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Posted to bridges-user@portals.apache.org by Mark McLaren <ma...@gmail.com> on 2008/06/04 10:11:07 UTC
How about a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war? (and my concerns for the future)
Hi all,
How about creating a struts-blank-bridges-portlet Maven archetype? I
think we need to be able to demonstrate how easy and quick portlets
can be to write!
I'm a big fan of the Struts Bridge and was very pleased to see the
recent release in December 07. What concerns me is that the noisier
portlet developers who write Spring Portlet MVC or Struts 2 portlets
(etc.) seem to be getting most of the attention when it comes to the
beginners question "How do I write a portlet?".
Personally (as a Struts 1.x developer), I see Struts Bridge as the
most natural way to create a portlet as it can be developed and run
standalone. I am at a loss as to why more people are not using Struts
Bridge (could it be the documentation or lack of examples?). I am
concerned for the long term future of the Struts Bridge product as the
alternatives seem to be grabbing the majority of the market share.
Mark
--
"Paradoxically, the more time saving abstractions you are using the
more you actually have to know." - Simon Willison
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Re: How about a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war? (and my concerns for the future)
Posted by Mark McLaren <ma...@gmail.com>.
On Wed, Jun 18, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
> Mark McLaren wrote:
>> Hardly a showcase but my own modest Struts bridge based portlet
>> contributions are a bookmarks and a newsfeeds portlet, available from:
>>
>> <http://bmarks-portlet.sourceforge.net/>
>
> That definitely *looks* cool (I haven't had time to try it or look at the
> code).
> I don't see the license mentioned on the project summary page though.
> Would this be ASF compatible?
Licensing isn't really my area of expertise. I am happy for people to
use and abuse my applications for whatever purpose as long as I have
no blame for anything! I am utilizing several other open source
libraries whose licenses I am not qualified to speak for.
Mark
--
"Paradoxically, the more time saving abstractions you are using the
more you actually have to know." - Simon Willison
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Re: How about a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war? (and my concerns
for the future)
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Mark McLaren wrote:
> Thanks Ate,
>
> I am delighted to hear that the portal bridge project is still very
> much alive and that further innovations for transparent portlet
> development are in the pipeline. The SpringMVC bridge project sounds
> particularly promising.
>
> I really appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years.
> I completely understand your "call to arms" and I would love to help
> if I can.
>
> Hardly a showcase but my own modest Struts bridge based portlet
> contributions are a bookmarks and a newsfeeds portlet, available from:
>
> <http://bmarks-portlet.sourceforge.net/>
That definitely *looks* cool (I haven't had time to try it or look at the code).
I don't see the license mentioned on the project summary page though.
Would this be ASF compatible?
>
> Also, a long time ago (Nov' 2005), I wrote some introductory Struts
> Bridge documentation on the JA-SIG uPortal wiki (it might be a little
> dated now). This documentation, such as it is, still ranks quite
> highly on Google for "Struts bridge".
>
> <http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/PLT/Struts+Bridge>
Thanks, nice (and short) description of the required steps!
>
> As far as, further contributions goes:
>
> I'd be happy to contribute a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war - I have
> something basic working already.
>
> As for extensions, for my portlets I created a portlet aware version
> of the JSTL XML tag library (derived from a similar uPortal
> contribution). The XSL would include <portlet:renderUrl> tags to
> designate internal application links to be generated by the XSL.
> (useful if you are not using Struts' html:link all the time). If you
> are interested I can put together a simple example application.
>
> My experience with uPortal community is that their Wiki provides a
> great means to accelerate community documentation and signpost
> community developments. I notice there is a Apache Portals wiki but I
> could not find much there for the Portals Bridges project - would this
> be the best place to post future community documentation/tutorial
> material etc
?.
Yeah, I know the Portals Wiki isn't exactly "inviting" nor very interesting at the moment.
The technical part (and very much part of the cause imo) is something under discussion (moving to Confluence, upgrading
to a much newer version of MoinMoin but we're lacking the resources and experience for that to honest).
For the time being though, I'd suggest to use the current Wiki as that's the quickest route right now.
And if/when we move/upgrade to something better, existing content will be moved over too of course.
Thanks,
Ate
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Mark
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
>> Hi Mark,
>>
>> Thanks a lot for the heads up :)
>>
>> I fully agree with you and think the Struts Bridge isn't getting enough
>> attention.
>> As the primary creator of it, I'm probably to blame most for that, certainly
>> with regards to the (lack of) documentation and providing proper
>> "visibility".
>>
>> I did write quite a few high end business (portlet) applications myself
>> using it and supported several development teams using it too in the past
>> but haven't had much time nor opportunity anymore the last few years.
>>
>> Other projects, frameworks (Wicket, SpringMVC etc.) and a new job (at Hippo)
>> have taken my focus and responsibilities mostly elsewhere.
>> I (and a few others) still do support the Struts Bridge though and I think
>> it has a lot of benefits over solutions like Struts 2 or Spring Portlet MVC
>> which require you to write explicitly against the Portlet API and won't work
>> within a "plain" web container.
>>
>> That is also one of the primary reasons I wrote the Wicket Portlet support
>> in a "transparent" way too: like with the Struts Bridge, you can write
>> Wicket Portlet applications which work just as well "standalone" in a web
>> container.
>>
>> FYI: I know a similar solution is currently under development by a fellow
>> Portals committer for SpringMVC (in contrast to Spring Portlet MVC), based
>> upon/following the Struts Bridge solution, which *might* be contributed back
>> here at Portal Bridges in the future too...
>>
>> Anyway, concerning your worries about the future: it really depends on the
>> community (so: including yourself).
>>
>> Apache projects are not and will not live and survive on single individual
>> efforts only: it really is the community which must keep a project alive. I
>> myself will continue to help out as much as I can, but that by itself is
>> never going to be enough.
>>
>> If you (the community) need better documentation, new/improved features,
>> examples, a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war, better "marketing" etc.,
>> you'll need to help out *yourself*:
>> - contribute documentation
>> - contribute fixes/improvements
>> - contribute *useful* showcase examples
>> - write/publish articles how *you* are using the Struts Bridge
>> - blog
>> - etc.
>>
>> If the community is willing to spread the word, others will take notice,
>> join the community, and start doing the same.
>> That's what it is all about: no less, no more.
>>
>> If you look back through this mailing list archive, you'll see very little
>> community involvement...
>> Really, really too bad, as I honestly think (and have knowledge) that a lot
>> of people actually *are* using the bridge.
>> But, if nobody is willing to provide feedback, help out and *acknowledge* it
>> (for whatever reason: company policy, shyness, ignorance, or worse:
>> indifference), nothing much is going to happen.
>>
>> (As a side note: very "funny" to see that my Struts Bridge examples, the
>> JPetstorePortlet and even the very outdated MailReader demo together blow
>> away the download numbers of all the other "examples" provided at JBoss
>> Portlet Swap,
>> see: http://www.jboss.org/portletswap/downloads/portlets/framework
>> Also note: I never ever once got a single feedback from either a Struts
>> committer or the JBoss Portal team about the
>> Struts Bridge or these examples...)
>>
>> Well, sorry if I come across a little bit disappointed, but I really would
>> like to see the Struts Bridge community (and for that matter: the whole of
>> the Portal Bridges community) to be more interactive.
>>
>> So, if you want to make the Struts Bridge more future "proof", start helping
>> out today!
>>
>> As you say, you're a big fan (great!) and have been using the Struts Bridge
>> yourself successfully.
>> Surely, you've extended it with some features which might be of interest to
>> others too, written some documentation or instructions for your fellow
>> developers, maybe even written some kind of manual (or maybe someone else
>> lurking on this list has?).
>>
>> Please contribute and help out, send in feature request, create JIRA issues
>> for them:
>> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PB
>> Provide fixes, code, examples, patches, whatever.
>>
>> I'll be glad to help out to integrate them, improve the website, provide
>> pointers to external articles, blogs, anything.
>> But you'll need to help me out, I simply cannot and will not do that on my
>> own.
>>
>> I hope this long "rant" doesn't scare you or others away, I just want to be
>> honest: the Struts Bridge has a lot potential, even with Struts 2.x around,
>> because so many developers and companies still are and very much continue to
>> use Struts 1.x. I can easily think of at least 20 new features and
>> improvements for the Struts Bridge to make it even much better, but I don't
>> have the time nor interest to design and develop them all by myself anymore.
>>
>> With kind regards and hoping for a lot more community interaction,
>>
>> Ate
>>
>> Mark McLaren wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> How about creating a struts-blank-bridges-portlet Maven archetype? I
>>> think we need to be able to demonstrate how easy and quick portlets
>>> can be to write!
>>>
>>> I'm a big fan of the Struts Bridge and was very pleased to see the
>>> recent release in December 07. What concerns me is that the noisier
>>> portlet developers who write Spring Portlet MVC or Struts 2 portlets
>>> (etc.) seem to be getting most of the attention when it comes to the
>>> beginners question "How do I write a portlet?".
>>>
>>> Personally (as a Struts 1.x developer), I see Struts Bridge as the
>>> most natural way to create a portlet as it can be developed and run
>>> standalone. I am at a loss as to why more people are not using Struts
>>> Bridge (could it be the documentation or lack of examples?). I am
>>> concerned for the long term future of the Struts Bridge product as the
>>> alternatives seem to be grabbing the majority of the market share.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: bridges-user-unsubscribe@portals.apache.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: bridges-user-help@portals.apache.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: How about a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war? (and my concerns for the future)
Posted by Mark McLaren <ma...@gmail.com>.
Thanks Ate,
I am delighted to hear that the portal bridge project is still very
much alive and that further innovations for transparent portlet
development are in the pipeline. The SpringMVC bridge project sounds
particularly promising.
I really appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years.
I completely understand your "call to arms" and I would love to help
if I can.
Hardly a showcase but my own modest Struts bridge based portlet
contributions are a bookmarks and a newsfeeds portlet, available from:
<http://bmarks-portlet.sourceforge.net/>
Also, a long time ago (Nov' 2005), I wrote some introductory Struts
Bridge documentation on the JA-SIG uPortal wiki (it might be a little
dated now). This documentation, such as it is, still ranks quite
highly on Google for "Struts bridge".
<http://www.ja-sig.org/wiki/display/PLT/Struts+Bridge>
As far as, further contributions goes:
I'd be happy to contribute a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war - I have
something basic working already.
As for extensions, for my portlets I created a portlet aware version
of the JSTL XML tag library (derived from a similar uPortal
contribution). The XSL would include <portlet:renderUrl> tags to
designate internal application links to be generated by the XSL.
(useful if you are not using Struts' html:link all the time). If you
are interested I can put together a simple example application.
My experience with uPortal community is that their Wiki provides a
great means to accelerate community documentation and signpost
community developments. I notice there is a Apache Portals wiki but I
could not find much there for the Portals Bridges project - would this
be the best place to post future community documentation/tutorial
material etc?.
Best wishes,
Mark
On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 12:28 AM, Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu> wrote:
> Hi Mark,
>
> Thanks a lot for the heads up :)
>
> I fully agree with you and think the Struts Bridge isn't getting enough
> attention.
> As the primary creator of it, I'm probably to blame most for that, certainly
> with regards to the (lack of) documentation and providing proper
> "visibility".
>
> I did write quite a few high end business (portlet) applications myself
> using it and supported several development teams using it too in the past
> but haven't had much time nor opportunity anymore the last few years.
>
> Other projects, frameworks (Wicket, SpringMVC etc.) and a new job (at Hippo)
> have taken my focus and responsibilities mostly elsewhere.
> I (and a few others) still do support the Struts Bridge though and I think
> it has a lot of benefits over solutions like Struts 2 or Spring Portlet MVC
> which require you to write explicitly against the Portlet API and won't work
> within a "plain" web container.
>
> That is also one of the primary reasons I wrote the Wicket Portlet support
> in a "transparent" way too: like with the Struts Bridge, you can write
> Wicket Portlet applications which work just as well "standalone" in a web
> container.
>
> FYI: I know a similar solution is currently under development by a fellow
> Portals committer for SpringMVC (in contrast to Spring Portlet MVC), based
> upon/following the Struts Bridge solution, which *might* be contributed back
> here at Portal Bridges in the future too...
>
> Anyway, concerning your worries about the future: it really depends on the
> community (so: including yourself).
>
> Apache projects are not and will not live and survive on single individual
> efforts only: it really is the community which must keep a project alive. I
> myself will continue to help out as much as I can, but that by itself is
> never going to be enough.
>
> If you (the community) need better documentation, new/improved features,
> examples, a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war, better "marketing" etc.,
> you'll need to help out *yourself*:
> - contribute documentation
> - contribute fixes/improvements
> - contribute *useful* showcase examples
> - write/publish articles how *you* are using the Struts Bridge
> - blog
> - etc.
>
> If the community is willing to spread the word, others will take notice,
> join the community, and start doing the same.
> That's what it is all about: no less, no more.
>
> If you look back through this mailing list archive, you'll see very little
> community involvement...
> Really, really too bad, as I honestly think (and have knowledge) that a lot
> of people actually *are* using the bridge.
> But, if nobody is willing to provide feedback, help out and *acknowledge* it
> (for whatever reason: company policy, shyness, ignorance, or worse:
> indifference), nothing much is going to happen.
>
> (As a side note: very "funny" to see that my Struts Bridge examples, the
> JPetstorePortlet and even the very outdated MailReader demo together blow
> away the download numbers of all the other "examples" provided at JBoss
> Portlet Swap,
> see: http://www.jboss.org/portletswap/downloads/portlets/framework
> Also note: I never ever once got a single feedback from either a Struts
> committer or the JBoss Portal team about the
> Struts Bridge or these examples...)
>
> Well, sorry if I come across a little bit disappointed, but I really would
> like to see the Struts Bridge community (and for that matter: the whole of
> the Portal Bridges community) to be more interactive.
>
> So, if you want to make the Struts Bridge more future "proof", start helping
> out today!
>
> As you say, you're a big fan (great!) and have been using the Struts Bridge
> yourself successfully.
> Surely, you've extended it with some features which might be of interest to
> others too, written some documentation or instructions for your fellow
> developers, maybe even written some kind of manual (or maybe someone else
> lurking on this list has?).
>
> Please contribute and help out, send in feature request, create JIRA issues
> for them:
> http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PB
> Provide fixes, code, examples, patches, whatever.
>
> I'll be glad to help out to integrate them, improve the website, provide
> pointers to external articles, blogs, anything.
> But you'll need to help me out, I simply cannot and will not do that on my
> own.
>
> I hope this long "rant" doesn't scare you or others away, I just want to be
> honest: the Struts Bridge has a lot potential, even with Struts 2.x around,
> because so many developers and companies still are and very much continue to
> use Struts 1.x. I can easily think of at least 20 new features and
> improvements for the Struts Bridge to make it even much better, but I don't
> have the time nor interest to design and develop them all by myself anymore.
>
> With kind regards and hoping for a lot more community interaction,
>
> Ate
>
> Mark McLaren wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> How about creating a struts-blank-bridges-portlet Maven archetype? I
>> think we need to be able to demonstrate how easy and quick portlets
>> can be to write!
>>
>> I'm a big fan of the Struts Bridge and was very pleased to see the
>> recent release in December 07. What concerns me is that the noisier
>> portlet developers who write Spring Portlet MVC or Struts 2 portlets
>> (etc.) seem to be getting most of the attention when it comes to the
>> beginners question "How do I write a portlet?".
>>
>> Personally (as a Struts 1.x developer), I see Struts Bridge as the
>> most natural way to create a portlet as it can be developed and run
>> standalone. I am at a loss as to why more people are not using Struts
>> Bridge (could it be the documentation or lack of examples?). I am
>> concerned for the long term future of the Struts Bridge product as the
>> alternatives seem to be grabbing the majority of the market share.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: bridges-user-unsubscribe@portals.apache.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: bridges-user-help@portals.apache.org
>
>
--
"Paradoxically, the more time saving abstractions you are using the
more you actually have to know." - Simon Willison
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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For additional commands, e-mail: bridges-user-help@portals.apache.org
Re: How about a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war? (and my concerns
for the future)
Posted by Ate Douma <at...@douma.nu>.
Hi Mark,
Thanks a lot for the heads up :)
I fully agree with you and think the Struts Bridge isn't getting enough attention.
As the primary creator of it, I'm probably to blame most for that, certainly with regards to the (lack of) documentation
and providing proper "visibility".
I did write quite a few high end business (portlet) applications myself using it and supported several development teams
using it too in the past but haven't had much time nor opportunity anymore the last few years.
Other projects, frameworks (Wicket, SpringMVC etc.) and a new job (at Hippo) have taken my focus and responsibilities
mostly elsewhere.
I (and a few others) still do support the Struts Bridge though and I think it has a lot of benefits over solutions like
Struts 2 or Spring Portlet MVC which require you to write explicitly against the Portlet API and won't work within a
"plain" web container.
That is also one of the primary reasons I wrote the Wicket Portlet support in a "transparent" way too: like with the
Struts Bridge, you can write Wicket Portlet applications which work just as well "standalone" in a web container.
FYI: I know a similar solution is currently under development by a fellow Portals committer for SpringMVC (in contrast
to Spring Portlet MVC), based upon/following the Struts Bridge solution, which *might* be contributed back here at
Portal Bridges in the future too...
Anyway, concerning your worries about the future: it really depends on the community (so: including yourself).
Apache projects are not and will not live and survive on single individual efforts only: it really is the community
which must keep a project alive. I myself will continue to help out as much as I can, but that by itself is never going
to be enough.
If you (the community) need better documentation, new/improved features, examples, a struts-blank-bridges-portlet.war,
better "marketing" etc., you'll need to help out *yourself*:
- contribute documentation
- contribute fixes/improvements
- contribute *useful* showcase examples
- write/publish articles how *you* are using the Struts Bridge
- blog
- etc.
If the community is willing to spread the word, others will take notice, join the community, and start doing the same.
That's what it is all about: no less, no more.
If you look back through this mailing list archive, you'll see very little community involvement...
Really, really too bad, as I honestly think (and have knowledge) that a lot of people actually *are* using the bridge.
But, if nobody is willing to provide feedback, help out and *acknowledge* it (for whatever reason: company policy,
shyness, ignorance, or worse: indifference), nothing much is going to happen.
(As a side note: very "funny" to see that my Struts Bridge examples, the JPetstorePortlet and even the very outdated
MailReader demo together blow away the download numbers of all the other "examples" provided at JBoss Portlet Swap,
see: http://www.jboss.org/portletswap/downloads/portlets/framework
Also note: I never ever once got a single feedback from either a Struts committer or the JBoss Portal team about the
Struts Bridge or these examples...)
Well, sorry if I come across a little bit disappointed, but I really would like to see the Struts Bridge community (and
for that matter: the whole of the Portal Bridges community) to be more interactive.
So, if you want to make the Struts Bridge more future "proof", start helping out today!
As you say, you're a big fan (great!) and have been using the Struts Bridge yourself successfully.
Surely, you've extended it with some features which might be of interest to others too, written some documentation or
instructions for your fellow developers, maybe even written some kind of manual (or maybe someone else lurking on this
list has?).
Please contribute and help out, send in feature request, create JIRA issues for them:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PB
Provide fixes, code, examples, patches, whatever.
I'll be glad to help out to integrate them, improve the website, provide pointers to external articles, blogs, anything.
But you'll need to help me out, I simply cannot and will not do that on my own.
I hope this long "rant" doesn't scare you or others away, I just want to be honest: the Struts Bridge has a lot
potential, even with Struts 2.x around, because so many developers and companies still are and very much continue to use
Struts 1.x. I can easily think of at least 20 new features and improvements for the Struts Bridge to make it even much
better, but I don't have the time nor interest to design and develop them all by myself anymore.
With kind regards and hoping for a lot more community interaction,
Ate
Mark McLaren wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> How about creating a struts-blank-bridges-portlet Maven archetype? I
> think we need to be able to demonstrate how easy and quick portlets
> can be to write!
>
> I'm a big fan of the Struts Bridge and was very pleased to see the
> recent release in December 07. What concerns me is that the noisier
> portlet developers who write Spring Portlet MVC or Struts 2 portlets
> (etc.) seem to be getting most of the attention when it comes to the
> beginners question "How do I write a portlet?".
>
> Personally (as a Struts 1.x developer), I see Struts Bridge as the
> most natural way to create a portlet as it can be developed and run
> standalone. I am at a loss as to why more people are not using Struts
> Bridge (could it be the documentation or lack of examples?). I am
> concerned for the long term future of the Struts Bridge product as the
> alternatives seem to be grabbing the majority of the market share.
>
> Mark
>
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