Re: Apache Gora and jOOQ

[Henry Saputra <he...@gmail.com>]

Hi Lukas,

Thanks so much for your email and your followup =)

I personally would prefer to go with option one for now. It would give
us immediate support for SQL module back for Gora even for non
commercial databases.

As Renato has mentioned too, we need to send VOTE message to dev
community and user to make sure Gora community agree about the
approach and make their opinion heard.

CC user list

- Henry


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Lewis John Mcgibbney
<le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Lukas,
>
> N.B. Including dev@gora list here to keep everyone in the loop.
>
> Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I personally would like to apologize
> for not dropping in on this one earlier. My resources have been focused
> elsewhere as of late and I have not had the JOOQ initiative at the top of
> my TODO list.
> Regarding your points/options please see below
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Lukas Eder <lu...@datageekery.com>wrote:
>
>> 1. Apache Gora links and embeds only the jOOQ Open Source Edition, which
>> is available and will continue to be available from Maven Central under the
>> terms of the ASL 2.0. For Apache Gora, there are no additional license
>> terms. For your end users, there aren't any additional terms either, if
>> they're using Apache Gora with an Open Source database. If end users wish
>> to use Apache Gora with SQL Server, for instance, they would need to
>> purchase a license from Data Geekery and replace jOOQ Open Source Edition
>> binaries with jOOQ Professional Edition binaries. In this case, Data
>> Geekery would welcome but not require a backlink indicating that Apache
>> Gora is based on jOOQ.
>>
>
> This sounds like the most realistic option IMHO. At the end of the day we
> (Gora) as an Apache top level project are in no position to change the
> terms and/or add to the Apache License v2.0 in any way. What is slightly
> annoying right now is that a good re-write of the gora-sql module to
> implement JOOQ is extremely attractive for us at Gora but it appears the
> development cycles are not there right now!
>
>
>>
>> 2. In addition to the above, Data Geekery and Apache Gora could make a
>> separate agreement, which grants Apache Gora a perpetual license to use the
>> jOOQ Enterprise Edition for integration testing Apache Gora against SQL
>> Server and other commercial databases, but not to distribute, sublicense or
>> make available the jOOQ Enterprise Edition to end users. End users may
>> again use Apache Gora with the jOOQ Open Source Edition along with Open
>> Source databases, or they may purchase a commercial license from Data
>> Geekery. In this case, Data Geekery would require a prominent backlink
>> indicating that Apache Gora is based on jOOQ. This is how IntelliJ or
>> YourKit Profiler handle free commercial licenses for non-commercial OSS
>> projects as well.
>>
>
> This is also very attractive as it would enable us to verify gora
> compliance with commercial RDBMS... always a bonus to promote Gora to more
> people.
>
>
>>
>> 3. Data Geekery and Apache Gora will make a separate agreement, which
>> grants Apache Gora a perpetual license to use and distribute the jOOQ
>> Enterprise Edition, but not to sublicense jOOQ or to make the jOOQ API or
>> binaries available to end users (e.g. by embedding the jOOQ jar file). Of
>> course, there are technical ways to circumvent this restriction and
>> "extract" jOOQ from Apache Gora. Hence, there would need to be additional
>> terms to YOUR license, clearly indicating that only Apache Gora code is ASL
>> 2.0 licensed, whereas jOOQ binaries are jOOQ-licensed. I suspect that this
>> would make Apache Gora dual-licensed, as well...? This case would be based
>> on a discounted license paid by Apache Gora backers. Your end users would
>> not need to license jOOQ.
>>
>> Personally, I feel that 1) or 2) is the easiest for you guys to handle.
>>
>
> I agree with you here Lukas... I think that the first two options are most
> likely at this stage. We would pull in the ASL v2.0 licensed JOOQ maven
> artifacts as part of our gora-sql pom.xml, use the open source code and
> leave it down to module users if they wish to pursue a separate agreement
> with DataGeekery.
>
>
>>
>> Let me know what you think,
>> Lukas
>>
>> From my point of view this is something which sounds like a positive thing
> to progress with but as I said above my time and commitments are elsewhere
> right now. I am not in a position to begin writing the SQL module back in
> to Gora right now :(

AW: Apache Gora and jOOQ

[Lukas Eder <lu...@datageekery.com>]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your responses. I've been working for Adobe in the past, slightly involved with the Apache Jackrabbit, Sling and Felix projects. So, I can confirm that from what I recall, Apache projects shouldn't depend on non-Apache licensed or compatibly licensed projects. Those projects aren't required to be ASF projects, though. For instance, Jackrabbit makes heavy use of Google Guava.

But still, it's like a legal black hole with an ASL 2.0 license singularity ;-) The idea behind this is to guarantee that what has once been published by the ASF will remain Free Open Source forever. So, in my opinion, the jOOQ Open Source Edition would be acceptable, as it is also published under the ASL 2.0 and will thus remain FOSS forever - at least the bundles deployed to Maven Central.

Anyway, I agree. Go ahead with your votation and then I'll just follow up on your progress to see if you want to migrate from Option 1 to Option 2. We can thus postpone those particular licensing discussions to later on.

Cheers
Lukas

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Henry Saputra [mailto:henry.saputra@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. November 2013 06:09
An: dev@gora.apache.org; user@gora.apache.org
Cc: Lukas Eder
Betreff: Re: Apache Gora and jOOQ

Hi Lukas,

Thanks so much for your email and your followup =)

I personally would prefer to go with option one for now. It would give us immediate support for SQL module back for Gora even for non commercial databases.

As Renato has mentioned too, we need to send VOTE message to dev community and user to make sure Gora community agree about the approach and make their opinion heard.

CC user list

- Henry


On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 6:33 AM, Lewis John Mcgibbney <le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Lukas,
>
> N.B. Including dev@gora list here to keep everyone in the loop.
>
> Thanks for keeping this thread alive. I personally would like to 
> apologize for not dropping in on this one earlier. My resources have 
> been focused elsewhere as of late and I have not had the JOOQ 
> initiative at the top of my TODO list.
> Regarding your points/options please see below
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:42 PM, Lukas Eder <lu...@datageekery.com>wrote:
>
>> 1. Apache Gora links and embeds only the jOOQ Open Source Edition, 
>> which is available and will continue to be available from Maven 
>> Central under the terms of the ASL 2.0. For Apache Gora, there are no 
>> additional license terms. For your end users, there aren't any 
>> additional terms either, if they're using Apache Gora with an Open 
>> Source database. If end users wish to use Apache Gora with SQL 
>> Server, for instance, they would need to purchase a license from Data 
>> Geekery and replace jOOQ Open Source Edition binaries with jOOQ 
>> Professional Edition binaries. In this case, Data Geekery would 
>> welcome but not require a backlink indicating that Apache Gora is based on jOOQ.
>>
>
> This sounds like the most realistic option IMHO. At the end of the day 
> we
> (Gora) as an Apache top level project are in no position to change the 
> terms and/or add to the Apache License v2.0 in any way. What is 
> slightly annoying right now is that a good re-write of the gora-sql 
> module to implement JOOQ is extremely attractive for us at Gora but it 
> appears the development cycles are not there right now!
>
>
>>
>> 2. In addition to the above, Data Geekery and Apache Gora could make 
>> a separate agreement, which grants Apache Gora a perpetual license to 
>> use the jOOQ Enterprise Edition for integration testing Apache Gora 
>> against SQL Server and other commercial databases, but not to 
>> distribute, sublicense or make available the jOOQ Enterprise Edition 
>> to end users. End users may again use Apache Gora with the jOOQ Open 
>> Source Edition along with Open Source databases, or they may purchase 
>> a commercial license from Data Geekery. In this case, Data Geekery 
>> would require a prominent backlink indicating that Apache Gora is 
>> based on jOOQ. This is how IntelliJ or YourKit Profiler handle free 
>> commercial licenses for non-commercial OSS projects as well.
>>
>
> This is also very attractive as it would enable us to verify gora 
> compliance with commercial RDBMS... always a bonus to promote Gora to 
> more people.
>
>
>>
>> 3. Data Geekery and Apache Gora will make a separate agreement, which 
>> grants Apache Gora a perpetual license to use and distribute the jOOQ 
>> Enterprise Edition, but not to sublicense jOOQ or to make the jOOQ 
>> API or binaries available to end users (e.g. by embedding the jOOQ 
>> jar file). Of course, there are technical ways to circumvent this 
>> restriction and "extract" jOOQ from Apache Gora. Hence, there would 
>> need to be additional terms to YOUR license, clearly indicating that 
>> only Apache Gora code is ASL
>> 2.0 licensed, whereas jOOQ binaries are jOOQ-licensed. I suspect that 
>> this would make Apache Gora dual-licensed, as well...? This case 
>> would be based on a discounted license paid by Apache Gora backers. 
>> Your end users would not need to license jOOQ.
>>
>> Personally, I feel that 1) or 2) is the easiest for you guys to handle.
>>
>
> I agree with you here Lukas... I think that the first two options are 
> most likely at this stage. We would pull in the ASL v2.0 licensed JOOQ 
> maven artifacts as part of our gora-sql pom.xml, use the open source 
> code and leave it down to module users if they wish to pursue a 
> separate agreement with DataGeekery.
>
>
>>
>> Let me know what you think,
>> Lukas
>>
>> From my point of view this is something which sounds like a positive 
>> thing
> to progress with but as I said above my time and commitments are 
> elsewhere right now. I am not in a position to begin writing the SQL 
> module back in to Gora right now :(