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Posted to dev@maven.apache.org by Alexander Ashitkin <as...@gmail.com> on 2021/02/22 04:37:33 UTC
Incremental Maven - push the feature
Hi Maven Dev
We would like to resume topic of incremental builds on Maven - https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@maven.apache.org/msg119816.html
We’ve come a long way on Deutsche Bank side and currently few steps away from contribution. At this point Deutsche Bank Open Source council asked for support letter on behalf of the Maven project.
So we are looking for some feedback on this piece from Maven Project – criticality, interest, usefulness, etc.
Positive feedback and confirmation of interest is appreciated even more.
Once approved on our side we plan to push the change in a feature branch. We don’t expect it to be merged to core and rather see it as a proof of concepts to facilitate collaboration and discussions.
We are interested in future improvements and expect to hear feedback and guidance from experts on better design and implementation. From our side we’re ready to invest our time in further improvements. But it will be great to understand some approach to taking it forward.
The feature is stable, it is used in many critical projects internally. It was cross checked, challenged and validated uncountable number of times on all possible levels.
We’re are confident in quality, stability and seeking to advertise it as an experimental feature in Maven. Ideally we would like to see it as an unofficial distribution, but at bare minimum users could build it from the branch by themselves. As it is fully compatible with official distribution we expect that will encourage users to experiment and provide feedback.
The feature was announced on local IT-conference Joker 2020 (https://jokerconf.com/en/) and gained significant interest both from organizers and guests.
The talk is available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caKWl2H-e18 (it is in Russian and hopefully auto translate can give you rough understanding of the feature. We also plan to create English version a bit later)
Please share your thoughts. Looking forward to hear back from you.
Thanks in advance
Alex
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Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Alexander Ashitkin <as...@gmail.com>.
Hi Paul
this is fork which is required to use with mvnw. It is fully compatible with usual maven so no special modifications to project are required except config file.
Thank you
Aleks
On 2021/02/22 10:40:23, Paul Hammant <pa...@hammant.org.INVALID> wrote:
> Sounds great. Quick check - this is a fork of Maven somehow? Or additional
> plugins that are configurable into standard Maven?
>
> I too published something on quicker Maven builds that's lower tech -
> https://paulhammant.com/2021/01/28/dagging-on-maven
>
> - Paul
>
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Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Alexander Ashitkin <as...@gmail.com>.
Hi Paul
this is a fork which is recommended to use with mvnw.
Thank you
Aleks
On 2021/02/22 11:00:44, Falko Modler <f....@gmx.net> wrote:
> This is very interesting and exciting news!
>
> > this is a fork of Maven somehow? Or additional
> > plugins that are configurable into standard Maven?
>
> I second this question.
>
> > I too published something on quicker Maven builds that's lower tech -
> > https://paulhammant.com/2021/01/28/dagging-on-maven
> FWIW, I'm maintaining a Maven extension that only builds modules that
> are impacted by certain changes in git:
> https://github.com/gitflow-incremental-builder/gitflow-incremental-builder
>
> I've been using this in various internal projects and it has saved us
> valuable time.
>
> There is also some WIP integrating it in Quarkus, which has massive 800+
> modules (full CI run takes > 2.5 hours and this already includes
> multiple concurrent jobs).
>
>
> However, what is being proposed here by Alexander goes well beyond that,
> AFAICS, with build cache etc. - very cool!
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Falko
>
>
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Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Falko Modler <f....@gmx.net>.
This is very interesting and exciting news!
> this is a fork of Maven somehow? Or additional
> plugins that are configurable into standard Maven?
I second this question.
> I too published something on quicker Maven builds that's lower tech -
> https://paulhammant.com/2021/01/28/dagging-on-maven
FWIW, I'm maintaining a Maven extension that only builds modules that
are impacted by certain changes in git:
https://github.com/gitflow-incremental-builder/gitflow-incremental-builder
I've been using this in various internal projects and it has saved us
valuable time.
There is also some WIP integrating it in Quarkus, which has massive 800+
modules (full CI run takes > 2.5 hours and this already includes
multiple concurrent jobs).
However, what is being proposed here by Alexander goes well beyond that,
AFAICS, with build cache etc. - very cool!
Cheers,
Falko
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Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Paul Hammant <pa...@hammant.org.INVALID>.
Sounds great. Quick check - this is a fork of Maven somehow? Or additional
plugins that are configurable into standard Maven?
I too published something on quicker Maven builds that's lower tech -
https://paulhammant.com/2021/01/28/dagging-on-maven
- Paul
Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Tibor Digana <ti...@apache.org>.
Hi all,
There are two groups of multi-module projects:
- with many modules
- with one large module
The extension "gitflow-incremental-builder" and the cache are useful in the
first alternative.
But can we provide an incremental Java compiler for the second alternative?
If there is an argument that the Jenkins typically cleans up the workspace
and there is no way to keep the previous *.class files, then my argument is
that the incremental Java compiler (as a base of incremental build) would
be working fine if we had the "cache" on the Jenkins and Maven level too.
But there must be some Maven extension point able to cooperate with the
build systems as e.g. Jenkins. WDYT?
Cheers
Tibor17
On Sat, Feb 27, 2021 at 12:32 PM Maximilian Novikov <
maximilian.novikov@db.com> wrote:
> Dear Maven Dev,
>
> We would like to make a live demo of this feature and we will be happy to
> answer your questions.
> If you are interested to attend please reply directly to me and specify
> your timezone/preferable time.
>
> Kind regards,
> Maximilian Novikov
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexander Ashitkin [mailto:ashitkin.alex@gmail.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:28 AM
> To: dev@maven.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
>
> Hi Michael
> It's really a question of risks, time investments and expected benefits.
> Probably the main factor is how to improve the build without interruptions,
> failed deliveries and without regression in quality and productivity.
> Improving Maven was considered an optimal way at least tactically. So
> again, at least tactically this feature closed gap between maven and gradle
> to such an extent that future build system could be evaluated and planned
> without pressure.
>
> Thank you
> Aleks
>
> On 2021/02/22 10:57:29, Michael Osipov <mi...@apache.org> wrote:
> > Am 2021-02-22 um 05:37 schrieb Alexander Ashitkin:
> > > Hi Maven Dev
> > >
> > > We would like to resume topic of incremental builds on Maven -
> > > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@maven.apache.org/msg119816.html
> > > We’ve come a long way on Deutsche Bank side and currently few steps
> away from contribution. At this point Deutsche Bank Open Source council
> asked for support letter on behalf of the Maven project.
> > > So we are looking for some feedback on this piece from Maven Project –
> criticality, interest, usefulness, etc.
> > >
> > > Positive feedback and confirmation of interest is appreciated even
> more.
> > > Once approved on our side we plan to push the change in a feature
> branch. We don’t expect it to be merged to core and rather see it as a
> proof of concepts to facilitate collaboration and discussions.
> > > We are interested in future improvements and expect to hear feedback
> and guidance from experts on better design and implementation. From our
> side we’re ready to invest our time in further improvements. But it will be
> great to understand some approach to taking it forward.
> > >
> > > The feature is stable, it is used in many critical projects
> internally. It was cross checked, challenged and validated uncountable
> number of times on all possible levels.
> > >
> > > We’re are confident in quality, stability and seeking to advertise it
> as an experimental feature in Maven. Ideally we would like to see it as an
> unofficial distribution, but at bare minimum users could build it from the
> branch by themselves. As it is fully compatible with official distribution
> we expect that will encourage users to experiment and provide feedback.
> > >
> > > The feature was announced on local IT-conference Joker 2020 (
> https://jokerconf.com/en/) and gained significant interest both from
> organizers and guests.
> > >
> > > The talk is available here
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caKWl2H-e18 (it is in Russian and
> > > hopefully auto translate can give you rough understanding of the
> > > feature. We also plan to create English version a bit later)
> >
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I watched the video and the keypoint in the comparison was not
> > explained: Except for the migration effort, why was Gradle not a
> > suitable option? All you said is that the Gradle Extensions for Maven
> > are not suited for now, but that's a different thing.
> >
> > Otherwise the video was quite promising and the approach was
> > adequately expressed in a superficial way which is fine for 12 min.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org For
> > additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
> >
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org For additional
> commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
>
> ---
> This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you
> are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error)
> please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail. Any
> unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this
> e-mail is strictly forbidden.
>
> Please refer to https://www.db.com/disclosures for additional EU
> corporate and regulatory disclosures and to
> http://www.db.com/unitedkingdom/content/privacy.htm for information about
> privacy.
>
RE: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Maximilian Novikov <ma...@db.com>.
Dear Maven Dev,
We would like to make a live demo of this feature and we will be happy to answer your questions.
If you are interested to attend please reply directly to me and specify your timezone/preferable time.
Kind regards,
Maximilian Novikov
-----Original Message-----
From: Alexander Ashitkin [mailto:ashitkin.alex@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:28 AM
To: dev@maven.apache.org
Subject: Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Hi Michael
It's really a question of risks, time investments and expected benefits. Probably the main factor is how to improve the build without interruptions, failed deliveries and without regression in quality and productivity. Improving Maven was considered an optimal way at least tactically. So again, at least tactically this feature closed gap between maven and gradle to such an extent that future build system could be evaluated and planned without pressure.
Thank you
Aleks
On 2021/02/22 10:57:29, Michael Osipov <mi...@apache.org> wrote:
> Am 2021-02-22 um 05:37 schrieb Alexander Ashitkin:
> > Hi Maven Dev
> >
> > We would like to resume topic of incremental builds on Maven -
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@maven.apache.org/msg119816.html
> > We’ve come a long way on Deutsche Bank side and currently few steps away from contribution. At this point Deutsche Bank Open Source council asked for support letter on behalf of the Maven project.
> > So we are looking for some feedback on this piece from Maven Project – criticality, interest, usefulness, etc.
> >
> > Positive feedback and confirmation of interest is appreciated even more.
> > Once approved on our side we plan to push the change in a feature branch. We don’t expect it to be merged to core and rather see it as a proof of concepts to facilitate collaboration and discussions.
> > We are interested in future improvements and expect to hear feedback and guidance from experts on better design and implementation. From our side we’re ready to invest our time in further improvements. But it will be great to understand some approach to taking it forward.
> >
> > The feature is stable, it is used in many critical projects internally. It was cross checked, challenged and validated uncountable number of times on all possible levels.
> >
> > We’re are confident in quality, stability and seeking to advertise it as an experimental feature in Maven. Ideally we would like to see it as an unofficial distribution, but at bare minimum users could build it from the branch by themselves. As it is fully compatible with official distribution we expect that will encourage users to experiment and provide feedback.
> >
> > The feature was announced on local IT-conference Joker 2020 (https://jokerconf.com/en/) and gained significant interest both from organizers and guests.
> >
> > The talk is available here
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caKWl2H-e18 (it is in Russian and
> > hopefully auto translate can give you rough understanding of the
> > feature. We also plan to create English version a bit later)
>
> Hi there,
>
> I watched the video and the keypoint in the comparison was not
> explained: Except for the migration effort, why was Gradle not a
> suitable option? All you said is that the Gradle Extensions for Maven
> are not suited for now, but that's a different thing.
>
> Otherwise the video was quite promising and the approach was
> adequately expressed in a superficial way which is fine for 12 min.
>
> Michael
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org For
> additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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---
This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient (or have received this e-mail in error) please notify the sender immediately and delete this e-mail. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or distribution of the material in this e-mail is strictly forbidden.
Please refer to https://www.db.com/disclosures for additional EU corporate and regulatory disclosures and to http://www.db.com/unitedkingdom/content/privacy.htm for information about privacy.
Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Alexander Ashitkin <as...@gmail.com>.
Hi Michael
It's really a question of risks, time investments and expected benefits. Probably the main factor is how to improve the build without interruptions, failed deliveries and without regression in quality and productivity. Improving Maven was considered an optimal way at least tactically. So again, at least tactically this feature closed gap between maven and gradle to such an extent that future build system could be evaluated and planned without pressure.
Thank you
Aleks
On 2021/02/22 10:57:29, Michael Osipov <mi...@apache.org> wrote:
> Am 2021-02-22 um 05:37 schrieb Alexander Ashitkin:
> > Hi Maven Dev
> >
> > We would like to resume topic of incremental builds on Maven - https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@maven.apache.org/msg119816.html
> > We’ve come a long way on Deutsche Bank side and currently few steps away from contribution. At this point Deutsche Bank Open Source council asked for support letter on behalf of the Maven project.
> > So we are looking for some feedback on this piece from Maven Project – criticality, interest, usefulness, etc.
> >
> > Positive feedback and confirmation of interest is appreciated even more.
> > Once approved on our side we plan to push the change in a feature branch. We don’t expect it to be merged to core and rather see it as a proof of concepts to facilitate collaboration and discussions.
> > We are interested in future improvements and expect to hear feedback and guidance from experts on better design and implementation. From our side we’re ready to invest our time in further improvements. But it will be great to understand some approach to taking it forward.
> >
> > The feature is stable, it is used in many critical projects internally. It was cross checked, challenged and validated uncountable number of times on all possible levels.
> >
> > We’re are confident in quality, stability and seeking to advertise it as an experimental feature in Maven. Ideally we would like to see it as an unofficial distribution, but at bare minimum users could build it from the branch by themselves. As it is fully compatible with official distribution we expect that will encourage users to experiment and provide feedback.
> >
> > The feature was announced on local IT-conference Joker 2020 (https://jokerconf.com/en/) and gained significant interest both from organizers and guests.
> >
> > The talk is available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caKWl2H-e18 (it is in Russian and hopefully auto translate can give you rough understanding of the feature. We also plan to create English version a bit later)
>
> Hi there,
>
> I watched the video and the keypoint in the comparison was not
> explained: Except for the migration effort, why was Gradle not a
> suitable option? All you said is that the Gradle Extensions for Maven
> are not suited for now, but that's a different thing.
>
> Otherwise the video was quite promising and the approach was adequately
> expressed in a superficial way which is fine for 12 min.
>
> Michael
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscribe@maven.apache.org
For additional commands, e-mail: dev-help@maven.apache.org
Re: Incremental Maven - push the feature
Posted by Michael Osipov <mi...@apache.org>.
Am 2021-02-22 um 05:37 schrieb Alexander Ashitkin:
> Hi Maven Dev
>
> We would like to resume topic of incremental builds on Maven - https://www.mail-archive.com/dev@maven.apache.org/msg119816.html
> We’ve come a long way on Deutsche Bank side and currently few steps away from contribution. At this point Deutsche Bank Open Source council asked for support letter on behalf of the Maven project.
> So we are looking for some feedback on this piece from Maven Project – criticality, interest, usefulness, etc.
>
> Positive feedback and confirmation of interest is appreciated even more.
> Once approved on our side we plan to push the change in a feature branch. We don’t expect it to be merged to core and rather see it as a proof of concepts to facilitate collaboration and discussions.
> We are interested in future improvements and expect to hear feedback and guidance from experts on better design and implementation. From our side we’re ready to invest our time in further improvements. But it will be great to understand some approach to taking it forward.
>
> The feature is stable, it is used in many critical projects internally. It was cross checked, challenged and validated uncountable number of times on all possible levels.
>
> We’re are confident in quality, stability and seeking to advertise it as an experimental feature in Maven. Ideally we would like to see it as an unofficial distribution, but at bare minimum users could build it from the branch by themselves. As it is fully compatible with official distribution we expect that will encourage users to experiment and provide feedback.
>
> The feature was announced on local IT-conference Joker 2020 (https://jokerconf.com/en/) and gained significant interest both from organizers and guests.
>
> The talk is available here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caKWl2H-e18 (it is in Russian and hopefully auto translate can give you rough understanding of the feature. We also plan to create English version a bit later)
Hi there,
I watched the video and the keypoint in the comparison was not
explained: Except for the migration effort, why was Gradle not a
suitable option? All you said is that the Gradle Extensions for Maven
are not suited for now, but that's a different thing.
Otherwise the video was quite promising and the approach was adequately
expressed in a superficial way which is fine for 12 min.
Michael
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