[ApacheDS] [BigBang] Issues regarding configuration verses functional beans

[Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>]

Hi David,

As I make my way with the removal of various configuration beans I ran into
a problem in the
apacheds-server-tools module.  This module uses spring to load the
configuration but it really
does not intend to start the server but rather to read the configuration to
run various utility
commands with that information: i.e. connect to a running instance to
perform operations.

If these commands use Spring to get these objects and they startup then
there will be an
exception due to the server already running and ports being used.  So if
Spring starts up
these objects we're in trouble within this module.

Do you have any advice for dealing with this situation?

Alex

Re: [ApacheDS] [BigBang] Issues regarding configuration verses functional beans

[Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>]

>
> - extract configuration info from server.xml through some mechanism
> without starting any part of the server.  IIUC this is roughly what happens
> now since spring doesn't actually start anything, just get it ready for
> something else to call init on.
>

David I am a bit worried about Spring now doing more.  Originally I was sold
and committed on the idea of
using Spring to wire the server's components directly but now we're slowly
creeping towards other things
that Spring will be doing like starting everything up.  Not saying this is
bad or rejecting the idea though.  I
am just worried about how much more it's going to tap into my time wrestling
with things like this tools
module now.

I don't want to again make the mistake of delaying or not listening to your
very good ideas which I keep hitting
myself for not taking up earlier.  This wiring thing is helping a lot and I
keep telling myself that you know this
whole Spring stuff better than any of us.  However now I'm encountering
unforeseen problems like this tools jar
and more requirements are popping up like having to start the server using
Spring.  I'm just a bit worried is all
I want to tell you so I can give you the chance to make me feel better some
how :).

Alex

Re: [ApacheDS] [BigBang] Issues regarding configuration verses functional beans

[David Jencks <da...@yahoo.com>]

On Oct 4, 2007, at 5:42 AM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Some commands not all need much more information to do things like  
> dump the contents
> of a partition while the server is off line or in a state where it  
> cannot be started.  If you like
> give it a try and see what you can do to remedy this particular  
> problem and I think we'll both
> be on the same page.

I might need more information on what you expect these tools to be  
able to do before getting very far on this.   I looked at the dump  
command and it looks to me like its making a lot of assumptions about  
what kind of partitions are installed and where they are.  I didn't  
figure out what it peeks into server.xml to find.

In any case, there seem to be 3 obvious choices:

- configure these command separately independent of the server.xml
- extract configuration info from server.xml through some mechanism  
without starting any part of the server.  IIUC this is roughly what  
happens now since spring doesn't actually start anything, just get it  
ready for something else to call init on.
- divide the server.xml up into parts some of which can be started  
without the others.  For instance maybe the partitions could be in a  
partitions.xml and the dump tool could start that part.

I tend to lean towards the first or third of these but I certainly  
don't have much idea what the tools are supposed to do.

thanks
david jencks

>
> Alex
>
> On 10/4/07, David Jencks <da...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>
> > Hi David,
> >
> > As I make my way with the removal of various configuration beans I
> > ran into a problem in the
> > apacheds-server-tools module.  This module uses spring to load the
> > configuration but it really
> > does not intend to start the server but rather to read the
> > configuration to run various utility
> > commands with that information: i.e. connect to a running instance
> > to perform operations.
> >
> > If these commands use Spring to get these objects and they startup
> > then there will be an
> > exception due to the server already running and ports being used.
> > So if Spring starts up
> > these objects we're in trouble within this module.
> >
> > Do you have any advice for dealing with this situation?
>
> I have only a vague recollection of looking at this module... IIUC
> these are command line commands that connect to a running server and
> tell it to do something.  IIUC the server can be on a different
> machine?  Do they need more information about the server than its
> host and port?  I would think that the specific configuration of a
> server might be info we wouldn't want to publish let alone require
> for using the tools.... so I wonder what information from server.xml
> is actually needed?
>
> thanks
> david jencks
>
> >
> > Alex
> >
>
>

Re: [ApacheDS] [BigBang] Issues regarding configuration verses functional beans

[Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>]

Some commands not all need much more information to do things like dump the
contents
of a partition while the server is off line or in a state where it cannot be
started.  If you like
give it a try and see what you can do to remedy this particular problem and
I think we'll both
be on the same page.

Alex

On 10/4/07, David Jencks <da...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:
>
> > Hi David,
> >
> > As I make my way with the removal of various configuration beans I
> > ran into a problem in the
> > apacheds-server-tools module.  This module uses spring to load the
> > configuration but it really
> > does not intend to start the server but rather to read the
> > configuration to run various utility
> > commands with that information: i.e. connect to a running instance
> > to perform operations.
> >
> > If these commands use Spring to get these objects and they startup
> > then there will be an
> > exception due to the server already running and ports being used.
> > So if Spring starts up
> > these objects we're in trouble within this module.
> >
> > Do you have any advice for dealing with this situation?
>
> I have only a vague recollection of looking at this module... IIUC
> these are command line commands that connect to a running server and
> tell it to do something.  IIUC the server can be on a different
> machine?  Do they need more information about the server than its
> host and port?  I would think that the specific configuration of a
> server might be info we wouldn't want to publish let alone require
> for using the tools.... so I wonder what information from server.xml
> is actually needed?
>
> thanks
> david jencks
>
> >
> > Alex
> >
>
>

Re: [ApacheDS] [BigBang] Issues regarding configuration verses functional beans

[David Jencks <da...@yahoo.com>]

On Oct 3, 2007, at 10:35 PM, Alex Karasulu wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> As I make my way with the removal of various configuration beans I  
> ran into a problem in the
> apacheds-server-tools module.  This module uses spring to load the  
> configuration but it really
> does not intend to start the server but rather to read the  
> configuration to run various utility
> commands with that information: i.e. connect to a running instance  
> to perform operations.
>
> If these commands use Spring to get these objects and they startup  
> then there will be an
> exception due to the server already running and ports being used.   
> So if Spring starts up
> these objects we're in trouble within this module.
>
> Do you have any advice for dealing with this situation?

I have only a vague recollection of looking at this module... IIUC  
these are command line commands that connect to a running server and  
tell it to do something.  IIUC the server can be on a different  
machine?  Do they need more information about the server than its  
host and port?  I would think that the specific configuration of a  
server might be info we wouldn't want to publish let alone require  
for using the tools.... so I wonder what information from server.xml  
is actually needed?

thanks
david jencks

>
> Alex
>