You are viewing a plain text version of this content. The canonical link for it is here.

Posted to user@couchdb.apache.org by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> on 2014/10/28 01:27:44 UTC

[DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
"showing you his crotch and inviting you over."

These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
its image in the open source community.

I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.

As a reminder here is our current logo:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png

Or in SVG:

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg

I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.

Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
reply to this thread that fixes the problem?

You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:

  https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/

-Joan

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Matthieu Rakotojaona <ma...@gmail.com>.

Excerpts from Joan Touzet's message of 2014-10-28 01:27:44 +0100:
> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> 
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
> 
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> 
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
> 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> 
> Or in SVG:
> 
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> 
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> 
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> 
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> 
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> 
> -Joan

Hey all,

Proposal: Put a remote controller in one hand, a bowl of popcorn in the
other. Kind of like this:

    http://us.123rf.com/450wm/bst2012/bst20121211/bst2012121112803/16093059-asian-man-eating-popcorn-on-sofa-with-remote-control.jpg

This should make the "relax" part more obvious, at the risk of going all
the way to "lazy", and remove any doubts about creepiness. Unfortunately
I have no graphics skills so I don't have a real svg to show you guys.

OTOH, as Jason said earlier, the appeal of "relax" is not singular to
CouchDB anymore (I'd say MongoDB has filled this niche of "install it
and don't think about it again until you grow"). The new CouchDB motto
is "The database that syncs", which is great. If we're to redesign the
logo, we should put this in some way in the logo. But I must say I have
absolutely no clue how to put this.

-- 
Matthieu Rakotojaona

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com>.

"I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it."

I never looked at it that way, but now that you mention it, I "can't un-see
it" either.  A new logo would also help refresh the the image of CouchDB
and possibly drive even more interest back into the project.  I would like
to see a completely new image, not just removing the lounging person.  A
name change is a bad idea in my opinion.


-- Nick

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

Oh, yep. Sigh.
On Oct 27, 2014 8:32 PM, "Joan Touzet" <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> Interesting, but those CouchBase jerks already did it:
>
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/Couchbase%2C_Inc._official_logo.png
>
> We might own the concept of Couch and the original red couch logo, but
> I am sure they'll get angry and make our lives difficult if we make ours
> look similar to theirs.
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Green" <db...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, "Joan Touzet" <wo...@apache.org>
> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 9:17:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
>
> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>
>
> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet < wohali@apache.org > wrote:
>
>
> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Javier Candeira <ja...@candeira.com>.

If the reclined dude has to go, why not someone of indeterminate
gender on a Lotus pose? Nothing says 'relax' like yoga, at least in
the popular imagination (I tried yoga once, and I was sweating inside
30 seconds).

J

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Dan Santner <da...@me.com> wrote:
> I actually like the current logo as is.
>
>
>> On Oct 27, 2014, at 8:49 PM, Manokaran K <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:57 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I am not sure the logo has to have the meaning be so obvious.  Looking at
>>> the world of other logos, it doesn't seem that meaning is that important to
>>> branding.  The two primary uses of a couch is to have people sit on it or
>>> lay on it.  I am not sure showing someone sprawled on a couch helps anyone
>>> make the connection to Relax anymore than the couch itself.
>>
>> If we accept that meaning should not be read in a logo, then we can
>> just ignore that the pose means anything :-)
>>
>> If we also accept that 'no publicity is bad publicity', then kicking
>> up a controversy like this can actually be good for CouchDB!
>>
>> Cheers,
>> mano
>>
>> --
>> Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
>> ~ Pablo Picasso

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Dan Santner <da...@me.com>.

I actually like the current logo as is.


> On Oct 27, 2014, at 8:49 PM, Manokaran K <ma...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:57 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am not sure the logo has to have the meaning be so obvious.  Looking at
>> the world of other logos, it doesn't seem that meaning is that important to
>> branding.  The two primary uses of a couch is to have people sit on it or
>> lay on it.  I am not sure showing someone sprawled on a couch helps anyone
>> make the connection to Relax anymore than the couch itself.
> 
> If we accept that meaning should not be read in a logo, then we can
> just ignore that the pose means anything :-)
> 
> If we also accept that 'no publicity is bad publicity', then kicking
> up a controversy like this can actually be good for CouchDB!
> 
> Cheers,
> mano
> 
> -- 
> Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
> ~ Pablo Picasso

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Manokaran K <ma...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:57 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not sure the logo has to have the meaning be so obvious.  Looking at
> the world of other logos, it doesn't seem that meaning is that important to
> branding.  The two primary uses of a couch is to have people sit on it or
> lay on it.  I am not sure showing someone sprawled on a couch helps anyone
> make the connection to Relax anymore than the couch itself.
>

If we accept that meaning should not be read in a logo, then we can
just ignore that the pose means anything :-)

If we also accept that 'no publicity is bad publicity', then kicking
up a controversy like this can actually be good for CouchDB!

Cheers,
mano

-- 
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
~ Pablo Picasso

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I am not sure the logo has to have the meaning be so obvious.  Looking at
the world of other logos, it doesn't seem that meaning is that important to
branding.  The two primary uses of a couch is to have people sit on it or
lay on it.  I am not sure showing someone sprawled on a couch helps anyone
make the connection to Relax anymore than the couch itself.

OTOH:  Maybe we just need to show the legs outstretched on the couch-- a
more sleeping position.  Of course that might mean couchdb is so slow you
can take a nap waiting on a query to return?    I should stay out of
marketing.  :-)

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If the person is removed the slogan loses its meaning.
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:17 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
> > and have some sort of stylized couch.
> >
> > Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> > > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > >
> > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> > > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > > its image in the open source community.
> > >
> > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > >
> > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> > >
> > > Or in SVG:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> > >
> > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps
> the
> > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> > > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> > > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> > >
> > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > >
> > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > >
> > >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > >
> > > -Joan
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andrey Cherkashin <an...@gmail.com>.

My first thought was exactly the same. Whoever is sitting on that couch is as relaxed as it gets because one has nothing to worry about. Plus, if we go down this road — there is no signs that it’s man. 
-- 
Andrey Cherkashin
Sent with Airmail

On October 27, 2014 at 6:22:22 PM, Giovanni P (fiatjaf@gmail.com) wrote:

If the person is removed the slogan loses its meaning.  

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:17 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>  
wrote:  

> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether  
> and have some sort of stylized couch.  
>  
> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"  
>  
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:  
>  
> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,  
> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people  
> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks  
> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,  
> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."  
> >  
> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -  
> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and  
> > its image in the open source community.  
> >  
> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the  
> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.  
> >  
> > As a reminder here is our current logo:  
> >  
> >  
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png  
> >  
> > Or in SVG:  
> >  
> >  
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg  
> >  
> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the  
> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose  
> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,  
> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.  
> >  
> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't  
> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an  
> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in  
> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?  
> >  
> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:  
> >  
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/  
> >  
> > -Joan  
> >  
> >  
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andrey Cherkashin <an...@gmail.com>.

My first thought was exactly the same. Whoever is sitting on that couch is as relaxed as it gets because one has nothing to worry about. Plus, if we go down this road — there is no signs that it’s man. 
-- 
Andrey Cherkashin
Sent with Airmail

On October 27, 2014 at 6:22:22 PM, Giovanni P (fiatjaf@gmail.com) wrote:

If the person is removed the slogan loses its meaning.  

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:17 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>  
wrote:  

> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether  
> and have some sort of stylized couch.  
>  
> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"  
>  
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:  
>  
> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,  
> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people  
> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks  
> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,  
> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."  
> >  
> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -  
> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and  
> > its image in the open source community.  
> >  
> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the  
> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.  
> >  
> > As a reminder here is our current logo:  
> >  
> >  
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png  
> >  
> > Or in SVG:  
> >  
> >  
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg  
> >  
> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the  
> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose  
> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,  
> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.  
> >  
> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't  
> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an  
> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in  
> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?  
> >  
> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:  
> >  
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/  
> >  
> > -Joan  
> >  
> >  
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com>.

If the person is removed the slogan loses its meaning.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:17 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>
> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >
> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > its image in the open source community.
> >
> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >
> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >
> > Or in SVG:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >
> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >
> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >
> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >
> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com>.

If the person is removed the slogan loses its meaning.

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 11:17 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>
> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >
> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > its image in the open source community.
> >
> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >
> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >
> > Or in SVG:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >
> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >
> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >
> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >
> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

Great idea.  Free work by people who are good at it and doesn't cut into
time of other devs.  Additionally, we get to vote on if we want to use any
of it.  Seems like a no-brainer and stops the bike-shedding.

Bryan
On Oct 29, 2014 5:13 PM, "Joan Touzet" <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> FYI after the multiple suggestions we have someone competent look at
> logo design, I've asked Sean Barclay, lead UX at Cloudant, to have his
> team look at working up some possible logo ideas. They have the talent
> that we don't, and the interest in exploring new designs.  They've also
> been working up some colour designs and schemes for Fauxton, so it can't
> hurt to have this work done in the same scope.  Sounds like they'll have
> time to look at it starting next week.
>
> Obviously we are under no obligation to accept anything they do.  But it
> can't hurt to have them explore it.
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:57:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> Alex,
>
> it is a serious topic and it should be discussed. I am against taking it to
> the side. I know there are many other topics the community is working on.
> But this is important also.
>
> Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the man
> from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about starting
> a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
> choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
> decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...
>
> The winner would receive the honour to be the creator of the new CouchDB
> logo and would be mentioned prominently.
>
> What do others think about this idea?
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
> > the right way to handle problems? Are you sure that removing a relaxed
> > person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? Changing
> > color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.
> >
> > I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
> > since it isn't broken, people likes it and there is no urgency on
> > this. We have more important issues to work on.
> >
> > --
> > ,,,^..^,,,
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > > Hi folks!
> > >
> > > (Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.)
> > >
> > > CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it
> > > if we want to make changes.
> > >
> > > I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But
> > > that's because I'm attached to our brand.
> > >
> > > It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him.
> > > (It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we
> > > adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to
> > > mention that he is white.
> > >
> > > So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually
> > > suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this
> > > certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we
> > > want to build going forward.
> > >
> > > I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is
> > > good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a
> > > fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an
> > > evolution of our brand as well as our product.
> > >
> > > I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to
> > > differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that
> > > they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer
> > > in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;)
> > >
> > > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> > > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> > > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> > > big will be expensive.
> > >
> > > Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive
> > > change though.
> > >
> > > On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What
> > exactly
> > >> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript
> have
> > >> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they
> can
> > >> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on
> the
> > >> server.
> > >>
> > >> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
> > >> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
> > >> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan
> > would
> > >> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she
> > has a
> > >> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.
> > >>
> > >> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about
> > the
> > >> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is
> doing
> > >> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and
> > that is
> > >> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
> > >> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.
> > >>
> > >> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine
> > with
> > >> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep
> the
> > >> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
> > >> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
> > >> before, there are some good arguments.)
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of
> "relax."
> > >>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think
> > of
> > >>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
> > >>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not
> for
> > the
> > >>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
> > >>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the
> > person]Bryan
> > >>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting
> just
> > to
> > >>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> > >>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> > >>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> > >>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> > >>> ------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person
> > altogether
> > >>> and have some sort of stylized couch.
> > >>>
> > >>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
> > >>>
> > >>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > >>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > >>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo
> > looks
> > >>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put
> it,
> > >>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > >>> >
> > >>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over
> drinks
> > -
> > >>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB
> and
> > >>> > its image in the open source community.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > >>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Or in SVG:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> > >>> >
> > >>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that
> keeps
> > the
> > >>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> > pose
> > >>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> > naturally,
> > >>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I
> can't
> > >>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're
> an
> > >>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo
> in
> > >>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > >>> >
> > >>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > >>> >
> > >>> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > >>> >
> > >>> > -Joan
> > >>> >
> > >>> >
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Noah Slater
> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

see inline please ...

On 30 October 2014 00:48, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
> > the right way to handle problems?
>
> I'm not too worried about offending people. My concern here is about
> the image we project to the outside world. I want to send the message
> that we're an inclusive, welcoming group of people. Evidently, some
> people are looking at the logo, seeing something that some of us have
> not seen before, and thinking "hmm, doesn't seem like I belong there."
>
> > Are you sure that removing a relaxed
> > person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)?
>
> It's our logo. I think we can remove the dude from it fairly harmlessly. :)
>
> > Changing color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.
>
> Good point.
>
> > I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
> > since it isn't broken, people likes it
>
> Actually, what started this thread was a number of individuals feeling
> comfortable enough to speak to Joan about their perception of our
> logo. One which I now share. So I'd say it is broken, and needs
> fixing.
>
> > and there is no urgency on this
>
> There is some urgency here. 2.0 is our best shot at a successful rebrand.
>
> > We have more important issues to work on.
>
> Please don't derail this effort. We're not all required to work on the
> same thing. Other people are free to continue working on whatever part
> of the project interests them.
>
> On 29 October 2014 23:12, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We already did: no serious issues were found, people likes current
> > one
>
> That's not the view I have of this thread. It seems to me like there
> was a broad consensus that we look into this.
>
> > Also moving this proposal out of community-driven users@ to developers
> > specific ML is not fair since you strips the feedback of significant
> > part of our users.
>
> users@ is a support forum for end-users of CouchDB. It's not the
> appropriate place to solicit feedback on (potentially controversial)
> rebranding efforts. It was already turning into a bit of a peanut
> gallery type thing.
>

+1


> On 29 October 2014 22:57, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the
> man
> > from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about
> starting
> > a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
> > choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
> > decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...
>
> Seems to me like the obvious approach. But I'm also very interested to
> see what Sean comes up with. So thanks for that, Joan!
>
>
Yes definitely - super cool from Joan. I would have liked to ask our
Designer as well but I am afraid they can't find a timeslot ....




> On 29 October 2014 23:12, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> > FYI after the multiple suggestions we have someone competent look at
> > logo design, I've asked Sean Barclay, lead UX at Cloudant, to have his
> > team look at working up some possible logo ideas. They have the talent
> > that we don't, and the interest in exploring new designs.  They've also
> > been working up some colour designs and schemes for Fauxton, so it can't
> > hurt to have this work done in the same scope.  Sounds like they'll have
> > time to look at it starting next week.
> >
> > Obviously we are under no obligation to accept anything they do.  But it
> > can't hurt to have them explore it.
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:57:34 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >
> > Alex,
> >
> > it is a serious topic and it should be discussed. I am against taking it
> to
> > the side. I know there are many other topics the community is working on.
> > But this is important also.
> >
> > Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the
> man
> > from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about
> starting
> > a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
> > choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
> > decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...
> >
> > The winner would receive the honour to be the creator of the new CouchDB
> > logo and would be mentioned prominently.
> >
> > What do others think about this idea?
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
> >> the right way to handle problems? Are you sure that removing a relaxed
> >> person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? Changing
> >> color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.
> >>
> >> I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
> >> since it isn't broken, people likes it and there is no urgency on
> >> this. We have more important issues to work on.
> >>
> >> --
> >> ,,,^..^,,,
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > Hi folks!
> >> >
> >> > (Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.)
> >> >
> >> > CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it
> >> > if we want to make changes.
> >> >
> >> > I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But
> >> > that's because I'm attached to our brand.
> >> >
> >> > It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him.
> >> > (It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we
> >> > adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to
> >> > mention that he is white.
> >> >
> >> > So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually
> >> > suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this
> >> > certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we
> >> > want to build going forward.
> >> >
> >> > I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is
> >> > good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a
> >> > fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an
> >> > evolution of our brand as well as our product.
> >> >
> >> > I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to
> >> > differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that
> >> > they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer
> >> > in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;)
> >> >
> >> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> >> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> >> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> >> > big will be expensive.
> >> >
> >> > Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive
> >> > change though.
> >> >
> >> > On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What
> >> exactly
> >> >> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript
> have
> >> >> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they
> can
> >> >> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on
> the
> >> >> server.
> >> >>
> >> >> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
> >> >> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
> >> >> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan
> >> would
> >> >> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she
> >> has a
> >> >> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.
> >> >>
> >> >> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about
> >> the
> >> >> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is
> doing
> >> >> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and
> >> that is
> >> >> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
> >> >> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine
> >> with
> >> >> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep
> the
> >> >> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put
> a
> >> >> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been
> discussed
> >> >> before, there are some good arguments.)
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of
> "relax."
> >> >>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to
> think
> >> of
> >> >>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
> >> >>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not
> for
> >> the
> >> >>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
> >> >>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the
> >> person]Bryan
> >> >>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting
> just
> >> to
> >> >>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
> >> >>>
> >> >>> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> >> >>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> >> >>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> >> >>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
> >> >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >>> ------------------------------
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person
> >> altogether
> >> >>> and have some sort of stylized couch.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON
> 2014,
> >> >>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> >> >>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo
> >> looks
> >> >>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put
> it,
> >> >>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over
> drinks
> >> -
> >> >>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB
> and
> >> >>> > its image in the open source community.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> >> >>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Or in SVG:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that
> keeps
> >> the
> >> >>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> >> pose
> >> >>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> >> naturally,
> >> >>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least
> objections.
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I
> can't
> >> >>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If
> you're an
> >> >>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo
> in
> >> >>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> > -Joan
> >> >>> >
> >> >>> >
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Noah Slater
> >> > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andy Wenk
> > Hamburg - Germany
> > RockIt!
> >
> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >
> >  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
> the right way to handle problems?

I'm not too worried about offending people. My concern here is about
the image we project to the outside world. I want to send the message
that we're an inclusive, welcoming group of people. Evidently, some
people are looking at the logo, seeing something that some of us have
not seen before, and thinking "hmm, doesn't seem like I belong there."

> Are you sure that removing a relaxed
> person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)?

It's our logo. I think we can remove the dude from it fairly harmlessly. :)

> Changing color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.

Good point.

> I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
> since it isn't broken, people likes it

Actually, what started this thread was a number of individuals feeling
comfortable enough to speak to Joan about their perception of our
logo. One which I now share. So I'd say it is broken, and needs
fixing.

> and there is no urgency on this

There is some urgency here. 2.0 is our best shot at a successful rebrand.

> We have more important issues to work on.

Please don't derail this effort. We're not all required to work on the
same thing. Other people are free to continue working on whatever part
of the project interests them.

On 29 October 2014 23:12, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We already did: no serious issues were found, people likes current
> one

That's not the view I have of this thread. It seems to me like there
was a broad consensus that we look into this.

> Also moving this proposal out of community-driven users@ to developers
> specific ML is not fair since you strips the feedback of significant
> part of our users.

users@ is a support forum for end-users of CouchDB. It's not the
appropriate place to solicit feedback on (potentially controversial)
rebranding efforts. It was already turning into a bit of a peanut
gallery type thing.

On 29 October 2014 22:57, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:

> Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the man
> from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about starting
> a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
> choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
> decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...

Seems to me like the obvious approach. But I'm also very interested to
see what Sean comes up with. So thanks for that, Joan!

On 29 October 2014 23:12, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> FYI after the multiple suggestions we have someone competent look at
> logo design, I've asked Sean Barclay, lead UX at Cloudant, to have his
> team look at working up some possible logo ideas. They have the talent
> that we don't, and the interest in exploring new designs.  They've also
> been working up some colour designs and schemes for Fauxton, so it can't
> hurt to have this work done in the same scope.  Sounds like they'll have
> time to look at it starting next week.
>
> Obviously we are under no obligation to accept anything they do.  But it
> can't hurt to have them explore it.
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:57:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> Alex,
>
> it is a serious topic and it should be discussed. I am against taking it to
> the side. I know there are many other topics the community is working on.
> But this is important also.
>
> Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the man
> from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about starting
> a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
> choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
> decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...
>
> The winner would receive the honour to be the creator of the new CouchDB
> logo and would be mentioned prominently.
>
> What do others think about this idea?
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
>> the right way to handle problems? Are you sure that removing a relaxed
>> person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? Changing
>> color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.
>>
>> I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
>> since it isn't broken, people likes it and there is no urgency on
>> this. We have more important issues to work on.
>>
>> --
>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > Hi folks!
>> >
>> > (Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.)
>> >
>> > CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it
>> > if we want to make changes.
>> >
>> > I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But
>> > that's because I'm attached to our brand.
>> >
>> > It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him.
>> > (It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we
>> > adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to
>> > mention that he is white.
>> >
>> > So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually
>> > suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this
>> > certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we
>> > want to build going forward.
>> >
>> > I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is
>> > good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a
>> > fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an
>> > evolution of our brand as well as our product.
>> >
>> > I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to
>> > differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that
>> > they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer
>> > in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;)
>> >
>> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
>> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
>> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
>> > big will be expensive.
>> >
>> > Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive
>> > change though.
>> >
>> > On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What
>> exactly
>> >> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript have
>> >> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they can
>> >> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on the
>> >> server.
>> >>
>> >> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
>> >> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
>> >> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan
>> would
>> >> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she
>> has a
>> >> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.
>> >>
>> >> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about
>> the
>> >> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is doing
>> >> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and
>> that is
>> >> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
>> >> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.
>> >>
>> >> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine
>> with
>> >> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep the
>> >> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
>> >> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
>> >> before, there are some good arguments.)
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
>> >>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think
>> of
>> >>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
>> >>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for
>> the
>> >>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
>> >>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the
>> person]Bryan
>> >>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting just
>> to
>> >>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
>> >>>
>> >>> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>> >>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
>> >>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
>> >>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >>> ------------------------------
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person
>> altogether
>> >>> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>> >>>
>> >>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
>> >>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
>> >>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo
>> looks
>> >>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
>> >>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>> >>> >
>> >>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks
>> -
>> >>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
>> >>> > its image in the open source community.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
>> >>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Or in SVG:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps
>> the
>> >>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
>> pose
>> >>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
>> naturally,
>> >>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
>> >>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
>> >>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
>> >>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>> >>> >
>> >>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>> >>> >
>> >>> > -Joan
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Noah Slater
>> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

FYI after the multiple suggestions we have someone competent look at
logo design, I've asked Sean Barclay, lead UX at Cloudant, to have his
team look at working up some possible logo ideas. They have the talent
that we don't, and the interest in exploring new designs.  They've also
been working up some colour designs and schemes for Fauxton, so it can't
hurt to have this work done in the same scope.  Sounds like they'll have
time to look at it starting next week.

Obviously we are under no obligation to accept anything they do.  But it
can't hurt to have them explore it.

-Joan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 5:57:34 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Alex,

it is a serious topic and it should be discussed. I am against taking it to
the side. I know there are many other topics the community is working on.
But this is important also.

Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the man
from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about starting
a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...

The winner would receive the honour to be the creator of the new CouchDB
logo and would be mentioned prominently.

What do others think about this idea?

Cheers

Andy

On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
> the right way to handle problems? Are you sure that removing a relaxed
> person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? Changing
> color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.
>
> I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
> since it isn't broken, people likes it and there is no urgency on
> this. We have more important issues to work on.
>
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Hi folks!
> >
> > (Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.)
> >
> > CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it
> > if we want to make changes.
> >
> > I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But
> > that's because I'm attached to our brand.
> >
> > It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him.
> > (It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we
> > adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to
> > mention that he is white.
> >
> > So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually
> > suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this
> > certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we
> > want to build going forward.
> >
> > I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is
> > good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a
> > fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an
> > evolution of our brand as well as our product.
> >
> > I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to
> > differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that
> > they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer
> > in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;)
> >
> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> > big will be expensive.
> >
> > Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive
> > change though.
> >
> > On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What
> exactly
> >> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript have
> >> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they can
> >> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on the
> >> server.
> >>
> >> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
> >> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
> >> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan
> would
> >> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she
> has a
> >> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.
> >>
> >> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about
> the
> >> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is doing
> >> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and
> that is
> >> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
> >> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.
> >>
> >> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine
> with
> >> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep the
> >> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
> >> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
> >> before, there are some good arguments.)
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
> >>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think
> of
> >>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
> >>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for
> the
> >>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
> >>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the
> person]Bryan
> >>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting just
> to
> >>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
> >>>
> >>> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> >>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> >>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> >>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person
> altogether
> >>> and have some sort of stylized couch.
> >>>
> >>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> >>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> >>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo
> looks
> >>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> >>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >>> >
> >>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks
> -
> >>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> >>> > its image in the open source community.
> >>> >
> >>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> >>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >>> >
> >>> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >>> >
> >>> > Or in SVG:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >>> >
> >>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps
> the
> >>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> pose
> >>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> naturally,
> >>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >>> >
> >>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> >>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> >>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> >>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >>> >
> >>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >>> >
> >>> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >>> >
> >>> > -Joan
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Noah Slater
> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:57 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> it is a serious topic and it should be discussed. I am against taking it to
> the side. I know there are many other topics the community is working on.
> But this is important also.

We already did: no serious issues were found, people likes current
one, we don't have masses of accidentally hurted by our logo for
years. At some point the discussion need to stop, summarize it, make a
resume and if you still don't like the results raise it again after
some time.

Also moving this proposal out of community-driven users@ to developers
specific ML is not fair since you strips the feedback of significant
part of our users.

> Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the man
> from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about starting
> a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
> choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
> decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...
>
> The winner would receive the honour to be the creator of the new CouchDB
> logo and would be mentioned prominently.
>
> What do others think about this idea?

+1

--
,,,^..^,,,

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

Alex,

it is a serious topic and it should be discussed. I am against taking it to
the side. I know there are many other topics the community is working on.
But this is important also.

Noah, I don't think we will have any advantage if we simply remove the man
from the logo. I prefer to let a designer work on this. How about starting
a call for new logo? Let's make a small competition and let the community
choose the logo out of a preselection. We should for sure find a way to
decline the vote for a new logo if it really sucks ...

The winner would receive the honour to be the creator of the new CouchDB
logo and would be mentioned prominently.

What do others think about this idea?

Cheers

Andy

On 29 October 2014 22:37, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
> the right way to handle problems? Are you sure that removing a relaxed
> person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? Changing
> color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.
>
> I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
> since it isn't broken, people likes it and there is no urgency on
> this. We have more important issues to work on.
>
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Hi folks!
> >
> > (Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.)
> >
> > CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it
> > if we want to make changes.
> >
> > I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But
> > that's because I'm attached to our brand.
> >
> > It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him.
> > (It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we
> > adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to
> > mention that he is white.
> >
> > So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually
> > suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this
> > certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we
> > want to build going forward.
> >
> > I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is
> > good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a
> > fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an
> > evolution of our brand as well as our product.
> >
> > I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to
> > differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that
> > they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer
> > in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;)
> >
> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> > big will be expensive.
> >
> > Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive
> > change though.
> >
> > On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What
> exactly
> >> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript have
> >> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they can
> >> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on the
> >> server.
> >>
> >> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
> >> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
> >> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan
> would
> >> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she
> has a
> >> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.
> >>
> >> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about
> the
> >> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is doing
> >> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and
> that is
> >> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
> >> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.
> >>
> >> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine
> with
> >> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep the
> >> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
> >> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
> >> before, there are some good arguments.)
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
> >>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think
> of
> >>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
> >>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for
> the
> >>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
> >>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the
> person]Bryan
> >>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting just
> to
> >>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
> >>>
> >>> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> >>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> >>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> >>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person
> altogether
> >>> and have some sort of stylized couch.
> >>>
> >>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> >>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> >>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo
> looks
> >>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> >>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >>> >
> >>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks
> -
> >>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> >>> > its image in the open source community.
> >>> >
> >>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> >>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >>> >
> >>> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >>> >
> >>> > Or in SVG:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >>> >
> >>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps
> the
> >>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> pose
> >>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> naturally,
> >>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >>> >
> >>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> >>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> >>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> >>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >>> >
> >>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >>> >
> >>> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >>> >
> >>> > -Joan
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Noah Slater
> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

Why do you think that following of bad imaginations of the few ones is
the right way to handle problems? Are you sure that removing a relaxed
person won't cause any other branding issues (hi Couchbase!)? Changing
color to blue - looks like we're going to cross Cloudant street.

I suggest to not rush in this question and leave it as is for now
since it isn't broken, people likes it and there is no urgency on
this. We have more important issues to work on.

--
,,,^..^,,,


On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:52 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi folks!
>
> (Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.)
>
> CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it
> if we want to make changes.
>
> I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But
> that's because I'm attached to our brand.
>
> It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him.
> (It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we
> adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to
> mention that he is white.
>
> So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually
> suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this
> certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we
> want to build going forward.
>
> I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is
> good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a
> fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an
> evolution of our brand as well as our product.
>
> I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to
> differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that
> they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer
> in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;)
>
> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> big will be expensive.
>
> Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive
> change though.
>
> On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What exactly
>> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript have
>> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they can
>> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on the
>> server.
>>
>> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
>> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
>> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan would
>> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she has a
>> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.
>>
>> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about the
>> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is doing
>> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and that is
>> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
>> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.
>>
>> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine with
>> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep the
>> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
>> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
>> before, there are some good arguments.)
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
>>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think of
>>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
>>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for the
>>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
>>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person]Bryan
>>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting just to
>>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
>>>
>>> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
>>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
>>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
>>> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>>>
>>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
>>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
>>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
>>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
>>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>>> >
>>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
>>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
>>> > its image in the open source community.
>>> >
>>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
>>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>>> >
>>> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>>> >
>>> > Or in SVG:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>>> >
>>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
>>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
>>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
>>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>>> >
>>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
>>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
>>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
>>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>>> >
>>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>>> >
>>> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>>> >
>>> > -Joan
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Change the name!

OuchDB? (:

--
,,,^..^,,,

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

I don't like to change the name ... -1

On 30 October 2014 11:09, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> *SyncDB*
> The database that syncs.
>
> Logo would embody that idea.
>
>
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26
> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache]Jason
> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah
> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>
> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> > big will be expensive.
> >
>
> Change the name! Change the name!
>
> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all wonder
> what we were so worried about.
>
> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength can we
> keep, and how much do we lose.
>
> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of attention
> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't enough, we
> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
> trademark problems.
>
> Change the name!
>
>


-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

This, posted a few minutes ago, is a timely reminder:

https://twitter.com/symbiat/status/527904348542873600

Fairly representative. :)

On 30 October 2014 20:02, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> Here, here, Joan.
>
> Let's wait for submissions, and wait for Sean.
>
> Then once we have a bevy of suggestions we can put the entire matter to a poll.
>
> On 30 October 2014 19:05, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as it's not
>> a developer-related issue.
>>
>> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
>> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol, please post
>> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official announcement
>> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
>>
>> -Joan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>
>> Jan,
>>
>> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts as well
>>
>> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I was not
>> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue but am
>> still -1 in changing the name
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded MUAs
>>> :/
>>>
>>>
>>> > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > I was replying to this thread:
>>> >
>>> > Andy:
>>> >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>> > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>> rename
>>> > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>> >
>>> > Noah:
>>> >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>> >
>>> > Andy:
>>> >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>>> > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who
>>> think
>>> > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name
>>> and
>>> > clarify the situation as often as possible
>>> >
>>> > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
>>> >>
>>> >> Best
>>> >> Jan
>>> >> --
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> No, because of the name.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
>>> >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
>>> >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Best
>>> >>>> Jan
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see
>>> the
>>> >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML
>>> who think
>>> >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the
>>> name and
>>> >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
>>> whatever
>>> >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
>>> with a
>>> >>>>>>> rename
>>> >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an
>>> arbitrary
>>> >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it
>>> is worth
>>> >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it,
>>> if it
>>> >>>>>>> is to
>>> >>>>>>>>> be done.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
>>> nslater@apache.org>
>>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf.
>>> Max
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
>>> kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>> >>>>>>>>> everything
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>> >>>>>>> references)
>>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do
>>> you
>>> >>>>>>> want
>>> >>>>>>>>> to
>>> >>>>>>>>>> be
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from
>>> the
>>> >>>>>>>>> current
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the
>>> last
>>> >>>>>>>>> time I
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>> >>>>>>> 04:40:26
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
>>> <nslater@apache
>>> >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at
>>> 12:52 AM,
>>> >>>>>>>>> Noah
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
>>> nslater@apache.org>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name
>>> too.
>>> >>>>>>> I
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>> >>>>>>>>> important
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and
>>> changing it
>>> >>>>>>> in
>>> >>>>>>>>> a
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we
>>> will
>>> >>>>>>> all
>>> >>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that
>>> strength
>>> >>>>>>>>> can
>>> >>>>>>>>>> we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons
>>> of
>>> >>>>>>>>>> attention
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already
>>> isn't
>>> >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding
>>> baggage and
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>> >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>> >>>>>>>> RockIt!
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>> >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>> >>>>>> RockIt!
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> Noah Slater
>>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Noah Slater
>>> >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Noah Slater
>>> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>>
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>
>>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

Here, here, Joan.

Let's wait for submissions, and wait for Sean.

Then once we have a bevy of suggestions we can put the entire matter to a poll.

On 30 October 2014 19:05, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as it's not
> a developer-related issue.
>
> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol, please post
> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official announcement
> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> Jan,
>
> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts as well
>
> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I was not
> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue but am
> still -1 in changing the name
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded MUAs
>> :/
>>
>>
>> > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I was replying to this thread:
>> >
>> > Andy:
>> >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>> > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>> rename
>> > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >
>> > Noah:
>> >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> >
>> > Andy:
>> >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>> > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who
>> think
>> > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name
>> and
>> > clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >
>> > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
>> >>
>> >> Best
>> >> Jan
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> No, because of the name.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
>> >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
>> >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best
>> >>>> Jan
>> >>>> --
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see
>> the
>> >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML
>> who think
>> >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the
>> name and
>> >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
>> whatever
>> >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
>> with a
>> >>>>>>> rename
>> >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an
>> arbitrary
>> >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it
>> is worth
>> >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it,
>> if it
>> >>>>>>> is to
>> >>>>>>>>> be done.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
>> nslater@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf.
>> Max
>> >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
>> kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>> >>>>>>>>> everything
>> >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>> >>>>>>> references)
>> >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do
>> you
>> >>>>>>> want
>> >>>>>>>>> to
>> >>>>>>>>>> be
>> >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from
>> the
>> >>>>>>>>> current
>> >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the
>> last
>> >>>>>>>>> time I
>> >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>> >>>>>>> 04:40:26
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
>> <nslater@apache
>> >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at
>> 12:52 AM,
>> >>>>>>>>> Noah
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
>> nslater@apache.org>
>> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name
>> too.
>> >>>>>>> I
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>> >>>>>>>>> important
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and
>> changing it
>> >>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>>> a
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we
>> will
>> >>>>>>> all
>> >>>>>>>>>> wonder
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that
>> strength
>> >>>>>>>>> can
>> >>>>>>>>>> we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons
>> of
>> >>>>>>>>>> attention
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already
>> isn't
>> >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding
>> baggage and
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >>>>>>>> RockIt!
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> --
>> >>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >>>>>> RockIt!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Noah Slater
>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Noah Slater
>> >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Noah Slater
>> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.

> On 04 Nov 2014, at 15:59 , Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> 
> Would advocate for the sync idea to lead, and let the couch be a subtle thing in the mark (like the arrow in the FedEx logo).
> 
> For example, there's a couch hiding in here, but the lead is sync:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nqptqjrupj54no/2014-11-04%2009.54.55.jpg?dl=0
> 
> How much the couch hides would be fun to explore.

I do like this angle :)


> 
> - Brad
> 
> 
> 
> Noah Slater ---11/04/2014 09:49:00 AM---I really like this idea of two couches meeting, as if the "sync" is something that's going on betwee
> 
> From:	Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> To:	"dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> Date:	11/04/2014 09:49 AM
> Subject:	Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> 
> 
> 
> I really like this idea of two couches meeting, as if the "sync" is
> something that's going on between two humans sitting on couches that
> face each other. I think that's a great concept to explore. Thanks!
> 
> On 2 November 2014 22:03, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> > I'm in line with Andy on the blue, probably not good messaging.
> >
> > Green is PouchDB's colour so best to let them use that, too.
> >
> > Red, dark red, orange are fine by me.
> >
> > I also agree that the last row is the best, I don't like the "ouchDB"
> > that people might read if they don't know that the semicircular thing is
> > a C.
> >
> > Short story: Many years ago I worked for Soma Networks. Their first logo
> > was a perfect circle with two sorta offset symbols on top of it.  They
> > used to position the logo to the left of the Soma Networks text.
> >
> >   http://www.huntingtonventures.com/images/logos/soma.gif
> >
> > TSA started stopping our employees at the US border who were wearing
> > shirts/jackets with the logo: "Wait, you work for OSAMA NETWORKS?" >_<
> >
> > After that, the logo was moved directly above the Soma Networks text
> > so all confusion was removed...at great expense to reprint everything...
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> > Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2014 3:51:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >
> > Nick,
> >
> > thanks 1000 times for taking the action and create these ideas. This is
> > what we need to find a route to a "maybe" new logo. Everything I write
> > below is very direct and I ask you very much to take it as my personal view
> > and as constructive criticism. Again - I highly appreciate your work!
> >
> > I have to admit, that I don't like the first and second ideas. I simply
> > read OuchDB (Alex mentioned it before). Imho it's a no go.
> >
> > The third line is a better idea but is not better that what we have. It is
> > definitely very modern. Some words to the colours (last row):
> >
> > * sorry I don't like green ;-)
> > * orange is not strong enough as a colour
> > * blue is cool but is Cloudant's main colour an also used heavily by
> > Couchbase (http://www.couchbase.com/).
> > * red ... is what I like
> > * dark red and red is ... hm ... dunno - I don't like it too much
> >
> > The only colours I like is blue and red. But blue can have some problems
> > like:
> >
> > * it's Cloudant's colour
> > * Cloudant does now belong to IBM
> > * IBM is blue
> > * ah - CouchDB is also blue now - maybe they are now a IBM OpenSource
> > Project?
> > * ... ähm ... nope!
> >
> > I think that IF we create a new logo, we should keep a "link" to the old
> > one in some way. I am afraid I don't see this here ...
> >
> > Thanks a lot and Cheers
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > On 1 November 2014 10:09, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> OuchDB! You made it (:
> >> Circular designs are really nice: they have the project name, two
> >> curved couches directed to each other suggests party communication /
> >> data replication and multiple colours allows to fit it surrounding
> >> environment better.  Though we're seems going to drop Relax moto...
> >> --
> >> ,,,^..^,,,
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM,  <ju...@villageonline.info> wrote:
> >> > Hi Nick,
> >> >
> >> > These look great.
> >> >
> >> > I like the circular designs - how would these look with the current
> >> colours (ie Reds, white and black) ?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Justin
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: Nick Pavlica [mailto:linicks@gmail.com]
> >> > Sent: 31 October 2014 23:49
> >> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org; andywenk@apache.org
> >> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >
> >> > All,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hey Nick,
> >> >>
> >> >> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could
> >> >> you share it via link?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >   Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is a
> >> link to the attachment in Dropbox:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0
> >> >
> >> >   -- Nick
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >>
> >> >> Andy
> >> >>
> >> >> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > All,
> >> >> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this
> >> >> > discussion forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away
> >> >> > from the couch with the human figure on it, and go with a top view
> >> >> > of a circular, or conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I
> >> >> > tried to stay true to
> >> >> the
> >> >> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of
> >> >> > course this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Regards,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > -- Nick Pavlica
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as
> >> >> >> it's
> >> >> not
> >> >> >> a developer-related issue.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
> >> >> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol,
> >> >> >> please
> >> >> post
> >> >> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
> >> >> announcement
> >> >> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -Joan
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> >> >> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> >> >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Jan,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts
> >> >> >> as
> >> >> well
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I
> >> >> >> was
> >> >> not
> >> >> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue
> >> >> >> but
> >> >> am
> >> >> >> still -1 in changing the name
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Cheers
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Andy
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for
> >> >> >> > non-threaded
> >> >> >> MUAs
> >> >> >> > :/
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Andy:
> >> >> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give
> >> >> >> > >> my
> >> >> >> whatever
> >> >> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
> >> >> >> > > with a
> >> >> >> > rename
> >> >> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Noah:
> >> >> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > Andy:
> >> >> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly
> >> >> >> > >> see
> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the
> >> >> >> > > ML
> >> >> who
> >> >> >> > think
> >> >> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
> >> >> >> > > the
> >> >> >> name
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >> Best
> >> >> >> > >> Jan
> >> >> >> > >> --
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
> >> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and
> >> >> >> > >>>>> shows no
> >> >> >> signs
> >> >> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
> >> >> >> coming up
> >> >> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>> Best
> >> >> >> > >>>> Jan
> >> >> >> > >>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> clearly
> >> >> see
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> >> ML
> >> >> >> > who think
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> keep
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > name and
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> give
> >> >> my
> >> >> >> > whatever
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> to get
> >> >> >> > with a
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> rename
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
> >> >> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> out
> >> >> an
> >> >> >> > arbitrary
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. But
> >> >> >> it
> >> >> >> > is worth
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to do
> >> >> >> it,
> >> >> >> > if it
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> is to
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> >> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now.
> >> >> (cf.
> >> >> >> > Max
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> >> >> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already
> >> "cooked"
> >> >> >> into
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> hard
> >> >> copy
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> references)
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> long
> >> >> do
> >> >> >> > you
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> want
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> users
> >> >> from
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> And
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > last
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
> >> >> >> blue....
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble"
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <br...@us.ibm.com>
> >> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
> >> >> ---10/30/2014
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> >> >> >> > <nslater@apache
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30,
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 at
> >> >> >> > 12:52 AM,
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> :)
> >> >> But
> >> >> >> the
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org"
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> >> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> >> >> name
> >> >> >> > too.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> I
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the
> >> time.
> >> >> >> It's
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand,
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >> >> >> > changing it
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> in
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> done
> >> >> we
> >> >> >> > will
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> all
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >> >> that
> >> >> >> > strength
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >> >> >> tons
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
> >> >> already
> >> >> >> > isn't
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> branding
> >> >> >> > baggage and
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> 9ED3
> >> >> >> 9588
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> 9ED3
> >> >> >> 9588
> >> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>>> --
> >> >> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> >> > >>> --
> >> >> >> > >>> Noah Slater
> >> >> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >> > >>
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > >
> >> >> >> > > --
> >> >> >> > > Noah Slater
> >> >> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Andy Wenk
> >> >> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> >> RockIt!
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Andy Wenk
> >> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> RockIt!
> >> >>
> >> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >> >>
> >> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >>
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andy Wenk
> > Hamburg - Germany
> > RockIt!
> >
> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >
> >  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
> 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com>.

Would advocate for the sync idea to lead, and let the couch be a subtle
thing in the mark (like the arrow in the FedEx logo).

For example, there's a couch hiding in here, but the lead is sync:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7nqptqjrupj54no/2014-11-04%2009.54.55.jpg?dl=0

How much the couch hides would be fun to explore.

- Brad





From:	Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
To:	"dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>, Joan Touzet
            <wo...@apache.org>
Date:	11/04/2014 09:49 AM
Subject:	Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo



I really like this idea of two couches meeting, as if the "sync" is
something that's going on between two humans sitting on couches that
face each other. I think that's a great concept to explore. Thanks!

On 2 November 2014 22:03, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> I'm in line with Andy on the blue, probably not good messaging.
>
> Green is PouchDB's colour so best to let them use that, too.
>
> Red, dark red, orange are fine by me.
>
> I also agree that the last row is the best, I don't like the "ouchDB"
> that people might read if they don't know that the semicircular thing is
> a C.
>
> Short story: Many years ago I worked for Soma Networks. Their first logo
> was a perfect circle with two sorta offset symbols on top of it.  They
> used to position the logo to the left of the Soma Networks text.
>
>   http://www.huntingtonventures.com/images/logos/soma.gif
>
> TSA started stopping our employees at the US border who were wearing
> shirts/jackets with the logo: "Wait, you work for OSAMA NETWORKS?" >_<
>
> After that, the logo was moved directly above the Soma Networks text
> so all confusion was removed...at great expense to reprint everything...
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2014 3:51:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> Nick,
>
> thanks 1000 times for taking the action and create these ideas. This is
> what we need to find a route to a "maybe" new logo. Everything I write
> below is very direct and I ask you very much to take it as my personal
view
> and as constructive criticism. Again - I highly appreciate your work!
>
> I have to admit, that I don't like the first and second ideas. I simply
> read OuchDB (Alex mentioned it before). Imho it's a no go.
>
> The third line is a better idea but is not better that what we have. It
is
> definitely very modern. Some words to the colours (last row):
>
> * sorry I don't like green ;-)
> * orange is not strong enough as a colour
> * blue is cool but is Cloudant's main colour an also used heavily by
> Couchbase (http://www.couchbase.com/).
> * red ... is what I like
> * dark red and red is ... hm ... dunno - I don't like it too much
>
> The only colours I like is blue and red. But blue can have some problems
> like:
>
> * it's Cloudant's colour
> * Cloudant does now belong to IBM
> * IBM is blue
> * ah - CouchDB is also blue now - maybe they are now a IBM OpenSource
> Project?
> * ... ähm ... nope!
>
> I think that IF we create a new logo, we should keep a "link" to the old
> one in some way. I am afraid I don't see this here ...
>
> Thanks a lot and Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 1 November 2014 10:09, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OuchDB! You made it (:
>> Circular designs are really nice: they have the project name, two
>> curved couches directed to each other suggests party communication /
>> data replication and multiple colours allows to fit it surrounding
>> environment better.  Though we're seems going to drop Relax moto...
>> --
>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM,  <ju...@villageonline.info> wrote:
>> > Hi Nick,
>> >
>> > These look great.
>> >
>> > I like the circular designs - how would these look with the current
>> colours (ie Reds, white and black) ?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Justin
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Nick Pavlica [mailto:linicks@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: 31 October 2014 23:49
>> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org; andywenk@apache.org
>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >
>> > All,
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hey Nick,
>> >>
>> >> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could
>> >> you share it via link?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >   Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is
a
>> link to the attachment in Dropbox:
>> >
>> >
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0
>> >
>> >   -- Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Andy
>> >>
>> >> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > All,
>> >> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this
>> >> > discussion forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get
away
>> >> > from the couch with the human figure on it, and go with a top view
>> >> > of a circular, or conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I
>> >> > tried to stay true to
>> >> the
>> >> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of
>> >> > course this is a work in progress, and I look forward your
feedback.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > -- Nick Pavlica
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as
>> >> >> it's
>> >> not
>> >> >> a developer-related issue.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
>> >> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol,
>> >> >> please
>> >> post
>> >> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
>> >> announcement
>> >> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Joan
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
>> >> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Jan,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts
>> >> >> as
>> >> well
>> >> >>
>> >> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I
>> >> >> was
>> >> not
>> >> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue
>> >> >> but
>> >> am
>> >> >> still -1 in changing the name
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheers
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Andy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for
>> >> >> > non-threaded
>> >> >> MUAs
>> >> >> > :/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Andy:
>> >> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give
>> >> >> > >> my
>> >> >> whatever
>> >> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
>> >> >> > > with a
>> >> >> > rename
>> >> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Noah:
>> >> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Andy:
>> >> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly
>> >> >> > >> see
>> >> the
>> >> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the
>> >> >> > > ML
>> >> who
>> >> >> > think
>> >> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
>> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> name
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the
name.
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> Best
>> >> >> > >> Jan
>> >> >> > >> --
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>
wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater
<ns...@apache.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and
>> >> >> > >>>>> shows no
>> >> >> signs
>> >> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is
constantly
>> >> >> coming up
>> >> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>> Best
>> >> >> > >>>> Jan
>> >> >> > >>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater
<ns...@apache.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase,
basically.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I
>> >> >> > >>>>>> clearly
>> >> see
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people
on
>> >> >> > >>>>>> the
>> >> ML
>> >> >> > who think
>> >> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to
>> >> >> > >>>>>> keep
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > name and
>> >> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk
<an...@apache.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> give
>> >> my
>> >> >> > whatever
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> to get
>> >> >> > with a
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> rename
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative
aspects ...
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
>> >> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just
stake
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> out
>> >> an
>> >> >> > arbitrary
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. But
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> > is worth
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to do
>> >> >> it,
>> >> >> > if it
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> is to
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
>> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while
now.
>> >> (cf.
>> >> >> > Max
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
>> >> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already
>> "cooked"
>> >> >> into
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> hard
>> >> copy
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> references)
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> long
>> >> do
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> want
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> users
>> >> from
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo
however.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> And
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > last
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red
or
>> >> >> blue....
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble"
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <br...@us.ibm.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
>> >> ---10/30/2014
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
>> >> >> > <nslater@apache
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30,
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 at
>> >> >> > 12:52 AM,
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>> >> But
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org"
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
>> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >> >> name
>> >> >> > too.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> I
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the
>> time.
>> >> >> It's
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand,
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >> >> > changing it
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> in
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> done
>> >> we
>> >> >> > will
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> all
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >> that
>> >> >> > strength
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get
>> >> >> tons
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
>> >> already
>> >> >> > isn't
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> branding
>> >> >> > baggage and
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D
6BE3
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> 9ED3
>> >> >> 9588
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
>> >> >> > >>>>>> 9ED3
>> >> >> 9588
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> --
>> >> >> > >>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > --
>> >> >> > > Noah Slater
>> >> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Andy Wenk
>> >> >> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> >> RockIt!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Andy Wenk
>> >> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> RockIt!
>> >>
>> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >>
>> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc



--
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

I really like this idea of two couches meeting, as if the "sync" is
something that's going on between two humans sitting on couches that
face each other. I think that's a great concept to explore. Thanks!

On 2 November 2014 22:03, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> I'm in line with Andy on the blue, probably not good messaging.
>
> Green is PouchDB's colour so best to let them use that, too.
>
> Red, dark red, orange are fine by me.
>
> I also agree that the last row is the best, I don't like the "ouchDB"
> that people might read if they don't know that the semicircular thing is
> a C.
>
> Short story: Many years ago I worked for Soma Networks. Their first logo
> was a perfect circle with two sorta offset symbols on top of it.  They
> used to position the logo to the left of the Soma Networks text.
>
>   http://www.huntingtonventures.com/images/logos/soma.gif
>
> TSA started stopping our employees at the US border who were wearing
> shirts/jackets with the logo: "Wait, you work for OSAMA NETWORKS?" >_<
>
> After that, the logo was moved directly above the Soma Networks text
> so all confusion was removed...at great expense to reprint everything...
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2014 3:51:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> Nick,
>
> thanks 1000 times for taking the action and create these ideas. This is
> what we need to find a route to a "maybe" new logo. Everything I write
> below is very direct and I ask you very much to take it as my personal view
> and as constructive criticism. Again - I highly appreciate your work!
>
> I have to admit, that I don't like the first and second ideas. I simply
> read OuchDB (Alex mentioned it before). Imho it's a no go.
>
> The third line is a better idea but is not better that what we have. It is
> definitely very modern. Some words to the colours (last row):
>
> * sorry I don't like green ;-)
> * orange is not strong enough as a colour
> * blue is cool but is Cloudant's main colour an also used heavily by
> Couchbase (http://www.couchbase.com/).
> * red ... is what I like
> * dark red and red is ... hm ... dunno - I don't like it too much
>
> The only colours I like is blue and red. But blue can have some problems
> like:
>
> * it's Cloudant's colour
> * Cloudant does now belong to IBM
> * IBM is blue
> * ah - CouchDB is also blue now - maybe they are now a IBM OpenSource
> Project?
> * ... ähm ... nope!
>
> I think that IF we create a new logo, we should keep a "link" to the old
> one in some way. I am afraid I don't see this here ...
>
> Thanks a lot and Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 1 November 2014 10:09, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> OuchDB! You made it (:
>> Circular designs are really nice: they have the project name, two
>> curved couches directed to each other suggests party communication /
>> data replication and multiple colours allows to fit it surrounding
>> environment better.  Though we're seems going to drop Relax moto...
>> --
>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM,  <ju...@villageonline.info> wrote:
>> > Hi Nick,
>> >
>> > These look great.
>> >
>> > I like the circular designs - how would these look with the current
>> colours (ie Reds, white and black) ?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Justin
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Nick Pavlica [mailto:linicks@gmail.com]
>> > Sent: 31 October 2014 23:49
>> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org; andywenk@apache.org
>> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >
>> > All,
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hey Nick,
>> >>
>> >> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could
>> >> you share it via link?
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >   Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is a
>> link to the attachment in Dropbox:
>> >
>> >
>> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0
>> >
>> >   -- Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Andy
>> >>
>> >> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > All,
>> >> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this
>> >> > discussion forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away
>> >> > from the couch with the human figure on it, and go with a top view
>> >> > of a circular, or conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I
>> >> > tried to stay true to
>> >> the
>> >> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of
>> >> > course this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > -- Nick Pavlica
>> >> >
>> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as
>> >> >> it's
>> >> not
>> >> >> a developer-related issue.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
>> >> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol,
>> >> >> please
>> >> post
>> >> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
>> >> announcement
>> >> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -Joan
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
>> >> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
>> >> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Jan,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts
>> >> >> as
>> >> well
>> >> >>
>> >> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I
>> >> >> was
>> >> not
>> >> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue
>> >> >> but
>> >> am
>> >> >> still -1 in changing the name
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cheers
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Andy
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for
>> >> >> > non-threaded
>> >> >> MUAs
>> >> >> > :/
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Andy:
>> >> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give
>> >> >> > >> my
>> >> >> whatever
>> >> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
>> >> >> > > with a
>> >> >> > rename
>> >> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Noah:
>> >> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > Andy:
>> >> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly
>> >> >> > >> see
>> >> the
>> >> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the
>> >> >> > > ML
>> >> who
>> >> >> > think
>> >> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
>> >> >> > > the
>> >> >> name
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >> Best
>> >> >> > >> Jan
>> >> >> > >> --
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and
>> >> >> > >>>>> shows no
>> >> >> signs
>> >> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
>> >> >> coming up
>> >> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>> Best
>> >> >> > >>>> Jan
>> >> >> > >>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I
>> >> >> > >>>>>> clearly
>> >> see
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on
>> >> >> > >>>>>> the
>> >> ML
>> >> >> > who think
>> >> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to
>> >> >> > >>>>>> keep
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > name and
>> >> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> give
>> >> my
>> >> >> > whatever
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> to get
>> >> >> > with a
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> rename
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
>> >> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> out
>> >> an
>> >> >> > arbitrary
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. But
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> > is worth
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to do
>> >> >> it,
>> >> >> > if it
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> is to
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
>> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now.
>> >> (cf.
>> >> >> > Max
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
>> >> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already
>> "cooked"
>> >> >> into
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> hard
>> >> copy
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> references)
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> long
>> >> do
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> want
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> users
>> >> from
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> And
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > last
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
>> >> >> blue....
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble"
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <br...@us.ibm.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
>> >> ---10/30/2014
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
>> >> >> > <nslater@apache
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30,
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 at
>> >> >> > 12:52 AM,
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>> >> But
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org"
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
>> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >> >> name
>> >> >> > too.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> I
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the
>> time.
>> >> >> It's
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand,
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >> >> > changing it
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> in
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> done
>> >> we
>> >> >> > will
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> all
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> >> that
>> >> >> > strength
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get
>> >> >> tons
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
>> >> already
>> >> >> > isn't
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> branding
>> >> >> > baggage and
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> 9ED3
>> >> >> 9588
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
>> >> >> > >>>>>> 9ED3
>> >> >> 9588
>> >> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>>
>> >> >> > >>>>> --
>> >> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>>
>> >> >> > >>> --
>> >> >> > >>> Noah Slater
>> >> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> > >>
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > >
>> >> >> > > --
>> >> >> > > Noah Slater
>> >> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Andy Wenk
>> >> >> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> >> RockIt!
>> >> >>
>> >> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >> >>
>> >> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Andy Wenk
>> >> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> RockIt!
>> >>
>> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >>
>> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

I'm in line with Andy on the blue, probably not good messaging.

Green is PouchDB's colour so best to let them use that, too.

Red, dark red, orange are fine by me.

I also agree that the last row is the best, I don't like the "ouchDB"
that people might read if they don't know that the semicircular thing is
a C.

Short story: Many years ago I worked for Soma Networks. Their first logo
was a perfect circle with two sorta offset symbols on top of it.  They
used to position the logo to the left of the Soma Networks text.

  http://www.huntingtonventures.com/images/logos/soma.gif

TSA started stopping our employees at the US border who were wearing
shirts/jackets with the logo: "Wait, you work for OSAMA NETWORKS?" >_<

After that, the logo was moved directly above the Soma Networks text
so all confusion was removed...at great expense to reprint everything...

-Joan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Saturday, November 1, 2014 3:51:15 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Nick,

thanks 1000 times for taking the action and create these ideas. This is
what we need to find a route to a "maybe" new logo. Everything I write
below is very direct and I ask you very much to take it as my personal view
and as constructive criticism. Again - I highly appreciate your work!

I have to admit, that I don't like the first and second ideas. I simply
read OuchDB (Alex mentioned it before). Imho it's a no go.

The third line is a better idea but is not better that what we have. It is
definitely very modern. Some words to the colours (last row):

* sorry I don't like green ;-)
* orange is not strong enough as a colour
* blue is cool but is Cloudant's main colour an also used heavily by
Couchbase (http://www.couchbase.com/).
* red ... is what I like
* dark red and red is ... hm ... dunno - I don't like it too much

The only colours I like is blue and red. But blue can have some problems
like:

* it's Cloudant's colour
* Cloudant does now belong to IBM
* IBM is blue
* ah - CouchDB is also blue now - maybe they are now a IBM OpenSource
Project?
* ... ähm ... nope!

I think that IF we create a new logo, we should keep a "link" to the old
one in some way. I am afraid I don't see this here ...

Thanks a lot and Cheers

Andy


On 1 November 2014 10:09, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OuchDB! You made it (:
> Circular designs are really nice: they have the project name, two
> curved couches directed to each other suggests party communication /
> data replication and multiple colours allows to fit it surrounding
> environment better.  Though we're seems going to drop Relax moto...
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM,  <ju...@villageonline.info> wrote:
> > Hi Nick,
> >
> > These look great.
> >
> > I like the circular designs - how would these look with the current
> colours (ie Reds, white and black) ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nick Pavlica [mailto:linicks@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 31 October 2014 23:49
> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org; andywenk@apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >> Hey Nick,
> >>
> >> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could
> >> you share it via link?
> >>
> >
> >
> >   Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is a
> link to the attachment in Dropbox:
> >
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0
> >
> >   -- Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > All,
> >> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this
> >> > discussion forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away
> >> > from the couch with the human figure on it, and go with a top view
> >> > of a circular, or conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I
> >> > tried to stay true to
> >> the
> >> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of
> >> > course this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > -- Nick Pavlica
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as
> >> >> it's
> >> not
> >> >> a developer-related issue.
> >> >>
> >> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
> >> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol,
> >> >> please
> >> post
> >> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
> >> announcement
> >> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Joan
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> >> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >>
> >> >> Jan,
> >> >>
> >> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts
> >> >> as
> >> well
> >> >>
> >> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I
> >> >> was
> >> not
> >> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue
> >> >> but
> >> am
> >> >> still -1 in changing the name
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >>
> >> >> Andy
> >> >>
> >> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for
> >> >> > non-threaded
> >> >> MUAs
> >> >> > :/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Andy:
> >> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give
> >> >> > >> my
> >> >> whatever
> >> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
> >> >> > > with a
> >> >> > rename
> >> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Noah:
> >> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Andy:
> >> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly
> >> >> > >> see
> >> the
> >> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the
> >> >> > > ML
> >> who
> >> >> > think
> >> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> name
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Best
> >> >> > >> Jan
> >> >> > >> --
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and
> >> >> > >>>>> shows no
> >> >> signs
> >> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
> >> >> coming up
> >> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> Best
> >> >> > >>>> Jan
> >> >> > >>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I
> >> >> > >>>>>> clearly
> >> see
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on
> >> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> ML
> >> >> > who think
> >> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to
> >> >> > >>>>>> keep
> >> >> the
> >> >> > name and
> >> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> give
> >> my
> >> >> > whatever
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> to get
> >> >> > with a
> >> >> > >>>>>>> rename
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
> >> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> out
> >> an
> >> >> > arbitrary
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. But
> >> >> it
> >> >> > is worth
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to do
> >> >> it,
> >> >> > if it
> >> >> > >>>>>>> is to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now.
> >> (cf.
> >> >> > Max
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> >> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already
> "cooked"
> >> >> into
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> hard
> >> copy
> >> >> > >>>>>>> references)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> long
> >> do
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > >>>>>>> want
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> users
> >> from
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> And
> >> >> the
> >> >> > last
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
> >> >> blue....
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble"
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <br...@us.ibm.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
> >> ---10/30/2014
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> >> >> > <nslater@apache
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 at
> >> >> > 12:52 AM,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> :)
> >> But
> >> >> the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org"
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> >> name
> >> >> > too.
> >> >> > >>>>>>> I
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the
> time.
> >> >> It's
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >> >> > changing it
> >> >> > >>>>>>> in
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> done
> >> we
> >> >> > will
> >> >> > >>>>>>> all
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >> that
> >> >> > strength
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >> >> tons
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
> >> already
> >> >> > isn't
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> branding
> >> >> > baggage and
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> 9ED3
> >> >> 9588
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
> >> >> > >>>>>> 9ED3
> >> >> 9588
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> --
> >> >> > >>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Noah Slater
> >> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Andy Wenk
> >> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> RockIt!
> >> >>
> >> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >> >>
> >> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andy Wenk
> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> RockIt!
> >>
> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>
> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>
> >
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

Nick,

thanks 1000 times for taking the action and create these ideas. This is
what we need to find a route to a "maybe" new logo. Everything I write
below is very direct and I ask you very much to take it as my personal view
and as constructive criticism. Again - I highly appreciate your work!

I have to admit, that I don't like the first and second ideas. I simply
read OuchDB (Alex mentioned it before). Imho it's a no go.

The third line is a better idea but is not better that what we have. It is
definitely very modern. Some words to the colours (last row):

* sorry I don't like green ;-)
* orange is not strong enough as a colour
* blue is cool but is Cloudant's main colour an also used heavily by
Couchbase (http://www.couchbase.com/).
* red ... is what I like
* dark red and red is ... hm ... dunno - I don't like it too much

The only colours I like is blue and red. But blue can have some problems
like:

* it's Cloudant's colour
* Cloudant does now belong to IBM
* IBM is blue
* ah - CouchDB is also blue now - maybe they are now a IBM OpenSource
Project?
* ... ähm ... nope!

I think that IF we create a new logo, we should keep a "link" to the old
one in some way. I am afraid I don't see this here ...

Thanks a lot and Cheers

Andy


On 1 November 2014 10:09, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> OuchDB! You made it (:
> Circular designs are really nice: they have the project name, two
> curved couches directed to each other suggests party communication /
> data replication and multiple colours allows to fit it surrounding
> environment better.  Though we're seems going to drop Relax moto...
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM,  <ju...@villageonline.info> wrote:
> > Hi Nick,
> >
> > These look great.
> >
> > I like the circular designs - how would these look with the current
> colours (ie Reds, white and black) ?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Nick Pavlica [mailto:linicks@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 31 October 2014 23:49
> > To: dev@couchdb.apache.org; andywenk@apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >
> > All,
> >
> >
> >> Hey Nick,
> >>
> >> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could
> >> you share it via link?
> >>
> >
> >
> >   Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is a
> link to the attachment in Dropbox:
> >
> >
> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0
> >
> >   -- Nick
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > All,
> >> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this
> >> > discussion forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away
> >> > from the couch with the human figure on it, and go with a top view
> >> > of a circular, or conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I
> >> > tried to stay true to
> >> the
> >> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of
> >> > course this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > -- Nick Pavlica
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as
> >> >> it's
> >> not
> >> >> a developer-related issue.
> >> >>
> >> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
> >> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol,
> >> >> please
> >> post
> >> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
> >> announcement
> >> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
> >> >>
> >> >> -Joan
> >> >>
> >> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> >> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> >> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
> >> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >>
> >> >> Jan,
> >> >>
> >> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts
> >> >> as
> >> well
> >> >>
> >> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I
> >> >> was
> >> not
> >> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue
> >> >> but
> >> am
> >> >> still -1 in changing the name
> >> >>
> >> >> Cheers
> >> >>
> >> >> Andy
> >> >>
> >> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for
> >> >> > non-threaded
> >> >> MUAs
> >> >> > :/
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Andy:
> >> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give
> >> >> > >> my
> >> >> whatever
> >> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
> >> >> > > with a
> >> >> > rename
> >> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Noah:
> >> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Andy:
> >> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly
> >> >> > >> see
> >> the
> >> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the
> >> >> > > ML
> >> who
> >> >> > think
> >> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> name
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> Best
> >> >> > >> Jan
> >> >> > >> --
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and
> >> >> > >>>>> shows no
> >> >> signs
> >> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
> >> >> coming up
> >> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>> Best
> >> >> > >>>> Jan
> >> >> > >>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I
> >> >> > >>>>>> clearly
> >> see
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on
> >> >> > >>>>>> the
> >> ML
> >> >> > who think
> >> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to
> >> >> > >>>>>> keep
> >> >> the
> >> >> > name and
> >> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> give
> >> my
> >> >> > whatever
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> to get
> >> >> > with a
> >> >> > >>>>>>> rename
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
> >> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> out
> >> an
> >> >> > arbitrary
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. But
> >> >> it
> >> >> > is worth
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to do
> >> >> it,
> >> >> > if it
> >> >> > >>>>>>> is to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now.
> >> (cf.
> >> >> > Max
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> >> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already
> "cooked"
> >> >> into
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> hard
> >> copy
> >> >> > >>>>>>> references)
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> long
> >> do
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > >>>>>>> want
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> users
> >> from
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> And
> >> >> the
> >> >> > last
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
> >> >> blue....
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble"
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <br...@us.ibm.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
> >> ---10/30/2014
> >> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> >> >> > <nslater@apache
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 at
> >> >> > 12:52 AM,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> :)
> >> But
> >> >> the
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org"
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> >> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> >> name
> >> >> > too.
> >> >> > >>>>>>> I
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the
> time.
> >> >> It's
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand,
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >> >> > changing it
> >> >> > >>>>>>> in
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> done
> >> we
> >> >> > will
> >> >> > >>>>>>> all
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> >> that
> >> >> > strength
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >> >> tons
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
> >> already
> >> >> > isn't
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> branding
> >> >> > baggage and
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> 9ED3
> >> >> 9588
> >> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
> >> >> > >>>>>> 9ED3
> >> >> 9588
> >> >> > >>>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>>
> >> >> > >>>>> --
> >> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>>
> >> >> > >>> --
> >> >> > >>> Noah Slater
> >> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Noah Slater
> >> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> Andy Wenk
> >> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> >> RockIt!
> >> >>
> >> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >> >>
> >> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andy Wenk
> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> RockIt!
> >>
> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>
> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>
> >
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

OuchDB! You made it (:
Circular designs are really nice: they have the project name, two
curved couches directed to each other suggests party communication /
data replication and multiple colours allows to fit it surrounding
environment better.  Though we're seems going to drop Relax moto...
--
,,,^..^,,,


On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 11:04 AM,  <ju...@villageonline.info> wrote:
> Hi Nick,
>
> These look great.
>
> I like the circular designs - how would these look with the current colours (ie Reds, white and black) ?
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Pavlica [mailto:linicks@gmail.com]
> Sent: 31 October 2014 23:49
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org; andywenk@apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> All,
>
>
>> Hey Nick,
>>
>> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could
>> you share it via link?
>>
>
>
>   Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is a link to the attachment in Dropbox:
>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0
>
>   -- Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > All,
>> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this
>> > discussion forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away
>> > from the couch with the human figure on it, and go with a top view
>> > of a circular, or conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I
>> > tried to stay true to
>> the
>> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of
>> > course this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > -- Nick Pavlica
>> >
>> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as
>> >> it's
>> not
>> >> a developer-related issue.
>> >>
>> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
>> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol,
>> >> please
>> post
>> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
>> announcement
>> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
>> >>
>> >> -Joan
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
>> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >>
>> >> Jan,
>> >>
>> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts
>> >> as
>> well
>> >>
>> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I
>> >> was
>> not
>> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue
>> >> but
>> am
>> >> still -1 in changing the name
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Andy
>> >>
>> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for
>> >> > non-threaded
>> >> MUAs
>> >> > :/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Andy:
>> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give
>> >> > >> my
>> >> whatever
>> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
>> >> > > with a
>> >> > rename
>> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Noah:
>> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Andy:
>> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly
>> >> > >> see
>> the
>> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the
>> >> > > ML
>> who
>> >> > think
>> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
>> >> > > the
>> >> name
>> >> > and
>> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >> > >
>> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Best
>> >> > >> Jan
>> >> > >> --
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and
>> >> > >>>>> shows no
>> >> signs
>> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
>> >> coming up
>> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>> Best
>> >> > >>>> Jan
>> >> > >>>> --
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I
>> >> > >>>>>> clearly
>> see
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on
>> >> > >>>>>> the
>> ML
>> >> > who think
>> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to
>> >> > >>>>>> keep
>> >> the
>> >> > name and
>> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I
>> >> > >>>>>>>> give
>> my
>> >> > whatever
>> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect
>> >> > >>>>>>>> to get
>> >> > with a
>> >> > >>>>>>> rename
>> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
>> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
>> >> >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> out
>> an
>> >> > arbitrary
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. But
>> >> it
>> >> > is worth
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> to do
>> >> it,
>> >> > if it
>> >> > >>>>>>> is to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
>> >> > nslater@apache.org>
>> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now.
>> (cf.
>> >> > Max
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
>> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked"
>> >> into
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> hard
>> copy
>> >> > >>>>>>> references)
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> long
>> do
>> >> > you
>> >> > >>>>>>> want
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> users
>> from
>> >> > the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> And
>> >> the
>> >> > last
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
>> >> blue....
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble"
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <br...@us.ibm.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
>> ---10/30/2014
>> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
>> >> > <nslater@apache
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 at
>> >> > 12:52 AM,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> :)
>> But
>> >> the
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org"
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
>> >> > nslater@apache.org>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>> >> name
>> >> > too.
>> >> > >>>>>>> I
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time.
>> >> It's
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand,
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>> >> > changing it
>> >> > >>>>>>> in
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> done
>> we
>> >> > will
>> >> > >>>>>>> all
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
>> that
>> >> > strength
>> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get
>> >> tons
>> >> > of
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
>> already
>> >> > isn't
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> branding
>> >> > baggage and
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
>> >> > >>>>>>>> 9ED3
>> >> 9588
>> >> > >>>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> > >>>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3
>> >> > >>>>>> 9ED3
>> >> 9588
>> >> > >>>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>>
>> >> > >>>>> --
>> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
>> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> > >>>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>>
>> >> > >>> --
>> >> > >>> Noah Slater
>> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > > Noah Slater
>> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Andy Wenk
>> >> Hamburg - Germany
>> >> RockIt!
>> >>
>> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >>
>> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>>
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>
>>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>
>

RE: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by ju...@villageonline.info.

Hi Nick,

These look great.

I like the circular designs - how would these look with the current colours (ie Reds, white and black) ? 

Thanks,
Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Pavlica [mailto:linicks@gmail.com] 
Sent: 31 October 2014 23:49
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org; andywenk@apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

All,


> Hey Nick,
>
> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could 
> you share it via link?
>


  Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is a link to the attachment in Dropbox:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0

  -- Nick





>
> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > All,
> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this 
> > discussion forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away 
> > from the couch with the human figure on it, and go with a top view 
> > of a circular, or conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I 
> > tried to stay true to
> the
> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of 
> > course this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -- Nick Pavlica
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as 
> >> it's
> not
> >> a developer-related issue.
> >>
> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo 
> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol, 
> >> please
> post
> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
> announcement
> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
> >>
> >> -Joan
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >>
> >> Jan,
> >>
> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts 
> >> as
> well
> >>
> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I 
> >> was
> not
> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue 
> >> but
> am
> >> still -1 in changing the name
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for 
> >> > non-threaded
> >> MUAs
> >> > :/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
> >> > >
> >> > > Andy:
> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give 
> >> > >> my
> >> whatever
> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get 
> >> > > with a
> >> > rename
> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> > >
> >> > > Noah:
> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> > >
> >> > > Andy:
> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly 
> >> > >> see
> the
> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the 
> >> > > ML
> who
> >> > think
> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep 
> >> > > the
> >> name
> >> > and
> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> > >
> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Best
> >> > >> Jan
> >> > >> --
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and 
> >> > >>>>> shows no
> >> signs
> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
> >> coming up
> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Best
> >> > >>>> Jan
> >> > >>>> --
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I 
> >> > >>>>>> clearly
> see
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on 
> >> > >>>>>> the
> ML
> >> > who think
> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to 
> >> > >>>>>> keep
> >> the
> >> > name and
> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I 
> >> > >>>>>>>> give
> my
> >> > whatever
> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect 
> >> > >>>>>>>> to get
> >> > with a
> >> > >>>>>>> rename
> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake 
> >> > >>>>>>>>> out
> an
> >> > arbitrary
> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of 
> >> > >>>>>>>>> problems. But
> >> it
> >> > is worth
> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time 
> >> > >>>>>>>>> to do
> >> it,
> >> > if it
> >> > >>>>>>> is to
> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now.
> (cf.
> >> > Max
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked"
> >> into
> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> hard
> copy
> >> > >>>>>>> references)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> long
> do
> >> > you
> >> > >>>>>>> want
> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> users
> from
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> And
> >> the
> >> > last
> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
> >> blue....
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> <br...@us.ibm.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
> ---10/30/2014
> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> >> > <nslater@apache
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> 2014 at
> >> > 12:52 AM,
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> :)
> But
> >> the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >> name
> >> > too.
> >> > >>>>>>> I
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time.
> >> It's
> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >> > changing it
> >> > >>>>>>> in
> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> done
> we
> >> > will
> >> > >>>>>>> all
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> of
> that
> >> > strength
> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >> tons
> >> > of
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
> already
> >> > isn't
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of 
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> branding
> >> > baggage and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 
> >> > >>>>>>>> 9ED3
> >> 9588
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 
> >> > >>>>>> 9ED3
> >> 9588
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> --
> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> --
> >> > >>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Noah Slater
> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andy Wenk
> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> RockIt!
> >>
> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>
> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com>.

All,


> Hey Nick,
>
> attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could you
> share it via link?
>


  Sorry, I didn't realize that the ML restricted attachments.  Here is a
link to the attachment in Dropbox:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/4e06ijhfizbd188/couchdb_concept_art.pdf?dl=0

  -- Nick





>
> Looking forward to see your ideas :)
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > All,
> >   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this discussion
> > forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away from the couch
> > with the human figure on it, and go with a top view of a circular, or
> > conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I tried to stay true to
> the
> > current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of course
> > this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > -- Nick Pavlica
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as it's
> not
> >> a developer-related issue.
> >>
> >> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
> >> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol, please
> post
> >> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official
> announcement
> >> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
> >>
> >> -Joan
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> >> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> >> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >>
> >> Jan,
> >>
> >> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts as
> well
> >>
> >> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I was
> not
> >> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue but
> am
> >> still -1 in changing the name
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded
> >> MUAs
> >> > :/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > I was replying to this thread:
> >> > >
> >> > > Andy:
> >> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
> >> whatever
> >> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
> >> > rename
> >> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> > >
> >> > > Noah:
> >> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> > >
> >> > > Andy:
> >> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see
> the
> >> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML
> who
> >> > think
> >> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the
> >> name
> >> > and
> >> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> > >
> >> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Best
> >> > >> Jan
> >> > >> --
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> No, because of the name.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no
> >> signs
> >> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
> >> coming up
> >> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>> Best
> >> > >>>> Jan
> >> > >>>> --
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly
> see
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the
> ML
> >> > who think
> >> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
> >> the
> >> > name and
> >> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
> >> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give
> my
> >> > whatever
> >> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
> >> > with a
> >> > >>>>>>> rename
> >> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <
> jason.h.smith@gmail.com
> >> >
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out
> an
> >> > arbitrary
> >> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But
> >> it
> >> > is worth
> >> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do
> >> it,
> >> > if it
> >> > >>>>>>> is to
> >> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now.
> (cf.
> >> > Max
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> >> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> >> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked"
> >> into
> >> > >>>>>>>>> everything
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard
> copy
> >> > >>>>>>> references)
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long
> do
> >> > you
> >> > >>>>>>> want
> >> > >>>>>>>>> to
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> be
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users
> from
> >> > the
> >> > >>>>>>>>> current
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And
> >> the
> >> > last
> >> > >>>>>>>>> time I
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
> >> blue....
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith
> ---10/30/2014
> >> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> >> > <nslater@apache
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at
> >> > 12:52 AM,
> >> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :)
> But
> >> the
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> >> > nslater@apache.org>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the
> >> name
> >> > too.
> >> > >>>>>>> I
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time.
> >> It's
> >> > >>>>>>>>> important
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and
> >> > changing it
> >> > >>>>>>> in
> >> > >>>>>>>>> a
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done
> we
> >> > will
> >> > >>>>>>> all
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of
> that
> >> > strength
> >> > >>>>>>>>> can
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> we
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get
> >> tons
> >> > of
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that
> already
> >> > isn't
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding
> >> > baggage and
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3
> >> 9588
> >> > >>>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> --
> >> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >> > >>>>>> RockIt!
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3
> >> 9588
> >> > >>>>>>
> >> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>>
> >> > >>>>> --
> >> > >>>>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> --
> >> > >>> Noah Slater
> >> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> > >>
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > --
> >> > > Noah Slater
> >> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Andy Wenk
> >> Hamburg - Germany
> >> RockIt!
> >>
> >> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>
> >>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

Hey Nick,

attachments are not allowed on this ML and are being deleted. Could you
share it via link?

Looking forward to see your ideas :)

Cheers

Andy

On 1 November 2014 00:07, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All,
>   I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this discussion
> forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away from the couch
> with the human figure on it, and go with a top view of a circular, or
> conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I tried to stay true to the
> current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of course
> this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> -- Nick Pavlica
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as it's not
>> a developer-related issue.
>>
>> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
>> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol, please post
>> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official announcement
>> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
>>
>> -Joan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>
>> Jan,
>>
>> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts as well
>>
>> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I was not
>> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue but am
>> still -1 in changing the name
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded
>> MUAs
>> > :/
>> >
>> >
>> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I was replying to this thread:
>> > >
>> > > Andy:
>> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
>> whatever
>> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>> > rename
>> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> > >
>> > > Noah:
>> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> > >
>> > > Andy:
>> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who
>> > think
>> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the
>> name
>> > and
>> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
>> > >
>> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
>> > >>
>> > >> Best
>> > >> Jan
>> > >> --
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> No, because of the name.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no
>> signs
>> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly
>> coming up
>> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>> Best
>> > >>>> Jan
>> > >>>> --
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see
>> > the
>> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML
>> > who think
>> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep
>> the
>> > name and
>> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
>> > whatever
>> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
>> > with a
>> > >>>>>>> rename
>> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <jason.h.smith@gmail.com
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an
>> > arbitrary
>> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But
>> it
>> > is worth
>> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do
>> it,
>> > if it
>> > >>>>>>> is to
>> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
>> > nslater@apache.org>
>> > >>>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf.
>> > Max
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
>> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
>> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked"
>> into
>> > >>>>>>>>> everything
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>> > >>>>>>> references)
>> > >>>>>>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do
>> > you
>> > >>>>>>> want
>> > >>>>>>>>> to
>> > >>>>>>>>>> be
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from
>> > the
>> > >>>>>>>>> current
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And
>> the
>> > last
>> > >>>>>>>>> time I
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
>> blue....
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
>> > <nslater@apache
>> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at
>> > 12:52 AM,
>> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But
>> the
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
>> > nslater@apache.org>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the
>> name
>> > too.
>> > >>>>>>> I
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time.
>> It's
>> > >>>>>>>>> important
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and
>> > changing it
>> > >>>>>>> in
>> > >>>>>>>>> a
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we
>> > will
>> > >>>>>>> all
>> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that
>> > strength
>> > >>>>>>>>> can
>> > >>>>>>>>>> we
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get
>> tons
>> > of
>> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already
>> > isn't
>> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding
>> > baggage and
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>> --
>> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> --
>> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3
>> 9588
>> > >>>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>> --
>> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
>> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> > >>>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> --
>> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
>> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>> > >>>>>> RockIt!
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3
>> 9588
>> > >>>>>>
>> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>>
>> > >>>>> --
>> > >>>>> Noah Slater
>> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> > >>>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --
>> > >>> Noah Slater
>> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Noah Slater
>> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>>
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>
>>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>
>
>


-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com>.

All,
  I'v crated some conceptual artwork in hopes of moving this discussion
forward (see attached pdf).  The main idea is to get away from the couch
with the human figure on it, and go with a top view of a circular, or
conversation couch as we call them in the U.S.  I tried to stay true to the
current logo by retaining the motto, and Apache designation.  Of course
this is a work in progress, and I look forward your feedback.


Regards,

-- Nick Pavlica

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as it's not
> a developer-related issue.
>
> Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
> suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol, please post
> them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official announcement
> about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.
>
> -Joan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> Jan,
>
> thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts as well
>
> @Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I was not
> really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue but am
> still -1 in changing the name
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded
> MUAs
> > :/
> >
> >
> > > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I was replying to this thread:
> > >
> > > Andy:
> > >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
> whatever
> > > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
> > rename
> > > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> > >
> > > Noah:
> > >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> > >
> > > Andy:
> > >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
> > > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who
> > think
> > > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name
> > and
> > > clarify the situation as often as possible
> > >
> > > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> > >>
> > >> Best
> > >> Jan
> > >> --
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> No, because of the name.
> > >>>
> > >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no
> signs
> > >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming
> up
> > >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Best
> > >>>> Jan
> > >>>> --
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see
> > the
> > >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML
> > who think
> > >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the
> > name and
> > >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
> > whatever
> > >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
> > with a
> > >>>>>>> rename
> > >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an
> > arbitrary
> > >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it
> > is worth
> > >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it,
> > if it
> > >>>>>>> is to
> > >>>>>>>>> be done.
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> > nslater@apache.org>
> > >>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf.
> > Max
> > >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> > kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked"
> into
> > >>>>>>>>> everything
> > >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
> > >>>>>>> references)
> > >>>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do
> > you
> > >>>>>>> want
> > >>>>>>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>>>> be
> > >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from
> > the
> > >>>>>>>>> current
> > >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the
> > last
> > >>>>>>>>> time I
> > >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or
> blue....
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
> > >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> > <nslater@apache
> > >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at
> > 12:52 AM,
> > >>>>>>>>> Noah
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But
> the
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> > nslater@apache.org>
> > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name
> > too.
> > >>>>>>> I
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
> > >>>>>>>>> important
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and
> > changing it
> > >>>>>>> in
> > >>>>>>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we
> > will
> > >>>>>>> all
> > >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that
> > strength
> > >>>>>>>>> can
> > >>>>>>>>>> we
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons
> > of
> > >>>>>>>>>> attention
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already
> > isn't
> > >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding
> > baggage and
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> > >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> > >>>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> > >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> > >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3
> 9588
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> > >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> > >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> > >>>>>> RockIt!
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Noah Slater
> > >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Noah Slater
> > >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Noah Slater
> > > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

I have started a new marketing@ thread on changing the motto, as it's not
a developer-related issue.

Trying to get this thread back on track, if people have new logo
suggestions - real ones, well designed, not jokes or vitriol, please post
them here for us to get a look at. We don't need an official announcement
about a logo search/contest to start accepting submissions.

-Joan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Wenk" <an...@apache.org>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2014 1:09:24 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Jan,

thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts as well

@Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I was not
really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue but am
still -1 in changing the name

Cheers

Andy

On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:

> Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded MUAs
> :/
>
>
> > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > I was replying to this thread:
> >
> > Andy:
> >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
> > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
> rename
> > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >
> > Noah:
> >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >
> > Andy:
> >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
> > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who
> think
> > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name
> and
> > clarify the situation as often as possible
> >
> > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> >>
> >> Best
> >> Jan
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> No, because of the name.
> >>>
> >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
> >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
> >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>> Jan
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see
> the
> >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML
> who think
> >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the
> name and
> >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
> whatever
> >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
> with a
> >>>>>>> rename
> >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an
> arbitrary
> >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it
> is worth
> >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it,
> if it
> >>>>>>> is to
> >>>>>>>>> be done.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> nslater@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf.
> Max
> >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
> >>>>>>>>> everything
> >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
> >>>>>>> references)
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do
> you
> >>>>>>> want
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from
> the
> >>>>>>>>> current
> >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the
> last
> >>>>>>>>> time I
> >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
> >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> <nslater@apache
> >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at
> 12:52 AM,
> >>>>>>>>> Noah
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> nslater@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name
> too.
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
> >>>>>>>>> important
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and
> changing it
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we
> will
> >>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that
> strength
> >>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons
> of
> >>>>>>>>>> attention
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already
> isn't
> >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding
> baggage and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >>>>>> RockIt!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Noah Slater
> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Noah Slater
> >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Noah Slater
> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>
>


-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

Jan,

thanks for your list :) . That reflects and summarises my thoughts as well

@Noah ... I understand confusion with Couchbase in social media. I was not
really aware of that. So I support the point working on that issue but am
still -1 in changing the name

Cheers

Andy

On 30 October 2014 17:49, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:

> Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded MUAs
> :/
>
>
> > On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > I was replying to this thread:
> >
> > Andy:
> >> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
> > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
> rename
> > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >
> > Noah:
> >> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >
> > Andy:
> >> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
> > situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who
> think
> > it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name
> and
> > clarify the situation as often as possible
> >
> > On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
> >>
> >> Best
> >> Jan
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> No, because of the name.
> >>>
> >>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
> >>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
> >>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>> Jan
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see
> the
> >>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML
> who think
> >>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the
> name and
> >>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my
> whatever
> >>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get
> with a
> >>>>>>> rename
> >>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an
> arbitrary
> >>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it
> is worth
> >>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it,
> if it
> >>>>>>> is to
> >>>>>>>>> be done.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <
> nslater@apache.org>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf.
> Max
> >>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <
> kevin.r.coombes@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
> >>>>>>>>> everything
> >>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
> >>>>>>> references)
> >>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do
> you
> >>>>>>> want
> >>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from
> the
> >>>>>>>>> current
> >>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the
> last
> >>>>>>>>> time I
> >>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
> >>>>>>> 04:40:26
> >>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater
> <nslater@apache
> >>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at
> 12:52 AM,
> >>>>>>>>> Noah
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <
> nslater@apache.org>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name
> too.
> >>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
> >>>>>>>>> important
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and
> changing it
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we
> will
> >>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>>>> wonder
> >>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that
> strength
> >>>>>>>>> can
> >>>>>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons
> of
> >>>>>>>>>> attention
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already
> isn't
> >>>>>>>>>> enough, we
> >>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding
> baggage and
> >>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >>>>>>>> RockIt!
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Noah Slater
> >>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> Andy Wenk
> >>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
> >>>>>> RockIt!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Noah Slater
> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Noah Slater
> >>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Noah Slater
> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>
>


-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.

Ah, sorry, I thought this was in reply to me. Hooray for non-threaded MUAs :/


> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:47 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> I was replying to this thread:
> 
> Andy:
>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a rename
> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> 
> Noah:
>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
> 
> Andy:
>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
> clarify the situation as often as possible
> 
> On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
>> 
>> Best
>> Jan
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No, because of the name.
>>> 
>>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
>>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
>>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>>>> 
>>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>>>> 
>>>> Best
>>>> Jan
>>>> --
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>>>>>> rename
>>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>  Eight Ball
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>>>> be done.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>>>>>> references)
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>>>>>> time I
>>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>>>>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>>>>>> RockIt!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>>>> RockIt!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

I was replying to this thread:

Andy:
> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a rename
.... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...

Noah:
> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.

Andy:
> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
clarify the situation as often as possible

On 30 October 2014 17:45, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.
>
> Best
> Jan
> --
>
>
>
>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> No, because of the name.
>>
>> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
>>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
>>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>>>
>>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Jan
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>>>>> rename
>>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Eight Ball
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>>>>> is to
>>>>>>>> be done.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>>>>> references)
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>>>>> want
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>>>>> time I
>>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>>>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>>>>> RockIt!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>>> RockIt!
>>>>>
>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>>
>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Noah Slater
>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.

My comment on Couchbase was related to the logo, not the name.

Best
Jan
--



> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:39 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> No, because of the name.
> 
> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>> 
>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>> 
>> Best
>> Jan
>> --
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>>>> rename
>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   Eight Ball
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>>>> is to
>>>>>>> be done.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>>>> references)
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>>>> time I
>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>>>> RockIt!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>> RockIt!
>>>> 
>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>> 
>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

So let them change it, what's the problem? (:
With changing name, logo, branding you're going to kill CouchDB as a
project and create some another project with similar code base. That
could be anything, but not CouchDB.
As well noted, changing a name causes massive issues with module
names, domains, existed articles, questions, hashtags, searches for
information and certainly will cause more confusing about who is who.
--
,,,^..^,,,


On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> No, because of the name.
>
> On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
>>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
>>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>>
>> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>>
>> Best
>> Jan
>> --
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>>>> rename
>>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Eight Ball
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>>>> is to
>>>>>>> be done.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>>>> references)
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>>>> want
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>>>> time I
>>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Kevin
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>>>> all
>>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>>>> RockIt!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>> RockIt!
>>>>
>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>
>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

No, because of the name.

On 30 October 2014 17:34, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
>> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
>> on social media, in person, and so on.
>
> Because of the logo? I hardly think so.
>
> Best
> Jan
> --
>
>
>>
>> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>>> rename
>>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Eight Ball
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>>> is to
>>>>>> be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>>> everything
>>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>>> references)
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>>> want
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>>> current
>>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>>> time I
>>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Kevin
>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>>> in
>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>>> all
>>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>>> RockIt!
>>>>>
>>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>>
>>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Noah Slater
>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andy Wenk
>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>> RockIt!
>>>
>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>
>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.

> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:33 , Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
> of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
> on social media, in person, and so on.

Because of the logo? I hardly think so.

Best
Jan
--


> 
> On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>> 
>> 
>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>> rename
>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>> 
>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>> 
>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Eight Ball
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>> 
>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>> is to
>>>>> be done.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>> everything
>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>> references)
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>> want
>>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>> current
>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>> time I
>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  Kevin
>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>> I
>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>> all
>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>> can
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>> RockIt!
>>>> 
>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>> 
>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>> 
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> 
>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

The confusion with Couchbase is large, widespread, and shows no signs
of resolving itself any time soon. This issue is constantly coming up
on social media, in person, and so on.

On 30 October 2014 17:04, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>
>
> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
> clarify the situation as often as possible
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>> > sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>> > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>> rename
>> > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>> >
>> > On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>> >> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>> >>
>> >> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>> >>
>> >>     Eight Ball
>> >>
>> >> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>> >>
>> >> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>> >> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>> is to
>> >> be done.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>> >> > Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>> >> >
>> >> > On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > > Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>> >> everything
>> >> > > associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>> references)
>> >> > to
>> >> > > the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>> want
>> >> to
>> >> > be
>> >> > > forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>> >> current
>> >> > > names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>> >> time I
>> >> > > looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>> >> > >
>> >> > >   Kevin
>> >> > > On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >> *SyncDB*
>> >> > >> The database that syncs.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Logo would embody that idea.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>> 04:40:26
>> >> > >> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>> >> > ]Jason
>> >> > >> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>> >> Noah
>> >> > >> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> >> > >> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> >> > >> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> >> > >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> >> > >> ------------------------------
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>> I
>> >> > >> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>> >> important
>> >> > >> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>> in
>> >> a
>> >> > >> > big will be expensive.
>> >> > >> >
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Change the name! Change the name!
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>> all
>> >> > wonder
>> >> > >> what we were so worried about.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>> >> can
>> >> > we
>> >> > >> keep, and how much do we lose.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>> >> > attention
>> >> > >> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>> >> > enough, we
>> >> > >> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>> >> > >> trademark problems.
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >> Change the name!
>> >> > >>
>> >> > >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Noah Slater
>> >> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Andy Wenk
>> > Hamburg - Germany
>> > RockIt!
>> >
>> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >
>> >  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>.

+1 to Jan's votes

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> +user@
>
> Thanks Joan for bringing this up!
>
> Thanks Lena for your perspective and courage to voice it here.
>
> Thanks all for your input.
>
> +1 on reworking the logo.
>  - an animal on the couch could do the trick, or just no person, but see the next point, really. I’m not worried about logo confusion with Couchbase.
> +1 on letting professionals do it.
> -1 on a colour change. Maybe toning it towards the Fauxtony orange is an option, but see the previous point.
> -1000 on renaming the project.
> +1 on moving on from “Relax” as a theme. It’s a Katzism and out of date as far as the people who run the project now. Something around sync would be nice, any other completely unrelated whimsy would also be appreciated.
>
> Best
> Jan
> --
>
>
>
>
>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:04 , Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>>
>>
>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>> rename
>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>>
>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>>
>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>>
>>>>>    Eight Ball
>>>>>
>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>>
>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>> is to
>>>>> be done.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>> everything
>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>> references)
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>> want
>>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>> current
>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>> time I
>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Kevin
>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>> I
>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>> all
>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>> can
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>> RockIt!
>>>>
>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>
>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>>
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>
>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>.

+1 to Jan's votes

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org> wrote:
> +user@
>
> Thanks Joan for bringing this up!
>
> Thanks Lena for your perspective and courage to voice it here.
>
> Thanks all for your input.
>
> +1 on reworking the logo.
>  - an animal on the couch could do the trick, or just no person, but see the next point, really. I’m not worried about logo confusion with Couchbase.
> +1 on letting professionals do it.
> -1 on a colour change. Maybe toning it towards the Fauxtony orange is an option, but see the previous point.
> -1000 on renaming the project.
> +1 on moving on from “Relax” as a theme. It’s a Katzism and out of date as far as the people who run the project now. Something around sync would be nice, any other completely unrelated whimsy would also be appreciated.
>
> Best
> Jan
> --
>
>
>
>
>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:04 , Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>>>
>>
>> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
>> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
>> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
>> clarify the situation as often as possible
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>>> rename
>>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>>>
>>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>>>
>>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>>>
>>>>>    Eight Ball
>>>>>
>>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>>>
>>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>>> is to
>>>>> be done.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>>> everything
>>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>>> references)
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>>> want
>>>>> to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>>> current
>>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>>> time I
>>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Kevin
>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>>> Noah
>>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>>> I
>>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>>> important
>>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>>> in
>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>>> all
>>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>>> can
>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>> RockIt!
>>>>
>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>>
>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>>
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>
>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.

+user@

Thanks Joan for bringing this up!

Thanks Lena for your perspective and courage to voice it here.

Thanks all for your input.

+1 on reworking the logo.
 - an animal on the couch could do the trick, or just no person, but see the next point, really. I’m not worried about logo confusion with Couchbase.
+1 on letting professionals do it.
-1 on a colour change. Maybe toning it towards the Fauxtony orange is an option, but see the previous point.
-1000 on renaming the project.
+1 on moving on from “Relax” as a theme. It’s a Katzism and out of date as far as the people who run the project now. Something around sync would be nice, any other completely unrelated whimsy would also be appreciated.

Best
Jan
-- 




> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:04 , Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> 
> 
> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
> clarify the situation as often as possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>> rename
>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>> 
>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>> 
>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>> 
>>>>    Eight Ball
>>>> 
>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>> 
>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>> is to
>>>> be done.
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>> everything
>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>> references)
>>>>> to
>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>> want
>>>> to
>>>>> be
>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>> current
>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>> time I
>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Kevin
>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>> Noah
>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>> I
>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>> important
>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>> in
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>> all
>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>> can
>>>>> we
>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>> attention
>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Andy Wenk
>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>> RockIt!
>>> 
>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>> 
>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
> 
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> 
> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jan Lehnardt <ja...@apache.org>.

+user@

Thanks Joan for bringing this up!

Thanks Lena for your perspective and courage to voice it here.

Thanks all for your input.

+1 on reworking the logo.
 - an animal on the couch could do the trick, or just no person, but see the next point, really. I’m not worried about logo confusion with Couchbase.
+1 on letting professionals do it.
-1 on a colour change. Maybe toning it towards the Fauxtony orange is an option, but see the previous point.
-1000 on renaming the project.
+1 on moving on from “Relax” as a theme. It’s a Katzism and out of date as far as the people who run the project now. Something around sync would be nice, any other completely unrelated whimsy would also be appreciated.

Best
Jan
-- 




> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:04 , Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>> 
> 
> I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
> situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
> it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
> clarify the situation as often as possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
>>> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
>> rename
>>> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>>> 
>>> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>>>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>>> 
>>>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>>> 
>>>>    Eight Ball
>>>> 
>>>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>>> 
>>>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>>>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
>> is to
>>>> be done.
>>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>>>>> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>>>> everything
>>>>>> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
>> references)
>>>>> to
>>>>>> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
>> want
>>>> to
>>>>> be
>>>>>> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>>>> current
>>>>>> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>>>> time I
>>>>>> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Kevin
>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> *SyncDB*
>>>>>>> The database that syncs.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
>> 04:40:26
>>>>>>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>>>>> ]Jason
>>>>>>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>>>> Noah
>>>>>>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>>>>>>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
>> I
>>>>>>>> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>>>> important
>>>>>>>> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
>> in
>>>> a
>>>>>>>> big will be expensive.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
>> all
>>>>> wonder
>>>>>>> what we were so worried about.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>>>> can
>>>>> we
>>>>>>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>>>>> attention
>>>>>>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>>>>> enough, we
>>>>>>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>>>>>>> trademark problems.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Change the name!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Andy Wenk
>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>> RockIt!
>>> 
>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>> 
>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
> 
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> 
> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

On 30 October 2014 16:47, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.
>

I am not sure how big this special issue is because I clearly see the
situation from CouchDB. If we have a look to the people on the ML who think
it's Couchbase, that's very minimal ... I would prefer to keep the name and
clarify the situation as often as possible




>
> On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> > sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
> > vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a
> rename
> > .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
> >
> > On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
> >> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
> >>
> >> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
> >>
> >>     Eight Ball
> >>
> >> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
> >>
> >> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
> >> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it
> is to
> >> be done.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
> >> > Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >> >
> >> > On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
> >> everything
> >> > > associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy
> references)
> >> > to
> >> > > the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you
> want
> >> to
> >> > be
> >> > > forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
> >> current
> >> > > names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >> > >
> >> > > I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
> >> time I
> >> > > looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
> >> > >
> >> > >   Kevin
> >> > > On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> *SyncDB*
> >> > >> The database that syncs.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Logo would embody that idea.
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014
> 04:40:26
> >> > >> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
> >> > ]Jason
> >> > >> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
> >> Noah
> >> > >> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
> >> > >>
> >> > >> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> > >> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >> > >> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> > >> ------------------------------
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > >> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too.
> I
> >> > >> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
> >> important
> >> > >> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it
> in
> >> a
> >> > >> > big will be expensive.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Change the name! Change the name!
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will
> all
> >> > wonder
> >> > >> what we were so worried about.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
> >> can
> >> > we
> >> > >> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
> >> > attention
> >> > >> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
> >> > enough, we
> >> > >> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
> >> > >> trademark problems.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Change the name!
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Noah Slater
> >> > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andy Wenk
> > Hamburg - Germany
> > RockIt!
> >
> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >
> >  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

Clear up massive brand confusion with Couchbase, basically.

On 30 October 2014 16:35, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
> vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a rename
> .... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...
>
> On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
>> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>>
>> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>>
>>     Eight Ball
>>
>> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>>
>> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
>> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it is to
>> be done.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
>> > Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>> >
>> > On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
>> everything
>> > > associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy references)
>> > to
>> > > the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you want
>> to
>> > be
>> > > forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
>> current
>> > > names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>> > >
>> > > I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
>> time I
>> > > looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>> > >
>> > >   Kevin
>> > > On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> *SyncDB*
>> > >> The database that syncs.
>> > >>
>> > >> Logo would embody that idea.
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26
>> > >> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
>> > ]Jason
>> > >> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
>> Noah
>> > >> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>> > >>
>> > >> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> > >> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> > >> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> > >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> > >> ------------------------------
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
>> > >> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
>> important
>> > >> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in
>> a
>> > >> > big will be expensive.
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >> Change the name! Change the name!
>> > >>
>> > >> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all
>> > wonder
>> > >> what we were so worried about.
>> > >>
>> > >> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
>> can
>> > we
>> > >> keep, and how much do we lose.
>> > >>
>> > >> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
>> > attention
>> > >> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
>> > enough, we
>> > >> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>> > >> trademark problems.
>> > >>
>> > >> Change the name!
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Noah Slater
>> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

sure - IF we want to rename then with 2.0. But before I give my whatever
vote, I would like to know which advantages you expect to get with a rename
.... as of now - I can only think of negative aspects ...

On 30 October 2014 16:08, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
> mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.
>
> My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):
>
>     Eight Ball
>
> Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!
>
> More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
> re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it is to
> be done.
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
> > Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
> >
> > On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into
> everything
> > > associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy references)
> > to
> > > the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you want
> to
> > be
> > > forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the
> current
> > > names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> > >
> > > I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last
> time I
> > > looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
> > >
> > >   Kevin
> > > On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> *SyncDB*
> > >> The database that syncs.
> > >>
> > >> Logo would embody that idea.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26
> > >> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
> > ]Jason
> > >> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM,
> Noah
> > >> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
> > >>
> > >> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> > >> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> > >> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> > >> ------------------------------
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> > >> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's
> important
> > >> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in
> a
> > >> > big will be expensive.
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >> Change the name! Change the name!
> > >>
> > >> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all
> > wonder
> > >> what we were so worried about.
> > >>
> > >> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength
> can
> > we
> > >> keep, and how much do we lose.
> > >>
> > >> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
> > attention
> > >> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
> > enough, we
> > >> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
> > >> trademark problems.
> > >>
> > >> Change the name!
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Noah Slater
> > https://twitter.com/nslater
> >
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>.

Love it. Get away from the WhateverDB thing. Just stake out an arbitrary
mark from which we build clear, unambiguous IP.

My proposal (as long as we are brainstorming names):

    Eight Ball

Tagline: Whatever you do. Don't get more eight ball!

More seriously, yes, a name change has lots of problems. But it is worth
re-considering Noah's point that now is the best time to do it, if it is to
be done.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
> Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)
>
> On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into everything
> > associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy references)
> to
> > the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you want to
> be
> > forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the current
> > names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
> >
> > I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last time I
> > looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
> >
> >   Kevin
> > On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> >
> >> *SyncDB*
> >> The database that syncs.
> >>
> >> Logo would embody that idea.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26
> >> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache
> ]Jason
> >> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah
> >> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
> >>
> >> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> >> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> >> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> >> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> >> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> >> > big will be expensive.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Change the name! Change the name!
> >>
> >> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all
> wonder
> >> what we were so worried about.
> >>
> >> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength can
> we
> >> keep, and how much do we lose.
> >>
> >> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of
> attention
> >> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't
> enough, we
> >> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
> >> trademark problems.
> >>
> >> Change the name!
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

I've been wanting to rename it SleepyDB for a while now. (cf. Max
Ogden's SLEEP protocol.)

On 30 October 2014 11:43, Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into everything
> associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy references) to
> the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you want to be
> forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the current
> names to whatever you might pick for new ones?
>
> I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last time I
> looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....
>
>   Kevin
> On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>> *SyncDB*
>> The database that syncs.
>>
>> Logo would embody that idea.
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26
>> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache]Jason
>> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah
>> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>>
>> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
>> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
>> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
>> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
>> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
>> > big will be expensive.
>> >
>>
>> Change the name! Change the name!
>>
>> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all wonder
>> what we were so worried about.
>>
>> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength can we
>> keep, and how much do we lose.
>>
>> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of attention
>> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't enough, we
>> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
>> trademark problems.
>>
>> Change the name!
>>
>>



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Kevin Coombes <ke...@gmail.com>.

Definitely -1 on changing the name. It's already "cooked" into everything
associated with the project. There are links (and hard copy references) to
the name and the web site(s) all over the place. How long do you want to be
forced to maintain DNS or HTTP entries to forward users from the current
names to whatever you might pick for new ones?

I would be perfectly happy to see a new logo however. And the last time I
looked, there were a lot more colors than just red or blue....

  Kevin
On Oct 30, 2014 6:11 AM, "Brad Noble" <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> *SyncDB*
> The database that syncs.
>
> Logo would embody that idea.
>
>
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Jason Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26
> AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache]Jason
> Smith ---10/30/2014 04:40:26 AM---On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah
> Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote: > Blue is nice. :) But the
>
> From: Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
> To: "dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
> Date: 10/30/2014 04:40 AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> > mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> > to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> > big will be expensive.
> >
>
> Change the name! Change the name!
>
> Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all wonder
> what we were so worried about.
>
> The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength can we
> keep, and how much do we lose.
>
> I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of attention
> with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't enough, we
> get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
> trademark problems.
>
> Change the name!
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com>.

SyncDB
The database that syncs.

Logo would embody that idea.

From:	Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>
To:	"dev@couchdb.apache.org" <de...@couchdb.apache.org>
Date:	10/30/2014 04:40 AM
Subject:	Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> big will be expensive.
>

Change the name! Change the name!

Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all wonder
what we were so worried about.

The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength can we
keep, and how much do we lose.

I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of attention
with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't enough, we
get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
trademark problems.

Change the name!

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
> mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
> to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
> big will be expensive.
>

Change the name! Change the name!

Like all transitions, it seems scary. But once it's done we will all wonder
what we were so worried about.

The brand is strong, but the question is, how much of that strength can we
keep, and how much do we lose.

I think we will keep nearly all of it, plus we will get tons of attention
with a 2.0 release and name change. And as if that already isn't enough, we
get the opportunity to walk away from a ton of branding baggage and
trademark problems.

Change the name!

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

Hi folks!

(Dropping user@, as this isn't really a topic for that list.)

CouchDB 2.0 is an *obvious* target for a brand refresh. Lets seize it
if we want to make changes.

I think the complaints are valid, though I baulked at first also. But
that's because I'm attached to our brand.

It's also important to note that his pose and his haircut gender him.
(It's clearly a him. For people who might not've been around when we
adopted this logo, he even has a name. He's called "the dude".) Not to
mention that he is white.

So yeah. We have a logo with a white dude sitting in a sexually
suggestive pose. Obviously, nothing was ever meant by it. But this
certainly isn't an image that reflects the sort of culture that we
want to build going forward.

I propose we simply remove the person. The image that Paul linked is
good. I'd be happy with the logo as-is, without the dude. It's a
fairly minor graphical tweak, and if we time it right, represents an
evolution of our brand as well as our product.

I'm tempted to suggest a colour change. But that's only to
differentiate our logo from Couchbase. It's rather unfortunate that
they chose a logo so similar to ours (recently bringing it even closer
in terms of colour). Slightly ironic, given Jen's comment. ;)

Blue is nice. :) But then that tempts me to change the name too. I
mean, if we're ever going to do this, now is the time. It's important
to note though that we have a very STRONG brand, and changing it in a
big will be expensive.

Just removing the person from the logo sees like a simple, inexpensive
change though.

On 28 October 2014 12:52, Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What exactly
> is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript have
> become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they can
> store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on the
> server.
>
> I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
> over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
> interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan would
> be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she has a
> better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.
>
> For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about the
> art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is doing
> what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and that is
> what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
> dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.
>
> I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine with
> any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep the
> logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
> project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
> before, there are some good arguments.)
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
>> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think of
>> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
>> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for the
>> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
>> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person]Bryan
>> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting just to
>> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
>>
>> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
>> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>> ------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
>> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>>
>> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
>> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
>> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
>> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
>> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>> >
>> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
>> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
>> > its image in the open source community.
>> >
>> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
>> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>> >
>> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
>> >
>> >
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>> >
>> > Or in SVG:
>> >
>> >
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>> >
>> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
>> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
>> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
>> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>> >
>> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
>> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
>> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
>> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>> >
>> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>> >
>> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>> >
>> > -Joan
>> >
>> >
>>
>>



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>.

I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What exactly
is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript have
become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they can
store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on the
server.

I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan would
be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she has a
better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.

For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about the
art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is doing
what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and that is
what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.

I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine with
any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep the
logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
before, there are some good arguments.)

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think of
> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for the
> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
>
>
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person]Bryan
> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting just to
> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
>
> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>
> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >
> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > its image in the open source community.
> >
> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >
> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >
> > Or in SVG:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >
> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >
> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >
> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >
> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jason Smith <ja...@gmail.com>.

I have been thinking about Brad's point for a long time now. What exactly
is relaxing? Since CouchDB came out, web APIs, NoSQL and JavaScript have
become [more] mainstream. Today's users are not impressed that they can
store an unstructured JSON blob, or that they can use JavaScript on the
server.

I am torn about Joan's observations. On the one hand, I'd hate to
over-steer, to make a big change because a tiny minority of people
interpret a bit of art a particular way. But on the other hand, Joan would
be the first person most people come to with such an issue. Maybe she has a
better perspective; she detects a problem that I can't see.

For now though, my provisional position is to agree with Benoit about the
art, and Brad about the tagline. The man thinks he is alone. He is doing
what people do when they relax. We are spying on that behavior, and that is
what makes it real and convincing. The man is not a sales rep with a
dubious promise of relaxation. He really is relaxing.

I don't plan to post again, simply because of bike shedding. I'm fine with
any decision. But I suggest: as long as the tagline is "relax," keep the
logo. Discuss changing the tagline (and also the logo), and even put a
project rename on the table while we're here. (This has been discussed
before, there are some good arguments.)

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com> wrote:

> Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
> Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think of
> when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
> relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for the
> long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?
>
>
>
> [image: Inactive hide details for Bryan Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07
> PM---I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person]Bryan
> Green ---10/27/2014 09:19:07 PM---I think it would be interesting just to
> get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of styli
>
> From: Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Date: 10/27/2014 09:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
> and have some sort of stylized couch.
>
> Bryan Green aka "lispyone"
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >
> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > its image in the open source community.
> >
> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >
> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >
> > Or in SVG:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >
> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >
> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >
> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >
> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> >
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com>.

Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think of
when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for the
long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?





From:	Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
To:	dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
Cc:	user@couchdb.apache.org
Date:	10/27/2014 09:19 PM
Subject:	Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo



I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
and have some sort of stylized couch.

Bryan Green aka "lispyone"

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Brad Noble <br...@us.ibm.com>.

Suggestive as it may be, the logo clearly embodies the idea of "relax."
Specifics of the image aside, is "relax" what we want people to think of
when they think of CouchDB? To me, the idea that CouchDB is about
relaxation is outmoded. A good thought for the beginnings, but not for the
long-haul. If not relaxation, then what?





From:	Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
To:	dev@couchdb.apache.org, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
Cc:	user@couchdb.apache.org
Date:	10/27/2014 09:19 PM
Subject:	Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo



I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
and have some sort of stylized couch.

Bryan Green aka "lispyone"

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>.

Not for not, but BigCouch's "logo" has been sans human figure for
nearly four years. This is from Adam Kocloski's slide deck at Erlang
Factory SF, March 2011:

http://f.cl.ly/items/3U0A1s0r361Z1Y3v1p1b/big-couch-logo.png

That's just the earliest I can find it in a slide deck. I did find a
few where the figure is a tiny person which I think was meant to show
that the couch was bigger. I always thought that one was a bit silly
myself.

While I'm not super excited to see our logo change, I can see how it
could be misinterpreted which is probably reason enough to think about
changing it.

HTH,
Paul

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Jens Alfke <je...@couchbase.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2014, at 6:32 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting, but those CouchBase jerks already did it:
>
> Watch whom you're calling a jerk, please.
>
>> We might own the concept of Couch and the original red couch logo,
>
> Uh, you can't own a "concept". You can own a patent, copyright or trademark. The Apache Foundation probably owns trademarks on the name CouchDB™ and the couch-with-person-on-it logo, but I'm pretty sure it explicitly disclaims patent rights. (Companies are pretty skittish of patent-encumbered open-source technologies these days.)
>
>> but I am sure they'll get angry and make our lives difficult if we make ours
>> look similar to theirs.
>
> Really, I don't think Couchbase is overly concerned about what logo designs Apache projects are using. :) Unless maybe you picked _exactly the same_ logo as our current or past (2011-13) one, which would be both lame and unimaginative. There are a million possible logo designs based on couches, with a lot of room for creativity!
>
> (As for the controversy, I like the current CouchDB logo and it seems a stretch to consider it offensive. I'm sure one can fill in that white silhouette with lewd details, but that says more about the person looking at it than the design itself. "Honi soit qui mal y pense".)
>
> —Jens (who is not a lawyer and does not speak for Couchbase)

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Paul Davis <pa...@gmail.com>.

Not for not, but BigCouch's "logo" has been sans human figure for
nearly four years. This is from Adam Kocloski's slide deck at Erlang
Factory SF, March 2011:

http://f.cl.ly/items/3U0A1s0r361Z1Y3v1p1b/big-couch-logo.png

That's just the earliest I can find it in a slide deck. I did find a
few where the figure is a tiny person which I think was meant to show
that the couch was bigger. I always thought that one was a bit silly
myself.

While I'm not super excited to see our logo change, I can see how it
could be misinterpreted which is probably reason enough to think about
changing it.

HTH,
Paul

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 10:26 PM, Jens Alfke <je...@couchbase.com> wrote:
>
>> On Oct 27, 2014, at 6:32 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> Interesting, but those CouchBase jerks already did it:
>
> Watch whom you're calling a jerk, please.
>
>> We might own the concept of Couch and the original red couch logo,
>
> Uh, you can't own a "concept". You can own a patent, copyright or trademark. The Apache Foundation probably owns trademarks on the name CouchDB™ and the couch-with-person-on-it logo, but I'm pretty sure it explicitly disclaims patent rights. (Companies are pretty skittish of patent-encumbered open-source technologies these days.)
>
>> but I am sure they'll get angry and make our lives difficult if we make ours
>> look similar to theirs.
>
> Really, I don't think Couchbase is overly concerned about what logo designs Apache projects are using. :) Unless maybe you picked _exactly the same_ logo as our current or past (2011-13) one, which would be both lame and unimaginative. There are a million possible logo designs based on couches, with a lot of room for creativity!
>
> (As for the controversy, I like the current CouchDB logo and it seems a stretch to consider it offensive. I'm sure one can fill in that white silhouette with lewd details, but that says more about the person looking at it than the design itself. "Honi soit qui mal y pense".)
>
> —Jens (who is not a lawyer and does not speak for Couchbase)

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

Jens Alfke wrote:
> Watch whom you're calling a jerk, please.

Sorry, I was trying to be humorous, not malicious. I know text can be difficult with these things, so please take no offense.

> Uh, you can't own a "concept". You can own a patent, copyright or trademark.

Again, not speaking literally here. I was just trying to say that Apache CouchDB had the red couch-shaped logo first. I don't want to rehash the bad blood that occurred between certain former CouchBase employees, the direction of the CouchBase product and the Apache CouchDB community at this point, it won't do anyone any good and is irrelevant to this discussion.

On that point, perhaps it _is_ time to change the logo. That was a particularly dark chapter in our history. A new visual identity with a clear distinction could help mark a new beginning.

Paul Davis then said:
> While I'm not super excited to see our logo change, I can see how it
> could be misinterpreted which is probably reason enough to think about
> changing it.

This is all I am trying to do - have the discussion about *thinking* about changing it.

Again, I'm not terribly offended by the logo either, but it is my responsibility as a PMC member to bring these issues forward to the community as a whole. There are at least 4 people out there who took the time to track me down at a conference at which I was speaking about Apache Couchdb and complain about the logo. It took me a while to decide what to do, but once I did, I took it straight to user@ and dev@ for discussion.

Jan can describe the history of the original logo, but I think it was simply the result of a contest, nothing more. We certainly could have another contest if people liked, and try and have a democratic voting process on old vs. a select number of new logos. But this discussion was really just to gauge interest and thoughts, not to suggest any particular way forward or start a process.

If any of the people who came up to me in person to lodge a complaint want to speak up on the mailing list, now's your chance.

-Joan

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

Jens Alfke wrote:
> Watch whom you're calling a jerk, please.

Sorry, I was trying to be humorous, not malicious. I know text can be difficult with these things, so please take no offense.

> Uh, you can't own a "concept". You can own a patent, copyright or trademark.

Again, not speaking literally here. I was just trying to say that Apache CouchDB had the red couch-shaped logo first. I don't want to rehash the bad blood that occurred between certain former CouchBase employees, the direction of the CouchBase product and the Apache CouchDB community at this point, it won't do anyone any good and is irrelevant to this discussion.

On that point, perhaps it _is_ time to change the logo. That was a particularly dark chapter in our history. A new visual identity with a clear distinction could help mark a new beginning.

Paul Davis then said:
> While I'm not super excited to see our logo change, I can see how it
> could be misinterpreted which is probably reason enough to think about
> changing it.

This is all I am trying to do - have the discussion about *thinking* about changing it.

Again, I'm not terribly offended by the logo either, but it is my responsibility as a PMC member to bring these issues forward to the community as a whole. There are at least 4 people out there who took the time to track me down at a conference at which I was speaking about Apache Couchdb and complain about the logo. It took me a while to decide what to do, but once I did, I took it straight to user@ and dev@ for discussion.

Jan can describe the history of the original logo, but I think it was simply the result of a contest, nothing more. We certainly could have another contest if people liked, and try and have a democratic voting process on old vs. a select number of new logos. But this discussion was really just to gauge interest and thoughts, not to suggest any particular way forward or start a process.

If any of the people who came up to me in person to lodge a complaint want to speak up on the mailing list, now's your chance.

-Joan

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jens Alfke <je...@couchbase.com>.

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 6:32 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, but those CouchBase jerks already did it:

Watch whom you're calling a jerk, please.

> We might own the concept of Couch and the original red couch logo,

Uh, you can't own a "concept". You can own a patent, copyright or trademark. The Apache Foundation probably owns trademarks on the name CouchDB™ and the couch-with-person-on-it logo, but I'm pretty sure it explicitly disclaims patent rights. (Companies are pretty skittish of patent-encumbered open-source technologies these days.)

> but I am sure they'll get angry and make our lives difficult if we make ours
> look similar to theirs.

Really, I don't think Couchbase is overly concerned about what logo designs Apache projects are using. :) Unless maybe you picked _exactly the same_ logo as our current or past (2011-13) one, which would be both lame and unimaginative. There are a million possible logo designs based on couches, with a lot of room for creativity!

(As for the controversy, I like the current CouchDB logo and it seems a stretch to consider it offensive. I'm sure one can fill in that white silhouette with lewd details, but that says more about the person looking at it than the design itself. "Honi soit qui mal y pense".)

—Jens (who is not a lawyer and does not speak for Couchbase)

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Jens Alfke <je...@couchbase.com>.

> On Oct 27, 2014, at 6:32 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> Interesting, but those CouchBase jerks already did it:

Watch whom you're calling a jerk, please.

> We might own the concept of Couch and the original red couch logo,

Uh, you can't own a "concept". You can own a patent, copyright or trademark. The Apache Foundation probably owns trademarks on the name CouchDB™ and the couch-with-person-on-it logo, but I'm pretty sure it explicitly disclaims patent rights. (Companies are pretty skittish of patent-encumbered open-source technologies these days.)

> but I am sure they'll get angry and make our lives difficult if we make ours
> look similar to theirs.

Really, I don't think Couchbase is overly concerned about what logo designs Apache projects are using. :) Unless maybe you picked _exactly the same_ logo as our current or past (2011-13) one, which would be both lame and unimaginative. There are a million possible logo designs based on couches, with a lot of room for creativity!

(As for the controversy, I like the current CouchDB logo and it seems a stretch to consider it offensive. I'm sure one can fill in that white silhouette with lewd details, but that says more about the person looking at it than the design itself. "Honi soit qui mal y pense".)

—Jens (who is not a lawyer and does not speak for Couchbase)

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

Interesting, but those CouchBase jerks already did it:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/Couchbase%2C_Inc._official_logo.png

We might own the concept of Couch and the original red couch logo, but
I am sure they'll get angry and make our lives difficult if we make ours
look similar to theirs.

-Joan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Green" <db...@gmail.com>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, "Joan Touzet" <wo...@apache.org>
Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 9:17:50 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo


I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of stylized couch. 


Bryan Green aka "lispyone" 


On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet < wohali@apache.org > wrote: 


At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014, 
OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people 
complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks 
like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it, 
"showing you his crotch and inviting you over." 

These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks - 
they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and 
its image in the open source community. 

I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the 
saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it. 

As a reminder here is our current logo: 

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png 

Or in SVG: 

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg 

I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the 
same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose 
to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally, 
but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections. 

Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't 
draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an 
artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in 
reply to this thread that fixes the problem? 

You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at: 

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/ 

-Joan

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

Interesting, but those CouchBase jerks already did it:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/67/Couchbase%2C_Inc._official_logo.png

We might own the concept of Couch and the original red couch logo, but
I am sure they'll get angry and make our lives difficult if we make ours
look similar to theirs.

-Joan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Green" <db...@gmail.com>
To: dev@couchdb.apache.org, "Joan Touzet" <wo...@apache.org>
Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2014 9:17:50 PM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo


I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether and have some sort of stylized couch. 


Bryan Green aka "lispyone" 


On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet < wohali@apache.org > wrote: 


At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014, 
OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people 
complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks 
like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it, 
"showing you his crotch and inviting you over." 

These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks - 
they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and 
its image in the open source community. 

I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the 
saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it. 

As a reminder here is our current logo: 

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png 

Or in SVG: 

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg 

I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the 
same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose 
to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally, 
but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections. 

Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't 
draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an 
artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in 
reply to this thread that fixes the problem? 

You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at: 

https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/ 

-Joan

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
and have some sort of stylized couch.

Bryan Green aka "lispyone"

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com>.

All,
  Thanks for the for the feedback/suggestions.  I have started a new thread
on the marketing list as suggested so that we can reduce some of the noise
on this list until we have landed on something.  I have posted some new
ideas on on the new thread so please take a look when you get a chance.

Thanks!
--Nick

On Wed Nov 05 2014 at 10:46:50 AM Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org> wrote:

> Nick, one of the tag-lines I was thinking about was:
>
> - Liberate your data
> - Free your data
>
> Or "The database that..." before either one of those.
>
> This is the direction I'm feeling our tagline should go in.See the
> tagline discussion on the marketing list for more.
>
> Maybe this helps you with your logo work!
>
> (I think this discussion should actually move to marketing@c.a.o for
> now. We can bring back a final list of candidates to the dev@ list
> once we've been over enough iterations.)
>
>
> On 5 November 2014 00:11, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > All,
> >   I had another brainstorm session after my last post, and wanted to
> share
> > it.
> >
> >   https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx1401gvy1q9gdp/concept_art_5.pdf?dl=0
> >
> >
> > Thanks Again!
> >
> > -- Nick Pavlica
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> >> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> >> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> >> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> >> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >>
> >> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> >> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> >> its image in the open source community.
> >>
> >> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> >> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >>
> >> As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >>
> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/cou
> chdb-logo.png
> >>
> >> Or in SVG:
> >>
> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/cou
> chdb-logo.svg
> >>
> >> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> >> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> >> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> >> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >>
> >> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> >> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> >> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> >> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >>
> >> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >>
> >>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >>
> >> -Joan
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Noah Slater <ns...@apache.org>.

Nick, one of the tag-lines I was thinking about was:

- Liberate your data
- Free your data

Or "The database that..." before either one of those.

This is the direction I'm feeling our tagline should go in.See the
tagline discussion on the marketing list for more.

Maybe this helps you with your logo work!

(I think this discussion should actually move to marketing@c.a.o for
now. We can bring back a final list of candidates to the dev@ list
once we've been over enough iterations.)


On 5 November 2014 00:11, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>   I had another brainstorm session after my last post, and wanted to share
> it.
>
>   https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx1401gvy1q9gdp/concept_art_5.pdf?dl=0
>
>
> Thanks Again!
>
> -- Nick Pavlica
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
>> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
>> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
>> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
>> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>>
>> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
>> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
>> its image in the open source community.
>>
>> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
>> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>>
>> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>>
>> Or in SVG:
>>
>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>>
>> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
>> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
>> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
>> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>>
>> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
>> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
>> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
>> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>>
>> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>>
>>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>>
>> -Joan
>>
>>



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 2:11 AM, Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>   I had another brainstorm session after my last post, and wanted to share
> it.
>
>   https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx1401gvy1q9gdp/concept_art_5.pdf?dl=0

Oh, no...the white square looks ugly. Previous variant was much better.

The third variant reminds me kids playground like this one:
http://detskiy-saytik.ru/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/popryigaem-5.jpg
But that's very childhood-relative association (:

--
,,,^..^,,,

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Nick Pavlica <li...@gmail.com>.

All,
  I had another brainstorm session after my last post, and wanted to share
it.

  https://www.dropbox.com/s/yx1401gvy1q9gdp/concept_art_5.pdf?dl=0


Thanks Again!

-- Nick Pavlica



On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

On 28 October 2014 10:15, Nick North <no...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the couch. But
> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is definitely a man,
> in a very male attitude, and that might be enough to put some women off
> becoming involved in the community.
>
> Nick
>

that's the reason why I wrote "man" and not "person" to underline the fact,
that it is obviously a man ... what could lead to problems (I don't really
see though ...)

Cheers

Andy


>
> On 28 October 2014 08:35, Thomas Lindgren <u....@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the
> > professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design
> > firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically,
> let
> > them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving
> > from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.
> >
> > Best,
> > Thomas
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
> > > someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
> > >
> > > I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can
> > understand
> > > that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude. I personally
> > > don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax" statement fits
> > > perfectly together.
> > >
> > > Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what he
> > > sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term
> relax
> > > btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because mostly men
> > are
> > > hanging around on a couch like this.
> > >
> > > So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude
> > vulgar
> > > or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other intention.
> > Nothing
> > > more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that the logo's meaning
> or
> > > intention should be something else than that.
> > >
> > > As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not
> harm
> > > anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem
> > personally
> > > but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to change the
> > > logo.
> > >
> > > First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over
> his
> > > right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague Luigi
> > > noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and maybe
> the
> > > size of the couch.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
> > > p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
> > > >
> > > > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
> > > >
> > > > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > > > > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > > > > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo
> > looks
> > > > > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put
> it,
> > > > > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > > > >
> > > > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over
> drinks
> > -
> > > > > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB
> and
> > > > > its image in the open source community.
> > > > >
> > > > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > > > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> > > > >
> > > > > Or in SVG:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that
> keeps
> > > the
> > > > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> > pose
> > > > > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> > naturally,
> > > > > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I
> can't
> > > > > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're
> an
> > > > > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo
> in
> > > > > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > > > >
> > > > >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > > > >
> > > > > -Joan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andy Wenk
> > > Hamburg - Germany
> > > RockIt!
> > >
> > > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> > >
> > >  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> > >
> >
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com>.

I agree with Bryan – especially in the times of GamerGate, we should be even more aware of what we're doing than we should be anyway. And what we're talking about here isn't anything that's been made up, but concrete cases, and the fact they were brought up gives us a chance to react, ideally appropriately and according to the ideals this community has and stands for, especially in terms of inclusiveness and aiming for diversity.

On 28 Oct 2014, at 15:08, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is absolutely no
>> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
>> with, will you change it?
> 
> For no reason - no (: If you have a reasons it's good start to discuss
> about their origins and try to change your mind.
> If there would be more people like you this would be a signal to start
> thinking about that something is wrong.
> If there wasn't much offended for the whole CouchDB time history, but
> suddenly they becomes to now and massively - that's could be counted
> as attempt for social terrorism.
> In anyway, if you have a reasons to be offended by our logo better
> call...errr, write to private@couchdb.apache.org and we'll discuss
> about.
> 
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is absolutely no
> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
> with, will you change it?

For no reason - no (: If you have a reasons it's good start to discuss
about their origins and try to change your mind.
If there would be more people like you this would be a signal to start
thinking about that something is wrong.
If there wasn't much offended for the whole CouchDB time history, but
suddenly they becomes to now and massively - that's could be counted
as attempt for social terrorism.
In anyway, if you have a reasons to be offended by our logo better
call...errr, write to private@couchdb.apache.org and we'll discuss
about.

--
,,,^..^,,,

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I agree.  I offer sincere apologies if I have offended anyone.

B

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:03 AM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> All,
>
> I would remind you to try and proceed in this discussion with a
> modicum of decorum and assuming good faith on the part of those
> engaged. Sarcasm, anger, and facetious responses are not helping.
>
> Once again, for the record, I don't have a problem with the
> logo personally, but I have a responsibility to raise this issue
> as a representative of the PMC and because of the requests of
> those who approached me. I have no other mission here. I knew
> when I started the thread it'd turn into a bikeshed; sadly,
> there was no way to avoid that, as burying the requests would
> be tantamount to me making an *individual* decision that trumps
> that of the collective -- hardly becoming behaviour for a PMC
> member.
>
> Let me try and summarize the discussion to date. I didn't count
> up responses to the thread, but it seems clear that nearly all
> respondents so far have no issue personally with the logo.
>
> A minority of individuals suggested that it may be time to change
> the logo, the tagline and even the project name for various reasons.
> If we're considering any of these steps, now would be the time to
> figure that out -- prior to the impending 2.0 beta and release.
>
> I'd like to steer discussion towards these points and away from
> the topic of logo acceptability -- it's become clear to me that
> there is no further useful discussion possible on that topic.
>
> Best regards,
> Joan
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bryan Green" <db...@gmail.com>
> To: "Giovanni Parra" <fi...@gmail.com>
> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:18:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> I am sure someone would find it offensive (maybe artists)?  The point is
> that we can't decide what is offensive to someone else.  We should do our
> best, within reason, to not offend.  Also, the you have to keep in mind
> that a brand logo is not just art.  It has a particular use to get a
> branding message across.  If we feel that the current brand for couchdb is
> best represented by the current logo, then we shouldn't change anything and
> be ok with the people who are put off from couchdb due to the logo (no
> matter how "silly" we think that is).  If we have doubts then we should
> discuss it.
>
> Personally, I am not sure the Relax mantra is a good one anymore either.
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > After re-reading the first message of the thread I'm convinced that,
> > despite the present logo not being offensive in any way, it can sometimes
> > give a wrong impression.
> >
> > My humble suggestion is that we gather suggestions and, if we find none,
> > maintain the logo. Otherwise change it.
> >
> > So here is my (serious) idea for a logo that fits with the "relax" motto:
> >
> http://www.papeldeparede.etc.br/wallpapers/snoopy-e-woodstock_6591_1024x768.jpg
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Et_selskab_af_danske_kunstnere_i_Rom.jpg
> >> is this offensive?
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I would assume we would discuss it as we are now.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is
> >>>> absolutely no
> >>>> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come
> up
> >>>> with, will you change it?
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <
> dbryan.green@gmail.com>
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>> > > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.
> This
> >>>> is a
> >>>> > > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the
> human
> >>>> > figure
> >>>> > > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
> >>>> > Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
> >>>> > with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
> >>>> > discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
> >>>> > Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases
> which
> >>>> > will never happens.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > --
> >>>> > ,,,^..^,,,
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by "Rohrdanz,Mary A" <MA...@mdanderson.org>.

I have no problems with the logo as is.

But no joke: I was using CouchDB for a few months before I realized it was
a man on a couch, and not a piece of abstract art. lolz.

On 10/28/14, 10:39 AM, "Miles Fidelman" <mf...@meetinghouse.net> wrote:

>Which suggests that the new logo should keep the couch, but replace the
>man with a cute animal - in keeping with open source tradition. :-)
>
>Cat, Koala, .. a few appropriate animals come to mind.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Miles Fidelman
>
>Alexander Shorin wrote:
>> The "Time to Relax" is not only tagline, but also the goal to aim for.
>> If you are not relaxed with CouchDB, probably, you just doing
>> something wrong or should file an issue about (:
>> --
>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Eric B <eb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> A minority of individuals suggested that it may be time to change
>>>> the logo, the tagline and even the project name for various reasons.
>>>> If we're considering any of these steps, now would be the time to
>>>> figure that out -- prior to the impending 2.0 beta and release.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to steer discussion towards these points and away from
>>>> the topic of logo acceptability -- it's become clear to me that
>>>> there is no further useful discussion possible on that topic.
>>>>
>>> As a fairly newcomer to CouchDB, I'd like to contribute by giving my
>>> viewpoint and insight into the discussion to date.   To be clear, I am
>>>not
>>> personally offended  by the logo.  But to be entirely fair (and
>>>hopefully
>>> no one will take offense at this), I don't particularly care too much
>>>about
>>> it either.  I don't make technical decisions based on graphics, but
>>>rather
>>> what the product provides.
>>>
>>> To that extent, I chose CouchDB due to its feature set, community, and
>>> platform availability.  I wanted something that I could use in a
>>> distributed manner without too much hassles.  CouchDB offered me a
>>>solution
>>> for this.  The fact that the tag line was "CouchDB and Relax" really
>>>meant
>>> nothing to me either.
>>>
>>> Coming from a RDBMS background, already moving to NoSQL has its
>>>challenges
>>> in design and approach.  Using CouchDB as a persistence engine (and
>>>not an
>>> actual web-server) to a Java application means that it's HTTP API
>>>doesn't
>>> really impact me either (all access is wrapped in a library).
>>>
>>> So from my perspective, the tagline "...Relax..." isn't really even
>>> accurate.  If anything, CouchDB has less "standard" support in Java
>>>(ie:
>>> no Spring libraries, etc) and makes it less "relaxing" than something
>>>like
>>> MongoDB which has a big Spring following.
>>>
>>> If the goal is to rethink the name/logo/tagline, then perhaps a more
>>> appropriate approach would be to target its feature set: (random
>>>examples
>>> purely to illustrate my point): "Easy NoSQL for the web" or
>>>"Distributed
>>> NoSQL made simple" or something more directed.
>>>
>>> But the primary goal, I believe, is to first decide whether anything
>>> _needs_ to be changed.  As others have already mentioned, something
>>>will
>>> always offend someone somewhere, in some different language or culture.
>>> That being said, the question should rather be if the
>>>product/community has
>>> outgrown the tagline, and if so, what a new tagline/name should be.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Eric
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

Koalas are slow ....

On 28 October 2014 16:48, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Miles Fidelman
> <mf...@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
> > Which suggests that the new logo should keep the couch, but replace the
> man
> > with a cute animal - in keeping with open source tradition. :-)
> >
> > Cat, Koala, .. a few appropriate animals come to mind.
>
> Koalas are SO relaxed! (: Great idea!
>
> http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/00/49/5d/00495db6cdf59469ba20aa726ea36de5.jpg
>
> http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/de/e0/f3/dee0f371151747049080c9ec67052cef.jpg
>
> http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/33/33/7b33338a1b0c7da164e7d4cb6f5d6926.jpg
>
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cOtUomW0Ee4/TtH-qOZSFmI/AAAAAAAAD38/lY03mrE1RBI/s1600/koala.jpeg
>
> http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/5d/84/ca/5d84caa056efe4032ee424c2730a0f90.jpg
>
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>



-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Miles Fidelman
<mf...@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
> Which suggests that the new logo should keep the couch, but replace the man
> with a cute animal - in keeping with open source tradition. :-)
>
> Cat, Koala, .. a few appropriate animals come to mind.

Koalas are SO relaxed! (: Great idea!
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/00/49/5d/00495db6cdf59469ba20aa726ea36de5.jpg
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/de/e0/f3/dee0f371151747049080c9ec67052cef.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/33/33/7b33338a1b0c7da164e7d4cb6f5d6926.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cOtUomW0Ee4/TtH-qOZSFmI/AAAAAAAAD38/lY03mrE1RBI/s1600/koala.jpeg
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/5d/84/ca/5d84caa056efe4032ee424c2730a0f90.jpg

--
,,,^..^,,,

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by Miles Fidelman <mf...@meetinghouse.net>.

Which suggests that the new logo should keep the couch, but replace the 
man with a cute animal - in keeping with open source tradition. :-)

Cat, Koala, .. a few appropriate animals come to mind.

Cheers,

Miles Fidelman

Alexander Shorin wrote:
> The "Time to Relax" is not only tagline, but also the goal to aim for.
> If you are not relaxed with CouchDB, probably, you just doing
> something wrong or should file an issue about (:
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Eric B <eb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> A minority of individuals suggested that it may be time to change
>>> the logo, the tagline and even the project name for various reasons.
>>> If we're considering any of these steps, now would be the time to
>>> figure that out -- prior to the impending 2.0 beta and release.
>>>
>>> I'd like to steer discussion towards these points and away from
>>> the topic of logo acceptability -- it's become clear to me that
>>> there is no further useful discussion possible on that topic.
>>>
>> As a fairly newcomer to CouchDB, I'd like to contribute by giving my
>> viewpoint and insight into the discussion to date.   To be clear, I am not
>> personally offended  by the logo.  But to be entirely fair (and hopefully
>> no one will take offense at this), I don't particularly care too much about
>> it either.  I don't make technical decisions based on graphics, but rather
>> what the product provides.
>>
>> To that extent, I chose CouchDB due to its feature set, community, and
>> platform availability.  I wanted something that I could use in a
>> distributed manner without too much hassles.  CouchDB offered me a solution
>> for this.  The fact that the tag line was "CouchDB and Relax" really meant
>> nothing to me either.
>>
>> Coming from a RDBMS background, already moving to NoSQL has its challenges
>> in design and approach.  Using CouchDB as a persistence engine (and not an
>> actual web-server) to a Java application means that it's HTTP API doesn't
>> really impact me either (all access is wrapped in a library).
>>
>> So from my perspective, the tagline "...Relax..." isn't really even
>> accurate.  If anything, CouchDB has less "standard" support in Java  (ie:
>> no Spring libraries, etc) and makes it less "relaxing" than something like
>> MongoDB which has a big Spring following.
>>
>> If the goal is to rethink the name/logo/tagline, then perhaps a more
>> appropriate approach would be to target its feature set: (random examples
>> purely to illustrate my point): "Easy NoSQL for the web" or "Distributed
>> NoSQL made simple" or something more directed.
>>
>> But the primary goal, I believe, is to first decide whether anything
>> _needs_ to be changed.  As others have already mentioned, something will
>> always offend someone somewhere, in some different language or culture.
>> That being said, the question should rather be if the product/community has
>> outgrown the tagline, and if so, what a new tagline/name should be.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Eric

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

The "Time to Relax" is not only tagline, but also the goal to aim for.
If you are not relaxed with CouchDB, probably, you just doing
something wrong or should file an issue about (:
--
,,,^..^,,,


On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Eric B <eb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:
>
>> A minority of individuals suggested that it may be time to change
>> the logo, the tagline and even the project name for various reasons.
>> If we're considering any of these steps, now would be the time to
>> figure that out -- prior to the impending 2.0 beta and release.
>>
>> I'd like to steer discussion towards these points and away from
>> the topic of logo acceptability -- it's become clear to me that
>> there is no further useful discussion possible on that topic.
>>
>
> As a fairly newcomer to CouchDB, I'd like to contribute by giving my
> viewpoint and insight into the discussion to date.   To be clear, I am not
> personally offended  by the logo.  But to be entirely fair (and hopefully
> no one will take offense at this), I don't particularly care too much about
> it either.  I don't make technical decisions based on graphics, but rather
> what the product provides.
>
> To that extent, I chose CouchDB due to its feature set, community, and
> platform availability.  I wanted something that I could use in a
> distributed manner without too much hassles.  CouchDB offered me a solution
> for this.  The fact that the tag line was "CouchDB and Relax" really meant
> nothing to me either.
>
> Coming from a RDBMS background, already moving to NoSQL has its challenges
> in design and approach.  Using CouchDB as a persistence engine (and not an
> actual web-server) to a Java application means that it's HTTP API doesn't
> really impact me either (all access is wrapped in a library).
>
> So from my perspective, the tagline "...Relax..." isn't really even
> accurate.  If anything, CouchDB has less "standard" support in Java  (ie:
> no Spring libraries, etc) and makes it less "relaxing" than something like
> MongoDB which has a big Spring following.
>
> If the goal is to rethink the name/logo/tagline, then perhaps a more
> appropriate approach would be to target its feature set: (random examples
> purely to illustrate my point): "Easy NoSQL for the web" or "Distributed
> NoSQL made simple" or something more directed.
>
> But the primary goal, I believe, is to first decide whether anything
> _needs_ to be changed.  As others have already mentioned, something will
> always offend someone somewhere, in some different language or culture.
> That being said, the question should rather be if the product/community has
> outgrown the tagline, and if so, what a new tagline/name should be.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by Eric B <eb...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> A minority of individuals suggested that it may be time to change
> the logo, the tagline and even the project name for various reasons.
> If we're considering any of these steps, now would be the time to
> figure that out -- prior to the impending 2.0 beta and release.
>
> I'd like to steer discussion towards these points and away from
> the topic of logo acceptability -- it's become clear to me that
> there is no further useful discussion possible on that topic.
>

As a fairly newcomer to CouchDB, I'd like to contribute by giving my
viewpoint and insight into the discussion to date.   To be clear, I am not
personally offended  by the logo.  But to be entirely fair (and hopefully
no one will take offense at this), I don't particularly care too much about
it either.  I don't make technical decisions based on graphics, but rather
what the product provides.

To that extent, I chose CouchDB due to its feature set, community, and
platform availability.  I wanted something that I could use in a
distributed manner without too much hassles.  CouchDB offered me a solution
for this.  The fact that the tag line was "CouchDB and Relax" really meant
nothing to me either.

Coming from a RDBMS background, already moving to NoSQL has its challenges
in design and approach.  Using CouchDB as a persistence engine (and not an
actual web-server) to a Java application means that it's HTTP API doesn't
really impact me either (all access is wrapped in a library).

So from my perspective, the tagline "...Relax..." isn't really even
accurate.  If anything, CouchDB has less "standard" support in Java  (ie:
no Spring libraries, etc) and makes it less "relaxing" than something like
MongoDB which has a big Spring following.

If the goal is to rethink the name/logo/tagline, then perhaps a more
appropriate approach would be to target its feature set: (random examples
purely to illustrate my point): "Easy NoSQL for the web" or "Distributed
NoSQL made simple" or something more directed.

But the primary goal, I believe, is to first decide whether anything
_needs_ to be changed.  As others have already mentioned, something will
always offend someone somewhere, in some different language or culture.
That being said, the question should rather be if the product/community has
outgrown the tagline, and if so, what a new tagline/name should be.

Thanks,

Eric

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Javier Candeira <ja...@candeira.com>.

On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 1:18 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Personally, I am not sure the Relax mantra is a good one anymore either.

If it ever was. Before I ever started studying CouchDB and using it, I
thought it was some kind of XML database. Why? Because of RELAX NG:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RELAX_NG

J

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo / tagline / project name

Posted by Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>.

All,

I would remind you to try and proceed in this discussion with a
modicum of decorum and assuming good faith on the part of those
engaged. Sarcasm, anger, and facetious responses are not helping.

Once again, for the record, I don't have a problem with the
logo personally, but I have a responsibility to raise this issue
as a representative of the PMC and because of the requests of
those who approached me. I have no other mission here. I knew
when I started the thread it'd turn into a bikeshed; sadly,
there was no way to avoid that, as burying the requests would
be tantamount to me making an *individual* decision that trumps
that of the collective -- hardly becoming behaviour for a PMC
member.

Let me try and summarize the discussion to date. I didn't count
up responses to the thread, but it seems clear that nearly all  
respondents so far have no issue personally with the logo.

A minority of individuals suggested that it may be time to change
the logo, the tagline and even the project name for various reasons.
If we're considering any of these steps, now would be the time to
figure that out -- prior to the impending 2.0 beta and release.

I'd like to steer discussion towards these points and away from
the topic of logo acceptability -- it's become clear to me that
there is no further useful discussion possible on that topic.

Best regards,
Joan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bryan Green" <db...@gmail.com>
To: "Giovanni Parra" <fi...@gmail.com>
Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:18:10 AM
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

I am sure someone would find it offensive (maybe artists)?  The point is
that we can't decide what is offensive to someone else.  We should do our
best, within reason, to not offend.  Also, the you have to keep in mind
that a brand logo is not just art.  It has a particular use to get a
branding message across.  If we feel that the current brand for couchdb is
best represented by the current logo, then we shouldn't change anything and
be ok with the people who are put off from couchdb due to the logo (no
matter how "silly" we think that is).  If we have doubts then we should
discuss it.

Personally, I am not sure the Relax mantra is a good one anymore either.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> After re-reading the first message of the thread I'm convinced that,
> despite the present logo not being offensive in any way, it can sometimes
> give a wrong impression.
>
> My humble suggestion is that we gather suggestions and, if we find none,
> maintain the logo. Otherwise change it.
>
> So here is my (serious) idea for a logo that fits with the "relax" motto:
> http://www.papeldeparede.etc.br/wallpapers/snoopy-e-woodstock_6591_1024x768.jpg
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Et_selskab_af_danske_kunstnere_i_Rom.jpg
>> is this offensive?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would assume we would discuss it as we are now.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is
>>>> absolutely no
>>>> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
>>>> with, will you change it?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
>>>> is a
>>>> > > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human
>>>> > figure
>>>> > > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>>>> >
>>>> > There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
>>>> > Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
>>>> > with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
>>>> > discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
>>>> > Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
>>>> > will never happens.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > ,,,^..^,,,
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I am sure someone would find it offensive (maybe artists)?  The point is
that we can't decide what is offensive to someone else.  We should do our
best, within reason, to not offend.  Also, the you have to keep in mind
that a brand logo is not just art.  It has a particular use to get a
branding message across.  If we feel that the current brand for couchdb is
best represented by the current logo, then we shouldn't change anything and
be ok with the people who are put off from couchdb due to the logo (no
matter how "silly" we think that is).  If we have doubts then we should
discuss it.

Personally, I am not sure the Relax mantra is a good one anymore either.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> After re-reading the first message of the thread I'm convinced that,
> despite the present logo not being offensive in any way, it can sometimes
> give a wrong impression.
>
> My humble suggestion is that we gather suggestions and, if we find none,
> maintain the logo. Otherwise change it.
>
> So here is my (serious) idea for a logo that fits with the "relax" motto:
> http://www.papeldeparede.etc.br/wallpapers/snoopy-e-woodstock_6591_1024x768.jpg
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Et_selskab_af_danske_kunstnere_i_Rom.jpg
>> is this offensive?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would assume we would discuss it as we are now.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is
>>>> absolutely no
>>>> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
>>>> with, will you change it?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
>>>> is a
>>>> > > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human
>>>> > figure
>>>> > > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>>>> >
>>>> > There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
>>>> > Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
>>>> > with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
>>>> > discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
>>>> > Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
>>>> > will never happens.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > ,,,^..^,,,
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

In spirit of working with Giovanni on finding inspiration for a new logo:




:-)  He looks pretty relaxed.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:10 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> After re-reading the first message of the thread I'm convinced that,
> despite the present logo not being offensive in any way, it can sometimes
> give a wrong impression.
>
> My humble suggestion is that we gather suggestions and, if we find none,
> maintain the logo. Otherwise change it.
>
> So here is my (serious) idea for a logo that fits with the "relax" motto:
> http://www.papeldeparede.etc.br/wallpapers/snoopy-e-woodstock_6591_1024x768.jpg
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Et_selskab_af_danske_kunstnere_i_Rom.jpg
>> is this offensive?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would assume we would discuss it as we are now.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is
>>>> absolutely no
>>>> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
>>>> with, will you change it?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
>>>> is a
>>>> > > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human
>>>> > figure
>>>> > > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>>>> >
>>>> > There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
>>>> > Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
>>>> > with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
>>>> > discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
>>>> > Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
>>>> > will never happens.
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > ,,,^..^,,,
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com>.

After re-reading the first message of the thread I'm convinced that,
despite the present logo not being offensive in any way, it can sometimes
give a wrong impression.

My humble suggestion is that we gather suggestions and, if we find none,
maintain the logo. Otherwise change it.

So here is my (serious) idea for a logo that fits with the "relax" motto:
http://www.papeldeparede.etc.br/wallpapers/snoopy-e-woodstock_6591_1024x768.jpg

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Et_selskab_af_danske_kunstnere_i_Rom.jpg
> is this offensive?
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I would assume we would discuss it as we are now.
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is absolutely
>>> no
>>> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
>>> with, will you change it?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
>>> is a
>>> > > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human
>>> > figure
>>> > > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>>> >
>>> > There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
>>> > Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
>>> > with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
>>> > discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
>>> > Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
>>> > will never happens.
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > ,,,^..^,,,
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com>.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/35/Et_selskab_af_danske_kunstnere_i_Rom.jpg
is this offensive?

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:59 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I would assume we would discuss it as we are now.
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is absolutely
>> no
>> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
>> with, will you change it?
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
>> is a
>> > > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human
>> > figure
>> > > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>> >
>> > There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
>> > Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
>> > with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
>> > discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
>> > Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
>> > will never happens.
>> >
>> > --
>> > ,,,^..^,,,
>> >
>>
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I would assume we would discuss it as we are now.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:58 AM, Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is absolutely no
> reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
> with, will you change it?
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This is
> a
> > > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human
> > figure
> > > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
> >
> > There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
> > Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
> > with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
> > discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
> > Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
> > will never happens.
> >
> > --
> > ,,,^..^,,,
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Giovanni P <fi...@gmail.com>.

If I declare myself offended (for no reason, because there is absolutely no
reason to be offended by the present logo) by the next logo you come up
with, will you change it?

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This is a
> > bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human
> figure
> > to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>
> There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
> Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
> with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
> discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
> Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
> will never happens.
>
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This is a
> bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human figure
> to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.

There are 7 billion people on Earth - you'll never fit them all.
Let's move away from abstract angry offended people to concrete ones
with their own arguments why they thought that logo hits them and
discuss their problem personally. Anyone around? Joan?
Otherwise this is counterproductive discussion about edge cases which
will never happens.

--
,,,^..^,,,

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Robert Samuel Newson <rn...@apache.org>.

I’ll add my +1 for a new logo to coincide with 2.0.

B.

> On 28 Oct 2014, at 17:22, Sinan Gabel <si...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear All!
> 
> I just want to say that I really like everything about CouchDB, the
> database, the documentation and the logo.
> 
> Best,
> Sinan
> 
> On 28 October 2014 17:38, Maria <ma...@dualpose.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:33:13 -0500
>> Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I noticed you too seem to assume it is a man on the couch?  Also, I
>>> am glad that you point out that the logo does not have anything to do
>>> with your use of CouchDB-- that encourages me to think that it will
>>> not be as big of an issue to change it.
>> 
>> When I first saw the logo I got the impression that it was showing
>> Damien Katz relaxing :)
>> 
>> // Maria
>> 
>>> It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
>>> is a bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the
>>> human figure to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>>> 
>>> Bryan
>>> On Oct 28, 2014 8:24 AM, "Maria" <ma...@dualpose.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:52:23 +0100
>>>> Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite
>>>>> interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm
>>>>> glad people shared their thoughts on it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the
>>>>> question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about
>>>>> people feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about
>>>>> personal taste or preferences. (Side note, as we're talking about
>>>>> "what does the logo remind us of?" –
>>>>> http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ )
>>>>> 
>>>>> Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the
>>>>> logo. It may have been created depicting a person without an
>>>>> explicit gender expression, and that would be completely alright.
>>>>> But good intentions do generally not mean that the intention
>>>>> aligns with the final perception. That's one of the basics of
>>>>> human interaction and communication, and our logo is part of what
>>>>> we communicate around this project. This logo is even a very
>>>>> central part, as it can be recognised very well, it has a
>>>>> prominient spot on most of CouchDB's web sites, and we even have
>>>>> stickers with it. A consequence of this can (worst case) even be
>>>>> that people stay away from the community because the logo
>>>>> communicates to them that it's not a place for them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's
>>>>> our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to
>>>>> handle this – not based on the question whether we individually
>>>>> "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could
>>>>> find it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle
>>>>> this – e.g. who could think of alternative versions of the logo,
>>>>> and similar questions. We are a community which has recently put
>>>>> up a Code of Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see
>>>>> caring about this topic as part of our responsibility here.
>>>> 
>>>> Someone somewhere is offended because their dirty imagination sees a
>>>> man on a couch inviting a girl over for some lewd action.
>>>> So?
>>>> There is always someone that is offended. Specially those that try
>>>> very hard to be offended.
>>>> 
>>>> <sarcasm>
>>>> As a woman I pick databases based on the logo. The more girls with
>>>> pink dresses and sparkling stars the better. Technical reasons like
>>>> replication and solving conflicts have nothing to do with it.
>>>> And I find a man relaxing on a couch so offensive that I will
>>>> change the database I use.
>>>> </sarcasm>
>>>> 
>>>> // Maria
>>>> 
>>>>> On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will
>>>>>> be thought to be male.  IRL.
>>>>>> On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North
>>>>>>> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on
>>>>>>>> the couch.
>>>>>>> But
>>>>>>>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is
>>>>>>>> definitely a man, in a very male attitude, and that might be
>>>>>>>> enough to put some women off becoming involved in the
>>>>>>>> community.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> sure that is totally a man position:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - benoit
>>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Sinan Gabel <si...@gmail.com>.

Dear All!

I just want to say that I really like everything about CouchDB, the
database, the documentation and the logo.

Best,
Sinan

On 28 October 2014 17:38, Maria <ma...@dualpose.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:33:13 -0500
> Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I noticed you too seem to assume it is a man on the couch?  Also, I
> > am glad that you point out that the logo does not have anything to do
> > with your use of CouchDB-- that encourages me to think that it will
> > not be as big of an issue to change it.
>
> When I first saw the logo I got the impression that it was showing
> Damien Katz relaxing :)
>
> // Maria
>
> > It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
> > is a bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the
> > human figure to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
> >
> > Bryan
> > On Oct 28, 2014 8:24 AM, "Maria" <ma...@dualpose.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:52:23 +0100
> > > Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite
> > > > interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm
> > > > glad people shared their thoughts on it.
> > > >
> > > > First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the
> > > > question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about
> > > > people feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about
> > > > personal taste or preferences. (Side note, as we're talking about
> > > > "what does the logo remind us of?" –
> > > > http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ )
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the
> > > > logo. It may have been created depicting a person without an
> > > > explicit gender expression, and that would be completely alright.
> > > > But good intentions do generally not mean that the intention
> > > > aligns with the final perception. That's one of the basics of
> > > > human interaction and communication, and our logo is part of what
> > > > we communicate around this project. This logo is even a very
> > > > central part, as it can be recognised very well, it has a
> > > > prominient spot on most of CouchDB's web sites, and we even have
> > > > stickers with it. A consequence of this can (worst case) even be
> > > > that people stay away from the community because the logo
> > > > communicates to them that it's not a place for them.
> > > >
> > > > And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's
> > > > our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to
> > > > handle this – not based on the question whether we individually
> > > > "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could
> > > > find it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle
> > > > this – e.g. who could think of alternative versions of the logo,
> > > > and similar questions. We are a community which has recently put
> > > > up a Code of Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see
> > > > caring about this topic as part of our responsibility here.
> > >
> > > Someone somewhere is offended because their dirty imagination sees a
> > > man on a couch inviting a girl over for some lewd action.
> > > So?
> > > There is always someone that is offended. Specially those that try
> > > very hard to be offended.
> > >
> > > <sarcasm>
> > > As a woman I pick databases based on the logo. The more girls with
> > > pink dresses and sparkling stars the better. Technical reasons like
> > > replication and solving conflicts have nothing to do with it.
> > > And I find a man relaxing on a couch so offensive that I will
> > > change the database I use.
> > > </sarcasm>
> > >
> > > // Maria
> > >
> > > > On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will
> > > > > be thought to be male.  IRL.
> > > > > On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North
> > > > >> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on
> > > > >>> the couch.
> > > > >> But
> > > > >>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is
> > > > >>> definitely a man, in a very male attitude, and that might be
> > > > >>> enough to put some women off becoming involved in the
> > > > >>> community.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> sure that is totally a man position:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > >
> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - benoit
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Maria <ma...@dualpose.com>.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:33:13 -0500
Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I noticed you too seem to assume it is a man on the couch?  Also, I
> am glad that you point out that the logo does not have anything to do
> with your use of CouchDB-- that encourages me to think that it will
> not be as big of an issue to change it.

When I first saw the logo I got the impression that it was showing
Damien Katz relaxing :)

// Maria

> It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This
> is a bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the
> human figure to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
> 
> Bryan
> On Oct 28, 2014 8:24 AM, "Maria" <ma...@dualpose.com> wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:52:23 +0100
> > Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite
> > > interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm
> > > glad people shared their thoughts on it.
> > >
> > > First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the
> > > question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about
> > > people feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about
> > > personal taste or preferences. (Side note, as we're talking about
> > > "what does the logo remind us of?" –
> > > http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ )
> > >
> > > Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the
> > > logo. It may have been created depicting a person without an
> > > explicit gender expression, and that would be completely alright.
> > > But good intentions do generally not mean that the intention
> > > aligns with the final perception. That's one of the basics of
> > > human interaction and communication, and our logo is part of what
> > > we communicate around this project. This logo is even a very
> > > central part, as it can be recognised very well, it has a
> > > prominient spot on most of CouchDB's web sites, and we even have
> > > stickers with it. A consequence of this can (worst case) even be
> > > that people stay away from the community because the logo
> > > communicates to them that it's not a place for them.
> > >
> > > And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's
> > > our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to
> > > handle this – not based on the question whether we individually
> > > "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could
> > > find it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle
> > > this – e.g. who could think of alternative versions of the logo,
> > > and similar questions. We are a community which has recently put
> > > up a Code of Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see
> > > caring about this topic as part of our responsibility here.
> >
> > Someone somewhere is offended because their dirty imagination sees a
> > man on a couch inviting a girl over for some lewd action.
> > So?
> > There is always someone that is offended. Specially those that try
> > very hard to be offended.
> >
> > <sarcasm>
> > As a woman I pick databases based on the logo. The more girls with
> > pink dresses and sparkling stars the better. Technical reasons like
> > replication and solving conflicts have nothing to do with it.
> > And I find a man relaxing on a couch so offensive that I will
> > change the database I use.
> > </sarcasm>
> >
> > // Maria
> >
> > > On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will
> > > > be thought to be male.  IRL.
> > > > On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North
> > > >> <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on
> > > >>> the couch.
> > > >> But
> > > >>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is
> > > >>> definitely a man, in a very male attitude, and that might be
> > > >>> enough to put some women off becoming involved in the
> > > >>> community.
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> sure that is totally a man position:
> > > >>
> > > >> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
> > > >>
> > > >> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
> > > >>
> > > >> - benoit
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> >

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I agree.  We have a definite list of complaints about the position of the
human figure on the couch.  Let's fix that at least.  If it is a man then
it is a man.  I may be a little overly sensitive to these matters currently
thanks to #gamergate.

B

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I noticed you too seem to assume it is a man on the couch?  Also, I am
> glad that you point out that the logo does not have anything to do with
> your use of CouchDB-- that encourages me to think that it will not be as
> big of an issue to change it.
>
> It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This is a
> bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human figure
> to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.
>
> Bryan
> On Oct 28, 2014 8:24 AM, "Maria" <ma...@dualpose.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:52:23 +0100
>> Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite
>> > interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm glad
>> > people shared their thoughts on it.
>> >
>> > First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the
>> > question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about people
>> > feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about personal
>> > taste or preferences. (Side note, as we're talking about "what does
>> > the logo remind us of?" – http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ )
>> >
>> > Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the logo.
>> > It may have been created depicting a person without an explicit
>> > gender expression, and that would be completely alright. But good
>> > intentions do generally not mean that the intention aligns with the
>> > final perception. That's one of the basics of human interaction and
>> > communication, and our logo is part of what we communicate around
>> > this project. This logo is even a very central part, as it can be
>> > recognised very well, it has a prominient spot on most of CouchDB's
>> > web sites, and we even have stickers with it. A consequence of this
>> > can (worst case) even be that people stay away from the community
>> > because the logo communicates to them that it's not a place for them.
>> >
>> > And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's
>> > our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to
>> > handle this – not based on the question whether we individually
>> > "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could find
>> > it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle this – e.g.
>> > who could think of alternative versions of the logo, and similar
>> > questions. We are a community which has recently put up a Code of
>> > Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see caring about this
>> > topic as part of our responsibility here.
>>
>> Someone somewhere is offended because their dirty imagination sees a
>> man on a couch inviting a girl over for some lewd action.
>> So?
>> There is always someone that is offended. Specially those that try
>> very hard to be offended.
>>
>> <sarcasm>
>> As a woman I pick databases based on the logo. The more girls with pink
>> dresses and sparkling stars the better. Technical reasons like
>> replication and solving conflicts have nothing to do with it.
>> And I find a man relaxing on a couch so offensive that I will change the
>> database I use.
>> </sarcasm>
>>
>> // Maria
>>
>> > On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will be
>> > > thought to be male.  IRL.
>> > > On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North <no...@gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the
>> > >>> couch.
>> > >> But
>> > >>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is
>> > >>> definitely a man, in a very male attitude, and that might be
>> > >>> enough to put some women off becoming involved in the community.
>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >> sure that is totally a man position:
>> > >>
>> > >> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
>> > >>
>> > >> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
>> > >>
>> > >> - benoit
>> > >>
>> >
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I noticed you too seem to assume it is a man on the couch?  Also, I am glad
that you point out that the logo does not have anything to do with your use
of CouchDB-- that encourages me to think that it will not be as big of an
issue to change it.

It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This is a
bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human figure
to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.

Bryan
On Oct 28, 2014 8:24 AM, "Maria" <ma...@dualpose.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:52:23 +0100
> Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com> wrote:
>
> > Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite
> > interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm glad
> > people shared their thoughts on it.
> >
> > First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the
> > question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about people
> > feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about personal
> > taste or preferences. (Side note, as we're talking about "what does
> > the logo remind us of?" – http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ )
> >
> > Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the logo.
> > It may have been created depicting a person without an explicit
> > gender expression, and that would be completely alright. But good
> > intentions do generally not mean that the intention aligns with the
> > final perception. That's one of the basics of human interaction and
> > communication, and our logo is part of what we communicate around
> > this project. This logo is even a very central part, as it can be
> > recognised very well, it has a prominient spot on most of CouchDB's
> > web sites, and we even have stickers with it. A consequence of this
> > can (worst case) even be that people stay away from the community
> > because the logo communicates to them that it's not a place for them.
> >
> > And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's
> > our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to
> > handle this – not based on the question whether we individually
> > "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could find
> > it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle this – e.g.
> > who could think of alternative versions of the logo, and similar
> > questions. We are a community which has recently put up a Code of
> > Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see caring about this
> > topic as part of our responsibility here.
>
> Someone somewhere is offended because their dirty imagination sees a
> man on a couch inviting a girl over for some lewd action.
> So?
> There is always someone that is offended. Specially those that try
> very hard to be offended.
>
> <sarcasm>
> As a woman I pick databases based on the logo. The more girls with pink
> dresses and sparkling stars the better. Technical reasons like
> replication and solving conflicts have nothing to do with it.
> And I find a man relaxing on a couch so offensive that I will change the
> database I use.
> </sarcasm>
>
> // Maria
>
> > On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will be
> > > thought to be male.  IRL.
> > > On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North <no...@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the
> > >>> couch.
> > >> But
> > >>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is
> > >>> definitely a man, in a very male attitude, and that might be
> > >>> enough to put some women off becoming involved in the community.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> sure that is totally a man position:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
> > >>
> > >>
> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
> > >>
> > >> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
> > >>
> > >> - benoit
> > >>
> >
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Maria <ma...@dualpose.com>.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:52:23 +0100
Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com> wrote:

> Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite
> interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm glad
> people shared their thoughts on it.
> 
> First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the
> question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about people
> feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about personal
> taste or preferences. (Side note, as we're talking about "what does
> the logo remind us of?" – http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ )
> 
> Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the logo.
> It may have been created depicting a person without an explicit
> gender expression, and that would be completely alright. But good
> intentions do generally not mean that the intention aligns with the
> final perception. That's one of the basics of human interaction and
> communication, and our logo is part of what we communicate around
> this project. This logo is even a very central part, as it can be
> recognised very well, it has a prominient spot on most of CouchDB's
> web sites, and we even have stickers with it. A consequence of this
> can (worst case) even be that people stay away from the community
> because the logo communicates to them that it's not a place for them.
> 
> And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's
> our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to
> handle this – not based on the question whether we individually
> "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could find
> it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle this – e.g.
> who could think of alternative versions of the logo, and similar
> questions. We are a community which has recently put up a Code of
> Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see caring about this
> topic as part of our responsibility here.

Someone somewhere is offended because their dirty imagination sees a
man on a couch inviting a girl over for some lewd action.
So?
There is always someone that is offended. Specially those that try
very hard to be offended.

<sarcasm>
As a woman I pick databases based on the logo. The more girls with pink
dresses and sparkling stars the better. Technical reasons like
replication and solving conflicts have nothing to do with it.
And I find a man relaxing on a couch so offensive that I will change the
database I use.
</sarcasm>

// Maria

> On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will be
> > thought to be male.  IRL.
> > On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > 
> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North <no...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the
> >>> couch.
> >> But
> >>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is
> >>> definitely a man, in a very male attitude, and that might be
> >>> enough to put some women off becoming involved in the community.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> sure that is totally a man position:
> >> 
> >> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
> >> 
> >> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
> >> 
> >> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
> >> 
> >> - benoit
> >> 
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Lena Reinhard <le...@thehoodiefirm.com>.

Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm glad people shared their thoughts on it.

First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about people feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about personal taste or preferences.
(Side note, as we're talking about "what does the logo remind us of?" – http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ )

Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the logo. It may have been created depicting a person without an explicit gender expression, and that would be completely alright. But good intentions do generally not mean that the intention aligns with the final perception. That's one of the basics of human interaction and communication, and our logo is part of what we communicate around this project. This logo is even a very central part, as it can be recognised very well, it has a prominient spot on most of CouchDB's web sites, and we even have stickers with it. A consequence of this can (worst case) even be that people stay away from the community because the logo communicates to them that it's not a place for them.

And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to handle this – not based on the question whether we individually "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could find it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle this – e.g. who could think of alternative versions of the logo, and similar questions.
We are a community which has recently put up a Code of Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see caring about this topic as part of our responsibility here.

On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com> wrote:

> When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will be thought
> to be male.  IRL.
> On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the couch.
>> But
>>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is definitely a man,
>>> in a very male attitude, and that might be enough to put some women off
>>> becoming involved in the community.
>>> 
>> 
>> sure that is totally a man position:
>> 
>> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
>> 
>> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
>> 
>> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
>> 
>> - benoit
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will be thought
to be male.  IRL.
On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North <no...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the couch.
> But
> > I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is definitely a man,
> > in a very male attitude, and that might be enough to put some women off
> > becoming involved in the community.
> >
>
> sure that is totally a man position:
>
> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
>
> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
>
> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
>
> - benoit
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Benoit Chesneau <bc...@gmail.com>.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North <no...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the couch. But
> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is definitely a man,
> in a very male attitude, and that might be enough to put some women off
> becoming involved in the community.
>

sure that is totally a man position:

http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyssen-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/

Seriously, can people just go back IRL.

- benoit

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Nick North <no...@gmail.com>.

I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the couch. But
I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is definitely a man,
in a very male attitude, and that might be enough to put some women off
becoming involved in the community.

Nick

On 28 October 2014 08:35, Thomas Lindgren <u....@gmail.com>
wrote:

> If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the
> professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design
> firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically, let
> them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving
> from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.
>
> Best,
> Thomas
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
> > someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
> >
> > I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can
> understand
> > that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude. I personally
> > don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax" statement fits
> > perfectly together.
> >
> > Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what he
> > sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term relax
> > btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because mostly men
> are
> > hanging around on a couch like this.
> >
> > So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude
> vulgar
> > or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other intention.
> Nothing
> > more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that the logo's meaning or
> > intention should be something else than that.
> >
> > As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not harm
> > anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem
> personally
> > but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to change the
> > logo.
> >
> > First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over his
> > right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague Luigi
> > noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and maybe the
> > size of the couch.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
> > p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
> > >
> > > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
> > >
> > > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > > > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > > > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo
> looks
> > > > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > > > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > > >
> > > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks
> -
> > > > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > > > its image in the open source community.
> > > >
> > > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > > >
> > > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> > > >
> > > > Or in SVG:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps
> > the
> > > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> pose
> > > > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> naturally,
> > > > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > > > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > > > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > > > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > > >
> > > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > > >
> > > >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > > >
> > > > -Joan
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andy Wenk
> > Hamburg - Germany
> > RockIt!
> >
> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >
> >  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Gabriel <al...@barbalex.ch>.

Couldn't we try to agree on what is today the most important feature of
couchdb? To me it has lots of great features but most outstanding is
syncing. The logo should represent that.

Alex
Am 28.10.2014 21:09 schrieb "Andrey Cherkashin" <an...@gmail.com>:

> My 2¢: original node.js logo was unreadable barely anyone even seen it
> because it was displayed only on main website. New node.js logo shows the
> truth - rough edges everywhere. Not to say, personally, I find original
> logo of node.js ugly and meaningless. Meanwhile, CouchDB logo is pretty
> stylish and meaningful, I mean I even have the same couch at my place. No
> mater what it will be changed to it will always offend someone; maybe new
> logo will offend someone quite/smart enough not to care about how logo
> looks like and care about product itself.
> --
> Andrey Cherkashin
> Sent with Airmail
>
> On October 28, 2014 at 12:56:10 PM, Robert Kowalski (rok@kowalski.gd)
> wrote:
>
> +1 to change the logo. Thank you Joan for pointing this out - and I also
> agree with Andy, Lena, Jason & Bryan.
>
> I have an interesting side note from changing logos in Open Source
> Projects:
>
> I hang around in the Node.js community for some years, they did change the
> logo (this is the old one:
> http://chetansurpur.com/images/blog/2010/10/node-logo.png) and there was a
> lot of discussion in the node community around that (this is the new one:
> http://nodejs.org/logo.png). A lot of people really liked the old logo and
> there was alot of discussion and sad faces about changing the logo. These
> days nobody wants the old logo back and most people don't even know that
> there was an old logo.
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:29 PM, <ju...@lisol.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm a new comer to this community and so will be missing a lot of
> > background ...
> >
> > My view is that a logo embodies more than just the graphics and is a
> > crucial part of the brand image being put out. Therefore, changing a logo
> > is not something that should be done without considerable thought.
> >
> > I would very much agree with Thomas that there may be a case for
> employing
> > a professional to come up with an alternative logo based on answers that
> > the community will them as to what exactly it is the brand should
> portray.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Lindgren [mailto:u.thomas.lindgren@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 28 October 2014 08:36
> > To: user@couchdb.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >
> > If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the
> > professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design
> > firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically,
> let
> > them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving
> > from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.
> >
> > Best,
> > Thomas
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
> > > someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
> > >
> > > I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can
> > > understand that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude.
> > > I personally don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax"
> > > statement fits perfectly together.
> > >
> > > Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what
> > > he sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term
> > > relax btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because
> > > mostly men are hanging around on a couch like this.
> > >
> > > So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude
> > > vulgar or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other
> > > intention. Nothing more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that
> > > the logo's meaning or intention should be something else than that.
> > >
> > > As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not
> > > harm anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem
> > > personally but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to
> > > change the logo.
> > >
> > > First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over
> > > his right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague
> > > Luigi noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and
> > > maybe the size of the couch.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
> > > p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
> > > >
> > > > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
> > > >
> > > > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON
> > > > > 2014, OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by
> > > > > people complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that
> > > > > the logo looks like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as
> > > > > one person put it, "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > > > >
> > > > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over
> > > > > drinks - they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about
> > > > > CouchDB and its image in the open source community.
> > > > >
> > > > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > > > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > > > >
> > > > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
> > > png
> > > > >
> > > > > Or in SVG:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
> > > svg
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that
> > > > > keeps
> > > the
> > > > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> > > > > pose to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> > > > > naturally, but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least
> > objections.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I
> > > > > can't draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If
> > > > > you're an artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an
> > > > > altered logo in reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > > > >
> > > > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > > > >
> > > > > -Joan
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Andy Wenk
> > > Hamburg - Germany
> > > RockIt!
> > >
> > > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> > >
> > > https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> > >
> >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@nms.de>.

I am basically -1 on changing the Logo because of the before discussed
points as I don't share them. Bit I have to admit, that I start to find the
idea interesting to change the Logo with 2.0. It could be refreshing and
would underline the major release ... But this is maybe a bit off topic

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014, 21:34 Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm -1 on logo change. At least until a replacement will be provided
> to decide is it worth to or not. Speaking about changing logo without
> providing any alternatives for exited one is pointless: roll the
> options and we'll vote. As for current one I like it.
> --
> ,,,^..^,,,
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Andrey Cherkashin <an...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > My 2¢: original node.js logo was unreadable barely anyone even seen it
> because it was displayed only on main website. New node.js logo shows the
> truth - rough edges everywhere. Not to say, personally, I find original
> logo of node.js ugly and meaningless. Meanwhile, CouchDB logo is pretty
> stylish and meaningful, I mean I even have the same couch at my place. No
> mater what it will be changed to it will always offend someone; maybe new
> logo will offend someone quite/smart enough not to care about how logo
> looks like and care about product itself.
> > --
> > Andrey Cherkashin
> > Sent with Airmail
> >
> > On October 28, 2014 at 12:56:10 PM, Robert Kowalski (rok@kowalski.gd)
> wrote:
> >
> > +1 to change the logo. Thank you Joan for pointing this out - and I also
> > agree with Andy, Lena, Jason & Bryan.
> >
> > I have an interesting side note from changing logos in Open Source
> Projects:
> >
> > I hang around in the Node.js community for some years, they did change
> the
> > logo (this is the old one:
> > http://chetansurpur.com/images/blog/2010/10/node-logo.png) and there
> was a
> > lot of discussion in the node community around that (this is the new one:
> > http://nodejs.org/logo.png). A lot of people really liked the old logo
> and
> > there was alot of discussion and sad faces about changing the logo. These
> > days nobody wants the old logo back and most people don't even know that
> > there was an old logo.
> >
> > On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:29 PM, <ju...@lisol.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> I'm a new comer to this community and so will be missing a lot of
> >> background ...
> >>
> >> My view is that a logo embodies more than just the graphics and is a
> >> crucial part of the brand image being put out. Therefore, changing a
> logo
> >> is not something that should be done without considerable thought.
> >>
> >> I would very much agree with Thomas that there may be a case for
> employing
> >> a professional to come up with an alternative logo based on answers that
> >> the community will them as to what exactly it is the brand should
> portray.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Justin
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Thomas Lindgren [mailto:u.thomas.lindgren@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: 28 October 2014 08:36
> >> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
> >>
> >> If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the
> >> professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good
> design
> >> firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically,
> let
> >> them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving
> >> from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Thomas
> >>
> >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi,
> >> >
> >> > first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
> >> > someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
> >> >
> >> > I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can
> >> > understand that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude.
> >> > I personally don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax"
> >> > statement fits perfectly together.
> >> >
> >> > Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what
> >> > he sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term
> >> > relax btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because
> >> > mostly men are hanging around on a couch like this.
> >> >
> >> > So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude
> >> > vulgar or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other
> >> > intention. Nothing more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that
> >> > the logo's meaning or intention should be something else than that.
> >> >
> >> > As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not
> >> > harm anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem
> >> > personally but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to
> >> > change the logo.
> >> >
> >> > First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over
> >> > his right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague
> >> > Luigi noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and
> >> > maybe the size of the couch.
> >> >
> >> > Cheers
> >> >
> >> > Andy
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
> >> > p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
> >> > >
> >> > > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
> >> > >
> >> > > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON
> >> > > > 2014, OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by
> >> > > > people complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that
> >> > > > the logo looks like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as
> >> > > > one person put it, "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >> > > >
> >> > > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over
> >> > > > drinks - they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about
> >> > > > CouchDB and its image in the open source community.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> >> > > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo
> .
> >> > png
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Or in SVG:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo
> .
> >> > svg
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that
> >> > > > keeps
> >> > the
> >> > > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> >> > > > pose to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> >> > > > naturally, but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least
> >> objections.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I
> >> > > > can't draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If
> >> > > > you're an artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an
> >> > > > altered logo in reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >> > > >
> >> > > > -Joan
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Andy Wenk
> >> > Hamburg - Germany
> >> > RockIt!
> >> >
> >> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >> >
> >> > https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >> >
> >>
> >>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Alexander Shorin <kx...@gmail.com>.

I'm -1 on logo change. At least until a replacement will be provided
to decide is it worth to or not. Speaking about changing logo without
providing any alternatives for exited one is pointless: roll the
options and we'll vote. As for current one I like it.
--
,,,^..^,,,


On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 11:09 PM, Andrey Cherkashin <an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> My 2¢: original node.js logo was unreadable barely anyone even seen it because it was displayed only on main website. New node.js logo shows the truth - rough edges everywhere. Not to say, personally, I find original logo of node.js ugly and meaningless. Meanwhile, CouchDB logo is pretty stylish and meaningful, I mean I even have the same couch at my place. No mater what it will be changed to it will always offend someone; maybe new logo will offend someone quite/smart enough not to care about how logo looks like and care about product itself.
> --
> Andrey Cherkashin
> Sent with Airmail
>
> On October 28, 2014 at 12:56:10 PM, Robert Kowalski (rok@kowalski.gd) wrote:
>
> +1 to change the logo. Thank you Joan for pointing this out - and I also
> agree with Andy, Lena, Jason & Bryan.
>
> I have an interesting side note from changing logos in Open Source Projects:
>
> I hang around in the Node.js community for some years, they did change the
> logo (this is the old one:
> http://chetansurpur.com/images/blog/2010/10/node-logo.png) and there was a
> lot of discussion in the node community around that (this is the new one:
> http://nodejs.org/logo.png). A lot of people really liked the old logo and
> there was alot of discussion and sad faces about changing the logo. These
> days nobody wants the old logo back and most people don't even know that
> there was an old logo.
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:29 PM, <ju...@lisol.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm a new comer to this community and so will be missing a lot of
>> background ...
>>
>> My view is that a logo embodies more than just the graphics and is a
>> crucial part of the brand image being put out. Therefore, changing a logo
>> is not something that should be done without considerable thought.
>>
>> I would very much agree with Thomas that there may be a case for employing
>> a professional to come up with an alternative logo based on answers that
>> the community will them as to what exactly it is the brand should portray.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Justin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Thomas Lindgren [mailto:u.thomas.lindgren@gmail.com]
>> Sent: 28 October 2014 08:36
>> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>>
>> If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the
>> professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design
>> firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically, let
>> them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving
>> from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.
>>
>> Best,
>> Thomas
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
>> > someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
>> >
>> > I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can
>> > understand that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude.
>> > I personally don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax"
>> > statement fits perfectly together.
>> >
>> > Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what
>> > he sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term
>> > relax btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because
>> > mostly men are hanging around on a couch like this.
>> >
>> > So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude
>> > vulgar or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other
>> > intention. Nothing more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that
>> > the logo's meaning or intention should be something else than that.
>> >
>> > As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not
>> > harm anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem
>> > personally but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to
>> > change the logo.
>> >
>> > First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over
>> > his right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague
>> > Luigi noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and
>> > maybe the size of the couch.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> >
>> > Andy
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
>> > p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
>> > >
>> > > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
>> > >
>> > > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON
>> > > > 2014, OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by
>> > > > people complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that
>> > > > the logo looks like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as
>> > > > one person put it, "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>> > > >
>> > > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over
>> > > > drinks - they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about
>> > > > CouchDB and its image in the open source community.
>> > > >
>> > > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
>> > > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>> > > >
>> > > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
>> > png
>> > > >
>> > > > Or in SVG:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
>> > svg
>> > > >
>> > > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that
>> > > > keeps
>> > the
>> > > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
>> > > > pose to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
>> > > > naturally, but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least
>> objections.
>> > > >
>> > > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I
>> > > > can't draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If
>> > > > you're an artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an
>> > > > altered logo in reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>> > > >
>> > > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>> > > >
>> > > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>> > > >
>> > > > -Joan
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Andy Wenk
>> > Hamburg - Germany
>> > RockIt!
>> >
>> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> >
>> > https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>> >
>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andrey Cherkashin <an...@gmail.com>.

My 2¢: original node.js logo was unreadable barely anyone even seen it because it was displayed only on main website. New node.js logo shows the truth - rough edges everywhere. Not to say, personally, I find original logo of node.js ugly and meaningless. Meanwhile, CouchDB logo is pretty stylish and meaningful, I mean I even have the same couch at my place. No mater what it will be changed to it will always offend someone; maybe new logo will offend someone quite/smart enough not to care about how logo looks like and care about product itself. 
-- 
Andrey Cherkashin
Sent with Airmail

On October 28, 2014 at 12:56:10 PM, Robert Kowalski (rok@kowalski.gd) wrote:

+1 to change the logo. Thank you Joan for pointing this out - and I also  
agree with Andy, Lena, Jason & Bryan.  

I have an interesting side note from changing logos in Open Source Projects:  

I hang around in the Node.js community for some years, they did change the  
logo (this is the old one:  
http://chetansurpur.com/images/blog/2010/10/node-logo.png) and there was a  
lot of discussion in the node community around that (this is the new one:  
http://nodejs.org/logo.png). A lot of people really liked the old logo and  
there was alot of discussion and sad faces about changing the logo. These  
days nobody wants the old logo back and most people don't even know that  
there was an old logo.  

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:29 PM, <ju...@lisol.co.uk> wrote:  

> Hi,  
>  
> I'm a new comer to this community and so will be missing a lot of  
> background ...  
>  
> My view is that a logo embodies more than just the graphics and is a  
> crucial part of the brand image being put out. Therefore, changing a logo  
> is not something that should be done without considerable thought.  
>  
> I would very much agree with Thomas that there may be a case for employing  
> a professional to come up with an alternative logo based on answers that  
> the community will them as to what exactly it is the brand should portray.  
>  
> Thanks,  
> Justin  
>  
> -----Original Message-----  
> From: Thomas Lindgren [mailto:u.thomas.lindgren@gmail.com]  
> Sent: 28 October 2014 08:36  
> To: user@couchdb.apache.org  
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo  
>  
> If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the  
> professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design  
> firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically, let  
> them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving  
> from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.  
>  
> Best,  
> Thomas  
>  
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:  
>  
> > Hi,  
> >  
> > first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if  
> > someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.  
> >  
> > I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can  
> > understand that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude.  
> > I personally don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax"  
> > statement fits perfectly together.  
> >  
> > Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what  
> > he sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term  
> > relax btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because  
> > mostly men are hanging around on a couch like this.  
> >  
> > So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude  
> > vulgar or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other  
> > intention. Nothing more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that  
> > the logo's meaning or intention should be something else than that.  
> >  
> > As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not  
> > harm anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem  
> > personally but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to  
> > change the logo.  
> >  
> > First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over  
> > his right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague  
> > Luigi noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and  
> > maybe the size of the couch.  
> >  
> > Cheers  
> >  
> > Andy  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <  
> > p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:  
> >  
> > > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.  
> > >  
> > > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:  
> > >  
> > > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON  
> > > > 2014, OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by  
> > > > people complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that  
> > > > the logo looks like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as  
> > > > one person put it, "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."  
> > > >  
> > > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over  
> > > > drinks - they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about  
> > > > CouchDB and its image in the open source community.  
> > > >  
> > > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the  
> > > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.  
> > > >  
> > > > As a reminder here is our current logo:  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > >  
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.  
> > png  
> > > >  
> > > > Or in SVG:  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > >  
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.  
> > svg  
> > > >  
> > > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that  
> > > > keeps  
> > the  
> > > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the  
> > > > pose to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,  
> > > > naturally, but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least  
> objections.  
> > > >  
> > > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I  
> > > > can't draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If  
> > > > you're an artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an  
> > > > altered logo in reply to this thread that fixes the problem?  
> > > >  
> > > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:  
> > > >  
> > > > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/  
> > > >  
> > > > -Joan  
> > > >  
> > > >  
> > >  
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > --  
> > Andy Wenk  
> > Hamburg - Germany  
> > RockIt!  
> >  
> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588  
> >  
> > https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc  
> >  
>  
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Robert Kowalski <ro...@kowalski.gd>.

+1 to change the logo. Thank you Joan for pointing this out - and I also
agree with Andy, Lena, Jason & Bryan.

I have an interesting side note from changing logos in Open Source Projects:

I hang around in the Node.js community for some years, they did change the
logo (this is the old one:
http://chetansurpur.com/images/blog/2010/10/node-logo.png) and there was a
lot of discussion in the node community around that (this is the new one:
http://nodejs.org/logo.png). A lot of people really liked the old logo and
there was alot of discussion and sad faces about changing the logo. These
days nobody wants the old logo back and most people don't even know that
there was an old logo.

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:29 PM, <ju...@lisol.co.uk> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm a new comer to this community and so will be missing a lot of
> background ...
>
> My view is that a logo embodies more than just the graphics and is a
> crucial part of the brand image being put out. Therefore, changing a logo
> is not something that should be done without considerable thought.
>
> I would very much agree with Thomas that there may be a case for employing
> a professional to come up with an alternative logo based on answers that
> the community will them as to what exactly it is the brand should portray.
>
> Thanks,
> Justin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Lindgren [mailto:u.thomas.lindgren@gmail.com]
> Sent: 28 October 2014 08:36
> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
>
> If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the
> professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design
> firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically, let
> them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving
> from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.
>
> Best,
> Thomas
>
> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
> > someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
> >
> > I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can
> > understand that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude.
> > I personally don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax"
> > statement fits perfectly together.
> >
> > Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what
> > he sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term
> > relax btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because
> > mostly men are hanging around on a couch like this.
> >
> > So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude
> > vulgar or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other
> > intention. Nothing more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that
> > the logo's meaning or intention should be something else than that.
> >
> > As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not
> > harm anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem
> > personally but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to
> > change the logo.
> >
> > First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over
> > his right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague
> > Luigi noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and
> > maybe the size of the couch.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
> > p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
> > >
> > > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
> > >
> > > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON
> > > > 2014, OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by
> > > > people complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that
> > > > the logo looks like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as
> > > > one person put it, "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > > >
> > > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over
> > > > drinks - they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about
> > > > CouchDB and its image in the open source community.
> > > >
> > > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > > >
> > > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
> > png
> > > >
> > > > Or in SVG:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
> > svg
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that
> > > > keeps
> > the
> > > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the
> > > > pose to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome,
> > > > naturally, but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least
> objections.
> > > >
> > > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I
> > > > can't draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If
> > > > you're an artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an
> > > > altered logo in reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > > >
> > > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > > >
> > > >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > > >
> > > > -Joan
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Andy Wenk
> > Hamburg - Germany
> > RockIt!
> >
> > GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
> >
> >  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> >
>
>

RE: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by ju...@lisol.co.uk.

Hi,

I'm a new comer to this community and so will be missing a lot of background ...

My view is that a logo embodies more than just the graphics and is a crucial part of the brand image being put out. Therefore, changing a logo is not something that should be done without considerable thought.

I would very much agree with Thomas that there may be a case for employing a professional to come up with an alternative logo based on answers that the community will them as to what exactly it is the brand should portray.

Thanks,
Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Lindgren [mailto:u.thomas.lindgren@gmail.com] 
Sent: 28 October 2014 08:36
To: user@couchdb.apache.org
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically, let them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.

Best,
Thomas

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if 
> someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
>
> I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can 
> understand that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude. 
> I personally don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax" 
> statement fits perfectly together.
>
> Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what 
> he sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term 
> relax btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because 
> mostly men are hanging around on a couch like this.
>
> So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude 
> vulgar or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other 
> intention. Nothing more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that 
> the logo's meaning or intention should be something else than that.
>
> As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not 
> harm anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem 
> personally but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to 
> change the logo.
>
> First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over 
> his right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague 
> Luigi noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and 
> maybe the size of the couch.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington < 
> p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
> >
> > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
> >
> > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 
> > > 2014, OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by 
> > > people complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that 
> > > the logo looks like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as 
> > > one person put it, "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > >
> > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over 
> > > drinks - they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about 
> > > CouchDB and its image in the open source community.
> > >
> > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the 
> > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > >
> > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
> png
> > >
> > > Or in SVG:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.
> svg
> > >
> > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that 
> > > keeps
> the
> > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the 
> > > pose to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, 
> > > naturally, but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> > >
> > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I 
> > > can't draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If 
> > > you're an artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an 
> > > altered logo in reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > >
> > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > >
> > >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > >
> > > -Joan
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Thomas Lindgren <u....@gmail.com>.

If you want to change the logo, I recommend doing it the
professional/business way: putting up some money and hiring a good design
firm. They've done it before and have a broader perspective. Basically, let
them ask you the questions about the brand; no design back seat driving
from you; choose among the alternatives they give you, or ask for more.

Best,
Thomas

On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:14 AM, Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
> someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.
>
> I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can understand
> that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude. I personally
> don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax" statement fits
> perfectly together.
>
> Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what he
> sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term relax
> btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because mostly men are
> hanging around on a couch like this.
>
> So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude vulgar
> or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other intention. Nothing
> more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that the logo's meaning or
> intention should be something else than that.
>
> As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not harm
> anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem personally
> but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to change the
> logo.
>
> First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over his
> right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague Luigi
> noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and maybe the
> size of the couch.
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
> p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
> >
> > 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
> >
> > > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> > > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> > >
> > > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> > > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > > its image in the open source community.
> > >
> > > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> > >
> > > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> > >
> > > Or in SVG:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> > >
> > > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps
> the
> > > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> > > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> > > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> > >
> > > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> > >
> > > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> > >
> > >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> > >
> > > -Joan
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
>  https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Andy Wenk <an...@apache.org>.

Hi,

first of all thanks to Joan for bringing this up. As Paul stated, if
someone is feeling attacked we should discuss it.

I have viewed (if not gazed) the logo for several minutes. I can understand
that someone is seeing a man with a maybe vulgar attitude. I personally
don't see that. The whole idea combined with the "Relax" statement fits
perfectly together.

Then I started to ask Luigi, our senior designer, and asked him what he
sees. He said "a relaxed man on a couch" (he did not know the term relax
btw.). I asked him why he said "a man". He answered, because mostly men are
hanging around on a couch like this.

So yes, it is a relaxed man and someone could interpret his attitude vulgar
or offensive. But it's still a relaxed man with no other intention. Nothing
more. I am not sure why someone could assume, that the logo's meaning or
intention should be something else than that.

As a member of this community, I am feeling very responsible to not harm
anyone. Be it women or men. In this case, I don't see a problem personally
but I will for sure help to find a solution if we decide to change the logo.

First shot for a minimal change: let the man cross his left leg over his
right leg. Unfortunately this is not simple to do as my colleague Luigi
noted. It would mean to also change the position of the man and maybe the
size of the couch.

Cheers

Andy

On 28 October 2014 08:40, Pedro Narciso García Revington <
p.revington@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.
>
> 2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:
>
> > At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> > OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> > complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> > like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> > "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
> >
> > These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> > they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> > its image in the open source community.
> >
> > I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> > saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
> >
> > As a reminder here is our current logo:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
> >
> > Or in SVG:
> >
> >
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
> >
> > I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> > same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> > to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> > but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
> >
> > Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> > draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> > artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> > reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
> >
> > You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
> >
> >   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
> >
> > -Joan
> >
> >
>

-- 
Andy Wenk
Hamburg - Germany
RockIt!

GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588

 https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Pedro Narciso García Revington <p....@gmail.com>.

I like the logo and I do not see the reason to change it.

2014-10-28 1:27 GMT+01:00 Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org>:

> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo

Posted by Bryan Green <db...@gmail.com>.

I think it would be interesting just to get rid of the person altogether
and have some sort of stylized couch.

Bryan Green aka "lispyone"

On Mon, Oct 27, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Joan Touzet <wo...@apache.org> wrote:

> At 3 different conferences I've attended in 2014: CloudantCON 2014,
> OSCON 2014 and Velocity NYC 2014, I've been approached by people
> complaining about the CouchDB logo. The argument is that the logo looks
> like a man who is posed in a suggestive way, or as one person put it,
> "showing you his crotch and inviting you over."
>
> These were not lighthearted expressions of concern to me over drinks -
> they were heartfelt complaints from people who care about CouchDB and
> its image in the open source community.
>
> I must admit I didn't think it was an issue at first, but like the
> saying goes, once you've seen it, you can't un-see it.
>
> As a reminder here is our current logo:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.png
>
> Or in SVG:
>
> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/couchdb-logo.svg
>
> I'd like to propose improving the logo with a new drawing that keeps the
> same theme - red couch, reclining figure in white - but alters the pose
> to be a bit less suggestive. Other suggestions are welcome, naturally,
> but a redrawn current-style logo probably has the least objections.
>
> Of course, if we agree to such a change, I'll need your help. I can't
> draw, and I'm sure many of the rest of you can't either. If you're an
> artist, and you agree, would you consider posting an altered logo in
> reply to this thread that fixes the problem?
>
> You can find all of the source files (Adobe Illustrator) at:
>
>   https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/couchdb/supplement/logo/
>
> -Joan
>
>