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Posted to jaxme-dev@ws.apache.org by Davanum Srinivas <di...@yahoo.com> on 2003/12/14 15:11:12 UTC
Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Dear JaxMe committers,
Please review the material at http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator and ask questions
either on general@incubator (or) pmc@incubator (if confidential) as necessary.
thanks,
dims
=====
Davanum Srinivas - http://webservices.apache.org/~dims/
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
>
> Forgot something:
>
> Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
>
>> * Check of project name for trademark issues
>>
>> How do I do that? In particular, how do I record that I have
>> checked and found no issues?
>
>
> *When* do I check? At the time the project wishes to exit incubation
> status? Or as soon as possible, in order to avoid conflicts with
> trademarks that are upcoming later?
Do whatever you can to clear the item off the agenda.
It's an obsticle to incubator exit - clear the obsticle using whatever
means that are available to you.
Stephen.
>
>
>
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>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Forgot something:
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> * Check of project name for trademark issues
>
> How do I do that? In particular, how do I record that I have
> checked and found no issues?
*When* do I check? At the time the project wishes to exit incubation
status? Or as soon as possible, in order to avoid conflicts with
trademarks that are upcoming later?
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Forgot something:
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> * Check of project name for trademark issues
>
> How do I do that? In particular, how do I record that I have
> checked and found no issues?
*When* do I check? At the time the project wishes to exit incubation
status? Or as soon as possible, in order to avoid conflicts with
trademarks that are upcoming later?
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Stephen McConnell <mc...@apache.org>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a couple of questions concerning
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
>
> Some of them have already been asked (with no reply), some haven't.
>
> * No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base
>
> In the case of JaxMe, there are several unit tests, which
> depend on hsqldb. hsqldb is not in the CVS repository, but
> the developer is expected to download it from the hsqldb
> site (hsqldb.sf.net) and put it into a certain subdirectory.
> Likewise, Gump is configured to load hsqldb from another
> location. hsqldb is required to build the sources. The
> binary distribution contains no references to hsqldb.
>
> Does that match the above terms or does it not?
Sounds to me like it does.
>
>
> * Check of project name for trademark issues
>
> How do I do that? In particular, how do I record that I have
> checked and found no issues?
No idea.
>
>
> * Demonstrate an active and diverse development community
>
> I know what I consider an "active and diverse" development
> community. But I am not the one to decide. Who can give me
> a clue whether the community is supposed to be sufficiently
> "active and diverse"?
Can you provide some indicators of the community engagement,
independence, and empathy?
* engagement - meaning is there at least three committers active in the
process?
* independence - are developers aligned to a particular corporate entity
or are they independent?
* empathy - the extent to which the community has adapted to the apache
way (process, policy, etc.)?
> * Demonstrate ability to tolerate and resolve conflict within the
> community.
>
> I understand and approve the desire. However, to fulfill the words,
> I would possibly have to force a conflict.
:-)
Setup a secret PPMC mailing list, plot a staged dispute, resolve it
professionally and with respect for everyone involved, then tick the
issue off the list. It's a stupid requirement. Ignore it.
> * Developers tied into ASF PGP web of trust
>
> I do not know what is required to conform to this part.
Me neither.
Ignore it - but maybe get someone in the community to hock up with the
incubator group to track what is happening in that area.
> For the record, I would like to note, that IMO the other requirements
> are fulfilled by JaxMe.
Then rerquest an exit.
Remeber that things happen in open source because you make them happen.
Don't wait for the PMC to make a decision. Push for exit - make it
happen - get on with the prime objective.
Cheers, Stephen.
>
>
>
> Jochen
>
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>
>
--
Stephen J. McConnell
mailto:mcconnell@apache.org
|------------------------------------------------|
| Magic by Merlin |
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| |
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| http://dpml.net/ |
|------------------------------------------------|
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> That makes the project unavailable for changing the license (to become an
> ASF project), but I don't see why the license is incompatible.
Does that mean we may even add the hsqldb.jar to the CVS repository
and to the source distribution?
> The PPMC concept makes this much easier, IMO. I think that you could make
> with either review-then-commit or commit-then-review, but either way the
> PPMC would vote on the changes. At the moment, I think that the committers,
> along with dims, could vote on the status changes as the project's statement
> to the PMC.
In other words: We, the committers, (which includes Dims) vote on a change
of the status file. In the case of a positive vote Dims is supposed to
record the changes?
Regards,
Jochen
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> That makes the project unavailable for changing the license (to become an
> ASF project), but I don't see why the license is incompatible.
Does that mean we may even add the hsqldb.jar to the CVS repository
and to the source distribution?
> The PPMC concept makes this much easier, IMO. I think that you could make
> with either review-then-commit or commit-then-review, but either way the
> PPMC would vote on the changes. At the moment, I think that the committers,
> along with dims, could vote on the status changes as the project's statement
> to the PMC.
In other words: We, the committers, (which includes Dims) vote on a change
of the status file. In the case of a positive vote Dims is supposed to
record the changes?
Regards,
Jochen
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RE: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > I don't know off-hand, so I'll ask you: isn't hsqldb's license
BSD-style?
> > What makes it incompatible?
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=106330819625235&w=2
That makes the project unavailable for changing the license (to become an
ASF project), but I don't see why the license is incompatible.
> using Axion is not an option, as long as Axion doesn't support composed
> primary keys.
Are they aware of it? Not that it matters for your status.
> > Why is hsqldb required to compile the code? Is the code not using JDBC?
> Some part of JaxMe is able to generate code by querying for JDBC metadata.
> The test suite uses hsqldb to verify that part. And building the
> distribution includes building the test suite.
So make the process conditional upon finding what it needs, and generating a
warning that certain test cannot be performed because something is missing.
I think that would be fine, too.
> The project's STATUS file
> (http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/site/projects/jaxme.cwiki),
> which needs updating.
> How do I update that file?
The PPMC concept makes this much easier, IMO. I think that you could make
with either review-then-commit or commit-then-review, but either way the
PPMC would vote on the changes. At the moment, I think that the committers,
along with dims, could vote on the status changes as the project's statement
to the PMC.
> > Does any one organization control the project? How diverse is the
> > community?
> No. Made of individuals.
And since it will be part of the WS project, that helps.
What would really help is for projects to adopt the philosophy that:
(1) Seeks to get all active Committers onto the PMC in a
manner based upon their being trusted to participate
in decision making.
(2) Accept that only PMC member votes are binding.
(3) Every Committer has karma for every module.
It is just one project with multiple, related, codebases.
> > Conflict != tantrum. :-) Has there never been a disagreement, a debate
> > over something?
> There have been discussions and votes, but so far no true disagreements.
Sound good so far. :-)
> > Have the developers generated PGP keys and started to get signed into
the
> > web of trust?
> That second part is the interesting thing: How do we add our keys to the
> "web of trust"? (Not that I know what it is. :-)
In fairness, that is something we (the ASF) need to help you with. We
cannot, in my opinion, expect you to know. There are some proposals, but I
do not believe that anything is final.
Are any of you geographically co-located?
--- Noel
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RE: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann wrote:
> Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> > I don't know off-hand, so I'll ask you: isn't hsqldb's license
BSD-style?
> > What makes it incompatible?
> http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=106330819625235&w=2
That makes the project unavailable for changing the license (to become an
ASF project), but I don't see why the license is incompatible.
> using Axion is not an option, as long as Axion doesn't support composed
> primary keys.
Are they aware of it? Not that it matters for your status.
> > Why is hsqldb required to compile the code? Is the code not using JDBC?
> Some part of JaxMe is able to generate code by querying for JDBC metadata.
> The test suite uses hsqldb to verify that part. And building the
> distribution includes building the test suite.
So make the process conditional upon finding what it needs, and generating a
warning that certain test cannot be performed because something is missing.
I think that would be fine, too.
> The project's STATUS file
> (http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/site/projects/jaxme.cwiki),
> which needs updating.
> How do I update that file?
The PPMC concept makes this much easier, IMO. I think that you could make
with either review-then-commit or commit-then-review, but either way the
PPMC would vote on the changes. At the moment, I think that the committers,
along with dims, could vote on the status changes as the project's statement
to the PMC.
> > Does any one organization control the project? How diverse is the
> > community?
> No. Made of individuals.
And since it will be part of the WS project, that helps.
What would really help is for projects to adopt the philosophy that:
(1) Seeks to get all active Committers onto the PMC in a
manner based upon their being trusted to participate
in decision making.
(2) Accept that only PMC member votes are binding.
(3) Every Committer has karma for every module.
It is just one project with multiple, related, codebases.
> > Conflict != tantrum. :-) Has there never been a disagreement, a debate
> > over something?
> There have been discussions and votes, but so far no true disagreements.
Sound good so far. :-)
> > Have the developers generated PGP keys and started to get signed into
the
> > web of trust?
> That second part is the interesting thing: How do we add our keys to the
> "web of trust"? (Not that I know what it is. :-)
In fairness, that is something we (the ASF) need to help you with. We
cannot, in my opinion, expect you to know. There are some proposals, but I
do not believe that anything is final.
Are any of you geographically co-located?
--- Noel
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Hi, Noel,
first of all, thanks for your reply.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> I don't know off-hand, so I'll ask you: isn't hsqldb's license BSD-style?
> What makes it incompatible?
Quoting one Noel J. Bergman: ;-)
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=106330819625235&w=2
Btw, using Axion is not an option, as long as Axion doesn't support composed
primary keys.
> Why is hsqldb required to compile the code? Is the code not using JDBC?
Some part of JaxMe is able to generate code by querying for JDBC metadata.
The test suite uses hsqldb to verify that part. And building the
distribution includes building the test suite. We can discuss whether
this needs to be like it is, but I definitely like it for reasons of
quality. A better solution would be to resolve the license issue.
> The project's STATUS file
> (http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/site/projects/jaxme.cwiki),
> which needs updating.
How do I update that file? See
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=106741007220764&w=2
which was never replied.
> Does any one organization control the project? How diverse is the
> community?
No. Made of individuals.
> Conflict != tantrum. :-) Has there never been a disagreement, a debate
> over something?
There have been discussions and votes, but so far no true disagreements.
> Have the developers generated PGP keys and started to get signed into the
> web of trust?
That second part is the interesting thing: How do we add our keys to the
"web of trust"? (Not that I know what it is. :-)
> Speaking of the record, the status file is the place to record such things.
> :-)
See above. :-)
Jochen
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Hi, Noel,
first of all, thanks for your reply.
Noel J. Bergman wrote:
> I don't know off-hand, so I'll ask you: isn't hsqldb's license BSD-style?
> What makes it incompatible?
Quoting one Noel J. Bergman: ;-)
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=106330819625235&w=2
Btw, using Axion is not an option, as long as Axion doesn't support composed
primary keys.
> Why is hsqldb required to compile the code? Is the code not using JDBC?
Some part of JaxMe is able to generate code by querying for JDBC metadata.
The test suite uses hsqldb to verify that part. And building the
distribution includes building the test suite. We can discuss whether
this needs to be like it is, but I definitely like it for reasons of
quality. A better solution would be to resolve the license issue.
> The project's STATUS file
> (http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/site/projects/jaxme.cwiki),
> which needs updating.
How do I update that file? See
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=incubator-general&m=106741007220764&w=2
which was never replied.
> Does any one organization control the project? How diverse is the
> community?
No. Made of individuals.
> Conflict != tantrum. :-) Has there never been a disagreement, a debate
> over something?
There have been discussions and votes, but so far no true disagreements.
> Have the developers generated PGP keys and started to get signed into the
> web of trust?
That second part is the interesting thing: How do we add our keys to the
"web of trust"? (Not that I know what it is. :-)
> Speaking of the record, the status file is the place to record such things.
> :-)
See above. :-)
Jochen
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RE: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann asked:
> * No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base
> In the case of JaxMe, there are several unit tests, which
> depend on hsqldb.
I don't know off-hand, so I'll ask you: isn't hsqldb's license BSD-style?
What makes it incompatible?
> hsqldb is required to build the sources.
Why is hsqldb required to compile the code? Is the code not using JDBC?
> * Check of project name for trademark issues
> How do I do that?
I'd suggest google and trademark databases.
> In particular, how do I record that I have checked and found no issues?
The project's STATUS file
(http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/site/projects/jaxme.cwiki),
which needs updating.
> *When* do I check?
As soon as you can.
> * Demonstrate an active and diverse development community
> Who can give me a clue whether the community is supposed
> to be sufficiently "active and diverse"?
Does any one organization control the project? How diverse is the
community?
> * Demonstrate ability to tolerate and resolve conflict within the
community.
Conflict != tantrum. :-) Has there never been a disagreement, a debate
over something?
> * Developers tied into ASF PGP web of trust
Have the developers generated PGP keys and started to get signed into the
web of trust?
> I do not know what is required to conform to this part.
Don't feel badly. :-) This is something we're trying to work out
throughout the ASF, and we recognize that not everyone is conveniently
located to each other.
> For the record, I would like to note, that IMO the other requirements
> are fulfilled by JaxMe.
Speaking of the record, the status file is the place to record such things.
:-)
Sounds good all around, from what you are saying. Dims, who has
participated in your project, will have the best idea.
--- Noel
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RE: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by "Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com>.
Jochen Wiedmann asked:
> * No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base
> In the case of JaxMe, there are several unit tests, which
> depend on hsqldb.
I don't know off-hand, so I'll ask you: isn't hsqldb's license BSD-style?
What makes it incompatible?
> hsqldb is required to build the sources.
Why is hsqldb required to compile the code? Is the code not using JDBC?
> * Check of project name for trademark issues
> How do I do that?
I'd suggest google and trademark databases.
> In particular, how do I record that I have checked and found no issues?
The project's STATUS file
(http://cvs.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/incubator/site/projects/jaxme.cwiki),
which needs updating.
> *When* do I check?
As soon as you can.
> * Demonstrate an active and diverse development community
> Who can give me a clue whether the community is supposed
> to be sufficiently "active and diverse"?
Does any one organization control the project? How diverse is the
community?
> * Demonstrate ability to tolerate and resolve conflict within the
community.
Conflict != tantrum. :-) Has there never been a disagreement, a debate
over something?
> * Developers tied into ASF PGP web of trust
Have the developers generated PGP keys and started to get signed into the
web of trust?
> I do not know what is required to conform to this part.
Don't feel badly. :-) This is something we're trying to work out
throughout the ASF, and we recognize that not everyone is conveniently
located to each other.
> For the record, I would like to note, that IMO the other requirements
> are fulfilled by JaxMe.
Speaking of the record, the status file is the place to record such things.
:-)
Sounds good all around, from what you are saying. Dims, who has
participated in your project, will have the best idea.
--- Noel
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Hi,
I have a couple of questions concerning
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
Some of them have already been asked (with no reply), some haven't.
* No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base
In the case of JaxMe, there are several unit tests, which
depend on hsqldb. hsqldb is not in the CVS repository, but
the developer is expected to download it from the hsqldb
site (hsqldb.sf.net) and put it into a certain subdirectory.
Likewise, Gump is configured to load hsqldb from another
location. hsqldb is required to build the sources. The
binary distribution contains no references to hsqldb.
Does that match the above terms or does it not?
* Check of project name for trademark issues
How do I do that? In particular, how do I record that I have
checked and found no issues?
* Demonstrate an active and diverse development community
I know what I consider an "active and diverse" development
community. But I am not the one to decide. Who can give me
a clue whether the community is supposed to be sufficiently
"active and diverse"?
* Demonstrate ability to tolerate and resolve conflict within the community.
I understand and approve the desire. However, to fulfill the words,
I would possibly have to force a conflict.
* Developers tied into ASF PGP web of trust
I do not know what is required to conform to this part.
For the record, I would like to note, that IMO the other requirements
are fulfilled by JaxMe.
Jochen
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Re: Exiting Incubation - Status Check
Posted by Jochen Wiedmann <jo...@ispsoft.de>.
Hi,
I have a couple of questions concerning
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ExitingIncubator
Some of them have already been asked (with no reply), some haven't.
* No non ASL or ASL compatbile dependencies in the code base
In the case of JaxMe, there are several unit tests, which
depend on hsqldb. hsqldb is not in the CVS repository, but
the developer is expected to download it from the hsqldb
site (hsqldb.sf.net) and put it into a certain subdirectory.
Likewise, Gump is configured to load hsqldb from another
location. hsqldb is required to build the sources. The
binary distribution contains no references to hsqldb.
Does that match the above terms or does it not?
* Check of project name for trademark issues
How do I do that? In particular, how do I record that I have
checked and found no issues?
* Demonstrate an active and diverse development community
I know what I consider an "active and diverse" development
community. But I am not the one to decide. Who can give me
a clue whether the community is supposed to be sufficiently
"active and diverse"?
* Demonstrate ability to tolerate and resolve conflict within the community.
I understand and approve the desire. However, to fulfill the words,
I would possibly have to force a conflict.
* Developers tied into ASF PGP web of trust
I do not know what is required to conform to this part.
For the record, I would like to note, that IMO the other requirements
are fulfilled by JaxMe.
Jochen
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