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Posted to sanselan-commits@incubator.apache.org by cl...@apache.org on 2008/07/07 19:38:25 UTC
svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Author: clr
Date: Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
New Revision: 674608
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=674608&view=rev
Log:
Draft incubator report for July 2008
Added:
incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (with props)
Added: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt?rev=674608&view=auto
==============================================================================
--- incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (added)
+++ incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
@@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
+2008-July Sanselan Incubator status report
+
+Sanselan has been in incubation since September 2007.
+
+Sanselan is a pure-java image library for reading and writing
+a variety of image formats.
+
+The community hasn't grown much in the past three months. There
+continues to be only one active committer.
+
+There was work on EXIF metadata read/write support and a bug
+in the implementation was discussed on the dev aliaas.
+
+Builds outside Apache have been made but no official Apache release
+has been created yet.
+
+Barriers to graduation continue to be diversity, size of the community,
+overall activity, and lack of a release from Apache.
+
Propchange: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
svn:eol-style = LF
Re: svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Posted by Charles Matthew Chen <ch...@gmail.com>.
Hi Craig,
Yes, I'm looking forward to replacing the old site with a
redirection to the Apache project site. I've only left it up until we
have a first Apache release so that users could obtain the latest
builds. I've revised the old site tonight to emphasize the Apache
mailing list and site.
Thanks,
Charles.
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 7:42 PM, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Hi Charles,
>
> On Jul 8, 2008, at 10:48 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
>
>> Hi Craig,
>>
>> Thanks for the guidance; I'll try to put together a proposed first
>> build soon.
>
> You can also ask for advice from the general at incubator list. They are
> often eager to help suggest (but not so eager to implement it for you!).
>>
>>
>> I'll also modify the non-apache site so that it guides users to the
>> apache list.
>
> Excellent idea. I hadn't realized that there was another "competitive" site.
> That, more than the lack of an Apache release, might explain why you're the
> direct recipient of emails about sanselan.
>
> Craig
>>
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Charles,
>>>
>>> On Jul 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
>>>
>>>> That report looks good to me.
>>>>
>>>> Most people continue to email me personally rather than the apache
>>>> mailling list, I think because of the lack of an apache release. Is
>>>> there anyone familiar with the Apache organization who can guide this
>>>> project to its first release?
>>>
>>> Sure. I can help.
>>>
>>> This project could have a single source distribution (.zip) and a single
>>> binary distribution (.jar).
>>>
>>> The source distro could be simply a zip of the source tree (rooted at
>>> trunk).
>>>
>>> The binary distro could be the result of building the .jar file and
>>> making
>>> sure that the appropriate LICENSE and NOTICE files are included when
>>> building it.
>>>
>>> Both source and binary artifacts need to be signed (detached gpg
>>> signature)
>>> and checksummed (.md5).
>>>
>>> The biggest issue is making sure that there is a repeatable build
>>> process.
>>> Something like a "BUILDING.txt" file at the same level as trunk would be
>>> appropriate.
>>>>
>>>> Most of the contact I've had is about having more control over read
>>>> images (esp. their color models, color correction, etc.) and about the
>>>> JPEG metadata reading and writing features. Specifically, I intend to
>>>> work on making EXIF write easier, documenting the EXIF features and
>>>> providing more example code that uses them. I've had a request to add
>>>> a structured way to to write IPTC metadata as well, although that may
>>>> be a significant undertaking.
>>>
>>> When you get messages, it would be good to forward them to the dev alias
>>> so
>>> everyone knows what features are being requested. You could also suggest
>>> that the sender subscribe to sanselan-dev to build the community.
>>>
>>> Craig
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Charles.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM, <cl...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Author: clr
>>>>> Date: Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>>>>> New Revision: 674608
>>>>>
>>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=674608&view=rev
>>>>> Log:
>>>>> Draft incubator report for July 2008
>>>>>
>>>>> Added:
>>>>> incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (with props)
>>>>>
>>>>> Added: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>>>>> URL:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt?rev=674608&view=auto
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ==============================================================================
>>>>> --- incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (added)
>>>>> +++ incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
>>>>> +2008-July Sanselan Incubator status report
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Sanselan has been in incubation since September 2007.
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Sanselan is a pure-java image library for reading and writing
>>>>> +a variety of image formats.
>>>>> +
>>>>> +The community hasn't grown much in the past three months. There
>>>>> +continues to be only one active committer.
>>>>> +
>>>>> +There was work on EXIF metadata read/write support and a bug
>>>>> +in the implementation was discussed on the dev aliaas.
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Builds outside Apache have been made but no official Apache release
>>>>> +has been created yet.
>>>>> +
>>>>> +Barriers to graduation continue to be diversity, size of the
>>>>> community,
>>>>> +overall activity, and lack of a release from Apache.
>>>>> +
>>>>>
>>>>> Propchange: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> svn:eol-style = LF
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Craig L Russell
>>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
>>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>>
>>>
>
> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
Re: svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Charles,
On Jul 8, 2008, at 10:48 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
> Hi Craig,
>
> Thanks for the guidance; I'll try to put together a proposed first
> build soon.
You can also ask for advice from the general at incubator list. They
are often eager to help suggest (but not so eager to implement it for
you!).
>
>
> I'll also modify the non-apache site so that it guides users to the
> apache list.
Excellent idea. I hadn't realized that there was another "competitive"
site. That, more than the lack of an Apache release, might explain why
you're the direct recipient of emails about sanselan.
Craig
>
>
> Charles.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Craig L Russell <Craig.Russell@sun.com
> > wrote:
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>> On Jul 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
>>
>>> That report looks good to me.
>>>
>>> Most people continue to email me personally rather than the apache
>>> mailling list, I think because of the lack of an apache release. Is
>>> there anyone familiar with the Apache organization who can guide
>>> this
>>> project to its first release?
>>
>> Sure. I can help.
>>
>> This project could have a single source distribution (.zip) and a
>> single
>> binary distribution (.jar).
>>
>> The source distro could be simply a zip of the source tree (rooted at
>> trunk).
>>
>> The binary distro could be the result of building the .jar file and
>> making
>> sure that the appropriate LICENSE and NOTICE files are included when
>> building it.
>>
>> Both source and binary artifacts need to be signed (detached gpg
>> signature)
>> and checksummed (.md5).
>>
>> The biggest issue is making sure that there is a repeatable build
>> process.
>> Something like a "BUILDING.txt" file at the same level as trunk
>> would be
>> appropriate.
>>>
>>> Most of the contact I've had is about having more control over read
>>> images (esp. their color models, color correction, etc.) and about
>>> the
>>> JPEG metadata reading and writing features. Specifically, I
>>> intend to
>>> work on making EXIF write easier, documenting the EXIF features and
>>> providing more example code that uses them. I've had a request to
>>> add
>>> a structured way to to write IPTC metadata as well, although that
>>> may
>>> be a significant undertaking.
>>
>> When you get messages, it would be good to forward them to the dev
>> alias so
>> everyone knows what features are being requested. You could also
>> suggest
>> that the sender subscribe to sanselan-dev to build the community.
>>
>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> Charles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM, <cl...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Author: clr
>>>> Date: Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>>>> New Revision: 674608
>>>>
>>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=674608&view=rev
>>>> Log:
>>>> Draft incubator report for July 2008
>>>>
>>>> Added:
>>>> incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (with props)
>>>>
>>>> Added: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>>>> URL:
>>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt?rev=674608&view=auto
>>>>
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> =
>>>> ===================================================================
>>>> --- incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (added)
>>>> +++ incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>>>> @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
>>>> +2008-July Sanselan Incubator status report
>>>> +
>>>> +Sanselan has been in incubation since September 2007.
>>>> +
>>>> +Sanselan is a pure-java image library for reading and writing
>>>> +a variety of image formats.
>>>> +
>>>> +The community hasn't grown much in the past three months. There
>>>> +continues to be only one active committer.
>>>> +
>>>> +There was work on EXIF metadata read/write support and a bug
>>>> +in the implementation was discussed on the dev aliaas.
>>>> +
>>>> +Builds outside Apache have been made but no official Apache
>>>> release
>>>> +has been created yet.
>>>> +
>>>> +Barriers to graduation continue to be diversity, size of the
>>>> community,
>>>> +overall activity, and lack of a release from Apache.
>>>> +
>>>>
>>>> Propchange: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> svn:eol-style = LF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Craig L Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/
>> jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>
>>
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Posted by Charles Matthew Chen <ch...@gmail.com>.
Hi Craig,
Thanks for the guidance; I'll try to put together a proposed first
build soon.
I'll also modify the non-apache site so that it guides users to the
apache list.
Charles.
On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 10:42 PM, Craig L Russell <Cr...@sun.com> wrote:
> Hi Charles,
>
> On Jul 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
>
>> That report looks good to me.
>>
>> Most people continue to email me personally rather than the apache
>> mailling list, I think because of the lack of an apache release. Is
>> there anyone familiar with the Apache organization who can guide this
>> project to its first release?
>
> Sure. I can help.
>
> This project could have a single source distribution (.zip) and a single
> binary distribution (.jar).
>
> The source distro could be simply a zip of the source tree (rooted at
> trunk).
>
> The binary distro could be the result of building the .jar file and making
> sure that the appropriate LICENSE and NOTICE files are included when
> building it.
>
> Both source and binary artifacts need to be signed (detached gpg signature)
> and checksummed (.md5).
>
> The biggest issue is making sure that there is a repeatable build process.
> Something like a "BUILDING.txt" file at the same level as trunk would be
> appropriate.
>>
>> Most of the contact I've had is about having more control over read
>> images (esp. their color models, color correction, etc.) and about the
>> JPEG metadata reading and writing features. Specifically, I intend to
>> work on making EXIF write easier, documenting the EXIF features and
>> providing more example code that uses them. I've had a request to add
>> a structured way to to write IPTC metadata as well, although that may
>> be a significant undertaking.
>
> When you get messages, it would be good to forward them to the dev alias so
> everyone knows what features are being requested. You could also suggest
> that the sender subscribe to sanselan-dev to build the community.
>
> Craig
>>
>>
>> Charles.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM, <cl...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Author: clr
>>> Date: Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>>> New Revision: 674608
>>>
>>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=674608&view=rev
>>> Log:
>>> Draft incubator report for July 2008
>>>
>>> Added:
>>> incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (with props)
>>>
>>> Added: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>>> URL:
>>> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt?rev=674608&view=auto
>>>
>>> ==============================================================================
>>> --- incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (added)
>>> +++ incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>>> @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
>>> +2008-July Sanselan Incubator status report
>>> +
>>> +Sanselan has been in incubation since September 2007.
>>> +
>>> +Sanselan is a pure-java image library for reading and writing
>>> +a variety of image formats.
>>> +
>>> +The community hasn't grown much in the past three months. There
>>> +continues to be only one active committer.
>>> +
>>> +There was work on EXIF metadata read/write support and a bug
>>> +in the implementation was discussed on the dev aliaas.
>>> +
>>> +Builds outside Apache have been made but no official Apache release
>>> +has been created yet.
>>> +
>>> +Barriers to graduation continue to be diversity, size of the community,
>>> +overall activity, and lack of a release from Apache.
>>> +
>>>
>>> Propchange: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> svn:eol-style = LF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> Craig L Russell
> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>
>
Re: svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Posted by Charles Matthew Chen <ch...@gmail.com>.
Hi Carsten,
Yes, the Maven build looks good. I've updated the pom.xml file's
project version to 0.92, since there have been a few non-apache
releases.
I've also committed fixed around a couple of nagging problems.
Thanks for removing that reference to the JBIG2 code. I didn't
mean to commit that.
Charles.
On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org> wrote:
> Craig L Russell wrote:
>>
>> Hi Charles,
>>
>> On Jul 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
>>
>>> That report looks good to me.
>>>
>>> Most people continue to email me personally rather than the apache
>>> mailling list, I think because of the lack of an apache release. Is
>>> there anyone familiar with the Apache organization who can guide this
>>> project to its first release?
>>
>> Sure. I can help.
>>
>> This project could have a single source distribution (.zip) and a single
>> binary distribution (.jar).
>>
>> The source distro could be simply a zip of the source tree (rooted at
>> trunk).
>>
>> The binary distro could be the result of building the .jar file and making
>> sure that the appropriate LICENSE and NOTICE files are included when
>> building it.
>>
>> Both source and binary artifacts need to be signed (detached gpg
>> signature) and checksummed (.md5).
>>
>> The biggest issue is making sure that there is a repeatable build process.
>> Something like a "BUILDING.txt" file at the same level as trunk would be
>> appropriate.
>
> The maven build already works, I've setup everything some months ago and we
> can just use the mvn release plugin to build the source and bin dists
> (and the mvn artifacts).
>
> I'll do a test build in the next days and we can see if that is what we
> want.
>
> Big +1 for a release :)
>
> Carsten
> --
> Carsten Ziegeler
> cziegeler@apache.org
>
Re: svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Posted by Carsten Ziegeler <cz...@apache.org>.
Craig L Russell wrote:
> Hi Charles,
>
> On Jul 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
>
>> That report looks good to me.
>>
>> Most people continue to email me personally rather than the apache
>> mailling list, I think because of the lack of an apache release. Is
>> there anyone familiar with the Apache organization who can guide this
>> project to its first release?
>
> Sure. I can help.
>
> This project could have a single source distribution (.zip) and a single
> binary distribution (.jar).
>
> The source distro could be simply a zip of the source tree (rooted at
> trunk).
>
> The binary distro could be the result of building the .jar file and
> making sure that the appropriate LICENSE and NOTICE files are included
> when building it.
>
> Both source and binary artifacts need to be signed (detached gpg
> signature) and checksummed (.md5).
>
> The biggest issue is making sure that there is a repeatable build
> process. Something like a "BUILDING.txt" file at the same level as trunk
> would be appropriate.
The maven build already works, I've setup everything some months ago and
we can just use the mvn release plugin to build the source and bin dists
(and the mvn artifacts).
I'll do a test build in the next days and we can see if that is what we
want.
Big +1 for a release :)
Carsten
--
Carsten Ziegeler
cziegeler@apache.org
Re: svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
Hi Charles,
On Jul 8, 2008, at 1:24 PM, Charles Matthew Chen wrote:
> That report looks good to me.
>
> Most people continue to email me personally rather than the apache
> mailling list, I think because of the lack of an apache release. Is
> there anyone familiar with the Apache organization who can guide this
> project to its first release?
Sure. I can help.
This project could have a single source distribution (.zip) and a
single binary distribution (.jar).
The source distro could be simply a zip of the source tree (rooted at
trunk).
The binary distro could be the result of building the .jar file and
making sure that the appropriate LICENSE and NOTICE files are included
when building it.
Both source and binary artifacts need to be signed (detached gpg
signature) and checksummed (.md5).
The biggest issue is making sure that there is a repeatable build
process. Something like a "BUILDING.txt" file at the same level as
trunk would be appropriate.
>
> Most of the contact I've had is about having more control over read
> images (esp. their color models, color correction, etc.) and about the
> JPEG metadata reading and writing features. Specifically, I intend to
> work on making EXIF write easier, documenting the EXIF features and
> providing more example code that uses them. I've had a request to add
> a structured way to to write IPTC metadata as well, although that may
> be a significant undertaking.
When you get messages, it would be good to forward them to the dev
alias so everyone knows what features are being requested. You could
also suggest that the sender subscribe to sanselan-dev to build the
community.
Craig
>
>
> Charles.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM, <cl...@apache.org> wrote:
>> Author: clr
>> Date: Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>> New Revision: 674608
>>
>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=674608&view=rev
>> Log:
>> Draft incubator report for July 2008
>>
>> Added:
>> incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (with props)
>>
>> Added: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt?rev=674608&view=auto
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =
>> =====================================================================
>> --- incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (added)
>> +++ incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
>> @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
>> +2008-July Sanselan Incubator status report
>> +
>> +Sanselan has been in incubation since September 2007.
>> +
>> +Sanselan is a pure-java image library for reading and writing
>> +a variety of image formats.
>> +
>> +The community hasn't grown much in the past three months. There
>> +continues to be only one active committer.
>> +
>> +There was work on EXIF metadata read/write support and a bug
>> +in the implementation was discussed on the dev aliaas.
>> +
>> +Builds outside Apache have been made but no official Apache release
>> +has been created yet.
>> +
>> +Barriers to graduation continue to be diversity, size of the
>> community,
>> +overall activity, and lack of a release from Apache.
>> +
>>
>> Propchange: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> svn:eol-style = LF
>>
>>
>>
Craig L Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: svn commit: r674608 - /incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
Posted by Charles Matthew Chen <ch...@gmail.com>.
That report looks good to me.
Most people continue to email me personally rather than the apache
mailling list, I think because of the lack of an apache release. Is
there anyone familiar with the Apache organization who can guide this
project to its first release?
Most of the contact I've had is about having more control over read
images (esp. their color models, color correction, etc.) and about the
JPEG metadata reading and writing features. Specifically, I intend to
work on making EXIF write easier, documenting the EXIF features and
providing more example code that uses them. I've had a request to add
a structured way to to write IPTC metadata as well, although that may
be a significant undertaking.
Charles.
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 9:38 PM, <cl...@apache.org> wrote:
> Author: clr
> Date: Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
> New Revision: 674608
>
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=674608&view=rev
> Log:
> Draft incubator report for July 2008
>
> Added:
> incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (with props)
>
> Added: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt?rev=674608&view=auto
> ==============================================================================
> --- incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt (added)
> +++ incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt Mon Jul 7 12:38:24 2008
> @@ -0,0 +1,19 @@
> +2008-July Sanselan Incubator status report
> +
> +Sanselan has been in incubation since September 2007.
> +
> +Sanselan is a pure-java image library for reading and writing
> +a variety of image formats.
> +
> +The community hasn't grown much in the past three months. There
> +continues to be only one active committer.
> +
> +There was work on EXIF metadata read/write support and a bug
> +in the implementation was discussed on the dev aliaas.
> +
> +Builds outside Apache have been made but no official Apache release
> +has been created yet.
> +
> +Barriers to graduation continue to be diversity, size of the community,
> +overall activity, and lack of a release from Apache.
> +
>
> Propchange: incubator/sanselan/board/2008-07.txt
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> svn:eol-style = LF
>
>
>