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Posted to dev@community.apache.org by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> on 2018/12/13 08:34:07 UTC
Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Hi all,
at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT area. A lot of the work I have been doing is to help make all of these work together.
PLC4X – NiFi Integration
PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
PLC4X – Camel Integration
PLC4X – Edgent Integration
Edgent - … integration
However sometimes I could for example need some help by NiFi Guys to check my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide suggestions on how to improve our connector, …
There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up to date for all the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave no time to actually work on things.
So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for our projects, how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each of these categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
What do you think?
Chris
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Andrew Palumbo <ap...@outlook.com>.
+1
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Roy Lenferink <le...@gmail.com>.
Sounds good. Using the self-service platform it indeed is fairly easy to
request the mailing list(s) ;)
Roy
Op zo 30 dec. 2018 om 18:01 schreef Christofer Dutz <
christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>:
> I think creating them wouldn't be a huge overhead ...
>
> and then we could simply notify the dev-lists of the projects tagged with
> a given category about the new list.
> This way anyone could signup.
>
> Chris
>
> Am 30.12.18, 17:38 schrieb "Roy Lenferink" <rl...@apache.org>:
>
> Are we starting with iot@ or are we creating other lists as well, e.g.
> streaming@ (Flink, Spark, Storm, Heron .....) and big-data@ (Hadoop,
> Metron
> ....) and so on.
> And were do we document the existence of these lists or do we leave it
> to
> the projects if they want to point to the iot@a.o (as an example)
> mailing
> list?
>
> - Roy
>
> Op zo 30 dec. 2018 om 14:56 schreef Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>:
>
> > So how would we create such a list?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Am 17.12.18, 09:44 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>:
> >
> > Well I'd be happy to help moderating this. What's "one more
> list" in
> > the moderation inbox?
> >
> > Do we have to vote on setting up the "iot@apache.org" list ...
> if yes
> > ... do we do it here? Or could someone just create it.
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > PS: Do we have a web-tool for moderation? Right now all
> moderators get
> > the same email and I can't see if someone else already accepted or
> rejected
> > a message ... would be great if there was some "moderation inbox"
> with
> > accept and reject buttons to quickly moderate all lists someone is
> listed
> > as moderator for.
> >
> >
> > Am 16.12.18, 14:53 schrieb "Rich Bowen" <rb...@rcbowen.com>:
> >
> > +1 to the concept, and there's precedent with the geospatial
> list.
> >
> > Bertrand mentions the tech@ list but I don't think anybody
> knows
> > that it's
> > there or what it is for. Lists with topic names seem to have
> better
> > discoverability.
> >
> > Note also that they attract more spam so ensure that you
> have some
> > willing
> > moderators.
> >
> > I think an iot@ list is a great way to attract new
> participants
> > who aren't
> > already aware of the various projects and what they do.
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 03:34 Christofer Dutz <
> > christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT
> area.
> > A lot of
> > > the work I have been doing is to help make all of these
> work
> > together.
> > > PLC4X – NiFi Integration
> > > PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
> > > PLC4X – Camel Integration
> > > PLC4X – Edgent Integration
> > > Edgent - … integration
> > >
> > > However sometimes I could for example need some help by
> NiFi
> > Guys to check
> > > my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide
> > suggestions on how to
> > > improve our connector, …
> > >
> > > There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up
> to
> > date for all
> > > the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave
> no
> > time to
> > > actually work on things.
> > >
> > > So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for
> our
> > projects,
> > > how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for
> each
> > of these
> > > categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
> > >
> > > What do you think?
> > >
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
>
>
>
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Michael Pavino <mi...@gmail.com>.
Michaelpavino@email.com
On Jan 3, 2019 7:08 PM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
Hi Chris,
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any
focus. I think
> this would prevent people from subscribing....
It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
which is scary ;-)
But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
provided someone is willing to take care of them.
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
On 6/7/19 3:26 AM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 4:02 PM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>> ...I would really like to create aniot@apache.org mailinglist...
> Allow me to insist;-)
>
> What's wrong with an [iot] subject line tag on atech@apache.org mailing list?
I've heard of this tech@ list, but never subscribed. I just went looking
for it, to see what traffic was like, and it is not listed on
lists.apache.org . Is this a theoretical list, or an actual one?
--
Rich Bowen - rbowen@rcbowen.com
http://rcbowen.com/
@rbowen
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Lars Francke <la...@gmail.com>.
We can have both. And if we can have only one thing I'm in favor of the
project category list that Chris suggested.
If we have one huge list it'll just mean more mails etc., people having to
set up filters or skip over stuff they are not interested in.
I can imagine a single bigdata@ list to be super useful for coordination
between all those scattered projects: <
https://projects.apache.org/projects.html?category> (hadoop has its own
category there, a bit confusing)
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 9:26 AM Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 4:02 PM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > ...I would really like to create an iot@apache.org mailinglist...
>
> Allow me to insist ;-)
>
> What's wrong with an [iot] subject line tag on a tech@apache.org mailing
> list?
>
> The problem with single-topic lists is that discussions are rarely
> single-topic: if you have a question about memory leaks in Java in a
> Docker image that runs in an iot context, and we have multiple
> java|docker|memorymanagement|iot lists, where are you going to post?
>
> Cross-posting is ugly...writing to tech@apache.org with
> [java][memory][docker][iot] subject line tags will work, and having a
> single list will help get critical mass about "the place where Apache
> community members discuss cross-cutting technical issues".
>
> But whoever does the work decides...
>
> -Bertrand
>
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>
>
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
On Fri, 7 Jun 2019 at 12:58, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Hi Bertrand,
>
> There was a discussion about subscription only lists ... is that possible?
Yes, that can be requested.
A bit more work for contributors up front, but less work for moderators.
To forestall questions, I recommend explaining the choice (and why it
was made) on the page that advertises the list.
> But I think if I sign up as moderator for c) I would probably start writing a moderation-bot
> as soon as I get more than 2 moderation emails with the same title in the payload:
>
> -> decline all of them __
>
> Chris
>
> Am 07.06.19, 13:52 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:44 PM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > ...So I guess we'll just vote on it ... do we have 2-way votes?..
>
> You can setup any poll or vote that works, I'd say
>
> a) no new list
> b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
> [subject][line][tags] only
> c) create an iot@a.o list
>
> Keep in mind that the comdev PMC will own any new list, so you'll need
> volunteers to moderate them. I would volunteer but for b) only ;-)
>
> -Bertrand
>
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>
>
>
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Bertrand,
There was a discussion about subscription only lists ... is that possible?
But I think if I sign up as moderator for c) I would probably start writing a moderation-bot
as soon as I get more than 2 moderation emails with the same title in the payload:
-> decline all of them __
Chris
Am 07.06.19, 13:52 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
Hi Chris,
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:44 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...So I guess we'll just vote on it ... do we have 2-way votes?..
You can setup any poll or vote that works, I'd say
a) no new list
b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
[subject][line][tags] only
c) create an iot@a.o list
Keep in mind that the comdev PMC will own any new list, so you'll need
volunteers to moderate them. I would volunteer but for b) only ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Chris,
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 1:44 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...So I guess we'll just vote on it ... do we have 2-way votes?..
You can setup any poll or vote that works, I'd say
a) no new list
b) create a tech@a.o list that's expected to be used with
[subject][line][tags] only
c) create an iot@a.o list
Keep in mind that the comdev PMC will own any new list, so you'll need
volunteers to moderate them. I would volunteer but for b) only ;-)
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
I Bertrand,
Well I still think that I personally would rather sign up to an
iot@apache.org mailinglist than to a tech@apache.org one.
So I guess we'll just vote on it ... do we have 2-way votes?
Sort of:
-1: No: don't want any list
+T: Yes, but want a tech-list
+I: Yes, but want an IoT-list
Chris
Am 07.06.19, 13:33 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 12:48 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...For me it looks as if tech@ would be one huge list ...
It *might* eventually become large, then big, then huge...but like
everything it will start small.
If it does indeed grow, it *might* be fine to farm out specific busy
topics to their own lists.
Until then, a single list is the best way to create momentum around a
place to have cross-cutting technical discussions at the ASF.
I think I've exposed my position, multiple times so I'll stop now and
as mentioned whoever does the work decides.
Please just keep the <tongue-in-cheek>Wisdom Of The
Elders<tongue-in-cheek> in mind, as reported at
https://grep.codeconsult.ch/2011/12/06/stefanos-mazzocchis-busy-list-pattern/
(blog post of mine based on content provided by Stefano Mazzocchi’s,
Apache Cocoon's original author)
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Alex,
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 6:03 PM Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.invalid> wrote:
> ...Does the ASF have an example of a cross-project list that failed?...
I cannot remember that - I pointed to Stefano's Law of Busy Lists as a
reason to create a single tech@ list as opposed to multiple ones for
smaller audiences.
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Alex Harui <ah...@adobe.com.INVALID>.
Hi Bertrand,
Your link took me to a post about splitting lists because some list is busy, but AIUI, this proposal for iot@ is to communicate between related projects. Does the ASF have an example of a cross-project list that failed?
Thanks,
-Alex
On 6/7/19, 4:34 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 12:48 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...For me it looks as if tech@ would be one huge list ...
It *might* eventually become large, then big, then huge...but like
everything it will start small.
If it does indeed grow, it *might* be fine to farm out specific busy
topics to their own lists.
Until then, a single list is the best way to create momentum around a
place to have cross-cutting technical discussions at the ASF.
I think I've exposed my position, multiple times so I'll stop now and
as mentioned whoever does the work decides.
Please just keep the <tongue-in-cheek>Wisdom Of The
Elders<tongue-in-cheek> in mind, as reported at
https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgrep.codeconsult.ch%2F2011%2F12%2F06%2Fstefanos-mazzocchis-busy-list-pattern%2F&data=02%7C01%7Caharui%40adobe.com%7Cd4a971a7b8914177060c08d6eb3c0d32%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C636955040515183248&sdata=dHSIBSpDbUNxaXn2mFx1DfznQfYvEgLpMWXMq8OsrOQ%3D&reserved=0
(blog post of mine based on content provided by Stefano Mazzocchi’s,
Apache Cocoon's original author)
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Fri, Jun 7, 2019 at 12:48 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...For me it looks as if tech@ would be one huge list ...
It *might* eventually become large, then big, then huge...but like
everything it will start small.
If it does indeed grow, it *might* be fine to farm out specific busy
topics to their own lists.
Until then, a single list is the best way to create momentum around a
place to have cross-cutting technical discussions at the ASF.
I think I've exposed my position, multiple times so I'll stop now and
as mentioned whoever does the work decides.
Please just keep the <tongue-in-cheek>Wisdom Of The
Elders<tongue-in-cheek> in mind, as reported at
https://grep.codeconsult.ch/2011/12/06/stefanos-mazzocchis-busy-list-pattern/
(blog post of mine based on content provided by Stefano Mazzocchi’s,
Apache Cocoon's original author)
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Bertrand,
For me it looks as if tech@ would be one huge list ...
and the amount of emails of interest to me would be only a fraction.
Having named topic lists would help focus.
It would allow to skim the topics and react on the ones of interest.
Guess a tech-list would just feel like being on one of those project lists,
Here they do most discussions in guthub pull-requests and who's mailinglists
have almost no emails of interest anymore or I just can't find them in
between 10000000 of bot emails.
Chris
Am 07.06.19, 09:26 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
Hi Chris,
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 4:02 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...I would really like to create an iot@apache.org mailinglist...
Allow me to insist ;-)
What's wrong with an [iot] subject line tag on a tech@apache.org mailing list?
The problem with single-topic lists is that discussions are rarely
single-topic: if you have a question about memory leaks in Java in a
Docker image that runs in an iot context, and we have multiple
java|docker|memorymanagement|iot lists, where are you going to post?
Cross-posting is ugly...writing to tech@apache.org with
[java][memory][docker][iot] subject line tags will work, and having a
single list will help get critical mass about "the place where Apache
community members discuss cross-cutting technical issues".
But whoever does the work decides...
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Chris,
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 4:02 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...I would really like to create an iot@apache.org mailinglist...
Allow me to insist ;-)
What's wrong with an [iot] subject line tag on a tech@apache.org mailing list?
The problem with single-topic lists is that discussions are rarely
single-topic: if you have a question about memory leaks in Java in a
Docker image that runs in an iot context, and we have multiple
java|docker|memorymanagement|iot lists, where are you going to post?
Cross-posting is ugly...writing to tech@apache.org with
[java][memory][docker][iot] subject line tags will work, and having a
single list will help get critical mass about "the place where Apache
community members discuss cross-cutting technical issues".
But whoever does the work decides...
-Bertrand
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Myrle Krantz <my...@apache.org>.
I agree too. Setting up lists like this would also make it easier to
orchestrate tracks and BoFs for conferences.
Best,
Myrle
On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 9:10 PM Julian Feinauer <jf...@apache.org> wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> I agree with your suggestion and I see a real need for that.
> I am active in multiple projects / podlings in the iot ecosystem and there
> are many people not knowing what others are doing and there is very few
> "glue" between these projects.
> This is a pitty, as it really helps to get a bigger picture of whats
> happening under the apache umbrella in the iot world (as its quite a lot).
>
> I really liked how eclipse handled their iot project and spend effort on
> bringing their seperate communities together.
>
> Julian
>
> On 2019/06/06 14:03:43, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>
> wrote:
> > Ok ... that went out prematurely ;-)
> >
> > But not much more to say.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Am 06.06.19, 16:02 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> >:
> >
> > Refreshing this ... as I noticed again that other projects don't
> seem to be aware of what we have in the ASF ... I would really like to
> create an iot@apache.org mailinglist, which is subscribers-only.
> >
> > Any objections?
> >
> > Am 03.01.19, 15:57 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>:
> >
> > That sounds good ... didn't even know this was possible __ ...
> you never stop learning __
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Am 03.01.19, 14:33 schrieb "sebb" <se...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > It may be worth asking Infra to set up the list so that
> moderation is
> > not required.
> > i.e. only subscribers may post.
> >
> > This obviously requires a bit more work initially for the
> poster, but
> > the list is presumably intended for more than casual use.
> >
> > There will still need to be a moderator to take care of bad
> posters,
> > but the amount of work is drastically reduced.
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 12:11, Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > Well naturally I would opt in as Moderator for taking care
> of this.
> > > iot@apache.org
> > >
> > > Chris
> > >
> > > Am 03.01.19, 12:08 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <
> bdelacretaz@apache.org>:
> > >
> > > Hi Chris,
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
> > > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > > > ...But I think in this case we get another general
> list without any focus. I think
> > > > this would prevent people from subscribing....
> > >
> > > It is certainly a question of balance, but I was
> hearing "it's easy to
> > > create lists so let's create several that nobody
> really asked for"
> > > which is scary ;-)
> > >
> > > But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to
> creating lists
> > > provided someone is willing to take care of them.
> > >
> > > -Bertrand
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
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> >
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Julian Feinauer <jf...@apache.org>.
Hi Chris,
I agree with your suggestion and I see a real need for that.
I am active in multiple projects / podlings in the iot ecosystem and there are many people not knowing what others are doing and there is very few "glue" between these projects.
This is a pitty, as it really helps to get a bigger picture of whats happening under the apache umbrella in the iot world (as its quite a lot).
I really liked how eclipse handled their iot project and spend effort on bringing their seperate communities together.
Julian
On 2019/06/06 14:03:43, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> Ok ... that went out prematurely ;-)
>
> But not much more to say.
>
> Chris
>
> Am 06.06.19, 16:02 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
>
> Refreshing this ... as I noticed again that other projects don't seem to be aware of what we have in the ASF ... I would really like to create an iot@apache.org mailinglist, which is subscribers-only.
>
> Any objections?
>
> Am 03.01.19, 15:57 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
>
> That sounds good ... didn't even know this was possible __ ... you never stop learning __
>
> Chris
>
> Am 03.01.19, 14:33 schrieb "sebb" <se...@gmail.com>:
>
> It may be worth asking Infra to set up the list so that moderation is
> not required.
> i.e. only subscribers may post.
>
> This obviously requires a bit more work initially for the poster, but
> the list is presumably intended for more than casual use.
>
> There will still need to be a moderator to take care of bad posters,
> but the amount of work is drastically reduced.
>
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 12:11, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> >
> > Well naturally I would opt in as Moderator for taking care of this.
> > iot@apache.org
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > Am 03.01.19, 12:08 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
> > <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > > ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think
> > > this would prevent people from subscribing....
> >
> > It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
> > create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
> > which is scary ;-)
> >
> > But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
> > provided someone is willing to take care of them.
> >
> > -Bertrand
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
>
>
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>
> ?B�KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB�?�?[��X��ܚX�K??K[XZ[?�??]�][��X��ܚX�P?��[][�]?K�\?X�?K�ܙ�B��܈?Y??]?[ۘ[??��[X[�?�??K[XZ[?�??]�Z?[???��[][�]?K�\?X�?K�ܙ�B�B
>
>
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Ok ... that went out prematurely ;-)
But not much more to say.
Chris
Am 06.06.19, 16:02 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
Refreshing this ... as I noticed again that other projects don't seem to be aware of what we have in the ASF ... I would really like to create an iot@apache.org mailinglist, which is subscribers-only.
Any objections?
Am 03.01.19, 15:57 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
That sounds good ... didn't even know this was possible __ ... you never stop learning __
Chris
Am 03.01.19, 14:33 schrieb "sebb" <se...@gmail.com>:
It may be worth asking Infra to set up the list so that moderation is
not required.
i.e. only subscribers may post.
This obviously requires a bit more work initially for the poster, but
the list is presumably intended for more than casual use.
There will still need to be a moderator to take care of bad posters,
but the amount of work is drastically reduced.
On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 12:11, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Well naturally I would opt in as Moderator for taking care of this.
> iot@apache.org
>
> Chris
>
> Am 03.01.19, 12:08 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think
> > this would prevent people from subscribing....
>
> It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
> create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
> which is scary ;-)
>
> But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
> provided someone is willing to take care of them.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
>
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?B�KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKCB�?�?[��X��ܚX�K??K[XZ[?�??]�][��X��ܚX�P?��[][�]?K�\?X�?K�ܙ�B��܈?Y??]?[ۘ[??��[X[�?�??K[XZ[?�??]�Z?[???��[][�]?K�\?X�?K�ܙ�B�B
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Refreshing this ... as I noticed again that other projects don't seem to be aware of what we have in the ASF ... I would really like to create an iot@apache.org mailinglist, which is subscribers-only.
Any objections?
Am 03.01.19, 15:57 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
That sounds good ... didn't even know this was possible __ ... you never stop learning __
Chris
Am 03.01.19, 14:33 schrieb "sebb" <se...@gmail.com>:
It may be worth asking Infra to set up the list so that moderation is
not required.
i.e. only subscribers may post.
This obviously requires a bit more work initially for the poster, but
the list is presumably intended for more than casual use.
There will still need to be a moderator to take care of bad posters,
but the amount of work is drastically reduced.
On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 12:11, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Well naturally I would opt in as Moderator for taking care of this.
> iot@apache.org
>
> Chris
>
> Am 03.01.19, 12:08 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think
> > this would prevent people from subscribing....
>
> It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
> create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
> which is scary ;-)
>
> But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
> provided someone is willing to take care of them.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
That sounds good ... didn't even know this was possible __ ... you never stop learning __
Chris
Am 03.01.19, 14:33 schrieb "sebb" <se...@gmail.com>:
It may be worth asking Infra to set up the list so that moderation is
not required.
i.e. only subscribers may post.
This obviously requires a bit more work initially for the poster, but
the list is presumably intended for more than casual use.
There will still need to be a moderator to take care of bad posters,
but the amount of work is drastically reduced.
On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 12:11, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Well naturally I would opt in as Moderator for taking care of this.
> iot@apache.org
>
> Chris
>
> Am 03.01.19, 12:08 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think
> > this would prevent people from subscribing....
>
> It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
> create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
> which is scary ;-)
>
> But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
> provided someone is willing to take care of them.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
>
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by sebb <se...@gmail.com>.
It may be worth asking Infra to set up the list so that moderation is
not required.
i.e. only subscribers may post.
This obviously requires a bit more work initially for the poster, but
the list is presumably intended for more than casual use.
There will still need to be a moderator to take care of bad posters,
but the amount of work is drastically reduced.
On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 12:11, Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
>
> Well naturally I would opt in as Moderator for taking care of this.
> iot@apache.org
>
> Chris
>
> Am 03.01.19, 12:08 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
> <ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> > ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think
> > this would prevent people from subscribing....
>
> It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
> create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
> which is scary ;-)
>
> But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
> provided someone is willing to take care of them.
>
> -Bertrand
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Well naturally I would opt in as Moderator for taking care of this.
iot@apache.org
Chris
Am 03.01.19, 12:08 schrieb "Bertrand Delacretaz" <bd...@apache.org>:
Hi Chris,
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think
> this would prevent people from subscribing....
It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
which is scary ;-)
But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
provided someone is willing to take care of them.
-Bertrand
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Chris,
On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:20 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think
> this would prevent people from subscribing....
It is certainly a question of balance, but I was hearing "it's easy to
create lists so let's create several that nobody really asked for"
which is scary ;-)
But maybe it's just my perception - I'm not opposed to creating lists
provided someone is willing to take care of them.
-Bertrand
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Hi Bertrand,
But I think in this case we get another general list without any focus. I think this would prevent people from subscribing. For me it wouldn't be that interesting subscribing to a list that generic. A specialized list would lower the bar for subscribing, I think. And after all, the main purpose of such a list is helping the inter-project knowledge transfer - at least that was the reason I proposed it - so it could even be restricted to committers ... Don't think we need another super-user-list, and if we want one, that would be a totally different topic (at least for me)
Chris
Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36> herunterladen
________________________________
From: Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 10:48:33 AM
To: dev
Subject: Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 6:01 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...I think creating them wouldn't be a huge overhead .....
Creating lists is easy but that doesn't mean they will be used, and
oversight of multiple lists is a burden (for comdev? or which PMC is
in charge of them?). And scattered discussions don't help building
communities.
What if someone has a question on streaming for IoT devices used in
Big Data contexts? Cross-posting to 3 lists is a guaranteed mess and
you'll often forget that other list which would also have been
interested.
I strongly suggest starting with a single tech@ list with [subject
line tags] as mentioned earlier in this thread, and create more lists
*only* if there is too much traffic on a given topic.
[1] has more info on why we like busy lists as opposed to multiple ones.
-Bertrand
[1] https://grep.codeconsult.ch/2011/12/06/stefanos-mazzocchis-busy-list-pattern/
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 6:01 PM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...I think creating them wouldn't be a huge overhead .....
Creating lists is easy but that doesn't mean they will be used, and
oversight of multiple lists is a burden (for comdev? or which PMC is
in charge of them?). And scattered discussions don't help building
communities.
What if someone has a question on streaming for IoT devices used in
Big Data contexts? Cross-posting to 3 lists is a guaranteed mess and
you'll often forget that other list which would also have been
interested.
I strongly suggest starting with a single tech@ list with [subject
line tags] as mentioned earlier in this thread, and create more lists
*only* if there is too much traffic on a given topic.
[1] has more info on why we like busy lists as opposed to multiple ones.
-Bertrand
[1] https://grep.codeconsult.ch/2011/12/06/stefanos-mazzocchis-busy-list-pattern/
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
I think creating them wouldn't be a huge overhead ...
and then we could simply notify the dev-lists of the projects tagged with a given category about the new list.
This way anyone could signup.
Chris
Am 30.12.18, 17:38 schrieb "Roy Lenferink" <rl...@apache.org>:
Are we starting with iot@ or are we creating other lists as well, e.g.
streaming@ (Flink, Spark, Storm, Heron .....) and big-data@ (Hadoop, Metron
....) and so on.
And were do we document the existence of these lists or do we leave it to
the projects if they want to point to the iot@a.o (as an example) mailing
list?
- Roy
Op zo 30 dec. 2018 om 14:56 schreef Christofer Dutz <
christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>:
> So how would we create such a list?
>
> Chris
>
> Am 17.12.18, 09:44 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
>
> Well I'd be happy to help moderating this. What's "one more list" in
> the moderation inbox?
>
> Do we have to vote on setting up the "iot@apache.org" list ... if yes
> ... do we do it here? Or could someone just create it.
>
>
> Chris
>
> PS: Do we have a web-tool for moderation? Right now all moderators get
> the same email and I can't see if someone else already accepted or rejected
> a message ... would be great if there was some "moderation inbox" with
> accept and reject buttons to quickly moderate all lists someone is listed
> as moderator for.
>
>
> Am 16.12.18, 14:53 schrieb "Rich Bowen" <rb...@rcbowen.com>:
>
> +1 to the concept, and there's precedent with the geospatial list.
>
> Bertrand mentions the tech@ list but I don't think anybody knows
> that it's
> there or what it is for. Lists with topic names seem to have better
> discoverability.
>
> Note also that they attract more spam so ensure that you have some
> willing
> moderators.
>
> I think an iot@ list is a great way to attract new participants
> who aren't
> already aware of the various projects and what they do.
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 03:34 Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT area.
> A lot of
> > the work I have been doing is to help make all of these work
> together.
> > PLC4X – NiFi Integration
> > PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
> > PLC4X – Camel Integration
> > PLC4X – Edgent Integration
> > Edgent - … integration
> >
> > However sometimes I could for example need some help by NiFi
> Guys to check
> > my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide
> suggestions on how to
> > improve our connector, …
> >
> > There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up to
> date for all
> > the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave no
> time to
> > actually work on things.
> >
> > So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for our
> projects,
> > how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each
> of these
> > categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Roy Lenferink <rl...@apache.org>.
Are we starting with iot@ or are we creating other lists as well, e.g.
streaming@ (Flink, Spark, Storm, Heron .....) and big-data@ (Hadoop, Metron
....) and so on.
And were do we document the existence of these lists or do we leave it to
the projects if they want to point to the iot@a.o (as an example) mailing
list?
- Roy
Op zo 30 dec. 2018 om 14:56 schreef Christofer Dutz <
christofer.dutz@c-ware.de>:
> So how would we create such a list?
>
> Chris
>
> Am 17.12.18, 09:44 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
>
> Well I'd be happy to help moderating this. What's "one more list" in
> the moderation inbox?
>
> Do we have to vote on setting up the "iot@apache.org" list ... if yes
> ... do we do it here? Or could someone just create it.
>
>
> Chris
>
> PS: Do we have a web-tool for moderation? Right now all moderators get
> the same email and I can't see if someone else already accepted or rejected
> a message ... would be great if there was some "moderation inbox" with
> accept and reject buttons to quickly moderate all lists someone is listed
> as moderator for.
>
>
> Am 16.12.18, 14:53 schrieb "Rich Bowen" <rb...@rcbowen.com>:
>
> +1 to the concept, and there's precedent with the geospatial list.
>
> Bertrand mentions the tech@ list but I don't think anybody knows
> that it's
> there or what it is for. Lists with topic names seem to have better
> discoverability.
>
> Note also that they attract more spam so ensure that you have some
> willing
> moderators.
>
> I think an iot@ list is a great way to attract new participants
> who aren't
> already aware of the various projects and what they do.
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 03:34 Christofer Dutz <
> christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT area.
> A lot of
> > the work I have been doing is to help make all of these work
> together.
> > PLC4X – NiFi Integration
> > PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
> > PLC4X – Camel Integration
> > PLC4X – Edgent Integration
> > Edgent - … integration
> >
> > However sometimes I could for example need some help by NiFi
> Guys to check
> > my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide
> suggestions on how to
> > improve our connector, …
> >
> > There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up to
> date for all
> > the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave no
> time to
> > actually work on things.
> >
> > So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for our
> projects,
> > how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each
> of these
> > categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@community.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@community.apache.org
>
>
>
>
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>
>
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
So how would we create such a list?
Chris
Am 17.12.18, 09:44 schrieb "Christofer Dutz" <ch...@c-ware.de>:
Well I'd be happy to help moderating this. What's "one more list" in the moderation inbox?
Do we have to vote on setting up the "iot@apache.org" list ... if yes ... do we do it here? Or could someone just create it.
Chris
PS: Do we have a web-tool for moderation? Right now all moderators get the same email and I can't see if someone else already accepted or rejected a message ... would be great if there was some "moderation inbox" with accept and reject buttons to quickly moderate all lists someone is listed as moderator for.
Am 16.12.18, 14:53 schrieb "Rich Bowen" <rb...@rcbowen.com>:
+1 to the concept, and there's precedent with the geospatial list.
Bertrand mentions the tech@ list but I don't think anybody knows that it's
there or what it is for. Lists with topic names seem to have better
discoverability.
Note also that they attract more spam so ensure that you have some willing
moderators.
I think an iot@ list is a great way to attract new participants who aren't
already aware of the various projects and what they do.
On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 03:34 Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT area. A lot of
> the work I have been doing is to help make all of these work together.
> PLC4X – NiFi Integration
> PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
> PLC4X – Camel Integration
> PLC4X – Edgent Integration
> Edgent - … integration
>
> However sometimes I could for example need some help by NiFi Guys to check
> my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide suggestions on how to
> improve our connector, …
>
> There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up to date for all
> the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave no time to
> actually work on things.
>
> So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for our projects,
> how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each of these
> categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
> Chris
>
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Christofer Dutz <ch...@c-ware.de>.
Well I'd be happy to help moderating this. What's "one more list" in the moderation inbox?
Do we have to vote on setting up the "iot@apache.org" list ... if yes ... do we do it here? Or could someone just create it.
Chris
PS: Do we have a web-tool for moderation? Right now all moderators get the same email and I can't see if someone else already accepted or rejected a message ... would be great if there was some "moderation inbox" with accept and reject buttons to quickly moderate all lists someone is listed as moderator for.
Am 16.12.18, 14:53 schrieb "Rich Bowen" <rb...@rcbowen.com>:
+1 to the concept, and there's precedent with the geospatial list.
Bertrand mentions the tech@ list but I don't think anybody knows that it's
there or what it is for. Lists with topic names seem to have better
discoverability.
Note also that they attract more spam so ensure that you have some willing
moderators.
I think an iot@ list is a great way to attract new participants who aren't
already aware of the various projects and what they do.
On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 03:34 Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT area. A lot of
> the work I have been doing is to help make all of these work together.
> PLC4X – NiFi Integration
> PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
> PLC4X – Camel Integration
> PLC4X – Edgent Integration
> Edgent - … integration
>
> However sometimes I could for example need some help by NiFi Guys to check
> my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide suggestions on how to
> improve our connector, …
>
> There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up to date for all
> the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave no time to
> actually work on things.
>
> So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for our projects,
> how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each of these
> categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
> Chris
>
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Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Magic Stick <ma...@gmail.com>.
Sounds good Chris that's using the old noodle
On Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 5:53 AM Rich Bowen <rbowen@rcbowen.com wrote:
> +1 to the concept, and there's precedent with the geospatial list.
>
> Bertrand mentions the tech@ list but I don't think anybody knows that it's
> there or what it is for. Lists with topic names seem to have better
> discoverability.
>
> Note also that they attract more spam so ensure that you have some willing
> moderators.
>
> I think an iot@ list is a great way to attract new participants who aren't
> already aware of the various projects and what they do.
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 03:34 Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT area. A lot of
> > the work I have been doing is to help make all of these work together.
> > PLC4X – NiFi Integration
> > PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
> > PLC4X – Camel Integration
> > PLC4X – Edgent Integration
> > Edgent - … integration
> >
> > However sometimes I could for example need some help by NiFi Guys to
> check
> > my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide suggestions on how
> to
> > improve our connector, …
> >
> > There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up to date for
> all
> > the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave no time to
> > actually work on things.
> >
> > So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for our projects,
> > how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each of these
> > categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
> >
> > What do you think?
> >
> >
> > Chris
> >
>
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Rich Bowen <rb...@rcbowen.com>.
+1 to the concept, and there's precedent with the geospatial list.
Bertrand mentions the tech@ list but I don't think anybody knows that it's
there or what it is for. Lists with topic names seem to have better
discoverability.
Note also that they attract more spam so ensure that you have some willing
moderators.
I think an iot@ list is a great way to attract new participants who aren't
already aware of the various projects and what they do.
On Thu, Dec 13, 2018, 03:34 Christofer Dutz <christofer.dutz@c-ware.de
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> at the moment I’m involved in 3 Apache project in the IoT area. A lot of
> the work I have been doing is to help make all of these work together.
> PLC4X – NiFi Integration
> PLC4X – Apache Kafka Connect
> PLC4X – Camel Integration
> PLC4X – Edgent Integration
> Edgent - … integration
>
> However sometimes I could for example need some help by NiFi Guys to check
> my NiFi integration, have Kafka Connect gurus provide suggestions on how to
> improve our connector, …
>
> There’s a lot happening here and signing up and keeping up to date for all
> the dev-lists of all the projects around here would leave no time to
> actually work on things.
>
> So my idea is: As we have a list of general categories for our projects,
> how about creating general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each of these
> categories for the purpose of coordinating such efforts.
>
> What do you think?
>
>
> Chris
>
Re: Introducing lists based on the overall project categories?
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
Hi Chris,
On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 9:34 AM Christofer Dutz
<ch...@c-ware.de> wrote:
> ...As we have a list of general categories for our projects, how about creating
> general “@apache.org” mailinglists for each of these categories for the purpose
> of coordinating such efforts....
I would rather start with a general tech@apache.org list and use
[subject line tags] to identify topics, as OpenStack successfully does
[1]. And if really really needed farm out more specific lists.
I think tech@labs.apache.org [2] was created for this purpose but it
doesn't seem to be active so far, might be worth talking to that
project.
-Bertrand
[1] for example
http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2017-June/thread.html
[2] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?tech@labs.apache.org
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