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Posted to jcp-open@apache.org by Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> on 2007/08/12 12:01:54 UTC
[PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Steve Loughran wrote:
> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product release
> tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code for the rest of
> august. Because there are other things out there, and the one that
> interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start the first erlang-related
> work at apache, I think
This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly enforced.
It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next step
response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to realise that
they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
Any thoughts?
Stephen
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Matthias Wessendorf wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> do you mind to send this mail to the committers@ address ?
NO. committers@ is not a discussion list.
community@ is the discussion-list of any and all committers,
subscription optional so it's not spam.
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Matthias Wessendorf <ma...@apache.org>.
Hi Stephen,
do you mind to send this mail to the committers@ address ?
-Matthias
On 8/12/07, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
> Steve Loughran wrote:
> > But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
> > back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product release
> > tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code for the rest of
> > august. Because there are other things out there, and the one that
> > interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start the first erlang-related
> > work at apache, I think
>
> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly enforced.
>
> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next step
> response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to realise that
> they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>
> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
> have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Stephen
>
--
Matthias Wessendorf
further stuff:
blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
mail: matzew-at-apache-dot-org
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Dion Gillard <di...@apache.org>.
Seems like a WOFTAE to me.
If I wanted to explore Mono, Ruby, Erlang etc, I'd already be doing it.
It seems that it would be punishing the ASF communities (committers, users
etc) for Sun's actions, and sending a message that the ASF much like Big
Brother (the novel incarnation, not the tv).
On 8/12/07, Stephen Colebourne <sc...@joda.org> wrote:
>
> Steve Loughran wrote:
> > But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
> > back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product release
> > tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code for the rest of
> > august. Because there are other things out there, and the one that
> > interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start the first erlang-related
> > work at apache, I think
>
> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly enforced.
>
> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next step
> response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to realise that
> they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>
> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
> have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Stephen
>
--
dIon Gillard
Rule #131 of Acquisition: Information is Profit.
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org>.
On Aug 12, 2007, at 3:01 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>
> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly
> enforced.
>
> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next
> step response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to
> realise that they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>
> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on
> Java to have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>
> Any thoughts?
Not sure its good for users of our projects. Seems to end up
punishing them. I do like Emmanuel's twist. Documentation, what's
that ? :)
>
> Stephen
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@buni.org>.
It would be more interesting to see "explore mono" and
http://www.mono-project.com/Moonlight
especially. That is the stuff of good press releases.
Davanum Srinivas wrote:
> Love the plan :)
>
> -- dims
>
> On 8/12/07, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Stephen,
>>
>>
>>> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
>>> have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>>>
>> Or spending one full week writing documentation ;) So that you hit two
>> birds with a single stone !
>>
>> Emmanuel.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Cordialement,
>> Emmanuel Lécharny
>> www.iktek.com
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
http://buni.org
Multi-platform and extensible Email,
Calendaring (including freebusy),
Rich Webmail, Web-calendaring, ease
of installation/administration.
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
Love the plan :)
-- dims
On 8/12/07, Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> > Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
> > have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>
> Or spending one full week writing documentation ;) So that you hit two
> birds with a single stone !
>
> Emmanuel.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Cordialement,
> Emmanuel Lécharny
> www.iktek.com
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Emmanuel Lecharny <el...@gmail.com>.
Hi Stephen,
> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
> have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
Or spending one full week writing documentation ;) So that you hit two
birds with a single stone !
Emmanuel.
--
Regards,
Cordialement,
Emmanuel Lécharny
www.iktek.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
By making sure their project run well when using harmony? :)
-- dims
On 8/13/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org> wrote:
> We could change that to "let all people involved in Java development
> help out the Harmony project for one week".
>
> Personally, I do not believe in striking actions. One of our biggest
> USPs is our pragmatism. We should not compromise it.
>
> Folks, Geir, as VP JCP, and the board do have a game plan. We can all
> rant and rave, but best thing IMHO would be to run "business as usual"
> and wait for that plan to run its course.
>
> Best regards
> Henning
>
>
>
> On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 11:01 +0100, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> > Steve Loughran wrote:
> > > But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> > > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
> > > back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product release
> > > tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code for the rest of
> > > august. Because there are other things out there, and the one that
> > > interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start the first erlang-related
> > > work at apache, I think
> >
> > This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> > development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> > voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly enforced.
> >
> > It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next step
> > response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to realise that
> > they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
> >
> > Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
> > have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
> >
> > Any thoughts?
> >
> > Stephen
>
>
--
Davanum Srinivas :: http://davanum.wordpress.com
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Henning Schmiedehausen <he...@apache.org>.
We could change that to "let all people involved in Java development
help out the Harmony project for one week".
Personally, I do not believe in striking actions. One of our biggest
USPs is our pragmatism. We should not compromise it.
Folks, Geir, as VP JCP, and the board do have a game plan. We can all
rant and rave, but best thing IMHO would be to run "business as usual"
and wait for that plan to run its course.
Best regards
Henning
On Sun, 2007-08-12 at 11:01 +0100, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> Steve Loughran wrote:
> > But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
> > back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product release
> > tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code for the rest of
> > august. Because there are other things out there, and the one that
> > interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start the first erlang-related
> > work at apache, I think
>
> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly enforced.
>
> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next step
> response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to realise that
> they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>
> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
> have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Stephen
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> On Aug 12, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
>
>> WHY NOT SUSPEND PARTICIPATION IN THE JCP -- THE ROOT OF THE ACTUAL
>> PROBLEM!!!
>
> That is a possible outcome. But we're not ready to give up yet.
I'd personally be strongly -1 on this. One foot in and one foot out
the door is not way to effect positive change.
> Another solution may be just to close down the JCP as a valiant
> experiment, and let MSFT and Sun battle it out with their closed
> products (or join forces). The rest of us would probably schlep over to
> OSGi, use Harmony as the basic runtime, and see what happens...
And is certainly a consideration. I don't necessarily agree with...
> However, it's far too early to consider either of those outcomes, which
> would be fairly unpleasant and disruptive.
And the current situation is not so, in what sense?
I think we have to give this a very short period of time to work itself
out, but if the JCP organization is not a self-maintaining, self-healing
standards body, but the puppet of Sun, we have no business there. We'll
see what the JCP thinks of the recent blogging and current behaviors
w.r.t. J2SE 6, which has become even more bizarre than J2SE 5 offers...
Bill
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Aug 12, 2007, at 5:16 PM, Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> WHY NOT SUSPEND PARTICIPATION IN THE JCP -- THE ROOT OF THE ACTUAL
> PROBLEM!!!
That is a possible outcome. But we're not ready to give up yet.
Another solution may be just to close down the JCP as a valiant
experiment, and let MSFT and Sun battle it out with their closed
products (or join forces). The rest of us would probably schlep over
to OSGi, use Harmony as the basic runtime, and see what happens...
However, it's far too early to consider either of those outcomes,
which would be fairly unpleasant and disruptive.
geir
>
> Danese Cooper wrote:
>> Not that anybody asked me, but I think they WANT us to stop ASF
>> Java development, no? A publicized cease code would seem to send
>> the message that they've won.
>>
>> Danese
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:01 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>>>
>>>> Steve Loughran wrote:
>>>>> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
>>>> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
>>>>> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product
>>>>> release tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java
>>>>> code for the rest of august. Because there are other things out
>>>>> there, and the one that interests me has the name Erlang. Time
>>>>> to start the first erlang-related work at apache, I think
>>>>
>>>> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
>>>> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
>>>> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly
>>>> enforced.
>>>>
>>>> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid
>>>> next step response from our side. It might also make Sun begin
>>>> to realise that they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and
>>>> Java.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on
>>>> Java to have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> I dunno. This seems like cutting of our nose... Java is "ours"
>>> as much as it is "theirs". IMO, Sun is trying to re-position
>>> Java as theirs, something they are allowing us to help them with,
>>> rather than something that we've all come to collectively own
>>> over the last 7 years or so through our contributions. So I
>>> don't want to do anything that adds any support to that idea....
>>>
>>> geir
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Buni Meldware Communication Suite
> http://buni.org
> Multi-platform and extensible Email, Calendaring (including
> freebusy), Rich Webmail, Web-calendaring, ease of installation/
> administration.
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by "Andrew C. Oliver" <ac...@buni.org>.
WHY NOT SUSPEND PARTICIPATION IN THE JCP -- THE ROOT OF THE ACTUAL
PROBLEM!!!
Danese Cooper wrote:
> Not that anybody asked me, but I think they WANT us to stop ASF Java
> development, no? A publicized cease code would seem to send the
> message that they've won.
>
> Danese
>
> On Aug 12, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:01 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>>
>>> Steve Loughran wrote:
>>>> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
>>> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
>>>> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product
>>>> release tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code
>>>> for the rest of august. Because there are other things out there,
>>>> and the one that interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start
>>>> the first erlang-related work at apache, I think
>>>
>>> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
>>> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
>>> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly
>>> enforced.
>>>
>>> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next
>>> step response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to realise
>>> that they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on
>>> Java to have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> I dunno. This seems like cutting of our nose... Java is "ours" as
>> much as it is "theirs". IMO, Sun is trying to re-position Java as
>> theirs, something they are allowing us to help them with, rather than
>> something that we've all come to collectively own over the last 7
>> years or so through our contributions. So I don't want to do
>> anything that adds any support to that idea....
>>
>> geir
>>
>>
--
Buni Meldware Communication Suite
http://buni.org
Multi-platform and extensible Email,
Calendaring (including freebusy),
Rich Webmail, Web-calendaring, ease
of installation/administration.
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Rory Winston <rw...@eircom.net>.
lol! I've been spending some time on Ruby and Haskell recently, and had
the same thoughts ;-)
Rory
Aaron Mulder wrote:
> Besides, after work with Ruby a bit, who would want to come *back* to Java? :)
>
> Thanks,
> Aaron
>
> On 8/12/07, Danese Cooper <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Not that anybody asked me, but I think they WANT us to stop ASF Java
>> development, no? A publicized cease code would seem to send the
>> message that they've won.
>>
>> Danese
>>
>> On Aug 12, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:01 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Steve Loughran wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
>>>>> There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
>>>>> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product
>>>>> release tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code
>>>>> for the rest of august. Because there are other things out there,
>>>>> and the one that interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start
>>>>> the first erlang-related work at apache, I think
>>>>>
>>>> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
>>>> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
>>>> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly
>>>> enforced.
>>>>
>>>> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next
>>>> step response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to
>>>> realise that they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on
>>>> Java to have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>> I dunno. This seems like cutting of our nose... Java is "ours"
>>> as much as it is "theirs". IMO, Sun is trying to re-position Java
>>> as theirs, something they are allowing us to help them with, rather
>>> than something that we've all come to collectively own over the
>>> last 7 years or so through our contributions. So I don't want to
>>> do anything that adds any support to that idea....
>>>
>>> geir
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Aaron Mulder <am...@alumni.princeton.edu>.
Besides, after work with Ruby a bit, who would want to come *back* to Java? :)
Thanks,
Aaron
On 8/12/07, Danese Cooper <da...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Not that anybody asked me, but I think they WANT us to stop ASF Java
> development, no? A publicized cease code would seem to send the
> message that they've won.
>
> Danese
>
> On Aug 12, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> >
> > On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:01 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> >
> >> Steve Loughran wrote:
> >>> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> >> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
> >>> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product
> >>> release tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code
> >>> for the rest of august. Because there are other things out there,
> >>> and the one that interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start
> >>> the first erlang-related work at apache, I think
> >>
> >> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> >> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> >> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly
> >> enforced.
> >>
> >> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next
> >> step response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to
> >> realise that they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
> >>
> >> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on
> >> Java to have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
> >>
> >> Any thoughts?
> >
> > I dunno. This seems like cutting of our nose... Java is "ours"
> > as much as it is "theirs". IMO, Sun is trying to re-position Java
> > as theirs, something they are allowing us to help them with, rather
> > than something that we've all come to collectively own over the
> > last 7 years or so through our contributions. So I don't want to
> > do anything that adds any support to that idea....
> >
> > geir
> >
> >
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Danese Cooper <da...@gmail.com>.
Not that anybody asked me, but I think they WANT us to stop ASF Java
development, no? A publicized cease code would seem to send the
message that they've won.
Danese
On Aug 12, 2007, at 7:03 AM, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
>
> On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:01 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
>
>> Steve Loughran wrote:
>>> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
>> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
>>> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product
>>> release tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code
>>> for the rest of august. Because there are other things out there,
>>> and the one that interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start
>>> the first erlang-related work at apache, I think
>>
>> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
>> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
>> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly
>> enforced.
>>
>> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next
>> step response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to
>> realise that they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>>
>> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on
>> Java to have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>
> I dunno. This seems like cutting of our nose... Java is "ours"
> as much as it is "theirs". IMO, Sun is trying to re-position Java
> as theirs, something they are allowing us to help them with, rather
> than something that we've all come to collectively own over the
> last 7 years or so through our contributions. So I don't want to
> do anything that adds any support to that idea....
>
> geir
>
>
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by "Geir Magnusson Jr." <ge...@pobox.com>.
On Aug 12, 2007, at 6:01 AM, Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> Steve Loughran wrote:
>> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
>> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product
>> release tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code
>> for the rest of august. Because there are other things out there,
>> and the one that interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start
>> the first erlang-related work at apache, I think
>
> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly
> enforced.
>
> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next
> step response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to
> realise that they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>
> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on
> Java to have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
>
> Any thoughts?
I dunno. This seems like cutting of our nose... Java is "ours" as
much as it is "theirs". IMO, Sun is trying to re-position Java as
theirs, something they are allowing us to help them with, rather than
something that we've all come to collectively own over the last 7
years or so through our contributions. So I don't want to do
anything that adds any support to that idea....
geir
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Sam Ruby <ru...@apache.org>.
On 8/13/07, Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> Possible actions
> 1. arrange for some erlang session at apachecon
> 2. start some collaborative erlang projects @apache.
> 3. start an erlang@apache.org mailing list. Sam?
As a general rule, the ASF have found project centric organizations to
be superior to language centric organizations.
> Here's some ideas of things to build
> 1. mod_erlang
> 2. something to make comms between java and erlang really easy (assume
> JSON over Jabber) so that people with legacy java systems can integrate
> with erlang infrastructure. If we support ruby too, we can treat java as
> a back end you have to deal with. The goal would be to make Java adopt
> the REST world view, not erlang/ruby embrace WS-*.
>
> #2 seems kind of cool to me. I will do some investigation there.
Those are good examples of projects.
- Sam Ruby
Re: [PROPOSAL] Suspend ASF Java development for one week
Posted by Steve Loughran <st...@apache.org>.
Stephen Colebourne wrote:
> Steve Loughran wrote:
>> But, Actions do speak louder than words sometimes [snip]
> > There's not much we can do in response, other than cut
>> back on java coding. Accordingly, after I make the next product
>> release tomorrow, I will stop writing a single line of Java code for
>> the rest of august. Because there are other things out there, and the
>> one that interests me has the name Erlang. Time to start the first
>> erlang-related work at apache, I think
>
> This comment, got me thinking... what if the ASF suspended Java
> development for one week (or even a month). It could be either a
> voluntary personal decision by each committer, or more strongly enforced.
>
> It would definitely get press attention, and would be a valid next step
> response from our side. It might also make Sun begin to realise that
> they lose if the ASF walks away from the JCP and Java.
>
> Perhaps the time could be used for the developers not working on Java to
> have a mini-hackathon in Scala or Erlang or Ruby...
Scala is in-JVM only, so not as strategically bad. Erlang, erlang I
like. Not just technically, politically. Look at the history of Erlang
http://delivery.acm.org/10.1145/1240000/1238850/supp/Erlang.pdf?key1=1238850&key2=5766986811&coll=ACM&dl=ACM&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618
http://patricklogan.blogspot.com/2007/08/bits-of-wisdon-hopl-iiis-history-of.html
A few years back ericsson stopped supporting it internally, forcing it
out into the wild. They set their child free. Admittedly, because they
thought Java was better, but they have seen the error of their ways
Possible actions
1. arrange for some erlang session at apachecon
2. start some collaborative erlang projects @apache.
3. start an erlang@apache.org mailing list. Sam?
Here's some ideas of things to build
1. mod_erlang
2. something to make comms between java and erlang really easy (assume
JSON over Jabber) so that people with legacy java systems can integrate
with erlang infrastructure. If we support ruby too, we can treat java as
a back end you have to deal with. The goal would be to make Java adopt
the REST world view, not erlang/ruby embrace WS-*.
#2 seems kind of cool to me. I will do some investigation there.