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Posted to users@openoffice.apache.org by Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com> on 2012/06/04 10:51:59 UTC
Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Hello!
Just curious - are there any plans for importing back the improvements to
the OOo codebase made in LibreOffice?
Thanks!
Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Ross Dawson <ro...@clear.net.nz>.
On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 18:21:19 +0200, you wrote:
>2012/6/4 drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>
>
>> On Mon, 2012-06-04 at 11:00 +0200, Dwayne Henderson wrote:
>> > I feel it's a major waste of resources that OOo has been split up into
>> > multiple projects.
>>
>> Not at all the projects have different cultures, different development
>> styles and different overall goals.
>>
>
>Just because people come from different cultures doesn't mean they can't
>get along. The main goal has always been to create the best Office suite
>possible - so let's unite around that.
>
>
>> > We should unite.
>>
>>
>> It's that hard for a user - Pick which application suits you best and
>> use it.
>>
>
>No, what is hard for a user is having to choose between several projects
>that all do the same thing.
>
>
>> If you want to develop code for both projects you could do that, no one
>> will stop you directly.
>>
>
>That is the whole point of this thread - why waste time and brain power
>making either project half-a**ed when we can unite and resume kicking MS
>Office's a**?
>
>Mikkel
Bravo someone has finally said what I have been thinking.
Have you not heard the term divide and rule 5 office products but only
1 Microsoft office (you know what you get right out of the box few sub
flavours if it works for you then why look at anything else)
I have enough time trying to get things done around here without
having to try and sort out which product is best to use in my
particular case.
I use open office because of price. I wish for me that there was
another reason but alas right now there isn't.
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 7:36 PM, Sylvia Sánchez <Ma...@yahoo.com.ar>wrote:
> In fact, I'm from .uy ;-) But there's no yahoo.com.uy. :-D
>
> Regards from Montevideo
>
> Sylvia
>
Greetings from across the pond, then. :)
FC
Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Sylvia Sánchez <Ma...@yahoo.com.ar>.
In fact, I'm from .uy ;-) But there's no yahoo.com.uy. :-D
Regards from Montevideo
Sylvia
/Con cariño desde Fedora 17/
El 06/06/12 12:54, Fernando Cassia escribió:
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Sylvia Sánchez
> <Ma...@yahoo.com.ar>wrote:
>
>> Respectfully,
>> Sylvia
>> /Con cariño desde Fedora 17/
>>
> Good to see someone else from .AR here too. :)
>
> FC
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:14 AM, Sylvia Sánchez
<Ma...@yahoo.com.ar>wrote:
> Respectfully,
> Sylvia
> /Con cariño desde Fedora 17/
>
Good to see someone else from .AR here too. :)
FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary
act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un Acto
Revolucionario
- George Orwell
Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Sylvia Sánchez <Ma...@yahoo.com.ar>.
Ey, ey! Don't be so paranoid! He is just pointing the facts. Is it
bad to be different? is it bad to be numerous? Why we have to be
melted in only one project?
That things happens, is not racism.
Respectfully,
Sylvia
/Con cariño desde Fedora 17/
El 04/06/12 14:24, Tony escribió:
> Do you realize your are basically advocating racism?
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Mikkel Bang wrote:
> Your [Drew's] argument that these groups cannot join forces because they come from
> different places code-wise is the kind of xenophobic and bigoted
> close-mindedness this project, and the whole open source community for that
> matter, could do without.
Just in case people here don't know, Drew is one of the few people who
have actively (very actively) helped both projects. He probably knows
better than most people what can actually be done together and what is
unrealistic, at least at the moment.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Mon, 2012-06-04 at 22:25 +0200, Mikkel Bang wrote:
> 2012/6/4 drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>
>
> >
> > What? Look each group, all groups form a culture, there is one forming
> > here and there is one forming at the other project. It has nothing to do
> > with where the members of the group come from, both projects, both
> > groups of people are fairly diverse as individuals.
> >
>
> Let's reserve the definition of a culture to real cultures. Not some
> fictive "you and I form one culture, Tony and I another, the same for
> Dwayne and I, Tony and Dwayne, you and Tony and you and Dwayne" type of
> nonsense.
> Your argument that these groups cannot join forces because they come from
> different places code-wise is the kind of xenophobic and bigoted
> close-mindedness this project, and the whole open source community for that
> matter, could do without.
>
>
> > There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
> > differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
> > and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
> > differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
> >
>
> These are small differences. Differences that are easily set aside (all is
> fair in love and war) - if both parties want it enough - if both parties
> care more about creating the world's finest office suite than they do
> sowing disunity, flaunting their egos, or showcasing their hatred for a
> third party (Oracle) that isn't even around any more.
>
> Right now there is no guarantee that either project is going to thrive,
> > I hope that both do. One thing that I am sure of is that trying to treat
> > either as some how stunting the other, or of not being legitimate in and
> > of their own efforts will harm both in the long run.
> >
>
> That was never the argument either. The argument was that since these two
> projects are almost identical - rather than keeping them apart and
> developing two mediocre products, we should join them together to develop
> one extraordinary product.
My point is that your belief, IMO, is simply wrong on it's face - the
projects are not nearly identical. They are, in my view, actually quite
different. The application(s) produced by them are likely to be quite
different also, in features, in architecture and delivery to and support
options for, the user base.
BTW who is we in that last sentence?
>
> Mikkel
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RE: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by "Dennis E. Hamilton" <de...@acm.org>.
I think it is correct that non-essential differences between the products are surmountable, with prospects for excellent interoperability if the differences between the projects could be diffused. As Hagar suggests, I don't think that is likely.
In open source work, forking is a feature. And there is no self-interest and certainly no altruistic purpose that seems to overcome that in this particular case. So the differences that Hagar notes are indeed determinative.
- Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Hagar Delest [mailto:hagar.delest@laposte.net]
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 12:43
To: ooo-users@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Le lun. 04 juin 2012 22:25:34 CEST, Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>> There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
>> differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
>> and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
>> differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
>>
>
> These are small differences. Differences that are easily set aside (all is
> fair in love and war) - if both parties want it enough - if both parties
> care more about creating the world's finest office suite than they do
> sowing disunity, flaunting their egos, or showcasing their hatred for a
> third party (Oracle) that isn't even around any more.
Small differences??? On the contrary, the license difference for example is a key point.
There are 2 projects with opposite business models: a copyleft LibreOffice and a permissive license for Apache OpenOffice.
BTW, have you asked the same question on the LibO ML?
Hagar
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
KG02 - My earlier question may be a non-starter due to licensing issues.
On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:38 AM, Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>wrote:
> KG01 - See comments inline.
>
> On Jun 6, 2012, at 3:43 AM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
>
> > Le lun. 04 juin 2012 22:25:34 CEST, Mikkel Bang <
> facebookmannen@gmail.com> a écrit :
> >
> >>> There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
> >>> differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
> >>> and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
> >>> differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
>
> KG01 - Are their differences in the user model? What aspects of the user
> experience in LibreOffice might we consider emulating, avoiding or
> enhancing in AOO?
>
> >>
> >> These are small differences. Differences that are easily set aside (all
> is
> >> fair in love and war) - if both parties want it enough - if both parties
> >> care more about creating the world's finest office suite than they do
> >> sowing disunity, flaunting their egos, or showcasing their hatred for a
> >> third party (Oracle) that isn't even around any more.
> >
> > Small differences??? On the contrary, the license difference for example
> is a key point.
> > There are 2 projects with opposite business models: a copyleft
> LibreOffice and a permissive license for Apache OpenOffice.
> >
> > BTW, have you asked the same question on the LibO ML?
> >
> > Hagar
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
>
Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Kevin Grignon <ke...@gmail.com>.
KG01 - See comments inline.
On Jun 6, 2012, at 3:43 AM, Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net> wrote:
> Le lun. 04 juin 2012 22:25:34 CEST, Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>>> There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
>>> differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
>>> and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
>>> differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
KG01 - Are their differences in the user model? What aspects of the user experience in LibreOffice might we consider emulating, avoiding or enhancing in AOO?
>>
>> These are small differences. Differences that are easily set aside (all is
>> fair in love and war) - if both parties want it enough - if both parties
>> care more about creating the world's finest office suite than they do
>> sowing disunity, flaunting their egos, or showcasing their hatred for a
>> third party (Oracle) that isn't even around any more.
>
> Small differences??? On the contrary, the license difference for example is a key point.
> There are 2 projects with opposite business models: a copyleft LibreOffice and a permissive license for Apache OpenOffice.
>
> BTW, have you asked the same question on the LibO ML?
>
> Hagar
>
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>
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Hagar Delest <ha...@laposte.net>.
Le lun. 04 juin 2012 22:25:34 CEST, Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com> a écrit :
>> There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
>> differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
>> and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
>> differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
>>
>
> These are small differences. Differences that are easily set aside (all is
> fair in love and war) - if both parties want it enough - if both parties
> care more about creating the world's finest office suite than they do
> sowing disunity, flaunting their egos, or showcasing their hatred for a
> third party (Oracle) that isn't even around any more.
Small differences??? On the contrary, the license difference for example is a key point.
There are 2 projects with opposite business models: a copyleft LibreOffice and a permissive license for Apache OpenOffice.
BTW, have you asked the same question on the LibO ML?
Hagar
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Ross Dawson <ro...@clear.net.nz>.
On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 22:25:34 +0200, you wrote:
>2012/6/4 drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>
>
>>
>> What? Look each group, all groups form a culture, there is one forming
>> here and there is one forming at the other project. It has nothing to do
>> with where the members of the group come from, both projects, both
>> groups of people are fairly diverse as individuals.
>>
>
>Let's reserve the definition of a culture to real cultures. Not some
>fictive "you and I form one culture, Tony and I another, the same for
>Dwayne and I, Tony and Dwayne, you and Tony and you and Dwayne" type of
>nonsense.
>
>Your argument that these groups cannot join forces because they come from
>different places code-wise is the kind of xenophobic and bigoted
>close-mindedness this project, and the whole open source community for that
>matter, could do without.
>
>
>> There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
>> differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
>> and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
>> differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
>>
>
>These are small differences. Differences that are easily set aside (all is
>fair in love and war) - if both parties want it enough - if both parties
>care more about creating the world's finest office suite than they do
>sowing disunity, flaunting their egos, or showcasing their hatred for a
>third party (Oracle) that isn't even around any more.
>
>Right now there is no guarantee that either project is going to thrive,
>> I hope that both do. One thing that I am sure of is that trying to treat
>> either as some how stunting the other, or of not being legitimate in and
>> of their own efforts will harm both in the long run.
>>
>
>That was never the argument either. The argument was that since these two
>projects are almost identical - rather than keeping them apart and
>developing two mediocre products, we should join them together to develop
>one extraordinary product.
>
>Mikkel
RIGHT ON! There is only so much programming and engineering talent
out there WHY IN HELLS NAME DIVIDE IT......!!!
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com>.
2012/6/4 drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>
>
> What? Look each group, all groups form a culture, there is one forming
> here and there is one forming at the other project. It has nothing to do
> with where the members of the group come from, both projects, both
> groups of people are fairly diverse as individuals.
>
Let's reserve the definition of a culture to real cultures. Not some
fictive "you and I form one culture, Tony and I another, the same for
Dwayne and I, Tony and Dwayne, you and Tony and you and Dwayne" type of
nonsense.
Your argument that these groups cannot join forces because they come from
different places code-wise is the kind of xenophobic and bigoted
close-mindedness this project, and the whole open source community for that
matter, could do without.
> There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
> differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
> and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
> differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
>
These are small differences. Differences that are easily set aside (all is
fair in love and war) - if both parties want it enough - if both parties
care more about creating the world's finest office suite than they do
sowing disunity, flaunting their egos, or showcasing their hatred for a
third party (Oracle) that isn't even around any more.
Right now there is no guarantee that either project is going to thrive,
> I hope that both do. One thing that I am sure of is that trying to treat
> either as some how stunting the other, or of not being legitimate in and
> of their own efforts will harm both in the long run.
>
That was never the argument either. The argument was that since these two
projects are almost identical - rather than keeping them apart and
developing two mediocre products, we should join them together to develop
one extraordinary product.
Mikkel
Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Mon, 2012-06-04 at 19:24 +0200, Tony wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:35 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Not possible I think.
> >
> > To think so is to be naive, IMO.
> >
>
> Do you realize your are basically advocating racism?
What? Look each group, all groups form a culture, there is one forming
here and there is one forming at the other project. It has nothing to do
with where the members of the group come from, both projects, both
groups of people are fairly diverse as individuals.
There are also some real differences at play here - many of those
differences are technical in nature, some are of a business model type
and others are just colloquial in nature, but they are all valid
differences of opinion between intelligent individuals.
Right now there is no guarantee that either project is going to thrive,
I hope that both do. One thing that I am sure of is that trying to treat
either as some how stunting the other, or of not being legitimate in and
of their own efforts will harm both in the long run.
//drew
>
>
> > My Opinion - the best thing now is to stop talking about that and get on
> > with building this project forward. The same goes for the other, stop
> > looking backwards to the past and get on with building forward.
> >
>
> I think the best thing right now is for _you_ to stop talking.
>
> Tony
>
>
> >
> > //drew
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > We should unite.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It's that hard for a user - Pick which application suits you best and
> > > > use it.
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, what is hard for a user is having to choose between several projects
> > > that all do the same thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > > If you want to develop code for both projects you could do that, no one
> > > > will stop you directly.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That is the whole point of this thread - why waste time and brain power
> > > making either project half-a**ed when we can unite and resume kicking MS
> > > Office's a**?
> > >
> > > Mikkel
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ooo-users-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: ooo-users-help@incubator.apache.org
> >
> >
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Tony <ab...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 6:35 PM, drew <dr...@baseanswers.com> wrote:
>
> Not possible I think.
>
> To think so is to be naive, IMO.
>
Do you realize your are basically advocating racism?
> My Opinion - the best thing now is to stop talking about that and get on
> with building this project forward. The same goes for the other, stop
> looking backwards to the past and get on with building forward.
>
I think the best thing right now is for _you_ to stop talking.
Tony
>
> //drew
>
>
> >
> >
> > > > We should unite.
> > >
> > >
> > > It's that hard for a user - Pick which application suits you best and
> > > use it.
> > >
> >
> > No, what is hard for a user is having to choose between several projects
> > that all do the same thing.
> >
> >
> > > If you want to develop code for both projects you could do that, no one
> > > will stop you directly.
> > >
> >
> > That is the whole point of this thread - why waste time and brain power
> > making either project half-a**ed when we can unite and resume kicking MS
> > Office's a**?
> >
> > Mikkel
>
>
>
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>
Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Mon, 2012-06-04 at 18:21 +0200, Mikkel Bang wrote:
> 2012/6/4 drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>
>
> > On Mon, 2012-06-04 at 11:00 +0200, Dwayne Henderson wrote:
> > > I feel it's a major waste of resources that OOo has been split up into
> > > multiple projects.
> >
> > Not at all the projects have different cultures, different development
> > styles and different overall goals.
> >
>
> Just because people come from different cultures doesn't mean they can't
> get along. The main goal has always been to create the best Office suite
> possible - so let's unite around that.
Not possible I think.
To think so is to be naive, IMO.
My Opinion - the best thing now is to stop talking about that and get on
with building this project forward. The same goes for the other, stop
looking backwards to the past and get on with building forward.
//drew
>
>
> > > We should unite.
> >
> >
> > It's that hard for a user - Pick which application suits you best and
> > use it.
> >
>
> No, what is hard for a user is having to choose between several projects
> that all do the same thing.
>
>
> > If you want to develop code for both projects you could do that, no one
> > will stop you directly.
> >
>
> That is the whole point of this thread - why waste time and brain power
> making either project half-a**ed when we can unite and resume kicking MS
> Office's a**?
>
> Mikkel
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Fernando Cassia <fc...@gmail.com>.
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> . The main goal has always been to create the best Office suite
> possible - so let's unite around that.
The LO guys should have thought about that before forking OpenOffice
following Novell's siren's call. (remember the first major fork of
OpenOffice was Novell's Go-OO which incorporated the MS OOXML
support).
In fact, it was their actions that killed the commercial prospects of
StarOffice, which Oracle had renamed "Oracle Open Office" (without the
.org).
Some reading for you: http://ho.io/libreoffice
FC
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com>.
2012/6/4 drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>
> On Mon, 2012-06-04 at 11:00 +0200, Dwayne Henderson wrote:
> > I feel it's a major waste of resources that OOo has been split up into
> > multiple projects.
>
> Not at all the projects have different cultures, different development
> styles and different overall goals.
>
Just because people come from different cultures doesn't mean they can't
get along. The main goal has always been to create the best Office suite
possible - so let's unite around that.
> > We should unite.
>
>
> It's that hard for a user - Pick which application suits you best and
> use it.
>
No, what is hard for a user is having to choose between several projects
that all do the same thing.
> If you want to develop code for both projects you could do that, no one
> will stop you directly.
>
That is the whole point of this thread - why waste time and brain power
making either project half-a**ed when we can unite and resume kicking MS
Office's a**?
Mikkel
Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by drew <dr...@baseanswers.com>.
On Mon, 2012-06-04 at 11:00 +0200, Dwayne Henderson wrote:
> I feel it's a major waste of resources that OOo has been split up into
> multiple projects.
Not at all the projects have different cultures, different development
styles and different overall goals.
> We should unite.
It's that hard for a user - Pick which application suits you best and
use it.
If you want to develop code for both projects you could do that, no one
will stop you directly.
//drew
>
> Much like Rails and
> Merb<http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2008/12/23/merb-gets-merged-into-rails-3/>back
> in the day:
>
> We all realized that working together for a common good would be much more
> > productive than duplicating things on each side of the fence. Merb and
> > Rails already share so much in terms of design and sensibility that joining
> > forces seemed like the obvious way to go. All we needed was to sit down for
> > a chat and hash it out, so we did just that.
> >
>
> --Dwayne
>
> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > Just curious - are there any plans for importing back the improvements to
> > the OOo codebase made in LibreOffice?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
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Re: Importing back improvements from LibreOffice
Posted by Dwayne Henderson <it...@gmail.com>.
I feel it's a major waste of resources that OOo has been split up into
multiple projects.
We should unite.
Much like Rails and
Merb<http://weblog.rubyonrails.org/2008/12/23/merb-gets-merged-into-rails-3/>back
in the day:
We all realized that working together for a common good would be much more
> productive than duplicating things on each side of the fence. Merb and
> Rails already share so much in terms of design and sensibility that joining
> forces seemed like the obvious way to go. All we needed was to sit down for
> a chat and hash it out, so we did just that.
>
--Dwayne
On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Mikkel Bang <fa...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Just curious - are there any plans for importing back the improvements to
> the OOo codebase made in LibreOffice?
>
> Thanks!
>