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Posted to dev@lenya.apache.org by Jörn Nettingsmeier <po...@uni-duisburg-essen.de> on 2006/10/01 14:55:23 UTC
do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
hi everyone!
i just found out about the method
String[] getTemplateIds
in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
my first guess was that this method automatically walks the inheritance
tree, returning parent, grandparent, etc. as an array of strings, but it
turns out it doesn't.
is this dead code? or should i make provisions for multiple inheritance
whenever i access the getTemplateIds information?
regards,
jörn
--
"It's sad to behold how lately the wonderful English language has,
in the hands of corporate executives and marketing experts, re-
adjusted its prospective itinerary towards mythical subterranean
realms of discomfort, leveraging traditional woven containment
devices."
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier, EDV-Administrator
Institut für Politikwissenschaft
Universität Duisburg-Essen, Standort Duisburg
Mail: pol-admin@uni-due.de, Telefon: 0203/379-2736
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Richard Frovarp <Ri...@sendit.nodak.edu>.
Doug Chestnut wrote:
>
>
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>
>>> hi everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>> i just found out about the method
>>> String[] getTemplateIds
>>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>>
>>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>>
>>
>> Actually it should work
>> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>>
>> But this is of course subject to discussion.
>> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
> For environments with many publications (university) it is very
> valuable as the diagram at the top of this page shows:
> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
>
>
>
> I use the default pub as a template for my own generic pub, then use
> my generic pub as a template for my pubs in production. This way I
> can utilize new functionality as it develops in the default pub,
> override functionality/design for all my pubs, and customize
> functionality for specific publications.
>
> I can make due without it (multiple inheritance) but it would be a
> bummer.
>
> --Doug
>
When I hear multiple inheritance, I think of two different root objects,
like what is possible in C++. Inheritance up through a tree is
definitely an important feature to have, but is not what I would
consider multiple inheritance. I too make use of inheritance up through
a tree.
Richard
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Jörn Nettingsmeier <po...@uni-duisburg-essen.de>.
Doug Chestnut wrote:
>
>
> Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
>> Doug Chestnut wrote:
>>
>>> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>>>
>>>>> hi everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i just found out about the method
>>>>> String[] getTemplateIds
>>>>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>>>>
>>>>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Actually it should work
>>>> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>>>>
>>>> But this is of course subject to discussion.
>>>> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
>>
>> >
>>
>>> For environments with many publications (university) it is very
>>> valuable as the diagram at the top of this page shows:
>>> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I use the default pub as a template for my own generic pub, then use
>>> my generic pub as a template for my pubs in production. This way I
>>> can utilize new functionality as it develops in the default pub,
>>> override functionality/design for all my pubs, and customize
>>> functionality for specific publications.
>>>
>>> I can make due without it (multiple inheritance) but it would be a
>>> bummer.
>>
>>
>> i think we use the term differently.
>> of course i want to keep the ability to have
>> C inherits from B inherits from A
>> (inheritance a la java)
> Cool
>>
>> what i don't want is
>> C inherits from both B and A, where A and B are unrelated.
>> (inheritance with mixins)
> I didn't realize this was implemented. Hmm, nothing I currently use ;)
neither did i until i saw that getTemplateIds returns String[]. it might
also be a list of parent, grandparent etc, but my tests showed it's not.
anyway, this seems to be the only place in the code where such a feature
is hinted at... probably a mistake.
regards,
jörn
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Doug Chestnut <dh...@virginia.edu>.
Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> Doug Chestnut wrote:
>
>> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>
>>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>>
>>>> hi everyone!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i just found out about the method
>>>> String[] getTemplateIds
>>>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>>>
>>>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Actually it should work
>>> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>>>
>>> But this is of course subject to discussion.
>>> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
>
> >
>
>> For environments with many publications (university) it is very
>> valuable as the diagram at the top of this page shows:
>> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>> I use the default pub as a template for my own generic pub, then use
>> my generic pub as a template for my pubs in production. This way I
>> can utilize new functionality as it develops in the default pub,
>> override functionality/design for all my pubs, and customize
>> functionality for specific publications.
>>
>> I can make due without it (multiple inheritance) but it would be a
>> bummer.
>
>
> i think we use the term differently.
> of course i want to keep the ability to have
> C inherits from B inherits from A
> (inheritance a la java)
Cool
>
> what i don't want is
> C inherits from both B and A, where A and B are unrelated.
> (inheritance with mixins)
I didn't realize this was implemented. Hmm, nothing I currently use ;)
--Doug
>
> regards,
>
> jörn
>
>
>
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Jörn Nettingsmeier <po...@uni-duisburg-essen.de>.
Doug Chestnut wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>
>>> hi everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>> i just found out about the method
>>> String[] getTemplateIds
>>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>>
>>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>>
>>
>> Actually it should work
>> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>>
>> But this is of course subject to discussion.
>> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
>
> For environments with many publications (university) it is very valuable
> as the diagram at the top of this page shows:
> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
>
>
>
> I use the default pub as a template for my own generic pub, then use my
> generic pub as a template for my pubs in production. This way I can
> utilize new functionality as it develops in the default pub, override
> functionality/design for all my pubs, and customize functionality for
> specific publications.
>
> I can make due without it (multiple inheritance) but it would be a bummer.
i think we use the term differently.
of course i want to keep the ability to have
C inherits from B inherits from A
(inheritance a la java)
what i don't want is
C inherits from both B and A, where A and B are unrelated.
(inheritance with mixins)
regards,
jörn
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Doug Chestnut <dh...@virginia.edu>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>
>>hi everyone!
>>
>>
>>i just found out about the method
>>String[] getTemplateIds
>>in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>
>>does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>
>
> Actually it should work
> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>
> But this is of course subject to discussion.
> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
For environments with many publications (university) it is very valuable
as the diagram at the top of this page shows:
http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
I use the default pub as a template for my own generic pub, then use my
generic pub as a template for my pubs in production. This way I can
utilize new functionality as it develops in the default pub, override
functionality/design for all my pubs, and customize functionality for
specific publications.
I can make due without it (multiple inheritance) but it would be a bummer.
--Doug
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Jörn Nettingsmeier <po...@uni-duisburg-essen.de>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>> hi everyone!
>>
>>
>> i just found out about the method
>> String[] getTemplateIds
>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>
>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>
> Actually it should work
> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>
> But this is of course subject to discussion.
> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
not at all. it complicates the fallback semantics even more, and they
are arcane already :)
i'd say get rid of it. if somebody thinks they need it, we can always
reintroduce it, but then in a concerted effort to make *all* cases of
inheritance aware of this feature.
but i would not want to do the ripping out myself - i need to learn the
code some more....
regards,
jörn
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Re: [RFC] change of Publication interface?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Jann Forrer schrieb:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Joern Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>> hi everyone !
>>>
>>> getting rid of the bogus multiple-inheritance has an impact on the
>>> publication interface. (quote of the relevant discussion below, for your
>>> reference)
>>>
>>> basically, i see these options:
>>>
>>> 1. leave public String[] getTemplateIds() as it is, and return a
>>> one-element String[].
>> This would have the advantage that we can "upgrade" to multiple
>> inheritance later on without changing the API. Does anyone see
>> the necessity to use more than one template?
>>
>>
> Not yet, but I could imagine such usecases e.g.
>
> -------------------
> | University Home |
> -------------------
> | |
> ------------ | ------------
> | Faculty A | -----| Faculty B |
> ------------ ------------
> | |
> | ----------
> | |
> ------------ ------------
> | Institute A | | Institute B |
> ------------- -------------
>
> This is also mentioned in:
> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
That will be no problem.
We're discussing this case:
------------ -----------------
| Faculty A | | Publication Foo |
------------ -----------------
| |
+---+-----------+
|
-------------
| Institute A |
-------------
This might be interesting if you want to have "mix-in" functionality.
-- Andreas
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Re: [RFC] change of Publication interface?
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.uzh.ch>.
Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
> Jann Forrer wrote:
>> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>> Joern Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>>> hi everyone !
>>>>
>>>> getting rid of the bogus multiple-inheritance has an impact on the
>>>> publication interface. (quote of the relevant discussion below, for
>>>> your
>>>> reference)
>>>>
>>>> basically, i see these options:
>>>>
>>>> 1. leave public String[] getTemplateIds() as it is, and return a
>>>> one-element String[].
>>> This would have the advantage that we can "upgrade" to multiple
>>> inheritance later on without changing the API. Does anyone see
>>> the necessity to use more than one template?
>>>
>>>
>> Not yet, but I could imagine such usecases e.g.
>>
>> -------------------
>> | University Home |
>> -------------------
>> | |
>> ------------ | ------------
>> | Faculty A | -----| Faculty B |
>> ------------ ------------
>> | |
>> | ----------
>> | |
>> ------------ ------------
>> | Institute A | | Institute B |
>> ------------- -------------
>>
>> This is also mentioned in:
>> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
>>
>>
>> Or do i misunderstand something?
>
> yes.
> the case you described is single inheritance. every publication as
> exactly one template. i'm not trying to change that.
>
> however, the syntax
> <templates>
> <template id="foo"/>
> <template id="bar"/>
> </template>
>
>
> implies that publications could inherit from more than one predecessor:
>
> -------------------
> | University Home |
> -------------------
> | |
> ------------ | ------------
> | Faculty A | -----| Faculty B |
> ------------ ------------
> | | 0
> | ---------- 00000000000
> | | 0
> ------------ ------------
> | Institute A | | Institute B |
> ------------- -------------
>
> in this case, institute b would inherit both from faculty a and b.
>
> part of the code implies we can do that, but nobody has ever tried it,
> and the fallback sources wouldn't know what to do with a situation like
> that...
>
Ah ok i understand :-) So
> 3. rip out getTemplateIds() entirely, breaking backwards compatibility,
> and introduce public String getTemplateId()
is ok for me.
Jann
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Re: [RFC] change of Publication interface?
Posted by Joern Nettingsmeier <ne...@folkwang-hochschule.de>.
Jann Forrer wrote:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Joern Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>> hi everyone !
>>>
>>> getting rid of the bogus multiple-inheritance has an impact on the
>>> publication interface. (quote of the relevant discussion below, for your
>>> reference)
>>>
>>> basically, i see these options:
>>>
>>> 1. leave public String[] getTemplateIds() as it is, and return a
>>> one-element String[].
>> This would have the advantage that we can "upgrade" to multiple
>> inheritance later on without changing the API. Does anyone see
>> the necessity to use more than one template?
>>
>>
> Not yet, but I could imagine such usecases e.g.
>
> -------------------
> | University Home |
> -------------------
> | |
> ------------ | ------------
> | Faculty A | -----| Faculty B |
> ------------ ------------
> | |
> | ----------
> | |
> ------------ ------------
> | Institute A | | Institute B |
> ------------- -------------
>
> This is also mentioned in:
> http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
>
> Or do i misunderstand something?
yes.
the case you described is single inheritance. every publication as
exactly one template. i'm not trying to change that.
however, the syntax
<templates>
<template id="foo"/>
<template id="bar"/>
</template>
implies that publications could inherit from more than one predecessor:
-------------------
| University Home |
-------------------
| |
------------ | ------------
| Faculty A | -----| Faculty B |
------------ ------------
| | 0
| ---------- 00000000000
| | 0
------------ ------------
| Institute A | | Institute B |
------------- -------------
in this case, institute b would inherit both from faculty a and b.
part of the code implies we can do that, but nobody has ever tried it,
and the fallback sources wouldn't know what to do with a situation like
that...
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Re: [RFC] change of Publication interface?
Posted by Jann Forrer <ja...@id.uzh.ch>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Joern Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>> hi everyone !
>>
>> getting rid of the bogus multiple-inheritance has an impact on the
>> publication interface. (quote of the relevant discussion below, for your
>> reference)
>>
>> basically, i see these options:
>>
>> 1. leave public String[] getTemplateIds() as it is, and return a
>> one-element String[].
>
> This would have the advantage that we can "upgrade" to multiple
> inheritance later on without changing the API. Does anyone see
> the necessity to use more than one template?
>
>
Not yet, but I could imagine such usecases e.g.
-------------------
| University Home |
-------------------
| |
------------ | ------------
| Faculty A | -----| Faculty B |
------------ ------------
| |
| ----------
| |
------------ ------------
| Institute A | | Institute B |
------------- -------------
This is also mentioned in:
http://lenya.apache.org/docs/1_4/reference/publication-templating/index.html
Or do i misunderstand something?
Jann
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Re: [RFC] change of Publication interface?
Posted by Joern Nettingsmeier <ne...@folkwang-hochschule.de>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Joern Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>> 1. leave public String[] getTemplateIds() as it is, and return a
>> one-element String[].
>
> This would have the advantage that we can "upgrade" to multiple
> inheritance later on without changing the API. Does anyone see
> the necessity to use more than one template?
not at all. it's a lot of complication for very little gain.
>> 3. rip out getTemplateIds() entirely, breaking backwards compatibility,
>> and introduce public String getTemplateId()
>
> If nobody needs multiple inheritance, then +1 for (3).
>
> -- Andreas
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Re: [RFC] change of Publication interface?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Joern Nettingsmeier schrieb:
> hi everyone !
>
> getting rid of the bogus multiple-inheritance has an impact on the
> publication interface. (quote of the relevant discussion below, for your
> reference)
>
> basically, i see these options:
>
> 1. leave public String[] getTemplateIds() as it is, and return a
> one-element String[].
This would have the advantage that we can "upgrade" to multiple
inheritance later on without changing the API. Does anyone see
the necessity to use more than one template?
> 2. deprecate getTemplateIds() and make it return getTemplateId() cast to
> String[], add public String getTemplateId()
>
>
> 3. rip out getTemplateIds() entirely, breaking backwards compatibility,
> and introduce public String getTemplateId()
If nobody needs multiple inheritance, then +1 for (3).
-- Andreas
>
>
> i'm in favour of (3), because we never published an API that contained
> getTemplateId(), and it fits well with my personal NoCruft(tm) agenda.
> there's only a handful places in the code that need to be updated.
> (1) is not an option to me, because it implies functionality that we
> can't provide, and that's bad manners. if people are willing to dig in
> and learn by reading code, we should not plant red herrings to lead them
> astray...
>
>
> wdyt?
>
>
> regards,
>
> jörn
>
>
>
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>>>> hi everyone!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> i just found out about the method
>>>>> String[] getTemplateIds
>>>>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>>>>
>>>>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>>>> Actually it should work
>>>> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>>>>
>>>> But this is of course subject to discussion.
>>>> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
>>> warming up an old thread...
>>>
>>> andreas: is this mechanism tested and functional? reason i'm asking is
>>> i'm hacking on the PublicationConfiguration anyways, and if nobody
>>> really uses it, i could rip it out while i'm at it.
>>
>> +1 to rip it out.
>>
>> Thanks for mentioning it again!
>>
>> -- Andreas
>>
>>
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>>
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[RFC] change of Publication interface?
Posted by Joern Nettingsmeier <ne...@folkwang-hochschule.de>.
hi everyone !
getting rid of the bogus multiple-inheritance has an impact on the
publication interface. (quote of the relevant discussion below, for your
reference)
basically, i see these options:
1. leave public String[] getTemplateIds() as it is, and return a
one-element String[].
2. deprecate getTemplateIds() and make it return getTemplateId() cast to
String[], add public String getTemplateId()
3. rip out getTemplateIds() entirely, breaking backwards compatibility,
and introduce public String getTemplateId()
i'm in favour of (3), because we never published an API that contained
getTemplateId(), and it fits well with my personal NoCruft(tm) agenda.
there's only a handful places in the code that need to be updated.
(1) is not an option to me, because it implies functionality that we
can't provide, and that's bad manners. if people are willing to dig in
and learn by reading code, we should not plant red herrings to lead them
astray...
wdyt?
regards,
jörn
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>>> hi everyone!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i just found out about the method
>>>> String[] getTemplateIds
>>>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>>>
>>>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>>> Actually it should work
>>> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>>>
>>> But this is of course subject to discussion.
>>> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
>> warming up an old thread...
>>
>> andreas: is this mechanism tested and functional? reason i'm asking is
>> i'm hacking on the PublicationConfiguration anyways, and if nobody
>> really uses it, i could rip it out while i'm at it.
>
> +1 to rip it out.
>
> Thanks for mentioning it again!
>
> -- Andreas
>
>
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>
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
> Andreas Hartmann wrote:
>> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>>> hi everyone!
>>>
>>>
>>> i just found out about the method
>>> String[] getTemplateIds
>>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>>
>>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>>
>> Actually it should work
>> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>>
>> But this is of course subject to discussion.
>> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
>
> warming up an old thread...
>
> andreas: is this mechanism tested and functional? reason i'm asking is
> i'm hacking on the PublicationConfiguration anyways, and if nobody
> really uses it, i could rip it out while i'm at it.
+1 to rip it out.
Thanks for mentioning it again!
-- Andreas
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Jörn Nettingsmeier <po...@uni-duisburg-essen.de>.
Andreas Hartmann wrote:
> Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
>> hi everyone!
>>
>>
>> i just found out about the method
>> String[] getTemplateIds
>> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>>
>> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
>
> Actually it should work
> (see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
>
> But this is of course subject to discussion.
> Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
warming up an old thread...
andreas: is this mechanism tested and functional? reason i'm asking is
i'm hacking on the PublicationConfiguration anyways, and if nobody
really uses it, i could rip it out while i'm at it.
regards,
jörn
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Re: do we support multiple inheritance in templating?
Posted by Andreas Hartmann <an...@apache.org>.
Jörn Nettingsmeier schrieb:
> hi everyone!
>
>
> i just found out about the method
> String[] getTemplateIds
> in org.apache.lenya.cms.publication.Publication.
>
> does that mean we support or plan to support multiple inheritance?
Actually it should work
(see PublicationTemplateManagerImpl.getPublications(publication)).
But this is of course subject to discussion.
Do you consider this concept valuable or even necessary?
-- Andreas
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