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Posted to dev@flex.apache.org by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com> on 2012/10/02 11:01:23 UTC
Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Dear all,
Now, that we have seen the brave, new world of HTML5 designer tools formally
announced by Adobe [1] [2], I wonder: What is the current state of designer tools
for Apache Flex? I remember that there had been discussions about donating or
selling those past designer tools like Flash Catalyst CS5.5 [3] [4], Flash Builder 4.5
MXML Design View [5] [6] and Flex Builder 3 CSS Design View [7].
For the moment, I have the impression, that we are stuck into a world of
delusion until Adobe has caught their wild gone UI horses again. Are there
any news that Adobe or Spoon can share on this mailing list?
p.s. If you agree on what I have written here, please sign this petition [8].
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
[1] http://html.adobe.com/
[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efWKWxNu4zY
[3] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/introducing-flashcatalyst-cs55.html
[4] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/get_started_with_flash_catalyst.html
[5] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/whatsnew-flashbuilder-45.html
[6] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/design-view-extensions-faq.html
[7] http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/programming/flex/9780321591098/styling/ch04lev1sec7
[8] http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-flash-catalyst-must-survive
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Joan Llenas Masó <jo...@garnetworks.com>.
Yes, 6 years is a lot of time... I couldn't remember the name neither.
What I knew was that John Grden was behind it which was helpful.
Cheers!
On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 11:17 AM, Michael Schmalle
<ap...@teotigraphix.com>wrote:
> Quoting Joan Llenas Masó <jo...@garnetworks.com>:
>
> There's an old project called FLEXible that John Grden started some years
>> ago.
>> - http://rockonflash.wordpress.**com/2006/11/02/flexible-**released/<http://rockonflash.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/flexible-released/>
>> - http://osflash.org/flexible
>> - http://flexible.riaforge.org/
>>
>> Maybe that could would be a good starting point. It's Flex2 though. Some
>> kind of migration will be required.
>> At least it's worth checking it!
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>>
> I remember this and was going to bring it up yesterday but I couldn't
> remember the name, thanks Joan.
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Quoting Joan Llenas Masó <jo...@garnetworks.com>:
> There's an old project called FLEXible that John Grden started some years
> ago.
> - http://rockonflash.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/flexible-released/
> - http://osflash.org/flexible
> - http://flexible.riaforge.org/
>
> Maybe that could would be a good starting point. It's Flex2 though. Some
> kind of migration will be required.
> At least it's worth checking it!
>
> Cheers!
>
I remember this and was going to bring it up yesterday but I couldn't
remember the name, thanks Joan.
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Joan Llenas Masó <jo...@garnetworks.com>.
There's an old project called FLEXible that John Grden started some years
ago.
- http://rockonflash.wordpress.com/2006/11/02/flexible-released/
- http://osflash.org/flexible
- http://flexible.riaforge.org/
Maybe that could would be a good starting point. It's Flex2 though. Some
kind of migration will be required.
At least it's worth checking it!
Cheers!
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:37 PM, Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com> wrote:
> I'm not that familiar with writing eclipse plugins, but does anyone know
> if it is possible to communicate with Eclipse via a socket or some other
> local communications mechanism? If that were possible, an AIR-based DV
> tool could exchange information with eclipse. While not a built-in, part
> of the IDE window, solution, this is might be a good solution.
>
> Peter Ent
>
> On 10/2/12 2:13 PM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>
> >Quoting Stakesoft <ma...@stakesoft.com>:
> >
> >> That's all very well but (DV aside) FB is far better and we are used
> >> to it. It's not very useful to run 2 IDE's alongside otherwise we
> >> could use FB4.6 and FB4.7 nor is it a forward step to use a
> >> different IDE.
> >>
> >> Wanting another IDE to get better just because the Adobe one has
> >> just got worse is sole destroying, as is spending good time and
> >> money on an IDE that's now going to be of little use. I don't want
> >> to get into a rant, I'd rather be constructive.
> >>
> >> Is Apache at least sympathetic towards this, does Adobe care about
> >> this. Is there any hope at all?
> >>
> >> Nigel
> >>
> >
> >Being a committer I can say I totally understand what you are saying
> >about DV. I to am a visual person, although I never used DV that much
> >since I wrote more AS component type things, I can understand how it
> >would be included in design workflow.
> >
> >The problem I see is just what you said, IDE, which one, don't want to
> >switch. Lets say I have the experience to start a project like this.
> >What IDE do I target? IDEA and Eclipse are two large IDEs with a huge
> >difference in plugin API.
> >
> >Bam, I'm already dead in my tracks. Maintaining one code base for one
> >IDE is one thing but to maintain two, yeah right.
> >
> >Wait lets do AIR, oh but 50%+ devs would only use an "IDE Plugin", so
> >then you only get half support for using a half baked AIR
> >implementation.
> >
> >I see no real solution to this. Now lets add the fact we have to
> >incorporate the FlashPlayer in DV, you want dnd, haha that takes the
> >difficulty of coding 5 levels higher.
> >
> >As a developer, I'm sure a lot are not speaking up on this subject
> >because our hands are tied, there is really no answer to this.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: charles.monteiro@gmail.com [mailto:charles.monteiro@gmail.com]
> >> On Behalf Of Charles Monteiro
> >> Sent: 02 October 2012 18:11
> >> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org; apache-flex@bentbit.com
> >> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
> >>
> >> If that's all you need I would again check out Intellij IDEA Flash
> >>design
> >> viewer plugin, that's exactly what it does, it even allows for
> >>configuring
> >> of attributes though selecting the correct entity is buggy, doing a
> >> "preview" is not
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:04 PM, BentBit Apache-Flex
> >><apache-flex@bentbit.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hello,
> >>>
> >>> I use design view to "preview" elements of my Flash Builder
> >>> project. Previewing makes the design workflow much faster because I can
> >>> see how the project is going to look. I rarely rely on design view to
> >>>make
> >>> actual changes to my projects because it is slow and unreliable.
> >>>
> >>> Would it be possible to develop some sort of a preview that
> >>>would
> >>> function for Apache Flex and Adobe Flex? I am not worried about losing
> >>> design view, just the preview capability.
> >>>
> >>> Best,
> >>>
> >>> -Blake
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Stakesoft [mailto:mail@stakesoft.com]
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:32 AM
> >>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
> >>>
> >>> Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on
> >>> design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not
> >>>having a
> >>> DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a
> >>>disaster
> >>> for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in
> >>>my
> >>> mind all have a DV.
> >>>
> >>> If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less
> >>> advantage over other free software.
> >>>
> >>> Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a
> >>>DV is
> >>> to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will
> >>>just
> >>> about unusable for me.
> >>>
> >>> Nigel
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> >>> Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
> >>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> >>> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> > @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
> >>> > designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
> >>> > that is not worth investing into? You already created those
> >>> > tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
> >>> > community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
> >>> > Adobe history?
> >>> >
> >>> This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a
> >>>Flex
> >>> SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now
> >>>that
> >>> SDKs are coming from Apache.
> >>>
> >>> I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
> >>> probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
> >>> plug-in.
> >>>
> >>> If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I
> >>> can
> >>> try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment
> >>> from
> >>> the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Alex Harui
> >>> Flex SDK Team
> >>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> >>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Charles A. Monteiro
> >> www.monteirosfusion.com
> >> sent from the road
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> >http://www.teotigraphix.com
> >http://blog.teotigraphix.com
> >
>
>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com>.
I'm not that familiar with writing eclipse plugins, but does anyone know
if it is possible to communicate with Eclipse via a socket or some other
local communications mechanism? If that were possible, an AIR-based DV
tool could exchange information with eclipse. While not a built-in, part
of the IDE window, solution, this is might be a good solution.
Peter Ent
On 10/2/12 2:13 PM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>Quoting Stakesoft <ma...@stakesoft.com>:
>
>> That's all very well but (DV aside) FB is far better and we are used
>> to it. It's not very useful to run 2 IDE's alongside otherwise we
>> could use FB4.6 and FB4.7 nor is it a forward step to use a
>> different IDE.
>>
>> Wanting another IDE to get better just because the Adobe one has
>> just got worse is sole destroying, as is spending good time and
>> money on an IDE that's now going to be of little use. I don't want
>> to get into a rant, I'd rather be constructive.
>>
>> Is Apache at least sympathetic towards this, does Adobe care about
>> this. Is there any hope at all?
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>
>Being a committer I can say I totally understand what you are saying
>about DV. I to am a visual person, although I never used DV that much
>since I wrote more AS component type things, I can understand how it
>would be included in design workflow.
>
>The problem I see is just what you said, IDE, which one, don't want to
>switch. Lets say I have the experience to start a project like this.
>What IDE do I target? IDEA and Eclipse are two large IDEs with a huge
>difference in plugin API.
>
>Bam, I'm already dead in my tracks. Maintaining one code base for one
>IDE is one thing but to maintain two, yeah right.
>
>Wait lets do AIR, oh but 50%+ devs would only use an "IDE Plugin", so
>then you only get half support for using a half baked AIR
>implementation.
>
>I see no real solution to this. Now lets add the fact we have to
>incorporate the FlashPlayer in DV, you want dnd, haha that takes the
>difficulty of coding 5 levels higher.
>
>As a developer, I'm sure a lot are not speaking up on this subject
>because our hands are tied, there is really no answer to this.
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: charles.monteiro@gmail.com [mailto:charles.monteiro@gmail.com]
>> On Behalf Of Charles Monteiro
>> Sent: 02 October 2012 18:11
>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org; apache-flex@bentbit.com
>> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>>
>> If that's all you need I would again check out Intellij IDEA Flash
>>design
>> viewer plugin, that's exactly what it does, it even allows for
>>configuring
>> of attributes though selecting the correct entity is buggy, doing a
>> "preview" is not
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:04 PM, BentBit Apache-Flex
>><apache-flex@bentbit.com
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I use design view to "preview" elements of my Flash Builder
>>> project. Previewing makes the design workflow much faster because I can
>>> see how the project is going to look. I rarely rely on design view to
>>>make
>>> actual changes to my projects because it is slow and unreliable.
>>>
>>> Would it be possible to develop some sort of a preview that
>>>would
>>> function for Apache Flex and Adobe Flex? I am not worried about losing
>>> design view, just the preview capability.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> -Blake
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stakesoft [mailto:mail@stakesoft.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:32 AM
>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>>>
>>> Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on
>>> design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not
>>>having a
>>> DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a
>>>disaster
>>> for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in
>>>my
>>> mind all have a DV.
>>>
>>> If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less
>>> advantage over other free software.
>>>
>>> Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a
>>>DV is
>>> to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will
>>>just
>>> about unusable for me.
>>>
>>> Nigel
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>>> Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
>>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
>>> > designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
>>> > that is not worth investing into? You already created those
>>> > tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
>>> > community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
>>> > Adobe history?
>>> >
>>> This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a
>>>Flex
>>> SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now
>>>that
>>> SDKs are coming from Apache.
>>>
>>> I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
>>> probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
>>> plug-in.
>>>
>>> If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I
>>> can
>>> try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment
>>> from
>>> the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alex Harui
>>> Flex SDK Team
>>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Charles A. Monteiro
>> www.monteirosfusion.com
>> sent from the road
>>
>>
>
>--
>Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>http://www.teotigraphix.com
>http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Quoting Stakesoft <ma...@stakesoft.com>:
> That's all very well but (DV aside) FB is far better and we are used
> to it. It's not very useful to run 2 IDE's alongside otherwise we
> could use FB4.6 and FB4.7 nor is it a forward step to use a
> different IDE.
>
> Wanting another IDE to get better just because the Adobe one has
> just got worse is sole destroying, as is spending good time and
> money on an IDE that's now going to be of little use. I don't want
> to get into a rant, I'd rather be constructive.
>
> Is Apache at least sympathetic towards this, does Adobe care about
> this. Is there any hope at all?
>
> Nigel
>
Being a committer I can say I totally understand what you are saying
about DV. I to am a visual person, although I never used DV that much
since I wrote more AS component type things, I can understand how it
would be included in design workflow.
The problem I see is just what you said, IDE, which one, don't want to
switch. Lets say I have the experience to start a project like this.
What IDE do I target? IDEA and Eclipse are two large IDEs with a huge
difference in plugin API.
Bam, I'm already dead in my tracks. Maintaining one code base for one
IDE is one thing but to maintain two, yeah right.
Wait lets do AIR, oh but 50%+ devs would only use an "IDE Plugin", so
then you only get half support for using a half baked AIR
implementation.
I see no real solution to this. Now lets add the fact we have to
incorporate the FlashPlayer in DV, you want dnd, haha that takes the
difficulty of coding 5 levels higher.
As a developer, I'm sure a lot are not speaking up on this subject
because our hands are tied, there is really no answer to this.
Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: charles.monteiro@gmail.com [mailto:charles.monteiro@gmail.com]
> On Behalf Of Charles Monteiro
> Sent: 02 October 2012 18:11
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org; apache-flex@bentbit.com
> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>
> If that's all you need I would again check out Intellij IDEA Flash design
> viewer plugin, that's exactly what it does, it even allows for configuring
> of attributes though selecting the correct entity is buggy, doing a
> "preview" is not
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:04 PM, BentBit Apache-Flex <apache-flex@bentbit.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I use design view to "preview" elements of my Flash Builder
>> project. Previewing makes the design workflow much faster because I can
>> see how the project is going to look. I rarely rely on design view to make
>> actual changes to my projects because it is slow and unreliable.
>>
>> Would it be possible to develop some sort of a preview that would
>> function for Apache Flex and Adobe Flex? I am not worried about losing
>> design view, just the preview capability.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -Blake
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stakesoft [mailto:mail@stakesoft.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:32 AM
>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>>
>> Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on
>> design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not having a
>> DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a disaster
>> for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in my
>> mind all have a DV.
>>
>> If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less
>> advantage over other free software.
>>
>> Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a DV is
>> to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will just
>> about unusable for me.
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>> Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
>> > designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
>> > that is not worth investing into? You already created those
>> > tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
>> > community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
>> > Adobe history?
>> >
>> This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a Flex
>> SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now that
>> SDKs are coming from Apache.
>>
>> I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
>> probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
>> plug-in.
>>
>> If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I
>> can
>> try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment
>> from
>> the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alex Harui
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Charles A. Monteiro
> www.monteirosfusion.com
> sent from the road
>
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by te...@teotigraphix.com.
Quoting Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
> You are welcome to open a JIRA ticket for Apache Flex and try to see if you
> can define requirements in priority order. Remember that this is a
> volunteer organization so you can't just say "replicate DV". What are the
> most important aspects of DV? Is one of them IDE integration? If so, why?
> An AIR DV could certainly launch an ant script to build your changes.
>
Just reiterating on something I said in a previous post to this; If a
project could start, start small with a prototype only doing the
basic. Then slowly add functionality. This would be very important for
an endeavor like a DesignView.
I have written Eclipse plugins before, I have no idea how to write an
IDEA plugin, I looked and saw I would have to learn a very different
framework.
With the new compiler and it's AST and definitions, it would make
something like this a whole lot easier, and I'm speaking from 2 weeks
experience with the code.
I want to mention one more thing here. Acting as a developer of
something like a design view, there is a huge overwhelming fear that
it could lose interest and get abandoned purely out of volunteers
moving, or working on other things. Loosing traction on a project like
this when you spent time developing it and know you could have been
doing something else is always in developers minds.
So add the risk factor as well. For years I have heard Flex developers
say they use it all the time to others saying it was a waste of time
and time should have been spent on the more important features.
Mike
PS On the plus side with an AIR implementation, being written with
Flex would be a boost to the whole project because you would be using
the framework components and creating new ones purely out of the need
for the new functionality. It could almost act as a live garden of
growth for the framework.
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/2/12 10:30 AM, "Stakesoft" <ma...@stakesoft.com> wrote:
> That's all very well but (DV aside) FB is far better and we are used to it.
> It's not very useful to run 2 IDE's alongside otherwise we could use FB4.6 and
> FB4.7 nor is it a forward step to use a different IDE.
I agree. I've been wondering if it is possible to create plugins for both
IDE's that can host a SWF.
>
> Wanting another IDE to get better just because the Adobe one has just got
> worse is sole destroying, as is spending good time and money on an IDE that's
> now going to be of little use. I don't want to get into a rant, I'd rather be
> constructive.
>
> Is Apache at least sympathetic towards this, does Adobe care about this. Is
> there any hope at all?
I would say that Adobe cares, but that doesn't mean that they will commit
resources or donate DV code. Many difficult decisions were made last year,
and I haven't seen any reason to change any of them.
You are welcome to open a JIRA ticket for Apache Flex and try to see if you
can define requirements in priority order. Remember that this is a
volunteer organization so you can't just say "replicate DV". What are the
most important aspects of DV? Is one of them IDE integration? If so, why?
An AIR DV could certainly launch an ant script to build your changes.
>
> Nigel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: charles.monteiro@gmail.com [mailto:charles.monteiro@gmail.com] On Behalf
> Of Charles Monteiro
> Sent: 02 October 2012 18:11
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org; apache-flex@bentbit.com
> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>
> If that's all you need I would again check out Intellij IDEA Flash design
> viewer plugin, that's exactly what it does, it even allows for configuring
> of attributes though selecting the correct entity is buggy, doing a
> "preview" is not
>
> On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:04 PM, BentBit Apache-Flex <apache-flex@bentbit.com
>> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I use design view to "preview" elements of my Flash Builder
>> project. Previewing makes the design workflow much faster because I can
>> see how the project is going to look. I rarely rely on design view to make
>> actual changes to my projects because it is slow and unreliable.
>>
>> Would it be possible to develop some sort of a preview that would
>> function for Apache Flex and Adobe Flex? I am not worried about losing
>> design view, just the preview capability.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> -Blake
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Stakesoft [mailto:mail@stakesoft.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:32 AM
>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>>
>> Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on
>> design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not having a
>> DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a disaster
>> for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in my
>> mind all have a DV.
>>
>> If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less
>> advantage over other free software.
>>
>> Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a DV is
>> to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will just
>> about unusable for me.
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
>> Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
>> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
>>> designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
>>> that is not worth investing into? You already created those
>>> tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
>>> community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
>>> Adobe history?
>>>
>> This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a Flex
>> SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now that
>> SDKs are coming from Apache.
>>
>> I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
>> probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
>> plug-in.
>>
>> If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I
>> can
>> try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment
>> from
>> the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Alex Harui
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems, Inc.
>> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Stakesoft <ma...@stakesoft.com>.
That's all very well but (DV aside) FB is far better and we are used to it. It's not very useful to run 2 IDE's alongside otherwise we could use FB4.6 and FB4.7 nor is it a forward step to use a different IDE.
Wanting another IDE to get better just because the Adobe one has just got worse is sole destroying, as is spending good time and money on an IDE that's now going to be of little use. I don't want to get into a rant, I'd rather be constructive.
Is Apache at least sympathetic towards this, does Adobe care about this. Is there any hope at all?
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: charles.monteiro@gmail.com [mailto:charles.monteiro@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Charles Monteiro
Sent: 02 October 2012 18:11
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org; apache-flex@bentbit.com
Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
If that's all you need I would again check out Intellij IDEA Flash design
viewer plugin, that's exactly what it does, it even allows for configuring
of attributes though selecting the correct entity is buggy, doing a
"preview" is not
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:04 PM, BentBit Apache-Flex <apache-flex@bentbit.com
> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I use design view to "preview" elements of my Flash Builder
> project. Previewing makes the design workflow much faster because I can
> see how the project is going to look. I rarely rely on design view to make
> actual changes to my projects because it is slow and unreliable.
>
> Would it be possible to develop some sort of a preview that would
> function for Apache Flex and Adobe Flex? I am not worried about losing
> design view, just the preview capability.
>
> Best,
>
> -Blake
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stakesoft [mailto:mail@stakesoft.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:32 AM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>
> Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on
> design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not having a
> DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a disaster
> for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in my
> mind all have a DV.
>
> If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less
> advantage over other free software.
>
> Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a DV is
> to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will just
> about unusable for me.
>
> Nigel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
> > designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
> > that is not worth investing into? You already created those
> > tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
> > community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
> > Adobe history?
> >
> This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a Flex
> SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now that
> SDKs are coming from Apache.
>
> I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
> probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
> plug-in.
>
> If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I
> can
> try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment
> from
> the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Charles A. Monteiro
www.monteirosfusion.com
sent from the road
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Charles Monteiro <ch...@monteirosfusion.com>.
If that's all you need I would again check out Intellij IDEA Flash design
viewer plugin, that's exactly what it does, it even allows for configuring
of attributes though selecting the correct entity is buggy, doing a
"preview" is not
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 1:04 PM, BentBit Apache-Flex <apache-flex@bentbit.com
> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I use design view to "preview" elements of my Flash Builder
> project. Previewing makes the design workflow much faster because I can
> see how the project is going to look. I rarely rely on design view to make
> actual changes to my projects because it is slow and unreliable.
>
> Would it be possible to develop some sort of a preview that would
> function for Apache Flex and Adobe Flex? I am not worried about losing
> design view, just the preview capability.
>
> Best,
>
> -Blake
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stakesoft [mailto:mail@stakesoft.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:32 AM
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>
> Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on
> design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not having a
> DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a disaster
> for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in my
> mind all have a DV.
>
> If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less
> advantage over other free software.
>
> Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a DV is
> to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will just
> about unusable for me.
>
> Nigel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
> Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> >
> > @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
> > designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
> > that is not worth investing into? You already created those
> > tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
> > community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
> > Adobe history?
> >
> This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a Flex
> SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now that
> SDKs are coming from Apache.
>
> I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
> probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
> plug-in.
>
> If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I
> can
> try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment
> from
> the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
>
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Charles A. Monteiro
www.monteirosfusion.com
sent from the road
RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by BentBit Apache-Flex <ap...@bentbit.com>.
Hello,
I use design view to "preview" elements of my Flash Builder
project. Previewing makes the design workflow much faster because I can
see how the project is going to look. I rarely rely on design view to make
actual changes to my projects because it is slow and unreliable.
Would it be possible to develop some sort of a preview that would
function for Apache Flex and Adobe Flex? I am not worried about losing
design view, just the preview capability.
Best,
-Blake
-----Original Message-----
From: Stakesoft [mailto:mail@stakesoft.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2012 10:32 AM
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on
design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not having a
DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a disaster
for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in my
mind all have a DV.
If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less
advantage over other free software.
Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a DV is
to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will just
about unusable for me.
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
> designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
> that is not worth investing into? You already created those
> tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
> community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
> Adobe history?
>
This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a Flex
SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now that
SDKs are coming from Apache.
I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
plug-in.
If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I
can
try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment
from
the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Stakesoft <ma...@stakesoft.com>.
Technical issues aside I suspect there a good few of us that rely on design views (and we are not all noobs). Many are supporting not having a DV as they don't use it and that's fine for them but a bit of a disaster for others. There are IDE's with DV's and those without - the best in my mind all have a DV.
If Adobe are not taking care of the SDK or the DV it leaves much less advantage over other free software.
Non DV developers at Adobe please try and understand how important a DV is to the many who use it. I wish 4.7 onwards all the best but it will just about unusable for me.
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Harui [mailto:aharui@adobe.com]
Sent: 02 October 2012 17:12
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
> designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
> that is not worth investing into? You already created those
> tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
> community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
> Adobe history?
>
This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a Flex
SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now that
SDKs are coming from Apache.
I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
plug-in.
If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I can
try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment from
the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Marcos Martinelli Paegle <ma...@hotmail.com>.
I dream of Flex running on a JVM, is possible? That would be really cool ...
> From: aharui@adobe.com
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 09:24:59 -0700
> Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
>
>
>
>
> On 10/2/12 9:21 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Forgot to mention those links about Adobe Brackets [1] [2].
> > So, when seeing this, it seems to be very easy that Adobe
> > loves to collaborate with the HTML5 folks. What about an
> > open GUI designer tool for Apache Flex?
> >
> Yes, that is a project this community could take on, but it won't be led or
> started by Adobe.
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
This whole conversation is really making want to check out what Google
is doing in the UI designer plugin (source code).
Note; This is another reason why this probably won't happen, more than
one IDE, people have love/hate relationships with them all. So who do
you make happy?
I'm sure that is why Peter Ent suggested an AIR app since the
community could use their existing skills and work together in a
unified code base.
Mike
Quoting Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>:
>
>
>
> On 10/2/12 9:21 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Forgot to mention those links about Adobe Brackets [1] [2].
>> So, when seeing this, it seems to be very easy that Adobe
>> loves to collaborate with the HTML5 folks. What about an
>> open GUI designer tool for Apache Flex?
>>
> Yes, that is a project this community could take on, but it won't be led or
> started by Adobe.
>
> --
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/2/12 9:21 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Forgot to mention those links about Adobe Brackets [1] [2].
> So, when seeing this, it seems to be very easy that Adobe
> loves to collaborate with the HTML5 folks. What about an
> open GUI designer tool for Apache Flex?
>
Yes, that is a project this community could take on, but it won't be led or
started by Adobe.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>.
Forgot to mention those links about Adobe Brackets [1] [2].
So, when seeing this, it seems to be very easy that Adobe
loves to collaborate with the HTML5 folks. What about an
open GUI designer tool for Apache Flex?
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xirIHMtpc4c
[2] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/html5/articles/bracket-code-architecture.html
On Oct 2, 2012, at 5:55 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> @Peter Ent ... the missing piece is: Who is working on
> such a design tool right now? There are Apache Flex
> designers and developers on this mailing list that see
> the need to have those tools.
>
>> You know, if I was actually making some type of money from Flex right now I would consider this project [...]
>
>
> As Michael Schmalle correctly pointed out: There are
> probably people on this list that are capable of building
> those GUI designer tools, but, most probably they won't
> have the time and money to work on that.
>
> @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
> designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
> that is not worth investing into? You already created those
> tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
> community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
> Adobe history?
>
> I also doubt, that building such Apache Flex GUI designer
> tools would be hardly manageable by a single person alone.
> Maybe Adobe could consider to open up some of their GUI
> designer tool code on Github and collaborate with the
> Apache Flex community, just like they are doing right
> now with Adobe Brackets [1] !?
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
> [1] https://github.com/adobe/brackets
>
>
>
>
> On Oct 2, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Michael Schmalle wrote:
>
>> I was going to say the exact same thing.
>>
>> I think why people have not said this is because a lot of developers are used to a design view being located "inside" their IDE as with Design View.
>>
>> This is definitely not that hard to do, back in the Flex 2 days I experimented in creating such tools in Flex.
>>
>> Thinking about it, I guess FlashCatalyst "wasn't" in and IDE perse so, the paradigm of an external editor has been around.
>>
>> Seeing as Google's Android design view is decent in Eclipse, I don't see why something couldn't be started in an IDE either.
>>
>> The trick is starting with something SMALL and prototype, get the idea to work and slowly build on. You know, if I was actually making some type of money from Flex right now I would consider this project but, my spare time will be devoted to the compiler and extensions of.
>>
>> Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling that is not using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking about a design inspector. ;-)
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> Quoting Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com>:
>>
>>> This is a good opportunity for [someone in] the Apache Flex community to
>>> develop such a tool. Using Apache Flex, an AIR app would be able to
>>> present UI components rendered correctly, in real-time, and be able to
>>> read and write local files. If Adobe does not contribute UI tools, the
>>> community can make their own. There are many talented people here with the
>>> background to do this. Of course, time and resources are probably the
>>> biggest constraints.
>>>
>>> Peter Ent
>>> Flex SDK Team
>>> Adobe Systems.
>>>
>>> On 10/2/12 6:52 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
>>>>> Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
>>>>> (formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
>>>>> started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the same reason the Spark component set isn't finished and the
>>>> same reason why Flex is now an Apache project and the same reason why
>>>> they axed design view in Flash Builder and the same reason they
>>>> renamed Flex Builder to Flash Builder.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com>.
On 10/2/12 8:55 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
> designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
> that is not worth investing into? You already created those
> tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
> community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
> Adobe history?
>
This has been discussed before. Design View is highly dependent on a Flex
SDK version. It is not practical for Adobe to maintain DV in FB now that
SDKs are coming from Apache.
I think the DV code is flawed for that reason and some others. It is
probably better to simply start over. AFAIK, it is "just" an Eclipse
plug-in.
If figuring out some aspect of the plug-in turns out to be difficult, I can
try to see if there are some pieces we could donate, but the assessment from
the owners of the code is that there isn't much that is re-usable.
--
Alex Harui
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems, Inc.
http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>.
@Peter Ent ... the missing piece is: Who is working on
such a design tool right now? There are Apache Flex
designers and developers on this mailing list that see
the need to have those tools.
> You know, if I was actually making some type of money from Flex right now I would consider this project [...]
As Michael Schmalle correctly pointed out: There are
probably people on this list that are capable of building
those GUI designer tools, but, most probably they won't
have the time and money to work on that.
@Adobe ... what's wrong with continuing building GUI
designer tools for Apache Flex? Is that really something
that is not worth investing into? You already created those
tools. So, why not sharing some of your expertise with the
community, and, not locking your code in the archives of
Adobe history?
I also doubt, that building such Apache Flex GUI designer
tools would be hardly manageable by a single person alone.
Maybe Adobe could consider to open up some of their GUI
designer tool code on Github and collaborate with the
Apache Flex community, just like they are doing right
now with Adobe Brackets [1] !?
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
[1] https://github.com/adobe/brackets
On Oct 2, 2012, at 4:13 PM, Michael Schmalle wrote:
> I was going to say the exact same thing.
>
> I think why people have not said this is because a lot of developers are used to a design view being located "inside" their IDE as with Design View.
>
> This is definitely not that hard to do, back in the Flex 2 days I experimented in creating such tools in Flex.
>
> Thinking about it, I guess FlashCatalyst "wasn't" in and IDE perse so, the paradigm of an external editor has been around.
>
> Seeing as Google's Android design view is decent in Eclipse, I don't see why something couldn't be started in an IDE either.
>
> The trick is starting with something SMALL and prototype, get the idea to work and slowly build on. You know, if I was actually making some type of money from Flex right now I would consider this project but, my spare time will be devoted to the compiler and extensions of.
>
> Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling that is not using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking about a design inspector. ;-)
>
> Mike
>
>
> Quoting Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com>:
>
>> This is a good opportunity for [someone in] the Apache Flex community to
>> develop such a tool. Using Apache Flex, an AIR app would be able to
>> present UI components rendered correctly, in real-time, and be able to
>> read and write local files. If Adobe does not contribute UI tools, the
>> community can make their own. There are many talented people here with the
>> background to do this. Of course, time and resources are probably the
>> biggest constraints.
>>
>> Peter Ent
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems.
>>
>> On 10/2/12 6:52 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
>>>> Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
>>>> (formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
>>>> started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
>>>
>>>
>>> For the same reason the Spark component set isn't finished and the
>>> same reason why Flex is now an Apache project and the same reason why
>>> they axed design view in Flash Builder and the same reason they
>>> renamed Flex Builder to Flash Builder.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Quoting Charles Monteiro <ch...@monteirosfusion.com>:
>>
>> Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling that is not
>> using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking about a design
>> inspector. ;-)Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling
>> that is not using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking
>> about a design inspector. ;-)
>
>
>
> why is that compelling ? If I wanted to compile to JS in general why not
> use something like coffee-script that is elegant or use Appcelerator which
> has all the tooling there. AS -> JS , to me just seems like a way of
> porting away from AS.
>
> The reason why I care about Flex is because AIR runs on all the platforms I
> care about and secondarily yes, in general I like the framework.
>
> -Charles
>
It's not compelling, anyway I don't want to learn coffescript or use
Appcelerator. I don't even design in html/js.
Don't forget why a lot of people work on opensource, it's fun and a
hobby. I like the AS3 language, that is enough for me to dream of
other ways the language could be used.
If I'm totally wrong about this, who really cares? I love compilers,
if someone dreams up a way to have fun with a crosscompiler, I'm going
to work on it for fun.
I detached my business from Adobe and the Flash Player/AIR for
specific reasons, I did not detach myself from the AS language or MXML
for that matter.
PS I think compile targets is what I am talking about here. I don't
want to step on your opinion either.
Mike
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Charles Monteiro <ch...@monteirosfusion.com>.
>
> Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling that is not
> using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking about a design
> inspector. ;-)Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling
> that is not using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking
> about a design inspector. ;-)
why is that compelling ? If I wanted to compile to JS in general why not
use something like coffee-script that is elegant or use Appcelerator which
has all the tooling there. AS -> JS , to me just seems like a way of
porting away from AS.
The reason why I care about Flex is because AIR runs on all the platforms I
care about and secondarily yes, in general I like the framework.
-Charles
On Tue, Oct 2, 2012 at 10:13 AM, Michael Schmalle
<ap...@teotigraphix.com>wrote:
> I was going to say the exact same thing.
>
> I think why people have not said this is because a lot of developers are
> used to a design view being located "inside" their IDE as with Design View.
>
> This is definitely not that hard to do, back in the Flex 2 days I
> experimented in creating such tools in Flex.
>
> Thinking about it, I guess FlashCatalyst "wasn't" in and IDE perse so, the
> paradigm of an external editor has been around.
>
> Seeing as Google's Android design view is decent in Eclipse, I don't see
> why something couldn't be started in an IDE either.
>
> The trick is starting with something SMALL and prototype, get the idea to
> work and slowly build on. You know, if I was actually making some type of
> money from Flex right now I would consider this project but, my spare time
> will be devoted to the compiler and extensions of.
>
> Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling that is not
>> using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking about a design
>> inspector. ;-)
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Quoting Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com>:
>
> This is a good opportunity for [someone in] the Apache Flex community to
>> develop such a tool. Using Apache Flex, an AIR app would be able to
>> present UI components rendered correctly, in real-time, and be able to
>> read and write local files. If Adobe does not contribute UI tools, the
>> community can make their own. There are many talented people here with the
>> background to do this. Of course, time and resources are probably the
>> biggest constraints.
>>
>> Peter Ent
>> Flex SDK Team
>> Adobe Systems.
>>
>> On 10/2/12 6:52 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>>
>> Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
>>>> Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
>>>> (formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
>>>> started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For the same reason the Spark component set isn't finished and the
>>> same reason why Flex is now an Apache project and the same reason why
>>> they axed design view in Flash Builder and the same reason they
>>> renamed Flex Builder to Flash Builder.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> --
> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
> http://www.teotigraphix.com
> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
>
--
Charles A. Monteiro
www.monteirosfusion.com
sent from the road
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
I was going to say the exact same thing.
I think why people have not said this is because a lot of developers
are used to a design view being located "inside" their IDE as with
Design View.
This is definitely not that hard to do, back in the Flex 2 days I
experimented in creating such tools in Flex.
Thinking about it, I guess FlashCatalyst "wasn't" in and IDE perse so,
the paradigm of an external editor has been around.
Seeing as Google's Android design view is decent in Eclipse, I don't
see why something couldn't be started in an IDE either.
The trick is starting with something SMALL and prototype, get the idea
to work and slowly build on. You know, if I was actually making some
type of money from Flex right now I would consider this project but,
my spare time will be devoted to the compiler and extensions of.
Now if we get some revolution going with AS -> JS compiling that is
not using the Flash API, then it's time to really start thinking about
a design inspector. ;-)
Mike
Quoting Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com>:
> This is a good opportunity for [someone in] the Apache Flex community to
> develop such a tool. Using Apache Flex, an AIR app would be able to
> present UI components rendered correctly, in real-time, and be able to
> read and write local files. If Adobe does not contribute UI tools, the
> community can make their own. There are many talented people here with the
> background to do this. Of course, time and resources are probably the
> biggest constraints.
>
> Peter Ent
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems.
>
> On 10/2/12 6:52 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>
>> Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
>>> Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
>>> (formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
>>> started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
>>
>>
>> For the same reason the Spark component set isn't finished and the
>> same reason why Flex is now an Apache project and the same reason why
>> they axed design view in Flash Builder and the same reason they
>> renamed Flex Builder to Flash Builder.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>> http://www.teotigraphix.com
>> http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>>
>
>
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Peter Ent <pe...@adobe.com>.
This is a good opportunity for [someone in] the Apache Flex community to
develop such a tool. Using Apache Flex, an AIR app would be able to
present UI components rendered correctly, in real-time, and be able to
read and write local files. If Adobe does not contribute UI tools, the
community can make their own. There are many talented people here with the
background to do this. Of course, time and resources are probably the
biggest constraints.
Peter Ent
Flex SDK Team
Adobe Systems.
On 10/2/12 6:52 AM, "Michael Schmalle" <ap...@teotigraphix.com> wrote:
>Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
>> Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
>> (formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
>> started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
>
>
>For the same reason the Spark component set isn't finished and the
>same reason why Flex is now an Apache project and the same reason why
>they axed design view in Flash Builder and the same reason they
>renamed Flex Builder to Flash Builder.
>
>
>--
>Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
>http://www.teotigraphix.com
>http://blog.teotigraphix.com
>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Michael Schmalle <ap...@teotigraphix.com>.
Quoting Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>:
> Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
> Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
> (formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
> started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
For the same reason the Spark component set isn't finished and the
same reason why Flex is now an Apache project and the same reason why
they axed design view in Flash Builder and the same reason they
renamed Flex Builder to Flash Builder.
--
Michael Schmalle - Teoti Graphix, LLC
http://www.teotigraphix.com
http://blog.teotigraphix.com
RE: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Stakesoft <ma...@stakesoft.com>.
Anything visual to be able to design the UI is better than none, I'll sign anything to support the return of a DV
Nigel
-----Original Message-----
From: Sebastian Mohr [mailto:masuland@gmail.com]
Sent: 02 October 2012 11:46
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
(formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
If you would want to create a petition for the "Flash Builder 4.5 MXML
Design View" or the "Flex Builder 3 CSS Design View" only, then,
please go for it, and, let us know. I would sign that, too!
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
[1] http://franto.com/thermo-on-adobe-labs/
On Oct 2, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Marcos Martinelli Paegle wrote:
> Don't have a petition for flash builder 4.x?
>
> Enviado via iPhone
>
> Em 02/10/2012, às 06:01, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Now, that we have seen the brave, new world of HTML5 designer tools formally
>> announced by Adobe [1] [2], I wonder: What is the current state of designer tools
>> for Apache Flex? I remember that there had been discussions about donating or
>> selling those past designer tools like Flash Catalyst CS5.5 [3] [4], Flash Builder 4.5
>> MXML Design View [5] [6] and Flex Builder 3 CSS Design View [7].
>>
>> For the moment, I have the impression, that we are stuck into a world of
>> delusion until Adobe has caught their wild gone UI horses again. Are there
>> any news that Adobe or Spoon can share on this mailing list?
>>
>> p.s. If you agree on what I have written here, please sign this petition [8].
>>
>>
>> Sincerely Yours,
>>
>> Sebastian Mohr
>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>>
>> [1] http://html.adobe.com/
>> [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efWKWxNu4zY
>> [3] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/introducing-flashcatalyst-cs55.html
>> [4] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/get_started_with_flash_catalyst.html
>> [5] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/whatsnew-flashbuilder-45.html
>> [6] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/design-view-extensions-faq.html
>> [7] http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/programming/flex/9780321591098/styling/ch04lev1sec7
>> [8] http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-flash-catalyst-must-survive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Sebastian Mohr <ma...@gmail.com>.
Nope ... I am seeing Flash Catalyst as being the representation for
Adobe's work on the Spark-Component model, FXG and Flash Catalyst
(formerly codenamed Thermo) with the Designer-Developer workflow
started in 2007 [1]. For whatever reasons it took ages to finish it.
If you would want to create a petition for the "Flash Builder 4.5 MXML
Design View" or the "Flex Builder 3 CSS Design View" only, then,
please go for it, and, let us know. I would sign that, too!
Sincerely Yours,
Sebastian Mohr
Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
Interaction Designer & Musician
http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
[1] http://franto.com/thermo-on-adobe-labs/
On Oct 2, 2012, at 12:15 PM, Marcos Martinelli Paegle wrote:
> Don't have a petition for flash builder 4.x?
>
> Enviado via iPhone
>
> Em 02/10/2012, às 06:01, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> escreveu:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Now, that we have seen the brave, new world of HTML5 designer tools formally
>> announced by Adobe [1] [2], I wonder: What is the current state of designer tools
>> for Apache Flex? I remember that there had been discussions about donating or
>> selling those past designer tools like Flash Catalyst CS5.5 [3] [4], Flash Builder 4.5
>> MXML Design View [5] [6] and Flex Builder 3 CSS Design View [7].
>>
>> For the moment, I have the impression, that we are stuck into a world of
>> delusion until Adobe has caught their wild gone UI horses again. Are there
>> any news that Adobe or Spoon can share on this mailing list?
>>
>> p.s. If you agree on what I have written here, please sign this petition [8].
>>
>>
>> Sincerely Yours,
>>
>> Sebastian Mohr
>> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
>> Interaction Designer & Musician
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>>
>> [1] http://html.adobe.com/
>> [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efWKWxNu4zY
>> [3] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/introducing-flashcatalyst-cs55.html
>> [4] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/get_started_with_flash_catalyst.html
>> [5] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/whatsnew-flashbuilder-45.html
>> [6] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/design-view-extensions-faq.html
>> [7] http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/programming/flex/9780321591098/styling/ch04lev1sec7
>> [8] http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-flash-catalyst-must-survive
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Re: Apache Flex GUI Designer tools
Posted by Marcos Martinelli Paegle <ma...@hotmail.com>.
Don't have a petition for flash builder 4.x?
Enviado via iPhone
Em 02/10/2012, às 06:01, "Sebastian Mohr" <ma...@gmail.com> escreveu:
> Dear all,
>
> Now, that we have seen the brave, new world of HTML5 designer tools formally
> announced by Adobe [1] [2], I wonder: What is the current state of designer tools
> for Apache Flex? I remember that there had been discussions about donating or
> selling those past designer tools like Flash Catalyst CS5.5 [3] [4], Flash Builder 4.5
> MXML Design View [5] [6] and Flex Builder 3 CSS Design View [7].
>
> For the moment, I have the impression, that we are stuck into a world of
> delusion until Adobe has caught their wild gone UI horses again. Are there
> any news that Adobe or Spoon can share on this mailing list?
>
> p.s. If you agree on what I have written here, please sign this petition [8].
>
>
> Sincerely Yours,
>
> Sebastian Mohr
> Apache Flex Developer (PPMC),
> Interaction Designer & Musician
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/masuland
>
> [1] http://html.adobe.com/
> [2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efWKWxNu4zY
> [3] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/introducing-flashcatalyst-cs55.html
> [4] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flashcatalyst/articles/get_started_with_flash_catalyst.html
> [5] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/whatsnew-flashbuilder-45.html
> [6] http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash-builder/articles/design-view-extensions-faq.html
> [7] http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/programming/flex/9780321591098/styling/ch04lev1sec7
> [8] http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-flash-catalyst-must-survive
>
>
>
>
>
>