Getting involved (was Re: Topics for discussion?)

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

Julie Bovee Hill wrote:
> On 8/28/05, Danese Cooper wrote:

...

>>"What would you like to get out of participation on this list?"
> 
> 
> * learn more about Apache
> * learn how to participate in a project
> * learn lots of kewl new things from other contributors
> 
> The tough part, at least from my point of view, is how to get started.
> Specifically for Apache, what's the most common path taken? Does it
> vary substantially among the various projects and persons involved?

I recently wrote a mail for our project on just this subject. As a 
result of the discussion one of our new arrivals took the time to turn 
it into a draft document for our website.

Different projects do vary their approach a little, but this document is 
general enough to serve as a good starting point. You will find all 
projects work in the same way as descirbed in that document. See 
http://forrest.apache.org/committed.html

If anyone has any comments on this document I will be sure to 
incorporate them (better still provide a patch, but you may not know how 
yet, so discussion is a good start).

> Perhaps some of you who are more experienced could give a brief
> discussion on how you first became involved. Did you submit a patch,
> did a friend or co-worker bring you in, did you lurk around on mailing
> lists until an opportunity arose? (I could probably ask a thousand
> more questions, thanks for your patience :-)

My story:

I lurked for a long time on various Open Source lists. I felt everyone 
there knew far more than I did and I recognised that by reading the 
archives I was learning and absorbing much information.

I used this informaiton in my work, both through the use of the Open 
Source software (here hat Apache it was Cocoon), and through the use of 
more general lessons about coding, documenting and, perhaps suprisingly, 
project management.

One day a user posted a question I knew the answer to. So I responded, 
my first post to an Apache list. The use thanked me and I felt very 
proud, I'd managed to give something back.

My posts to the user list increased, but I still felt I could not help 
with the coding, I simply wasn't "good enough".

Around this time I got involved with the Krysalis Community Project. 
This was intended to be kind of unofficial Apache Incubator (this was 
prior to the start of the real Apache Incubator and is no longer 
active). Because this was a smaller community I felt more confident 
speaking up on their lists. I did so and soon found I was contributing 
documentation and code to one of their projects. As a result I was given 
committership.

At this time the Apache Forrest project was starting, this was a 
specific applicaiton of Forrest that I felt I could contribute to. 
Again, it was a smaller community, more tightly focussed on things I 
knew about as part of my normal work. Before long I was documenting and 
contributing code there as well.

In summary:

- smaller communities are less "scary" - but once you jump in the big 
communities are just as welcoming

- helping users gives a gentle introduction to community discussion

- writing docs gets you noticed

- writing docs is very important (and gets you noticed) - repeated 
because this is by far the *easiest* way into Open Source Development 
and is very much appreciated because we don't have enough people who do
this

- code is important, but the health of the community is more important

> As for methods, I admit that I'm a lurker on Debian-women. I lurk
> because I'm not currently a Debian user so I don't have a good way to
> contribute. In spite of not participating, I think I've learned a lot
> from them; and they've done some very interesting things, including
> holding day-long bug-fixing events, giving tutorials via irc, and
> matching newbies up with mentors. These techniques may or may not work
> at Apache, but maybe their merits are worth discussing at some point.
> <snip>

Yes, I would like to hear more about these approaches. At Apache Forrest 
we have our first "Forrest Tuesday" on Sept 6th 
(http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html ) and have been 
experimenting with the "mentor" approach as a result of the recent 
Google Summer of Code initiative. These are experiments at present, 
lessons learnt from your lurking on Debian lists may help us avoid some 
mistakes.

Ross

Re: Getting involved (was Re: Topics for discussion?)

[Shane Curcuru <as...@shanecurcuru.org>]

Thanks Julie!  Personally, I love it when folks come in and answer those 
4 or 5 nagging user questions that are just about to fall off the 
attention span of the list.  (In the past, that was me, mostly because 
I'm a QE person in my dark past and I couldn't stand unanswered questions).

Answer a few more questions if you have time - it really helps.  Heck, 
ask a question too!

(was that a good pep talk? 8-)

Sorry - sometimes I've been doing this sooooo long I forget what it's 
like when you're first breaking in, so I hope I'm providing useful 
advice.  And I feel quite lost myself these days with how large the ASF 
has grown.

- Shane
who started with the creation of xml.apache.org

Julie Bovee Hill wrote:
>  I
> took your advice to heart yesterday, and managed to answer a whopping
> 4 questions on a forum I watch. Whoopee :-) Still, I took a
> conservative approach and stuck to questions that others were letting
> slip through without an answer. I suppose I'll get more courageous as
> time goes by.

Re: Getting involved (was Re: Topics for discussion?)

[Kathey Marsden <km...@sbcglobal.net>]

For Derby  I did a brief  write up a while ago on how to get started. 
It lives in DERY-257 right now.

http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-257

In general there are always lots of low risk, high value tasks to be
done especially in the quality area, and they are all great ways to
learn and add value.  All can be sized to suit your time requirements,
for example.

Write Tests for an Upcoming Feature
Test the Documentation
Answer User Questions
Add Functional Tests
Apply, Test and Review Patches
Cleanup and Expand Javadoc

Many of the specific bug recommendations are out of date, but  I hope it
is otherwise helpful and someone who finds it to be will pick up DERBY-257.


Kathey

Re: Getting involved (was Re: Topics for discussion?)

[Ross Gardler <rg...@apache.org>]

Julie Bovee Hill wrote:

> I
> took your advice to heart yesterday, and managed to answer a whopping
> 4 questions on a forum I watch. Whoopee :-) 

:-))

It was painles too, I'll bet ;-)

Congratulations, you just made a very valuable contibution to that forum 
and it is now a healthier place.

> It's funny, at work I have absolutely no qualms about speaking up,
> whether right or wrong, but when faced with an open source group where
> there aren't any familiar faces, I tend to go the polite route and
> quietly wait around. I've been thinking about that, and when I was a
> child and my mom drilled into my head to wait to be invited (to go out
> and play, etc.). "Don't invite yourself", she always said. That early
> training probably has something to do with my reluctance to just jump
> in and start helping with something, silly though it may be. 

I see your point, how about thinking of an open question to a list being 
an open invitation to everyone to speak (actually that is exactly what 
it is).

Ross

Re: Getting involved (was Re: Topics for discussion?)

[Julie Bovee Hill <jo...@gmail.com>]

Hi Ross,

Thanks, this is really helpful!

On 8/30/05, Ross Gardler wrote:
> I recently wrote a mail for our project on just this subject. As a
> result of the discussion one of our new arrivals took the time to turn
> it into a draft document for our website.
> 
> Different projects do vary their approach a little, but this document is
> general enough to serve as a good starting point. You will find all
> projects work in the same way as descirbed in that document. See
> http://forrest.apache.org/committed.html

Nicely written doc, thanks.

<snip>
> 
> My story:
> 
> I lurked for a long time on various Open Source lists. I felt everyone
> there knew far more than I did and I recognised that by reading the
> archives I was learning and absorbing much information.

I know the feeling.

> 
> I used this informaiton in my work, both through the use of the Open
> Source software (here hat Apache it was Cocoon), and through the use of
> more general lessons about coding, documenting and, perhaps suprisingly,
> project management.
> 
> One day a user posted a question I knew the answer to. So I responded,
> my first post to an Apache list. The use thanked me and I felt very
> proud, I'd managed to give something back.

I tend to assume that even though I know the answer, others probably
can answer it better than I can, so I sit back and politely wait. I
took your advice to heart yesterday, and managed to answer a whopping
4 questions on a forum I watch. Whoopee :-) Still, I took a
conservative approach and stuck to questions that others were letting
slip through without an answer. I suppose I'll get more courageous as
time goes by.

It's funny, at work I have absolutely no qualms about speaking up,
whether right or wrong, but when faced with an open source group where
there aren't any familiar faces, I tend to go the polite route and
quietly wait around. I've been thinking about that, and when I was a
child and my mom drilled into my head to wait to be invited (to go out
and play, etc.). "Don't invite yourself", she always said. That early
training probably has something to do with my reluctance to just jump
in and start helping with something, silly though it may be. Now I'm
wondering if that's a common experience among women, or was I just
unusually warped by my parents? and I also wonder how much that could
be a generational thing and maybe younger women are less likely to
have experienced it?

<snip>
> Yes, I would like to hear more about these approaches. At Apache Forrest
> we have our first "Forrest Tuesday" on Sept 6th
> (http://forrest.apache.org/forrest-tuesday.html ) and have been
> experimenting with the "mentor" approach as a result of the recent
> Google Summer of Code initiative. These are experiments at present,
> lessons learnt from your lurking on Debian lists may help us avoid some
> mistakes.

"Forrest Tuesday" sounds like a great idea, I hope it's successful.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Julie