or JIRA? ..." etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oregon State University Open Source Lab hosts the extensions site, and
>>>>> some Apache-related things as well. Just for fun, I tried looking up
>>>>> OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was impenetrable to my
>>>>> relatively feeble search attempts.
>>>>>
>>>>> As a systems programmer (retired), I used to read a lot of tickets, and it
>>>>> was my job to solve them. I find this protracted trouble curious, to say the
>>>>> least. :-/
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me it is an abandoned site, nobody care for it, it hurt all OOo
>>>> effort if we not find a solution to restart, the users ask every day on
>>>> forum which way they could find specific extensions, and we can not help
>>>> them. It is sad thing.
>>>> Zoltan
>>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:32 AM, Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I sent an email to support@osuosl.org last night and got a response in 30 minutes.
>
> OSUOSL admin says:
>
>> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
>> should be back online now.
>>
>> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
>> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
>> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
>> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
>> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
>> because they just go off all the time.
>>
>> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
>> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
>> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
>> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
>> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
>>
>> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
>> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
>> resources.
>
> It looks like these two sites are going to need attention whether they are physically moved or the servers transferred to the ASF.
>

Since the extensions site has 3rd party code that is not under Apache
2.0 license, we have two options:

1) The new extensions.openoffice.org site hosts no code or binaries.
It is simply a directory of 3rd party extensions and links to outside
sites for the actual files.

2) Optionally, in conjunction with #1, host the extension source and
distributions at http://code.google.com/a/apache-extras.org/hosting/ .
 That is where Apache projects host things like this.

> Rob says:
>
>> Can we make it a priority to migrate these two site to Apache?  We
>> need volunteers to do this.  Nothing happens by magic here. We need
>> volunteers to define the technical requirements and work with Apache
>> Infrastructure to make this happen.  Hopefully we'd make some platform
>> and technology choices that would be more stable than the current
>> site.  I'd recommend moving and then asking Oracle to redirect
>> requests for those two subdomains to Apache.
>
> We did get a zone file yesterday, but it was missing these two domains. I think that the track is to transfer the domain and zone dns to the ASF first and then we will be able to do what we want.
>
> Regards,
> Dave
>
>>
>> -Rob
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu> wrote:
>>> 2011.07.11. 15:41 keltezéssel, TJ Frazier írta:
>>>>
>>>> On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh to
>>>>>> load:
>>>>>> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>>> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
>>>>>> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser
>>>>> and I don't have further updates available.
>>>>>
>>>>> Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>   Andrea.
>>>>>
>>>> Hi, all,
>>>>
>>>> Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e
>>>>
>>>> since it is titled, "Re: Bugzilla or JIRA? ..." etc.
>>>>
>>>> Oregon State University Open Source Lab hosts the extensions site, and
>>>> some Apache-related things as well. Just for fun, I tried looking up
>>>> OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was impenetrable to my
>>>> relatively feeble search attempts.
>>>>
>>>> As a systems programmer (retired), I used to read a lot of tickets, and it
>>>> was my job to solve them. I find this protracted trouble curious, to say the
>>>> least. :-/
>>>
>>> It seems to me it is an abandoned site, nobody care for it, it hurt all OOo
>>> effort if we not find a solution to restart, the users ask every day on
>>> forum which way they could find specific extensions, and we can not help
>>> them. It is sad thing.
>>> Zoltan
>>>
>
>

RE: Extensions and templates site down

[Gavin McDonald <ga...@16degrees.com.au>]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2wave@comcast.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, 13 July 2011 12:32 AM
> To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Extensions and templates site down

<snip>

> We did get a zone file yesterday, but it was missing these two domains.

Who is 'we' please ?

Can you forward a copy to me and to joes please (or just to root@apache.org
if
you're not happy with doing the former.)

Thanks

Gav...


> I
> think that the track is to transfer the domain and zone dns to the ASF
first
> and then we will be able to do what we want.
> 
> Regards,
> Dave
> 
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu>
> wrote:
> >> 2011.07.11. 15:41 keltezéssel, TJ Frazier írta:
> >>>
> >>> On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh
> >>>>> to
> >>>>> load:
> >>>>> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
> >>>>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
> >>>>> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
> >>>>> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-
> dev/201106.m
> >>>> box/browser and I don't have further updates available.
> >>>>
> >>>> Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.
> >>>>
> >>>> Regards,
> >>>>   Andrea.
> >>>>
> >>> Hi, all,
> >>>
> >>> Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-
> dev/201106.mb
> >>> ox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e
> >>>
> >>> since it is titled, "Re: Bugzilla or JIRA? ..." etc.
> >>>
> >>> Oregon State University Open Source Lab hosts the extensions site,
> >>> and some Apache-related things as well. Just for fun, I tried
> >>> looking up OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was
> >>> impenetrable to my relatively feeble search attempts.
> >>>
> >>> As a systems programmer (retired), I used to read a lot of tickets,
> >>> and it was my job to solve them. I find this protracted trouble
> >>> curious, to say the least. :-/
> >>
> >> It seems to me it is an abandoned site, nobody care for it, it hurt
> >> all OOo effort if we not find a solution to restart, the users ask
> >> every day on forum which way they could find specific extensions, and
> >> we can not help them. It is sad thing.
> >> Zoltan
> >>

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Dave Fisher <da...@comcast.net>]

I sent an email to support@osuosl.org last night and got a response in 30 minutes.

OSUOSL admin says:

> Looks like varnish died on the machine and I just kicked it. The site(s)
> should be back online now.
> 
> The sites have been in an unstable state for quite a while mostly
> because neither we (OSL) nor Sun/Oracle had time to fix the performance
> issues both of the sites entails. Couple that with the fact that the
> machines they power those sites are very underpower considering the load
> they take. It's gotten so bad that we've turned off notifications
> because they just go off all the time.
> 
> What really needs to happen is to have the sites completely
> re-architected from the ground up with scaling in mind. At least one of
> the sites is a stock Drupal 5.0 with a very hacked core. I know some
> Sun/Oracle engineers had been working on fixing that into a Drupal 6
> module but I'm not sure where that left off.
> 
> Anyways, If you would like some more help with how these sites can be
> fixed moving forward, please let me know. But we are strectched thin for
> resources.

It looks like these two sites are going to need attention whether they are physically moved or the servers transferred to the ASF.

Rob says:

> Can we make it a priority to migrate these two site to Apache?  We
> need volunteers to do this.  Nothing happens by magic here. We need
> volunteers to define the technical requirements and work with Apache
> Infrastructure to make this happen.  Hopefully we'd make some platform
> and technology choices that would be more stable than the current
> site.  I'd recommend moving and then asking Oracle to redirect
> requests for those two subdomains to Apache.

We did get a zone file yesterday, but it was missing these two domains. I think that the track is to transfer the domain and zone dns to the ASF first and then we will be able to do what we want.

Regards,
Dave

> 
> -Rob
> 
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu> wrote:
>> 2011.07.11. 15:41 keltezéssel, TJ Frazier írta:
>>> 
>>> On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh to
>>>>> load:
>>>>> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
>>>>> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
>>>>> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
>>>> 
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser
>>>> and I don't have further updates available.
>>>> 
>>>> Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>>   Andrea.
>>>> 
>>> Hi, all,
>>> 
>>> Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e
>>> 
>>> since it is titled, "Re: Bugzilla or JIRA? ..." etc.
>>> 
>>> Oregon State University Open Source Lab hosts the extensions site, and
>>> some Apache-related things as well. Just for fun, I tried looking up
>>> OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was impenetrable to my
>>> relatively feeble search attempts.
>>> 
>>> As a systems programmer (retired), I used to read a lot of tickets, and it
>>> was my job to solve them. I find this protracted trouble curious, to say the
>>> least. :-/
>> 
>> It seems to me it is an abandoned site, nobody care for it, it hurt all OOo
>> effort if we not find a solution to restart, the users ask every day on
>> forum which way they could find specific extensions, and we can not help
>> them. It is sad thing.
>> Zoltan
>> 

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Rob Weir <ap...@robweir.com>]

Can we make it a priority to migrate these two site to Apache?  We
need volunteers to do this.  Nothing happens by magic here. We need
volunteers to define the technical requirements and work with Apache
Infrastructure to make this happen.  Hopefully we'd make some platform
and technology choices that would be more stable than the current
site.  I'd recommend moving and then asking Oracle to redirect
requests for those two subdomains to Apache.

-Rob

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 2:01 AM, Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu> wrote:
> 2011.07.11. 15:41 keltezéssel, TJ Frazier írta:
>>
>> On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>>>
>>> Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh to
>>>> load:
>>>> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
>>>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
>>>> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
>>>> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.
>>>
>>> Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
>>>
>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser
>>> and I don't have further updates available.
>>>
>>> Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>   Andrea.
>>>
>> Hi, all,
>>
>> Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:
>>
>>
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e
>>
>> since it is titled, "Re: Bugzilla or JIRA? ..." etc.
>>
>> Oregon State University Open Source Lab hosts the extensions site, and
>> some Apache-related things as well. Just for fun, I tried looking up
>> OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was impenetrable to my
>> relatively feeble search attempts.
>>
>> As a systems programmer (retired), I used to read a lot of tickets, and it
>> was my job to solve them. I find this protracted trouble curious, to say the
>> least. :-/
>
> It seems to me it is an abandoned site, nobody care for it, it hurt all OOo
> effort if we not find a solution to restart, the users ask every day on
> forum which way they could find specific extensions, and we can not help
> them. It is sad thing.
> Zoltan
>

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Reizinger Zoltán <zr...@hdsnet.hu>]

2011.07.11. 15:41 keltezéssel, TJ Frazier írta:
> On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
>> Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
>>> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh 
>>> to load:
>>> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
>>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
>>> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
>>> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.
>>
>> Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser 
>>
>> and I don't have further updates available.
>>
>> Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.
>>
>> Regards,
>>    Andrea.
>>
> Hi, all,
>
> Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e 
>
>
> since it is titled, "Re: Bugzilla or JIRA? ..." etc.
>
> Oregon State University Open Source Lab hosts the extensions site, and 
> some Apache-related things as well. Just for fun, I tried looking up 
> OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was impenetrable to 
> my relatively feeble search attempts.
>
> As a systems programmer (retired), I used to read a lot of tickets, 
> and it was my job to solve them. I find this protracted trouble 
> curious, to say the least. :-/
It seems to me it is an abandoned site, nobody care for it, it hurt all 
OOo effort if we not find a solution to restart, the users ask every day 
on forum which way they could find specific extensions, and we can not 
help them. It is sad thing.
Zoltan

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[TJ Frazier <tj...@cfl.rr.com>]

On 7/11/2011 07:28, Andrea Pescetti wrote:
> Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
>> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh to load:
>> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
>> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
>> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
>> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.
>
> Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser
> and I don't have further updates available.
>
> Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.
>
> Regards,
>    Andrea.
>
Hi, all,

Andrea Pescetti's helpful message is easier to find here:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/%3c1308391724.2986.34.camel@localhost.localdomain%3e

since it is titled, "Re: Bugzilla or JIRA? ..." etc.

Oregon State University Open Source Lab hosts the extensions site, and 
some Apache-related things as well. Just for fun, I tried looking up 
OSUOSL's service ticket #18367, but their website was impenetrable to my 
relatively feeble search attempts.

As a systems programmer (retired), I used to read a lot of tickets, and 
it was my job to solve them. I find this protracted trouble curious, to 
say the least. :-/
-- 
/tj/

Re: Extensions and templates site down

[Andrea Pescetti <pe...@openoffice.org>]

Reizinger Zoltán wrote:
> The two sites works sporadically, needs four five web page refresh to load:
> http://templates.services.openoffice.org/
> http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/
> To help OOo present users, needs to stabilize sites work.
> Somebody knows what the cause of this problem.

Yes, I posted some more details in this message a few weeks ago:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-ooo-dev/201106.mbox/browser
and I don't have further updates available.

Note that those sites are not part of the Oracle infrastructure.

Regards,
  Andrea.