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Posted to dev@qpid.apache.org by Jonathan Robie <jo...@redhat.com> on 2010/04/27 15:18:48 UTC
Proposed directory structure for web site
I think we're converging on using svnpubsub to maintain documentation.
We need to determine our directory structure. Any of these structures
make sense to me. In all cases, qpid.apache.org includes Rajith's
index.html and associated .css, etc., as well as the DocBook generated
files. It would contain links to the download directory and the Wiki,
but not include them.
Here are some possible directory structures:
1. Make the web site a subdirectory of doc
doc/src <-- XML source files
doc/build <-- the build directory
doc/qpid.apache.org <-- the Apache web site, starting with index.html,
and including all documentation.
2. Make the web site a parallel directory to doc
qpd/cpp
qpid/doc
qpid/qpid.apache.org
I suppose it would also be logically possible to have the web site be on
a separate svn branch, or even in a separate svn repository.
I'm inclined to go with #2. Does anyone else have strong feelings on this?
Jonathan
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Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Rajika Kumarasiri <ra...@wso2.com>.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. If you need any help around this, I am
available.
Rajika
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 8:39 PM, Robbie Gemmell <ro...@gmail.com>wrote:
> Hi Rajika,
>
> I had been intending to reply to the JIRAs Sebb raised earlier, however the
> JIRA system has not been responding so ill just reply here for now.
>
> The website has always had such a navigation menu, however the ASF's
> Atlassian Confluence installation has just been upgraded following the
> recent outbreak of Atlassian JIRA installations being compromised, and the
> result of this upgrade has been that some existing themes (such as the one
> we are using) are now incompatible and as a result of this various ASF
> project's automated website export systems have been impacted by breakages
> such as the navigation elements not being present on the export.
>
> You have found part of the discussions that have taken place in the last
> week or so relating to our website. We have for some time had intention to
> move away from using a Confluence export as our website, this is just
> another example of why we should. Hopefully very soon we will be moving to
> a
> more static website with documentation generated from DocBook sources kept
> in our code repository.
>
> Robbie
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rajika Kumarasiri [mailto:rajika@wso2.com]
> > Sent: 01 May 2010 15:38
> > To: dev@qpid.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
> >
> > I think I am not making any noise in middle of this discussion.
> > When I browse through the qpid web site I faced with some of the
> > problems
> > reported in [1]. I think we need to re-arrange the web site with the
> > same
> > content in a more user friendly manner where a user pick what he/she
> > wants
> > in minimum time. What I suggest is the following left panel menu and
> > site
> > should be generated with maven site plugin[2].
> >
> > + Download
> > | + Releases
> > | + Source code
> > |
> > + Documentation
> > | + Quick start guide
> > | + Wiki
> > | + Javadocs
> > |
> > + Project Information
> > | + Mailing lists
> > | + Building from source
> > | + Issue Tracking
> > | + Project Team
> > | + Project Summary
> > |
> > + ASF
> > + Foundation
> >
> > etc..,
> >
> > Rajika
> >
> > [1] - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/QPID-2563
> > [2] - http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-site-plugin/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Jonathan Robie
> > <jo...@redhat.com>wrote:
> >
> > > On 04/27/2010 11:04 AM, Andrew Stitcher wrote:
> > >
> > >> This might actually be a place where the "stupid" arrangement of our
> > >> repo to have a superfluous "qpid" directory might help:
> > >>
> > >> Currently the repo structure is actually:
> > >>
> > >> qpid
> > >> + trunk
> > >> +qpid
> > >> + branches
> > >> +<branchname>
> > >> + qpid
> > >>
> > >> So we could use the existing structure and put the checked in docs
> > in
> > >> parallel like:
> > >> ....qpid/trunk/qpid.apache.org
> > >>
> > >> But actually I'd prefer a simpler solution - why not just make it
> > >> completely separate viz:
> > >> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/qpid/qpid.apache.org
> > >>
> > >> Either of these places will avoid the usual dev check out from
> > picking
> > >> up the checked in web source.
> > >>
> > >> If infrastructure are happy to give us a completely separate repo
> > then
> > >> this might be better as it would be easier to give it its own access
> > >> control.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > OK, I'll run this by #asfinfra and pick one of the two directory
> > structures
> > > shown above.
> > >
> > > Jonathan
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
> > > Project: http://qpid.apache.org
> > > Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://rajikak.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
> Project: http://qpid.apache.org
> Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>
>
--
http://rajikak.blogspot.com/
RE: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Robbie Gemmell <ro...@gmail.com>.
Hi Rajika,
I had been intending to reply to the JIRAs Sebb raised earlier, however the
JIRA system has not been responding so ill just reply here for now.
The website has always had such a navigation menu, however the ASF's
Atlassian Confluence installation has just been upgraded following the
recent outbreak of Atlassian JIRA installations being compromised, and the
result of this upgrade has been that some existing themes (such as the one
we are using) are now incompatible and as a result of this various ASF
project's automated website export systems have been impacted by breakages
such as the navigation elements not being present on the export.
You have found part of the discussions that have taken place in the last
week or so relating to our website. We have for some time had intention to
move away from using a Confluence export as our website, this is just
another example of why we should. Hopefully very soon we will be moving to a
more static website with documentation generated from DocBook sources kept
in our code repository.
Robbie
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rajika Kumarasiri [mailto:rajika@wso2.com]
> Sent: 01 May 2010 15:38
> To: dev@qpid.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
>
> I think I am not making any noise in middle of this discussion.
> When I browse through the qpid web site I faced with some of the
> problems
> reported in [1]. I think we need to re-arrange the web site with the
> same
> content in a more user friendly manner where a user pick what he/she
> wants
> in minimum time. What I suggest is the following left panel menu and
> site
> should be generated with maven site plugin[2].
>
> + Download
> | + Releases
> | + Source code
> |
> + Documentation
> | + Quick start guide
> | + Wiki
> | + Javadocs
> |
> + Project Information
> | + Mailing lists
> | + Building from source
> | + Issue Tracking
> | + Project Team
> | + Project Summary
> |
> + ASF
> + Foundation
>
> etc..,
>
> Rajika
>
> [1] - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/QPID-2563
> [2] - http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-site-plugin/
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Jonathan Robie
> <jo...@redhat.com>wrote:
>
> > On 04/27/2010 11:04 AM, Andrew Stitcher wrote:
> >
> >> This might actually be a place where the "stupid" arrangement of our
> >> repo to have a superfluous "qpid" directory might help:
> >>
> >> Currently the repo structure is actually:
> >>
> >> qpid
> >> + trunk
> >> +qpid
> >> + branches
> >> +<branchname>
> >> + qpid
> >>
> >> So we could use the existing structure and put the checked in docs
> in
> >> parallel like:
> >> ....qpid/trunk/qpid.apache.org
> >>
> >> But actually I'd prefer a simpler solution - why not just make it
> >> completely separate viz:
> >> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/qpid/qpid.apache.org
> >>
> >> Either of these places will avoid the usual dev check out from
> picking
> >> up the checked in web source.
> >>
> >> If infrastructure are happy to give us a completely separate repo
> then
> >> this might be better as it would be easier to give it its own access
> >> control.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > OK, I'll run this by #asfinfra and pick one of the two directory
> structures
> > shown above.
> >
> > Jonathan
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
> > Project: http://qpid.apache.org
> > Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> http://rajikak.blogspot.com/
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Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Rajika Kumarasiri <ra...@wso2.com>.
I think I am not making any noise in middle of this discussion.
When I browse through the qpid web site I faced with some of the problems
reported in [1]. I think we need to re-arrange the web site with the same
content in a more user friendly manner where a user pick what he/she wants
in minimum time. What I suggest is the following left panel menu and site
should be generated with maven site plugin[2].
+ Download
| + Releases
| + Source code
|
+ Documentation
| + Quick start guide
| + Wiki
| + Javadocs
|
+ Project Information
| + Mailing lists
| + Building from source
| + Issue Tracking
| + Project Team
| + Project Summary
|
+ ASF
+ Foundation
etc..,
Rajika
[1] - https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/QPID-2563
[2] - http://maven.apache.org/plugins/maven-site-plugin/
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Jonathan Robie
<jo...@redhat.com>wrote:
> On 04/27/2010 11:04 AM, Andrew Stitcher wrote:
>
>> This might actually be a place where the "stupid" arrangement of our
>> repo to have a superfluous "qpid" directory might help:
>>
>> Currently the repo structure is actually:
>>
>> qpid
>> + trunk
>> +qpid
>> + branches
>> +<branchname>
>> + qpid
>>
>> So we could use the existing structure and put the checked in docs in
>> parallel like:
>> ....qpid/trunk/qpid.apache.org
>>
>> But actually I'd prefer a simpler solution - why not just make it
>> completely separate viz:
>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/qpid/qpid.apache.org
>>
>> Either of these places will avoid the usual dev check out from picking
>> up the checked in web source.
>>
>> If infrastructure are happy to give us a completely separate repo then
>> this might be better as it would be easier to give it its own access
>> control.
>>
>>
>
> OK, I'll run this by #asfinfra and pick one of the two directory structures
> shown above.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
> Project: http://qpid.apache.org
> Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>
>
--
http://rajikak.blogspot.com/
Re: PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Rajith Attapattu <ra...@gmail.com>.
+1
Rajith
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 11:20 AM, Steve Huston <sh...@riverace.com> wrote:
> Sounds ok to me...
>
> Thanks,
> -Steve
>
>> Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
>> qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they recommended.
>>
>> Jonathan
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
>> Project: http://qpid.apache.org
>> Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
> Project: http://qpid.apache.org
> Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>
>
--
Regards,
Rajith Attapattu
Red Hat
http://rajith.2rlabs.com/
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Re: PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Alan Conway <ac...@redhat.com>.
On 05/03/2010 10:55 AM, Jonathan Robie wrote:
> On 05/03/2010 10:42 AM, Alan Conway wrote:
>> On 04/28/2010 10:47 AM, Jonathan Robie wrote:
>>> Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
>>> qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they recommended.
>>>
>>
>> Sorry to jump in late, was on vacation. Just want to verify: this new
>> repo is for the _source_ for our new web site, the full site will be
>> generated to a non-SVN directory on a web server somewhere. I.e. we're
>> not planning to hit the apache SVN server every time someone clicks on
>> our site.
>
> The generated site will be static html pages, and clicking on these
> pages will not hit the Apache SVN server.
>
> But these pages are the same pages that we will check into
> dist.apache.org. A daemon listens for check-ins, and copies them to the
> appropriate place on the web site.
>
Yes, on catching up with email I see this has been discussed in detail, I have
no objections.
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Re: PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Jonathan Robie <jo...@redhat.com>.
On 05/03/2010 10:42 AM, Alan Conway wrote:
> On 04/28/2010 10:47 AM, Jonathan Robie wrote:
>> Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
>> qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they recommended.
>>
>
> Sorry to jump in late, was on vacation. Just want to verify: this new
> repo is for the _source_ for our new web site, the full site will be
> generated to a non-SVN directory on a web server somewhere. I.e. we're
> not planning to hit the apache SVN server every time someone clicks on
> our site.
The generated site will be static html pages, and clicking on these
pages will not hit the Apache SVN server.
But these pages are the same pages that we will check into
dist.apache.org. A daemon listens for check-ins, and copies them to the
appropriate place on the web site.
Jonathan
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Re: PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Alan Conway <ac...@redhat.com>.
On 04/28/2010 10:47 AM, Jonathan Robie wrote:
> Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
> qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they recommended.
>
Sorry to jump in late, was on vacation. Just want to verify: this new repo is
for the _source_ for our new web site, the full site will be generated to a
non-SVN directory on a web server somewhere. I.e. we're not planning to hit the
apache SVN server every time someone clicks on our site.
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Re: PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Martin Ritchie <ri...@apache.org>.
On 28 Apr 2010, at 18:01, Andrew Stitcher <as...@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 10:47 -0400, Jonathan Robie wrote:
>> Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
>> qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they
>> recommended.
>
> I think that sounds better than overloading the project src repo.
>
> Andrew
Sounds good to me too.
Who are we to argue with infra. :)
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
> Project: http://qpid.apache.org
> Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>
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Re: PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Andrew Stitcher <as...@redhat.com>.
On Wed, 2010-04-28 at 10:47 -0400, Jonathan Robie wrote:
> Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
> qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they recommended.
I think that sounds better than overloading the project src repo.
Andrew
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RE: PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Steve Huston <sh...@riverace.com>.
Sounds ok to me...
Thanks,
-Steve
> Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
> qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they recommended.
>
> Jonathan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> Apache Qpid - AMQP Messaging Implementation
> Project: http://qpid.apache.org
> Use/Interact: mailto:dev-subscribe@qpid.apache.org
>
>
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PROPOSAL: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Jonathan Robie <jo...@redhat.com>.
Unless someone objects, I will ask #asfinfra to set up the
qpid.apache.org svn in dist.apache.org. This is what they recommended.
Jonathan
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Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Jonathan Robie <jo...@redhat.com>.
On 04/27/2010 11:04 AM, Andrew Stitcher wrote:
> This might actually be a place where the "stupid" arrangement of our
> repo to have a superfluous "qpid" directory might help:
>
> Currently the repo structure is actually:
>
> qpid
> + trunk
> +qpid
> + branches
> +<branchname>
> + qpid
>
> So we could use the existing structure and put the checked in docs in
> parallel like:
> ....qpid/trunk/qpid.apache.org
>
> But actually I'd prefer a simpler solution - why not just make it
> completely separate viz:
> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/qpid/qpid.apache.org
>
> Either of these places will avoid the usual dev check out from picking
> up the checked in web source.
>
> If infrastructure are happy to give us a completely separate repo then
> this might be better as it would be easier to give it its own access
> control.
>
OK, I'll run this by #asfinfra and pick one of the two directory
structures shown above.
Jonathan
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Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Andrew Stitcher <as...@redhat.com>.
On Tue, 2010-04-27 at 10:47 -0400, Rafael Schloming wrote:
> Jonathan Robie wrote:
> > I think we're converging on using svnpubsub to maintain documentation.
> >
> > We need to determine our directory structure. Any of these structures
> > make sense to me. In all cases, qpid.apache.org includes Rajith's
> > index.html and associated .css, etc., as well as the DocBook generated
> > files. It would contain links to the download directory and the Wiki,
> > but not include them.
> >
> > Here are some possible directory structures:
> >
> > 1. Make the web site a subdirectory of doc
> >
> > doc/src <-- XML source files
> > doc/build <-- the build directory
> > doc/qpid.apache.org <-- the Apache web site, starting with index.html,
> > and including all documentation.
> >
> >
> > 2. Make the web site a parallel directory to doc
> >
> > qpd/cpp
> > qpid/doc
> > qpid/qpid.apache.org
> >
> > I suppose it would also be logically possible to have the web site be on
> > a separate svn branch, or even in a separate svn repository.
> >
> > I'm inclined to go with #2. Does anyone else have strong feelings on this?
>
> I think the web site really needs to be a distinct repo from the one we
> use for code for a few reasons.
>
> First, it is very confusing and generally considered horribly bad
> practice to mix source code and generated artifacts in the same repo.
> This confuses build systems to no end since most build systems are
> predicated upon the concept that they are the only thing that ever
> modifies the output files. However if the output files are in svn, then
> an svn update can cause an older file to appear newer than the input
> resulting in very confusing and broken behavior where the build system
> doesn't actually build everything that needs to be built. In this
> circumstance this could very easily lead to a broken and partially
> updated web site, especially when developers follow the best practice of
> doing an svn update prior to building in order to ensure they are
> working from fresh sources.
>
> Secondly, I don't want to be exposed to getting multi-megabyte diffs
> everytime someone updates the web site.
>
> Thirdly, the doc source should be part of the source release (i.e. an
> svn export), however the generated web site should *not*.
>
> And finally, I think that if we're using svnpubsub for the web site, we
> may well want to have other portions of the site in svn, not just the
> docs, so the web site repo should be organized to reflect this.
+1 - I agree on all counts.
This might actually be a place where the "stupid" arrangement of our
repo to have a superfluous "qpid" directory might help:
Currently the repo structure is actually:
qpid
+ trunk
+qpid
+ branches
+<branchname>
+ qpid
So we could use the existing structure and put the checked in docs in
parallel like:
....qpid/trunk/qpid.apache.org
But actually I'd prefer a simpler solution - why not just make it
completely separate viz:
http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/qpid/qpid.apache.org
Either of these places will avoid the usual dev check out from picking
up the checked in web source.
If infrastructure are happy to give us a completely separate repo then
this might be better as it would be easier to give it its own access
control.
Andrew
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Project: http://qpid.apache.org
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Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Rafael Schloming <ra...@redhat.com>.
Jonathan Robie wrote:
> I think we're converging on using svnpubsub to maintain documentation.
>
> We need to determine our directory structure. Any of these structures
> make sense to me. In all cases, qpid.apache.org includes Rajith's
> index.html and associated .css, etc., as well as the DocBook generated
> files. It would contain links to the download directory and the Wiki,
> but not include them.
>
> Here are some possible directory structures:
>
> 1. Make the web site a subdirectory of doc
>
> doc/src <-- XML source files
> doc/build <-- the build directory
> doc/qpid.apache.org <-- the Apache web site, starting with index.html,
> and including all documentation.
>
>
> 2. Make the web site a parallel directory to doc
>
> qpd/cpp
> qpid/doc
> qpid/qpid.apache.org
>
> I suppose it would also be logically possible to have the web site be on
> a separate svn branch, or even in a separate svn repository.
>
> I'm inclined to go with #2. Does anyone else have strong feelings on this?
I think the web site really needs to be a distinct repo from the one we
use for code for a few reasons.
First, it is very confusing and generally considered horribly bad
practice to mix source code and generated artifacts in the same repo.
This confuses build systems to no end since most build systems are
predicated upon the concept that they are the only thing that ever
modifies the output files. However if the output files are in svn, then
an svn update can cause an older file to appear newer than the input
resulting in very confusing and broken behavior where the build system
doesn't actually build everything that needs to be built. In this
circumstance this could very easily lead to a broken and partially
updated web site, especially when developers follow the best practice of
doing an svn update prior to building in order to ensure they are
working from fresh sources.
Secondly, I don't want to be exposed to getting multi-megabyte diffs
everytime someone updates the web site.
Thirdly, the doc source should be part of the source release (i.e. an
svn export), however the generated web site should *not*.
And finally, I think that if we're using svnpubsub for the web site, we
may well want to have other portions of the site in svn, not just the
docs, so the web site repo should be organized to reflect this.
--Rafael
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Re: Proposed directory structure for web site
Posted by Jonathan Robie <jo...@redhat.com>.
On 04/27/2010 09:18 AM, Jonathan Robie wrote:
> 2. Make the web site a parallel directory to doc
>
> qpd/cpp
> qpid/doc
> qpid/qpid.apache.org
This is what I'll do if nobody complains ;->
Jonathan
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