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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> on 2007/04/05 20:19:53 UTC
Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCF proposal (was: [Proposal] RCF - a rich component library for JSF)])
On 4/5/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de> wrote:
> Well,
>
> incubator policy is able to contradict itself on one and the same page:
>
> http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html
>
> [...]
> Acceptance By Incubator
> [...]
> * the Mentors, nominated by the Sponsor, who will guide the Candidate
> through the Incubation Process. At least one nominated Mentor MUST be a
> member of the Apache Software Foundation.
>
> [...]
>
> Roles Defined
> Mentor
> [...]
> A Mentor is a role undertaken by a permanent member of the Apache
> Software Foundation and is chosen by the Sponsor to actively lead in the
> discharge of their duties (listed above).
>
> [...]
>
> So what is it? A mentor must be a member or at least one mentor must be
> a member?
i've always assumed that every mentor needed to be a member but IMHO
we should really consider what the rule should be and then vote to
amend the policy appropriately.
- robert
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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCF proposal
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 06 April 2007 12:26, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> > On Friday 06 April 2007 12:03, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> >> Mentors must be on the iPMC, most iPMC members are ASF members (very
> >> rare that it is otherwise,
> >
> > Yes, I have noticed that ;o)
> > But I am one such rare case, so I see the distinction, and since an ASF
> > Member has the right to be member of IPMC, the 'ladder' exist. Now time
> > to define the "Required Level of Mentor" and whether each Mentor has the
> > same requirement or if there is a "Group Requirement" for the mentors.
>
> howso w.r.t. requirements? What are you meaning here?
Some people has assumed that "One of the Mentors must be an ASF Member", which
means it is a 'group requirement' and not a requirement of each individual
mentor. I have no strong opinion about it, just highlighting the distinction
and a "whether" to say we should address it.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote]
RCF proposal
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 06 April 2007 12:03, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
>> Mentors must be on the iPMC, most iPMC members are ASF members (very rare
>> that it is otherwise,
>
> Yes, I have noticed that ;o)
> But I am one such rare case, so I see the distinction, and since an ASF Member
> has the right to be member of IPMC, the 'ladder' exist. Now time to define
> the "Required Level of Mentor" and whether each Mentor has the same
> requirement or if there is a "Group Requirement" for the mentors.
howso w.r.t. requirements? What are you meaning here?
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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCF proposal
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 06 April 2007 12:03, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote:
> Mentors must be on the iPMC, most iPMC members are ASF members (very rare
> that it is otherwise,
Yes, I have noticed that ;o)
But I am one such rare case, so I see the distinction, and since an ASF Member
has the right to be member of IPMC, the 'ladder' exist. Now time to define
the "Required Level of Mentor" and whether each Mentor has the same
requirement or if there is a "Group Requirement" for the mentors.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote]
RCF proposal
Posted by "William A. Rowe, Jr." <wr...@rowe-clan.net>.
Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> On Friday 06 April 2007 05:44, Jean T. Anderson wrote:
>> I had recalled this being discussed before [1] because Cayenne had a
>> mentor who was not a member.
>
> So we are talking about a couple of variants;
>
> 1. An ASF Member.
> 2. An IPMC member.
> 3. A PMC member of the sponsoring PMC.
> 4. Any PMC member.
> 5. Any member of any of the Apache communities (committers, users)
>
> My interpretation has always been "All Mentors MUST be ASF Members."
> This has apparently not been the case, and I agree that we need to define it
> better in the policy documents.
Mentors must be on the iPMC, most iPMC members are ASF members (very rare
that it is otherwise, by the time someone has the insight to be on the
iPMC and be a trusted mentor, they are likely already have met the very
fuzzy criteria for ASF membership).
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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCF proposal
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Friday 06 April 2007 05:44, Jean T. Anderson wrote:
> I had recalled this being discussed before [1] because Cayenne had a
> mentor who was not a member.
So we are talking about a couple of variants;
1. An ASF Member.
2. An IPMC member.
3. A PMC member of the sponsoring PMC.
4. Any PMC member.
5. Any member of any of the Apache communities (committers, users)
My interpretation has always been "All Mentors MUST be ASF Members."
This has apparently not been the case, and I agree that we need to define it
better in the policy documents.
Cheers
--
Niclas Hedhman, Software Developer
I live here; http://tinyurl.com/2qq9er
I work here; http://tinyurl.com/2ymelc
I relax here; http://tinyurl.com/2cgsug
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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCF proposal (was: [Proposal] RCF - a rich component library for JSF)])
Posted by Alex Karasulu <ak...@apache.org>.
On 4/5/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/5/07, Henning Schmiedehausen <hp...@intermeta.de> wrote:
> > Well,
> >
> > incubator policy is able to contradict itself on one and the same page:
> >
> > http://incubator.apache.org/incubation/Incubation_Policy.html
> >
> > [...]
> > Acceptance By Incubator
> > [...]
> > * the Mentors, nominated by the Sponsor, who will guide the Candidate
> > through the Incubation Process. At least one nominated Mentor MUST be a
> > member of the Apache Software Foundation.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Roles Defined
> > Mentor
> > [...]
> > A Mentor is a role undertaken by a permanent member of the Apache
> > Software Foundation and is chosen by the Sponsor to actively lead in the
> > discharge of their duties (listed above).
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > So what is it? A mentor must be a member or at least one mentor must be
> > a member?
>
> i've always assumed that every mentor needed to be a member but IMHO
> we should really consider what the rule should be and then vote to
> amend the policy appropriately.
Same here. I assumed this myself, however I am beginning to think that this
does not necessarily
need to be the case. For example we have people on the IPMC that are not
members
and would be excellent mentors or members for that matter.
Alex
Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote]
RCF proposal
Posted by "Jean T. Anderson" <jt...@bristowhill.com>.
I had recalled this being discussed before [1] because Cayenne had a
mentor who was not a member.
"Noel J. Bergman" <no...@devtech.com> wrote on Fri, 14 Jul 2006:
> Bruce Snyder wrote:
>
>> What do you mean fix the doc? Is it not the policy that mentors be
>> members? I've seen and been involved in discussions where this was
>> used as a reason that non-members could not be mentors of an
>> incubating project.
>
> Mentors are (MUST BE) Incubator PMC Members. ASF Members are automatically
> eligible for PMC membership; non-Members may be elected at the discretion of
> the Incubator PMC. The Incubator PMC is understandably selective, but we
> have had non-Members as Mentors, more than once.
>
> --- Noel
[1]
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200607.mbox/%3cNBBBJGEAGJAKLIDBKJOPEENBJDAC.noel@devtech.com%3e
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Re: Mentors and members (was: Re: Mentors On IPMC [WAS Re: [Vote] RCF proposal (was: [Proposal] RCF - a rich component library for JSF)])
Posted by Ted Husted <hu...@apache.org>.
On 4/5/07, robert burrell donkin <ro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i've always assumed that every mentor needed to be a member but IMHO
> we should really consider what the rule should be and then vote to
> amend the policy appropriately.
At one time, there was only one mentor, and now there are three, and
the discrepancy probably crept in during that state change.
For mentors, I'd suggest every Mentor be a ASF Member or a iPMC
Member. Nearly all iPMC members are ASF members anyway, and any who
are not are probably should be.
-Ted.
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