[Proposal] CXF weekly IRC chat

["Liu, Jervis" <jl...@iona.com>]

Hi all, 

As our CXF release is finally out of door (well, almost :-)), move forward to the next milestone, I would like to suggest a CXF weekly IRC chat. A weekly chat could help to grow the community and get more developers involved. While several community members already hang out at the IRC it always remains to be seen who is there at a given point in time. It will make our community stay focused and being more efficient by making decisions and discussing major issues when everybody is around. Also for these new developers, a weekly chat would make it easier to understand the status of CXF development and what tasks are most appropriate for them to start with. 

It is very very hard to find a time good for all, as a compromise I suggest we initially hold this weekly chat on Monday 10pm Beijing Time, 2pm GMT, 9am EST, up to one hour. Does this sound good to everyone? 

Any thoughts and comments?

Thanks,
Jervis

Re: [Proposal] CXF weekly IRC chat

[Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>]

On Dec 5, 2006, at 8:43 AM, Daniel Kulp wrote:

>
> I have no problem with an IRC chat as long as we're careful with  
> how we use
> it.   However, one sentence above is a concern:
> "It will make our community stay focused and being more efficient  
> by making
> decisions..."
> ...
> We CANNOT make decisions on IRC.
> Personally, if we limit the chats to status type things, a time to ask
> questions from others (which we could then put on the wiki if they  
> seem to be
> FAQ type things), etc..., then I'm OK with it.    However, if we start
> finalizing designs and settling on features and such, then that  
> would be bad
> as that stuff NEEDS to be on the email list.
>

IRC is exclusionary. Unless you happen to be on at
that time (and, as mentioned, it's darn near impossible
to find a time where everyone can attend), you run the
risk of not only excluding and alienating people, but
doing so consistently. That is NOT a way to build
a community.

The other trouble is that it becomes *way* too easy for
IRC to *become* the way development happens, and you
start seeing emails like "Hey, we decided on the
IRC channel that we should do this" and:

    1. The history/archive of *how* that decision was
       made is lost (since it's IRC). Yeah, as Dan says
       you can log the discussion... but sometimes (more
       often than not), this isn't done.
    2. Decisions are not being made on the mailing
       list, rather *confirmations of decisions* are.
       This is a very different thing.
    3. It places the decision making process in
       the hands of those who are "lucky" enough to
       be on IRC at the time.

IRC can be used, carefully, with well-established communities,
especially those that know the dangers and go to the
lengths required to avoid them...

I would tread very, very very carefully here.

Re: [Proposal] CXF weekly IRC chat

[Daniel Kulp <da...@iona.com>]

Jervis,

On Tuesday 05 December 2006 01:18, Liu, Jervis wrote:
> As our CXF release is finally out of door (well, almost :-)), move forward
> to the next milestone, I would like to suggest a CXF weekly IRC chat. A
> weekly chat could help to grow the community and get more developers
> involved. While several community members already hang out at the IRC it
> always remains to be seen who is there at a given point in time. It will
> make our community stay focused and being more efficient by making
> decisions and discussing major issues when everybody is around. Also for
> these new developers, a weekly chat would make it easier to understand the
> status of CXF development and what tasks are most appropriate for them to
> start with.

I have no problem with an IRC chat as long as we're careful with how we use 
it.   However, one sentence above is a concern:
"It will make our community stay focused and being more efficient by making
decisions..."

We CANNOT make decisions on IRC.   That is NOT allowed at apache.   All 
decisions must be on the email list.  We can have discussions and stuff on 
IRC, but we need to make sure we use the IRC discussions as just starting 
points for email discussions as well.     For example: if we start discussing 
a particular topic on IRC, we would then start a thread in the email list 
with a summary of the discussion (include the log, but also make sure there 
is a nice summary of the major points).

> It is very very hard to find a time good for all, as a compromise I suggest
> we initially hold this weekly chat on Monday 10pm Beijing Time, 2pm GMT,
> 9am EST, up to one hour. Does this sound good to everyone?

I'm OK with that time.  

>
> Any thoughts and comments?

Personally, if we limit the chats to status type things, a time to ask 
questions from others (which we could then put on the wiki if they seem to be 
FAQ type things), etc..., then I'm OK with it.    However, if we start 
finalizing designs and settling on features and such, then that would be bad 
as that stuff NEEDS to be on the email list.


-- 
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer
IONA
P: 781-902-8727    C: 508-380-7194
daniel.kulp@iona.com