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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Ting Peng <t....@gmail.com> on 2007/08/24 12:30:01 UTC
Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Hello, everyone!
Now, we are going to move our project "Blue Sky Distance Collaboration
System" to Apache Incubator for future development. Its aim is to make
people under the sky to communicate and share resources with each other
more easily. When, the system is employed, users can communicated via
audio/video(computer screen also included) and text at the same time.
In other words, Multi-Object Mutlimedia capable makes the system more
vivid and glamorous. Cosmic Resource Share & Management System is also
included. It provides unique portal for users to share resources(such as
multi-object multimedia courseware). It's proposal is at
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BSDCSProposal
The system has been developed for years, more than 20 persons are
involved. It is used in distance learning in primary and middle schools
in China. More than 40,000 students benefit from it. It's portal is
www.p12.edu.cn, but it is only accessible in mainland of China currently
and only Chinese pages provided. We are making our web site available
globally and English pages will be provided in near future.
Currently, all developers of "Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System"
are not native speaker of English. But we don't have obstacles to
communicate in English on technical topics. We want to share our work
with people who is interested in it around the world. We want new
volunteers to make our team more diverse and more active.
Project Overview and Features is at
here<http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcj48f88_09k567f>
.
For this is our first candidate project to Apache Foundation. We are
grateful for your ideas!
We are looking forward to your advice!
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Saturday 08 September 2007 10:20, t.peng.dev wrote:
> According to official web site of ffmpeg,
> http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/faq.html#TOC9
> only when |/liba52/ component is compiled in ffmpeg, it is licensed
> under GPL, otherwise
> its license is LGPL.
>
> In BSDCS, /liba52 /is not used. So, BSDCS has hard dependencies on LGPL
> version of ffmpeg.
> And we can give document on how to compile LGPL version of ffmpeg.
> If these things are done, does BSDCS fit ASF requirements?
IANAL, but *I* think it does. We are often talking about "System Requirements"
that can be listed as "must be present for program to work", and I don't see
much difference here.
WDYT, Bill?
Cheers
Niclas
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Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by "t.peng.dev" <t....@gmail.com>.
William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>>> On Friday 31 August 2007 09:50, t.peng.dev wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> BSDCS depends on API provided by FFMpeg, it use GPL.
>>>>
>>> This is probably a big issue, and you will most likely need to work
>>> away from this dependency.
>>>
>
> We wouldn't consider incubating BSDC unless the authors intended to either
> reimplement FFMpeg or find an alternate implementation that was BSD/AL
> licensed.
>
> Hard dependencies to GPL projects still have viral implications. Hard
> dependencies to LGPL projects can sometimes be an issue.
>
> Soft dependencies (e.g. and optional feature that isn't required to have
> a useful deployment of BSDC for example) on LGPL is always OK, as well as
> some GPL-with-exception licenses such as MySQL's exception clause. Again,
> only as a soft dependency. Soft dependencies on GPL-without-exception code
> can be viral and have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.
>
> Harmony, for example, had such a problem entering the incubator. By their
> commitment to work around the GPL'ed classpath dependencies, they were
> given leave to enter incubation and solve the dependency.
>
> About FFmpeg from wikipedia;
>
> FFmpeg is developed under Linux, but it can be compiled under most operating
> systems, including Microsoft Windows. There are no formal releases. Instead,
> FFmpeg developers recommend using the latest Subversion snapshot as
> development maintains a constantly stable trunk. Released under the GNU Lesser
> General Public License or GNU General Public License (depending on which
> sub-libraries one would include), FFmpeg is free software.
>
> apparently there is a subset (a sufficient subset?) that does fall under LGPL.
>
> How does the BSDCS crew feel about the 'soft target' of not having specific
> releases of FFmpeg to target? As we don't provide LGPL code from our servers
> (AFAIK) it might be hard to direct users to a recommended version, no?
>
> Bill
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
According to official web site of ffmpeg,
http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/faq.html#TOC9
only when |/liba52/ component is compiled in ffmpeg, it is licensed
under GPL, otherwise
its license is LGPL.
In BSDCS, /liba52 /is not used. So, BSDCS has hard dependencies on LGPL
version of ffmpeg.
And we can give document on how to compile LGPL version of ffmpeg.
If these things are done, does BSDCS fit ASF requirements?
|
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
t.peng.dev wrote:
> Ok, according to prior meeting of our team, we prefer Apache license.
In that case...
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>> On Friday 31 August 2007 09:50, t.peng.dev wrote:
>>
>>> BSDCS depends on API provided by FFMpeg, it use GPL.
>>
>> This is probably a big issue, and you will most likely need to work
>> away from this dependency.
We wouldn't consider incubating BSDC unless the authors intended to either
reimplement FFMpeg or find an alternate implementation that was BSD/AL
licensed.
Hard dependencies to GPL projects still have viral implications. Hard
dependencies to LGPL projects can sometimes be an issue.
Soft dependencies (e.g. and optional feature that isn't required to have
a useful deployment of BSDC for example) on LGPL is always OK, as well as
some GPL-with-exception licenses such as MySQL's exception clause. Again,
only as a soft dependency. Soft dependencies on GPL-without-exception code
can be viral and have to be considered on a case-by-case basis.
Harmony, for example, had such a problem entering the incubator. By their
commitment to work around the GPL'ed classpath dependencies, they were
given leave to enter incubation and solve the dependency.
About FFmpeg from wikipedia;
FFmpeg is developed under Linux, but it can be compiled under most operating
systems, including Microsoft Windows. There are no formal releases. Instead,
FFmpeg developers recommend using the latest Subversion snapshot as
development maintains a constantly stable trunk. Released under the GNU Lesser
General Public License or GNU General Public License (depending on which
sub-libraries one would include), FFmpeg is free software.
apparently there is a subset (a sufficient subset?) that does fall under LGPL.
How does the BSDCS crew feel about the 'soft target' of not having specific
releases of FFmpeg to target? As we don't provide LGPL code from our servers
(AFAIK) it might be hard to direct users to a recommended version, no?
Bill
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Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by "t.peng.dev" <t....@gmail.com>.
Ok, according to prior meeting of our team, we prefer Apache license.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 31 August 2007 09:50, t.peng.dev wrote:
>
>> We've decided to use open source license to release our source,
>> GPL and from apache license are both good.
>>
>
> Well, at Apache we only use Apache license (strange,huh?), so you won't have a
> choice if coming here.
> There are also legal requirements to obtain the permission of all(!)
> contributors to your project to change the licensing to Apache license,
> unless already done so and we need a record of that.
>
>
>> BSDCS depends on API provided by FFMpeg, it use GPL.
>>
>
> This is probably a big issue, and you will most likely need to work away from
> this dependency.
>
>
> Another question;
>
> * Has the project been developed with any source control tooling, so the
> entire codebase history is preserved? This would help a lot in the audit
> process.
>
>
> Cheers
> Niclas
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
>
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
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Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 31 August 2007 09:50, t.peng.dev wrote:
> We've decided to use open source license to release our source,
> GPL and from apache license are both good.
Well, at Apache we only use Apache license (strange,huh?), so you won't have a
choice if coming here.
There are also legal requirements to obtain the permission of all(!)
contributors to your project to change the licensing to Apache license,
unless already done so and we need a record of that.
> BSDCS depends on API provided by FFMpeg, it use GPL.
This is probably a big issue, and you will most likely need to work away from
this dependency.
Another question;
* Has the project been developed with any source control tooling, so the
entire codebase history is preserved? This would help a lot in the audit
process.
Cheers
Niclas
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Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by "t.peng.dev" <t....@gmail.com>.
* /Multi-Object Multimedia Application/(MMA) is term I found in this
article: /Haining Liu and M. El Zarki. Towards the delay and
synchronization control for networked real-time multi-object
multimedia applications. In Object-Oriented Real-Time Dependable
Systems, 2003. WORDS 2003 Fall. The Ninth IEEE International
Workshop on, pages 79--86, 2003 /Sometimes it is also called
multi-source multimedia. But it is not popular to use multiple
media object in an application. So this term is easy to see.
* Source Code of BSDCS is currently only available inside our team.
For our machines are all limited to access from mainland of China.
But now, we are going to get a host available globally, it is
coming soon.
* We've decided to use open source license to release our source,
GPL and from apache license are both good. We are going to choose
one. We appreciate your advice :-) . BSDCS depends on API provided
by FFMpeg, it use GPL.
Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Thanks! This certainly makes things more clear. While most of the
> people on this list are programming geeks, this is still somewhat
> outside of the mainstream area of expertise here, so expect to explain
> what BSDCS is over and over :-)
>
>> In literature, this kind of application is called /Multi-object
>> Multimedia Applications(MMAs)/.
>
> BTW I haven't found much usage of this term via Google, except for the
> BSDCS site.
>
>
> A few more questions if I may:
>
> * The proposal mentions that BSDCS is currently "an open source [..]
> project". Is there currently a place where people outside your team
> can access the source code? Among other things, providing access to
> source code may help you to find interested developers at Apache.
>
> * This maybe redundant considering the previous question, but what
> license are you using at the moment? And also if you rely on any
> third-party open source packages, what license those packages require?
>
>
> Thanks
> Andrus
>
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Thanks! This certainly makes things more clear. While most of the
people on this list are programming geeks, this is still somewhat
outside of the mainstream area of expertise here, so expect to
explain what BSDCS is over and over :-)
> In literature, this kind of application is called /Multi-object
> Multimedia Applications(MMAs)/.
BTW I haven't found much usage of this term via Google, except for
the BSDCS site.
A few more questions if I may:
* The proposal mentions that BSDCS is currently "an open source [..]
project". Is there currently a place where people outside your team
can access the source code? Among other things, providing access to
source code may help you to find interested developers at Apache.
* This maybe redundant considering the previous question, but what
license are you using at the moment? And also if you rely on any
third-party open source packages, what license those packages require?
Thanks
Andrus
On Aug 29, 2007, at 4:06 AM, t.peng.dev wrote:
> When we launched /Blue Sky Distance Collaboration system /
> development, we according to some reasons like these:
>
> 1. When we are discussing with somebody about a CAD drawing, if we
> can only watch video and hear voice of him/her, it's not enough.
> If we can are discuss how to use computer, it's much better if
> his/her computer screen is available. When we are having a
> lesson,
> it will be much vivid if teacher's slides, voice,video are
> available at the same time. When we are watching a football match
> in remote city, if we can watch it from various view point
> simultaneously, it becomes a much better enjoyment. This idea is
> use multiple scenes in distance communication, it is more than
> conference in which comprises only one video and its affiliated
> audio. So we use Collaboration instead(message communication is
> implement, file share and distribution is scheduled, towarding a
> flexible Collaboration platform ). In literature, this kind of
> application is called /Multi-object Multimedia
> Applications(MMAs)/. In our project, MMAs is used as basic
> component of visual and acoustic communication.
> 2. For MMAs is used in our system, our player and recorder should
> have the capability to handle it. So, we developed a customed
> player(XPlayer for GNU/Linux, CWPlayer for Win32) and MMA capable
> recorder.
>
> In this document(url is below) , there is also screenshot of our
> players:
> http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcj48f88_09k567f
>
>
>
> Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> I have a few high level technical questions about the scope of the
>> system. I am just trying to understand what it is.
>>
>> * There is a quote 'BSDCS [...] changes the model from the
>> "conference" to "collaboration"'. So is that video conferencing
>> software that also allows playback of prerecorded content, or am I
>> missing some other collaboration aspects?
>>
>> * Why a custom player? I mean there's nothing wrong with it, but
>> would it be possible to use the existing players, such as VLC
>> (http://www.videolan.org/)?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Andrus
>>
>> On Aug 24, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Ting Peng wrote:
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards!
>
> Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
> XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
>
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Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by "t.peng.dev" <t....@gmail.com>.
When we launched /Blue Sky Distance Collaboration system /development,
we according to some reasons like these:
1. When we are discussing with somebody about a CAD drawing, if we
can only watch video and hear voice of him/her, it's not enough.
If we can are discuss how to use computer, it's much better if
his/her computer screen is available. When we are having a lesson,
it will be much vivid if teacher's slides, voice,video are
available at the same time. When we are watching a football match
in remote city, if we can watch it from various view point
simultaneously, it becomes a much better enjoyment. This idea is
use multiple scenes in distance communication, it is more than
conference in which comprises only one video and its affiliated
audio. So we use Collaboration instead(message communication is
implement, file share and distribution is scheduled, towarding a
flexible Collaboration platform ). In literature, this kind of
application is called /Multi-object Multimedia
Applications(MMAs)/. In our project, MMAs is used as basic
component of visual and acoustic communication.
2. For MMAs is used in our system, our player and recorder should
have the capability to handle it. So, we developed a customed
player(XPlayer for GNU/Linux, CWPlayer for Win32) and MMA capable
recorder.
In this document(url is below) , there is also screenshot of our players:
http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcj48f88_09k567f
Andrus Adamchik wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> I have a few high level technical questions about the scope of the
> system. I am just trying to understand what it is.
>
> * There is a quote 'BSDCS [...] changes the model from the
> "conference" to "collaboration"'. So is that video conferencing
> software that also allows playback of prerecorded content, or am I
> missing some other collaboration aspects?
>
> * Why a custom player? I mean there's nothing wrong with it, but would
> it be possible to use the existing players, such as VLC
> (http://www.videolan.org/)?
>
> Cheers,
> Andrus
>
> On Aug 24, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Ting Peng wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: general-help@incubator.apache.org
>
>
--
Best regards!
Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by Andrus Adamchik <an...@objectstyle.org>.
Hi there,
I have a few high level technical questions about the scope of the
system. I am just trying to understand what it is.
* There is a quote 'BSDCS [...] changes the model from the
"conference" to "collaboration"'. So is that video conferencing
software that also allows playback of prerecorded content, or am I
missing some other collaboration aspects?
* Why a custom player? I mean there's nothing wrong with it, but
would it be possible to use the existing players, such as VLC (http://
www.videolan.org/)?
Cheers,
Andrus
On Aug 24, 2007, at 1:30 PM, Ting Peng wrote:
> Hello, everyone!
>
> Now, we are going to move our project "Blue Sky Distance Collaboration
> System" to Apache Incubator for future development. Its aim is to make
> people under the sky to communicate and share resources with each
> other
> more easily. When, the system is employed, users can communicated via
> audio/video(computer screen also included) and text at the same time.
> In other words, Multi-Object Mutlimedia capable makes the system more
> vivid and glamorous. Cosmic Resource Share & Management System is also
> included. It provides unique portal for users to share resources
> (such as
> multi-object multimedia courseware). It's proposal is at
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/BSDCSProposal
>
> The system has been developed for years, more than 20 persons are
> involved. It is used in distance learning in primary and middle
> schools
> in China. More than 40,000 students benefit from it. It's portal is
> www.p12.edu.cn, but it is only accessible in mainland of China
> currently
> and only Chinese pages provided. We are making our web site available
> globally and English pages will be provided in near future.
>
> Currently, all developers of "Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System"
> are not native speaker of English. But we don't have obstacles to
> communicate in English on technical topics. We want to share our work
> with people who is interested in it around the world. We want new
> volunteers to make our team more diverse and more active.
>
> Project Overview and Features is at
> here<http://docs.google.com/View?docid=dcj48f88_09k567f>
> .
>
> For this is our first candidate project to Apache Foundation. We are
> grateful for your ideas!
>
> We are looking forward to your advice!
>
> --
>
> Best regards!
>
> Ting Peng (t.peng.dev@gmail.com)
> XJTU-IBM Open Tech. R&D Center
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Re: Blue Sky Distance Collaboration System_Proposal Draft
Posted by 董巍 <go...@gmail.com>.
It is a very good item. And I think this system is full of sence for it
really can help people and can be used in a lot of parts.I hope "Blue Sky
Distance Collaboration System" can be accepted by Apache.