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Posted to dev@devicemap.apache.org by Reza <re...@yahoo.com.INVALID> on 2014/07/09 16:36:04 UTC
Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
Why is the legacy ODDR java client still in our repo?
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/
Do we plan on supporting it? If so, who will support it? Did I not rewrite the client last year because of all of the issues this legacy client has.
Do you (we) plan on re-releasing the legacy ODDR client as well? That would mean we now have 2 java clients...
Also, you checked in the w3c jar here:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/lib/
Once again, what is the point of trying to bring this old client back from the dead? I will investigate what is needed to get w3c compatibility into the new client. Checking this old client into our repo with the w3c jar is likely not needed...
________________________________
From: Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
To: "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <de...@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:25 AM
Subject: Re: DeviceMap data and java client 1.0.0 release review ready
We don't rely on the W3C JAR to be on Maven repo. The only slight inconvenience (though the "addjars-maven-plugin" explains well, how this could be done on a POM level for multiple modules, have not tried that one yet) could be having to keep the tiny W3C JAR both in "Client" and "SimpleDDR", but the issue of using the JAR in its binary form (that's how W3C provides it) is solved
If you can explore how W3C or any of the old WG members could still put that to MavenCentral, more than just the DeviceMap project would welcome (otherwise the guy who put it to GitHub would never have bothered) but it is not a showstopper for 1.0.
Werner
Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
You forget, that every single "Data" contribution (and until someone
provides a proper Web service or process to do it here, it will remain the
ONLY contribution[?]) comes from OpenDDR with my initial contribution. The
"alternate" client uses this file, otherwise it would have no data
whatsoever, so I guess that explains what I and OpenDDR provided here.
Without data the best API is worth crap[?]
Unlike the "new client" the OpenDDR based filter also works out of the box
from here:
http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/contrib/web/webfilter/
Towards a 1.0.0 release the web servlets, JSP, Spring or whatever you chose
for a demo application should match the API and work out of the box, at
least based on som manual steps.
The only example you provided for the 1.0.0 client is on "rezasoft", which
is not a proper SVN repo of Apache AFAIK, so could you please migrate that
to the "example" root under the trunk or another appropriate place?
Except for the prior place (you'll notice, the last improvements happened 2
weeks ago, not 2 years, and the "contrib" sources always worked since the
initial contribution[?]) they were always 1.0 ready and still are. So the
"new client" is an alternate way to access the resources OpenDDR donated,
but it's not W3C compliant.
If Eberhard's .NET client is, then the biggest distraction for people is
that they neither have a working example web application to test this
(having some tomcat on apache.org is nice, but the real value is to use it
in THEIR site[?]) nor a consistent API compared to the .NET platform.
Werner
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 5:26 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> You did not answer #2 or #3.
>
> So is this project the best place to support the legacy oddr java client?
> Would it not be better for you to support the ODDR effort back at the oddr
> github page: https://github.com/OpenDDRdotORG/OpenDDR-Java.
>
> Its been inactive for 2 years. So as to why you are now pushing oddr front
> and center of the DeviceMap project is puzzling... Why are you not focusing
> on our 1.0.0 release and the DeviceMap project?
>
> Why are you on this project...? What value are you adding here? This is a
> huge distraction. You are constantly breaking the java client codebase
> which is another big waste of my time. I just dont see the value of any of
> this.
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <
> devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:11 AM
>
> *Subject:* Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
>
> Equally important is, how the .NET and Java clients are similar or not?
>
> if Eberhard's .NET client supports W3C DDR Specs then the Java API also
> should. And
>
> As for 1) the answer is, I am also currently the only active OpenDDR
> contributor, so what I'm allowed and supposed to do with OpenDDR Data
> (contribute into this project as a contributor to both) I also can and will
> do in case of the Java API.
>
> Werner
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> ok, lets try this again, please answer these questions:
>
> 1) Do we plan on supporting the legacy openddr java client? If so, who
> will support it?
>
> 2) Do we plan on re-releasing the legacy openddr java client?
>
> 3) If we support and release the legacy openddr java client (your answer
> to #1 and #2 is yes), what is the transition plan to get these legacy users
> off openddr and onto the devicemap client? Or no plan, we support both
> openddr users and devicemap users?
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <
> devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:45 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
>
> As mentioned and discussed with Bertrand in the other thread, myriads of
> Apache projects, see Tomcat, etc. use "lib" folders for dependencies, JSP,
> CSS, etc.
> The W3C license is among the ones supported by ASF, so using the lib in a
> downstream implementation is perfectly fine.
>
> The relation between the "old" and "new" client are a bit like JSP vs.
> JSF. Both are Java EE standards allowing you to accomplish the same thing,
> but believe it or not, the current ThoughtWorks Radar still has JSF on
> "Hold" (explained as "widely adopted but we still feel it's a bit immature"
> )
>
> The same applies to the "new" client I'm afraid, especially with regards
> to W3C compatibility. Many big sites and projects of various sizes use
> OpenDDR now. So unless you offer them a 100% compatible Drop-in-replacement
> in the "new" client, that is not usable to them in existing code without
> rewriting the whole application.
>
> If we want to abandon and ignore these users and leave them with the
> existing OpenDDR project rather than offering a "bridge" (and chance to
> eventually migrate to the new one) that could mean leaving Simple DDR, but
> I don't know if we want to do that.
>
> Bertrand, WDYT?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> Why is the legacy ODDR java client still in our repo?
>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/
>
> Do we plan on supporting it? If so, who will support it? Did I not rewrite
> the client last year because of all of the issues this legacy client has.
>
> Do you (we) plan on re-releasing the legacy ODDR client as well? That
> would mean we now have 2 java clients...
>
> Also, you checked in the w3c jar here:
>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/lib/
>
> Once again, what is the point of trying to bring this old client back from
> the dead? I will investigate what is needed to get w3c compatibility into
> the new client. Checking this old client into our repo with the w3c jar is
> likely not needed...
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <
> devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:25 AM
> *Subject:* Re: DeviceMap data and java client 1.0.0 release review ready
>
> We don't rely on the W3C JAR to be on Maven repo. The only slight
> inconvenience (though the "addjars-maven-plugin" explains well, how this
> could be done on a POM level for multiple modules, have not tried that one
> yet) could be having to keep the tiny W3C JAR both in "Client" and
> "SimpleDDR", but the issue of using the JAR in its binary form (that's how
> W3C provides it) is solved
>
> If you can explore how W3C or any of the old WG members could still put
> that to MavenCentral, more than just the DeviceMap project would welcome
> (otherwise the guy who put it to GitHub would never have bothered) but it
> is not a showstopper for 1.0.
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
Posted by Reza <re...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.
You did not answer #2 or #3.
So is this project the best place to support the legacy oddr java client? Would it not be better for you to support the ODDR effort back at the oddr github page: https://github.com/OpenDDRdotORG/OpenDDR-Java.
Its been inactive for 2 years. So as to why you are now pushing oddr front and center of the DeviceMap project is puzzling... Why are you not focusing on our 1.0.0 release and the DeviceMap project?
Why are you on this project...? What value are you adding here? This is a huge distraction. You are constantly breaking the java client codebase which is another big waste of my time. I just dont see the value of any of this.
________________________________
From: Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
To: "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <de...@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
Equally important is, how the .NET and Java clients are similar or not?
if Eberhard's .NET client supports W3C DDR Specs then the Java API also should. And
As for 1) the answer is, I am also currently the only active OpenDDR contributor, so what I'm allowed and supposed to do with OpenDDR Data (contribute into this project as a contributor to both) I also can and will do in case of the Java API.
Werner
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
ok, lets try this again, please answer these questions:
>
>
>1) Do we plan on supporting the legacy openddr java client? If so, who will support it?
>
>
>2) Do we plan on re-releasing the legacy openddr java client?
>
>
>3) If we support and release the legacy openddr java client (your answer to #1 and #2 is yes), what is the transition plan to get these legacy users off openddr and onto the devicemap client? Or no plan, we support both openddr users and devicemap users?
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
>To: "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <de...@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:45 AM
>Subject: Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
>
>
>
>As mentioned and discussed with Bertrand in the other thread, myriads of Apache projects, see Tomcat, etc. use "lib" folders for dependencies, JSP, CSS, etc.
>The W3C license is among the ones supported by ASF, so using the lib in a downstream implementation is perfectly fine.
>
>
>The relation between the "old" and "new" client are a bit like JSP vs. JSF. Both are Java EE standards allowing you to accomplish the same thing, but believe it or not, the current ThoughtWorks Radar still has JSF on "Hold" (explained as "widely adopted but we still feel it's a bit immature")
>
>
>The same applies to the "new" client I'm afraid, especially with regards to W3C compatibility. Many big sites and projects of various sizes use OpenDDR now. So unless you offer them a 100% compatible Drop-in-replacement in the "new" client, that is not usable to them in existing code without rewriting the whole application.
>
>
>If we want to abandon and ignore these users and leave them with the existing OpenDDR project rather than offering a "bridge" (and chance to eventually migrate to the new one) that could mean leaving Simple DDR, but I don't know if we want to do that.
>
>
>Bertrand, WDYT?
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>Why is the legacy ODDR java client still in our repo?
>>
>>
>>http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/
>>
>>
>>
>>Do we plan on supporting it? If so, who will support it? Did I not rewrite the client last year because of all of the issues this legacy client has.
>>
>>
>>Do you (we) plan on re-releasing the legacy ODDR client as well? That would mean we now have 2 java clients...
>>
>>
>>Also, you checked in the w3c jar here:
>>
>>
>>http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/lib/
>>
>>
>>
>>Once again, what is the point of trying to bring this old client back from the dead? I will investigate what is needed to get w3c compatibility into the new client. Checking this old client into our repo with the w3c jar is likely not needed...
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
>>To: "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <de...@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
>>Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:25 AM
>>Subject: Re: DeviceMap data and java client 1.0.0 release review ready
>>
>>
>>
>>We don't rely on the W3C JAR to be on Maven repo. The only slight inconvenience (though the "addjars-maven-plugin" explains well, how this could be done on a POM level for multiple modules, have not tried that one yet) could be having to keep the tiny W3C JAR both in "Client" and "SimpleDDR", but the issue of using the JAR in its binary form (that's how W3C provides it) is solved
>>
>>
>>If you can explore how W3C or any of the old WG members could still put that to MavenCentral, more than just the DeviceMap project would welcome (otherwise the guy who put it to GitHub would never have bothered) but it is not a showstopper for 1.0.
>>
>>
>>Werner
>>
>
>
>
Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
Equally important is, how the .NET and Java clients are similar or not?
if Eberhard's .NET client supports W3C DDR Specs then the Java API also
should. And
As for 1) the answer is, I am also currently the only active OpenDDR
contributor, so what I'm allowed and supposed to do with OpenDDR Data
(contribute into this project as a contributor to both) I also can and will
do in case of the Java API.
Werner
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> ok, lets try this again, please answer these questions:
>
> 1) Do we plan on supporting the legacy openddr java client? If so, who
> will support it?
>
> 2) Do we plan on re-releasing the legacy openddr java client?
>
> 3) If we support and release the legacy openddr java client (your answer
> to #1 and #2 is yes), what is the transition plan to get these legacy users
> off openddr and onto the devicemap client? Or no plan, we support both
> openddr users and devicemap users?
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <
> devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:45 AM
> *Subject:* Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
>
> As mentioned and discussed with Bertrand in the other thread, myriads of
> Apache projects, see Tomcat, etc. use "lib" folders for dependencies, JSP,
> CSS, etc.
> The W3C license is among the ones supported by ASF, so using the lib in a
> downstream implementation is perfectly fine.
>
> The relation between the "old" and "new" client are a bit like JSP vs.
> JSF. Both are Java EE standards allowing you to accomplish the same thing,
> but believe it or not, the current ThoughtWorks Radar still has JSF on
> "Hold" (explained as "widely adopted but we still feel it's a bit immature"
> )
>
> The same applies to the "new" client I'm afraid, especially with regards
> to W3C compatibility. Many big sites and projects of various sizes use
> OpenDDR now. So unless you offer them a 100% compatible Drop-in-replacement
> in the "new" client, that is not usable to them in existing code without
> rewriting the whole application.
>
> If we want to abandon and ignore these users and leave them with the
> existing OpenDDR project rather than offering a "bridge" (and chance to
> eventually migrate to the new one) that could mean leaving Simple DDR, but
> I don't know if we want to do that.
>
> Bertrand, WDYT?
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid>
> wrote:
>
> Why is the legacy ODDR java client still in our repo?
>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/
>
> Do we plan on supporting it? If so, who will support it? Did I not rewrite
> the client last year because of all of the issues this legacy client has.
>
> Do you (we) plan on re-releasing the legacy ODDR client as well? That
> would mean we now have 2 java clients...
>
> Also, you checked in the w3c jar here:
>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/lib/
>
> Once again, what is the point of trying to bring this old client back from
> the dead? I will investigate what is needed to get w3c compatibility into
> the new client. Checking this old client into our repo with the w3c jar is
> likely not needed...
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <
> devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:25 AM
> *Subject:* Re: DeviceMap data and java client 1.0.0 release review ready
>
> We don't rely on the W3C JAR to be on Maven repo. The only slight
> inconvenience (though the "addjars-maven-plugin" explains well, how this
> could be done on a POM level for multiple modules, have not tried that one
> yet) could be having to keep the tiny W3C JAR both in "Client" and
> "SimpleDDR", but the issue of using the JAR in its binary form (that's how
> W3C provides it) is solved
>
> If you can explore how W3C or any of the old WG members could still put
> that to MavenCentral, more than just the DeviceMap project would welcome
> (otherwise the guy who put it to GitHub would never have bothered) but it
> is not a showstopper for 1.0.
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
Posted by Reza <re...@yahoo.com.INVALID>.
ok, lets try this again, please answer these questions:
1) Do we plan on supporting the legacy openddr java client? If so, who will support it?
2) Do we plan on re-releasing the legacy openddr java client?
3) If we support and release the legacy openddr java client (your answer to #1 and #2 is yes), what is the transition plan to get these legacy users off openddr and onto the devicemap client? Or no plan, we support both openddr users and devicemap users?
________________________________
From: Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
To: "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <de...@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
As mentioned and discussed with Bertrand in the other thread, myriads of Apache projects, see Tomcat, etc. use "lib" folders for dependencies, JSP, CSS, etc.
The W3C license is among the ones supported by ASF, so using the lib in a downstream implementation is perfectly fine.
The relation between the "old" and "new" client are a bit like JSP vs. JSF. Both are Java EE standards allowing you to accomplish the same thing, but believe it or not, the current ThoughtWorks Radar still has JSF on "Hold" (explained as "widely adopted but we still feel it's a bit immature")
The same applies to the "new" client I'm afraid, especially with regards to W3C compatibility. Many big sites and projects of various sizes use OpenDDR now. So unless you offer them a 100% compatible Drop-in-replacement in the "new" client, that is not usable to them in existing code without rewriting the whole application.
If we want to abandon and ignore these users and leave them with the existing OpenDDR project rather than offering a "bridge" (and chance to eventually migrate to the new one) that could mean leaving Simple DDR, but I don't know if we want to do that.
Bertrand, WDYT?
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Why is the legacy ODDR java client still in our repo?
>
>
>http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/
>
>
>
>Do we plan on supporting it? If so, who will support it? Did I not rewrite the client last year because of all of the issues this legacy client has.
>
>
>Do you (we) plan on re-releasing the legacy ODDR client as well? That would mean we now have 2 java clients...
>
>
>Also, you checked in the w3c jar here:
>
>
>http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/lib/
>
>
>
>Once again, what is the point of trying to bring this old client back from the dead? I will investigate what is needed to get w3c compatibility into the new client. Checking this old client into our repo with the w3c jar is likely not needed...
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
>To: "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <de...@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:25 AM
>Subject: Re: DeviceMap data and java client 1.0.0 release review ready
>
>
>
>We don't rely on the W3C JAR to be on Maven repo. The only slight inconvenience (though the "addjars-maven-plugin" explains well, how this could be done on a POM level for multiple modules, have not tried that one yet) could be having to keep the tiny W3C JAR both in "Client" and "SimpleDDR", but the issue of using the JAR in its binary form (that's how W3C provides it) is solved
>
>
>If you can explore how W3C or any of the old WG members could still put that to MavenCentral, more than just the DeviceMap project would welcome (otherwise the guy who put it to GitHub would never have bothered) but it is not a showstopper for 1.0.
>
>
>Werner
>
Re: Legacy ODDR java client and w3c jar in our repo
Posted by Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>.
As mentioned and discussed with Bertrand in the other thread, myriads of
Apache projects, see Tomcat, etc. use "lib" folders for dependencies, JSP,
CSS, etc.
The W3C license is among the ones supported by ASF, so using the lib in a
downstream implementation is perfectly fine.
The relation between the "old" and "new" client are a bit like JSP vs. JSF.
Both are Java EE standards allowing you to accomplish the same thing, but
believe it or not, the current ThoughtWorks Radar still has JSF on "Hold"
(explained as "widely adopted but we still feel it's a bit immature"[?])
The same applies to the "new" client I'm afraid, especially with regards to
W3C compatibility. Many big sites and projects of various sizes use OpenDDR
now. So unless you offer them a 100% compatible Drop-in-replacement in the
"new" client, that is not usable to them in existing code without rewriting
the whole application.
If we want to abandon and ignore these users and leave them with the
existing OpenDDR project rather than offering a "bridge" (and chance to
eventually migrate to the new one) that could mean leaving Simple DDR, but
I don't know if we want to do that.
Bertrand, WDYT?
On Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Reza <re...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Why is the legacy ODDR java client still in our repo?
>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/
>
> Do we plan on supporting it? If so, who will support it? Did I not rewrite
> the client last year because of all of the issues this legacy client has.
>
> Do you (we) plan on re-releasing the legacy ODDR client as well? That
> would mean we now have 2 java clients...
>
> Also, you checked in the w3c jar here:
>
>
> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/devicemap/trunk/devicemap/java/simpleddr/lib/
>
> Once again, what is the point of trying to bring this old client back from
> the dead? I will investigate what is needed to get w3c compatibility into
> the new client. Checking this old client into our repo with the w3c jar is
> likely not needed...
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Werner Keil <we...@gmail.com>
> *To:* "devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org" <
> devicemap-dev@incubator.apache.org>; Reza <re...@yahoo.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 9, 2014 10:25 AM
> *Subject:* Re: DeviceMap data and java client 1.0.0 release review ready
>
> We don't rely on the W3C JAR to be on Maven repo. The only slight
> inconvenience (though the "addjars-maven-plugin" explains well, how this
> could be done on a POM level for multiple modules, have not tried that one
> yet) could be having to keep the tiny W3C JAR both in "Client" and
> "SimpleDDR", but the issue of using the JAR in its binary form (that's how
> W3C provides it) is solved
>
> If you can explore how W3C or any of the old WG members could still put
> that to MavenCentral, more than just the DeviceMap project would welcome
> (otherwise the guy who put it to GitHub would never have bothered) but it
> is not a showstopper for 1.0.
>
> Werner
>
>