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Posted to legal-discuss@apache.org by "Ian Holsman (Lists)" <li...@holsman.net> on 2008/05/07 08:29:01 UTC
Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old license?
I've got a piece of code written in 'C', and would like to rewrite it in
java, keeping the algorithm the same. Can I change the license?
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old license?
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On May 7, 2008, at 2:29 AM, Ian Holsman (Lists) wrote:
> I've got a piece of code written in 'C', and would like to rewrite
> it in java, keeping the algorithm the same. Can I change the license?
Unfortunately not... IANAL, but as I understand it, you
are simply translating a work, and, as such, the orig copyright
and license would be in affect.
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old
license?
Posted by "Ian Holsman (Lists)" <li...@holsman.net>.
Roland Weber wrote:
>
> If you want to read more about this stuff, try [1].
>
> cheers,
> Roland
>
> [1]
> http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/originality-requirements.html
>
>
>
Thanks for the answer.
Its a question that has always bugged me.
Regards
Ian
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old
license?
Posted by Roland Weber <os...@dubioso.net>.
Hi Ian,
Ian Holsman (Lists) wrote:
> I've got a piece of code written in 'C', and would like to rewrite it in
> java, keeping the algorithm the same. Can I change the license?
Since you are starting from the _code_, you have to keep
the license. You can choose a different license for the
parts that you add, but the parts that you re-use from
the old code remain under the old license. If you had
started from a non-code _description_ of the algorithm,
you could have chosen the license for your new code.
If you want to read more about this stuff, try [1].
cheers,
Roland
[1] http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/originality-requirements.html
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old
license?
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Assaf Arkin wrote:
> I think you meant "ideas are not copyrightable". Copyright law would
> only care whether it's derivative, because you're translating from one
> language to another, or original work, since you're creating new code
> but incorporating an idea from some other place.
You're right. My response was a bit confused. Thanks for clarifying.
> Separately, the algorithm may be protected by patent.
Yes, although the term "method" is usually used for stuff that can be
patented, and "algorithm" for stuff that cannot be, but granted, beyond
that, the distinction is vague.
Returning to the original question: We shouldn't generally pro-actively
look for patents that our code might infringe, but rather wait until
someone notifies us that they think we've infringed their patent and
deal with that then. So a re-implementation effort under a different
license should not generally first perform patent research.
Doug
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old license?
Posted by Assaf Arkin <ar...@intalio.com>.
On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Matt Benson wrote:
>
>> If the original code is your own [ ... ]
>>
>
> On the other hand, if the original code is *not* yours, but rather some
> code you downloaded from somewhere, then a literal translation would
> probably be considered a derived work and hence its licensed cannot be
> altered without permission. Algorithms are not patentable, so reading the C
> code to see how it works, then re-writing it in Java might be okay, provided
> you don't structure your program too similarly.
I think you meant "ideas are not copyrightable". Copyright law would only
care whether it's derivative, because you're translating from one language
to another, or original work, since you're creating new code but
incorporating an idea from some other place.
Separately, the algorithm may be protected by patent.
Assaf
>
>
> Doug
>
>
Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old
license?
Posted by Roland Weber <os...@dubioso.net>.
Doug Cutting wrote:
> Algorithms are not patentable
Are you sure?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphics_Interchange_Format#Unisys_and_LZW_patent_enforcement
In Europe, software is not patentable. But you can get
patents on "a computer system running such software",
which has the same effect :-(
cheers,
Roland
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old license?
Posted by Matt Benson <gu...@yahoo.com>.
--- Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org> wrote:
> Algorithms are not
> patentable
Ah... my mistake. My implication to the contrary was
based on e.g. mathematical books that prohibit the
implementation of algorithms expressed in their text
without express permission. While this practice
doesn't explicitly declare a patent, it is suggestive
that permission to use an algorithm is not a given.
Of course, it may well be the case that these types of
notices in books are not very defensible; I wouldn't
know.
-Matt
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old
license?
Posted by Doug Cutting <cu...@apache.org>.
Matt Benson wrote:
> If the original code is your own [ ... ]
On the other hand, if the original code is *not* yours, but rather some
code you downloaded from somewhere, then a literal translation would
probably be considered a derived work and hence its licensed cannot be
altered without permission. Algorithms are not patentable, so reading
the C code to see how it works, then re-writing it in Java might be
okay, provided you don't structure your program too similarly.
Doug
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old license?
Posted by Matt Benson <gu...@yahoo.com>.
Disclaimer: My answer below presumes that there are
no patent encumbrances against the basic algorithm,
plus IANAL.
-Matt
--- Matt Benson <gu...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If the original code is your own, and not owned by
> e.g. your employer at the time you wrote it, you are
> free to relicense, multi-license, etc. however you
> like. The copyright owner always has full control.
>
> -Matt
>
> --- "Ian Holsman (Lists)" <li...@holsman.net> wrote:
>
> > I've got a piece of code written in 'C', and would
> > like to rewrite it in
> > java, keeping the algorithm the same. Can I change
> > the license?
> >
> >
> >
>
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> > official ASF policies and documents.
> >
>
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> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old license?
Posted by Matt Benson <gu...@yahoo.com>.
If the original code is your own, and not owned by
e.g. your employer at the time you wrote it, you are
free to relicense, multi-license, etc. however you
like. The copyright owner always has full control.
-Matt
--- "Ian Holsman (Lists)" <li...@holsman.net> wrote:
> I've got a piece of code written in 'C', and would
> like to rewrite it in
> java, keeping the algorithm the same. Can I change
> the license?
>
>
>
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> only. Statements made on this list are not
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> reflect the opinions
> and policies of the ASF. See
> <http://www.apache.org/licenses/> for
> official ASF policies and documents.
>
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RE: Does re-writing a piece of code mean you need to keep the old license?
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Ian,
> I've got a piece of code written in 'C', and would like to rewrite it in
> java, keeping the algorithm the same. Can I change the license?
Are you simply translating C to Java or are you reimplementing the algorithm
in Java, not translating the existing C-based implementation? Ask yourself
that question, and then revist the URL that Roland provided:
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/resources/2007/originality-requirements.html.
You may well conclude that the question posed leads to differenc
conclusions. But you would likely need to check with a lawyer, who would
need more detail, and we could probably find another lawyer to take the
opposing view. ;-)
--- Noel
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