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Posted to dev@openoffice.apache.org by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch> on 2013/10/03 14:55:23 UTC
Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Hi at all
I beleve this is a realy important topic. If we want to grow, we need
more professional ressource. We all know, founding for development most
going on outside ASF. But maybe we should create a guidline how
Crowdfunding could work on our community, and how we can support such
activity.
Also I wonder who is interested in Crowdfounding?
Greetings Raphael
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Ian Lynch <ia...@gmail.com>.
Probably best to choose a specific feature or aspect of AOO that would be a
popular benefit to a lot of people. That is the difficult bit. What is
likely to be possible? Maybe further improvements to Word import/export or
something? Abilty to fully edit pdf files? Whatever is chosen needs wide
appeal but is not such a big job as to be impossible to achieve. I'd like a
multi-user AOO to use instead of GoogleDocs but I suspect this would be too
big a project.
On 7 October 2013 08:51, janI <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 7 October 2013 01:28, Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
>
> > Hi all
> >
> > Am 05.10.13 13:30, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> >
> > Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> >>
> >>> Apache could for example give hints/weblinks how to encrypt emails
> (that
> >>> would
> >>> help people in dictatorships), but that is not the real object of
> Apache
> >>>
> >>
> >> That would not be relevant to the project. But if someone has a budget
> to
> >> spend in improving Apache OpenOffice, this would be relevant to the
> >> project: it would be useful to him to learn that he cannot pay a
> developer
> >> through Apache, but that (with no involvement and no responsibilities
> for
> >> Apache) he can post his request on a third-party website.
> >>
> > Yes, it's not a topic for the ASF, but for the OpenOffice Community. The
> > special thing about OpenOffice is the large userbase. If only one of 500
> > users invest 10 dollars, there would be a investment about 1 million
> > dollars. Luckely this doesn't happend. I simply want to show how big the
> > potential is. To get me right, I talk about investments, and not about
> > donnations.
> >
> > I plane to start small, with small projects of same 1000 dollars. You can
> > see the results faster and good results generate new funds. It is not a
> > easy part, and I understand everyone who stay away from this business.
> But
> > it is also a big chance for OpenOffice and of course for developers.
>
>
> I think you are on a correct track in my experience AOO is very well suited
> for crowdfunding, we have a very large known user base. I see it as a
> chance to get things done we otherwise would not have the capacity to do.
>
> The key to success is however a lot of preparation, you have one shot with
> your campain, so it needs to be eye catching and understandable (the user
> must see the personal benefit). Choosing the right website seems less
> important, trix is to use the social media.
>
> One of my good friends ran a very succesfull campain, raising funding to
> build a small footprint controller with embedded linux, it actually paid
> for 5 people a small year.
>
> If you need/want help with preparing the campain or afterwards, just mail
> me.
>
> rgds
> jan I.
>
>
> >
> >> Then, like all patches, this contribution may or may not be included in
> >> OpenOffice depending on licensing and technical merit. But at least we
> give
> >> some more visibility to the OpenOffice "ecosystem", quite similarly to
> what
> >> we do with consultants.
> >>
> >> That said, I have very little experience with crowdfunding sites and I
> >> don't know what the best one would be to find OpenOffice developers.
> >>
> > I will talk next week to a person who has probabily experiance with this.
> > I know this person from may sporttime. He has a company that helps in
> > startups. Sametimes it's good to have a load of connections ;-)
> >
> > Greetings Raphael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<
> dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.apache.org>
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
> >
> >
>
--
Ian
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by janI <ja...@apache.org>.
On 7 October 2013 01:28, Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Am 05.10.13 13:30, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>
> Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>> Apache could for example give hints/weblinks how to encrypt emails (that
>>> would
>>> help people in dictatorships), but that is not the real object of Apache
>>>
>>
>> That would not be relevant to the project. But if someone has a budget to
>> spend in improving Apache OpenOffice, this would be relevant to the
>> project: it would be useful to him to learn that he cannot pay a developer
>> through Apache, but that (with no involvement and no responsibilities for
>> Apache) he can post his request on a third-party website.
>>
> Yes, it's not a topic for the ASF, but for the OpenOffice Community. The
> special thing about OpenOffice is the large userbase. If only one of 500
> users invest 10 dollars, there would be a investment about 1 million
> dollars. Luckely this doesn't happend. I simply want to show how big the
> potential is. To get me right, I talk about investments, and not about
> donnations.
>
> I plane to start small, with small projects of same 1000 dollars. You can
> see the results faster and good results generate new funds. It is not a
> easy part, and I understand everyone who stay away from this business. But
> it is also a big chance for OpenOffice and of course for developers.
I think you are on a correct track in my experience AOO is very well suited
for crowdfunding, we have a very large known user base. I see it as a
chance to get things done we otherwise would not have the capacity to do.
The key to success is however a lot of preparation, you have one shot with
your campain, so it needs to be eye catching and understandable (the user
must see the personal benefit). Choosing the right website seems less
important, trix is to use the social media.
One of my good friends ran a very succesfull campain, raising funding to
build a small footprint controller with embedded linux, it actually paid
for 5 people a small year.
If you need/want help with preparing the campain or afterwards, just mail
me.
rgds
jan I.
>
>> Then, like all patches, this contribution may or may not be included in
>> OpenOffice depending on licensing and technical merit. But at least we give
>> some more visibility to the OpenOffice "ecosystem", quite similarly to what
>> we do with consultants.
>>
>> That said, I have very little experience with crowdfunding sites and I
>> don't know what the best one would be to find OpenOffice developers.
>>
> I will talk next week to a person who has probabily experiance with this.
> I know this person from may sporttime. He has a company that helps in
> startups. Sametimes it's good to have a load of connections ;-)
>
> Greetings Raphael
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Raphael,
2013/10/7 Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>
> Hi all
>
> Am 05.10.13 13:30, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
>
> Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>>
>>> Apache could for example give hints/weblinks how to encrypt emails (that
>>> would
>>> help people in dictatorships), but that is not the real object of Apache
>>>
>>
>> That would not be relevant to the project. But if someone has a budget to
>> spend in improving Apache OpenOffice, this would be relevant to the
>> project: it would be useful to him to learn that he cannot pay a developer
>> through Apache, but that (with no involvement and no responsibilities for
>> Apache) he can post his request on a third-party website.
>>
> Yes, it's not a topic for the ASF, but for the OpenOffice Community. The
> special thing about OpenOffice is the large userbase. If only one of 500
> users invest 10 dollars, there would be a investment about 1 million
> dollars. Luckely this doesn't happend. I simply want to show how big the
> potential is. To get me right, I talk about investments, and not about
> donnations.
>
> I plane to start small, with small projects of same 1000 dollars. You can
> see the results faster and good results generate new funds. It is not a
> easy part, and I understand everyone who stay away from this business. But
> it is also a big chance for OpenOffice and of course for developers.
The great challenge will be to define which project could be successfull
with an investment of 1000 or 2000 dollards. For an enduser, a new
functionnality or a new extension can be considered as an easy task, but
it's perhaps a really difficult work for the coder who has to implement it.
Perhaps a way to "solve" this problem could be to publish the propositions
to have advices and a general idea about their feasability and after decide
in which category they could be classified : simple, intermediate or
difficult task. That requires also from the donators to act with an open
spirit, knowing clearly that there's no absolute garantee, knowing only
that they have more chance to win something than with a loto ticket ;-)
But your basis idea seems really interesting.
A+
--
gw
>
>
>>
Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch>.
Hi all
Am 05.10.13 13:30, schrieb Andrea Pescetti:
> Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> Apache could for example give hints/weblinks how to encrypt emails
>> (that would
>> help people in dictatorships), but that is not the real object of Apache
>
> That would not be relevant to the project. But if someone has a budget
> to spend in improving Apache OpenOffice, this would be relevant to the
> project: it would be useful to him to learn that he cannot pay a
> developer through Apache, but that (with no involvement and no
> responsibilities for Apache) he can post his request on a third-party
> website.
Yes, it's not a topic for the ASF, but for the OpenOffice Community. The
special thing about OpenOffice is the large userbase. If only one of 500
users invest 10 dollars, there would be a investment about 1 million
dollars. Luckely this doesn't happend. I simply want to show how big the
potential is. To get me right, I talk about investments, and not about
donnations.
I plane to start small, with small projects of same 1000 dollars. You
can see the results faster and good results generate new funds. It is
not a easy part, and I understand everyone who stay away from this
business. But it is also a big chance for OpenOffice and of course for
developers.
>
> Then, like all patches, this contribution may or may not be included
> in OpenOffice depending on licensing and technical merit. But at least
> we give some more visibility to the OpenOffice "ecosystem", quite
> similarly to what we do with consultants.
>
> That said, I have very little experience with crowdfunding sites and I
> don't know what the best one would be to find OpenOffice developers.
I will talk next week to a person who has probabily experiance with
this. I know this person from may sporttime. He has a company that helps
in startups. Sametimes it's good to have a load of connections ;-)
Greetings Raphael
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Jörg Schmidt wrote:
> Apache could for example give hints/weblinks how to encrypt emails (that would
> help people in dictatorships), but that is not the real object of Apache
That would not be relevant to the project. But if someone has a budget
to spend in improving Apache OpenOffice, this would be relevant to the
project: it would be useful to him to learn that he cannot pay a
developer through Apache, but that (with no involvement and no
responsibilities for Apache) he can post his request on a third-party
website.
Then, like all patches, this contribution may or may not be included in
OpenOffice depending on licensing and technical merit. But at least we
give some more visibility to the OpenOffice "ecosystem", quite similarly
to what we do with consultants.
That said, I have very little experience with crowdfunding sites and I
don't know what the best one would be to find OpenOffice developers.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
Hello,
> From: Andrea Pescetti [mailto:pescetti@apache.org]
> There's an ongoing discussion at
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201310.
> mbox/date
> that may offer some useful information even if the issue is slightly
> different (a committer, in another Apache project, asking how to
> properly use crowdfunding sites to gather money and be able to spend
> more time on the project).
> This is correct. But, unless the scope is too narrow (or the code is
> really bad!) often it will make sense to integrate the developed code
> into Apache OpenOffice, so that the software is improved and the
> community can count on a new developer.
> Indeed. But as Rob wrote it could help to have some links at least to
> tell interested people the channels where they can find potential
> developers.
Yes, I understand.
What can I say ... not everything that is useful for AOO, is particularly
important at the same time, and everything is useful only does not immediately
support the preferred AOO by itself
Example:
Apache stands for free software, and thus also for freedom, but that it is not
necessarily the task of Apache to treat general topics of freedom.
Apache could for example give hints/weblinks how to encrypt emails (that would
help people in dictatorships), but that is not the real object of Apache (imho)
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Jörg,
2013/10/5 Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>
> Hello,
>
> > From: Guy Waterval [mailto:waterval.guy@gmail.com]
>
> > I think it is dangerous when "public" funds support a
> > developper in a free
> > project in which companies are associated. Just today I had a
> > discussion
> > with a Windows user saying he did not like the free projects
> > because he
> > considered that in these models, the volunteers are the
> > losers and people
> > who can commercially exploit the final product without
> > reverse anything to
> > the project itself, the winners. It is a quite common opinion
> > among Windows
> > users with whom I have the opportunity to discuss, probably
> > because they
> > haven't the habit of free projects.
> > This is why I find preferable (but this is only my personal
> > opinion) that a
> > freelance developer should be paid only for his specific
> > mission, defined
> > by donors, and should not be "integrated and under the control of the
> > project" for questions of independence and transparency. This should
> > reduced the desagreable comments, I think.
>
> I understand what you're saying, but a detail I do not understand:
>
> Why should it be relevant whether companies are integrated or not?
>
When companies are involved in a project, they expect tangible returns of
their investments, it's a normal business rule. They have therefore a
significant weight on the development. It does not bother me, it's normal,
and I do not see such a big project as AOO able to evolve on a purely
community base, without the resources and help of external companies.
But maybe some communities could have different priorities and could wish
realize them without the risk to be in minority if they try to realize
them from inside the AOO project. In this case, they might perhaps prefer
to invest for it themselves and keep a better visibility of the progress of
their project than if "their developers" are directly merged into the AOO
project. Only my opinion, of course.
A+
--
gw
>
Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
Hello,
> From: Guy Waterval [mailto:waterval.guy@gmail.com]
> I think it is dangerous when "public" funds support a
> developper in a free
> project in which companies are associated. Just today I had a
> discussion
> with a Windows user saying he did not like the free projects
> because he
> considered that in these models, the volunteers are the
> losers and people
> who can commercially exploit the final product without
> reverse anything to
> the project itself, the winners. It is a quite common opinion
> among Windows
> users with whom I have the opportunity to discuss, probably
> because they
> haven't the habit of free projects.
> This is why I find preferable (but this is only my personal
> opinion) that a
> freelance developer should be paid only for his specific
> mission, defined
> by donors, and should not be "integrated and under the control of the
> project" for questions of independence and transparency. This should
> reduced the desagreable comments, I think.
I understand what you're saying, but a detail I do not understand:
Why should it be relevant whether companies are integrated or not?
It is clear to me where the problem may be if you paid developers in freelance
projects for any work, and not for concrete work, paid for - but why should it,
_for that Contemplation_ be important whether collaborate companies or not?
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Guy Waterval <wa...@gmail.com>.
Hi Andrea,
I think it is dangerous when "public" funds support a developper in a free
project in which companies are associated. Just today I had a discussion
with a Windows user saying he did not like the free projects because he
considered that in these models, the volunteers are the losers and people
who can commercially exploit the final product without reverse anything to
the project itself, the winners. It is a quite common opinion among Windows
users with whom I have the opportunity to discuss, probably because they
haven't the habit of free projects.
This is why I find preferable (but this is only my personal opinion) that a
freelance developer should be paid only for his specific mission, defined
by donors, and should not be "integrated and under the control of the
project" for questions of independence and transparency. This should
reduced the desagreable comments, I think.
A+
--
gw
2013/10/4 Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>
> Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>
>> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:r.bircher@gmx.ch]
>>> outside ASF. But maybe we should create a guidline how
>>> Crowdfunding could work on our community, and how we can support such
>>> activity.
>>>
>>
> There's an ongoing discussion at
> http://mail-archives.apache.**org/mod_mbox/community-dev/**
> 201310.mbox/date<http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201310.mbox/date>
> that may offer some useful information even if the issue is slightly
> different (a committer, in another Apache project, asking how to properly
> use crowdfunding sites to gather money and be able to spend more time on
> the project).
>
>
> "Crowdfunding" is when:
>> someone collects money or resources to *independently* make the changes
>> *he*
>> needs. He can return code to the project, but they must not do.
>>
>
> This is correct. But, unless the scope is too narrow (or the code is
> really bad!) often it will make sense to integrate the developed code into
> Apache OpenOffice, so that the software is improved and the community can
> count on a new developer.
>
>
> I do not see that apache should set up rules or aids provide for
>> Crowdfounding
>> because it is not an issue for the AOO project *itself*.
>>
>
> Indeed. But as Rob wrote it could help to have some links at least to tell
> interested people the channels where they can find potential developers.
>
> Regards,
> Andrea.
>
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@openoffice.**apache.org<de...@openoffice.apache.org>
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@openoffice.apache.org
>
>
Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Andrea Pescetti <pe...@apache.org>.
Jörg Schmidt wrote:
>> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:r.bircher@gmx.ch]
>> outside ASF. But maybe we should create a guidline how
>> Crowdfunding could work on our community, and how we can support such
>> activity.
There's an ongoing discussion at
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/community-dev/201310.mbox/date
that may offer some useful information even if the issue is slightly
different (a committer, in another Apache project, asking how to
properly use crowdfunding sites to gather money and be able to spend
more time on the project).
> "Crowdfunding" is when:
> someone collects money or resources to *independently* make the changes *he*
> needs. He can return code to the project, but they must not do.
This is correct. But, unless the scope is too narrow (or the code is
really bad!) often it will make sense to integrate the developed code
into Apache OpenOffice, so that the software is improved and the
community can count on a new developer.
> I do not see that apache should set up rules or aids provide for Crowdfounding
> because it is not an issue for the AOO project *itself*.
Indeed. But as Rob wrote it could help to have some links at least to
tell interested people the channels where they can find potential
developers.
Regards,
Andrea.
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Jörg Schmidt <jo...@j-m-schmidt.de>.
Hello Raphael, *,
> From: Raphael Bircher [mailto:r.bircher@gmx.ch]
> I beleve this is a realy important topic. If we want to grow, we need
> more professional ressource. We all know, founding for
> development most
> going on outside ASF. But maybe we should create a guidline how
> Crowdfunding could work on our community, and how we can support such
> activity.
I'm not sure, but I'm afraid there's a problem of understanding. "Crowdfunding" is
(imho) a topic for third parties who have specific interests for changes to AOO.
"Crowdfunding" is when:
someone collects money or resources to *independently* make the changes *he*
needs. He can return code to the project, but they must not do.
Sponsorship or support for the AOO project itself, is when:
someone donates money for Apache, or paid developers and provides the manpower
available
I do not see that apache should set up rules or aids provide for Crowdfounding
because it is not an issue for the AOO project *itself*.
Greetings,
Jörg
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Re: Crowdfunding for Apache OpenOffice
Posted by Rob Weir <ro...@apache.org>.
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Raphael Bircher <r....@gmx.ch> wrote:
> Hi at all
>
> I beleve this is a realy important topic. If we want to grow, we need more
> professional ressource. We all know, founding for development most going on
> outside ASF. But maybe we should create a guidline how Crowdfunding could
> work on our community, and how we can support such activity.
>
Personally, I think it is a great idea, and there are several web
sites that can help private parties to arrange these kinds of
arrangements.
But if it happens outside of the ASF then I don't think we (the
project) need to create any guidelines for it. But maybe we can have
a link to crowdfunding sites that project members use, provided we
give a clear disclaimer that these are private arrangements outside of
the project.
-Rob
> Also I wonder who is interested in Crowdfounding?
>
> Greetings Raphael
>
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