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Posted to general@incubator.apache.org by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> on 2007/10/22 09:13:42 UTC
[VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Hi,
The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both have
always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
familiar with projects here.
[ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
[ ] 0 Don't care
[ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Robert Burrell Donkin <ro...@gmail.com>.
On 10/22/07, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
> +1.
+1
> Really happy to see this happen guys; I wish you all the best
+1
- robert
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Davanum Srinivas <da...@gmail.com>.
[x] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
On 10/22/07, Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com> wrote:
> +1. Really happy to see this happen guys; I wish you all the best and
> I'm gonna try and track progress even if there's no chance I can find
> time to actually contribute...
>
> I hope the relative lack of controversy around this so far is carried
> all the way through successful graduation...looking at the list of
> participants I imagine incubation might go quite quickly :-)
>
> On Oct 22, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> > The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
> >
> > http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
> >
> > As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both
> > have always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> > committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> > familiar with projects here.
> >
> > [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
> > [ ] 0 Don't care
> > [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>
> cheers,
>
> Leo Simons
> --
> http://www.leosimons.com/blog/
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 22 Oct 07, at 2:14 AM 22 Oct 07, Leo Simons wrote:
> +1. Really happy to see this happen guys; I wish you all the best
> and I'm gonna try and track progress even if there's no chance I
> can find time to actually contribute...
>
> I hope the relative lack of controversy around this so far is
> carried all the way through successful graduation...looking at the
> list of participants I imagine incubation might go quite quickly :-)
>
Yes, I really see this as IP vetting, and planning on how to migrate
users. There's a lot of code, and we have a fair number of users. The
complete merger of the code will probably take some time, and it's
not necessary to do that in the incubator as it will take quite a
while to use a merged container in Maven. I imagine separate releases
of the containers will happen for a while as we release merged
versions for people to try. I think we'll be out of the incubator
very quickly relative to projects coming in with little or no open
source experience.
> On Oct 22, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>> The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
>>
>> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
>>
>> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both
>> have always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
>> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
>> familiar with projects here.
>>
>> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
>> [ ] 0 Don't care
>> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>
> cheers,
>
> Leo Simons
> --
> http://www.leosimons.com/blog/
>
>
>
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>
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Leo Simons <ma...@leosimons.com>.
+1. Really happy to see this happen guys; I wish you all the best and
I'm gonna try and track progress even if there's no chance I can find
time to actually contribute...
I hope the relative lack of controversy around this so far is carried
all the way through successful graduation...looking at the list of
participants I imagine incubation might go quite quickly :-)
On Oct 22, 2007, at 9:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
>
> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both
> have always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> familiar with projects here.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
> [ ] 0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
cheers,
Leo Simons
--
http://www.leosimons.com/blog/
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Luciano Resende <lu...@gmail.com>.
[x] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation (non-binding)
On 10/22/07, Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> [x] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
>
> BR,
>
> Jukka Zitting
>
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Jukka Zitting <ju...@gmail.com>.
Hi,
[x] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
BR,
Jukka Zitting
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Niclas Hedhman <ni...@hedhman.org>.
On Monday 22 October 2007 15:13, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> [x] 0 Don't care
As long as the IDEA product doesn't suffer from it ;o)
Cheers
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Matt Hogstrom <ma...@hogstrom.org>.
> [X ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
Good luck.
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Paul Hammant <pa...@thoughtworks.net>.
Well I'm back from vacation :)
The discussion was almost entirely done off-list. First Jason and I
kicking the tires of the idea, then with respective co-leads,
committers etc. It was pretty extensive.
Why secret ? PicoContainer and Plexus are two containers in a field
that is quite full them. Spring Framework dominates, Guice (very
very similar to PicoContainer's traditional ideals, but three years
later) has the magic Google brand that makes it very successful. We
wanted to define our fate in private without bloggers pitching in
with "Pico is crap compared to Spring", or "Pico is a cheap copy of
Guice" (etc, etc).
Of course we're aware that the Apache way is not off-list activity,
so consider it the last hurrah of the despot models for Pico/Plexus....
- Paul
On Oct 23, 2007, at 10:14 PM, peter royal wrote:
> On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:46 PM, Kevan Miller wrote:
>> I took a peek at plexus and picocontainer mailing lists. One thing
>> of note is that there seems to have been little discussion on the
>> picocontainer lists about a move to Apache. Perhaps discussions
>> were offline, but it's not clear to me how their community, beyond
>> Paul Hammant, feels about the move... I don't see a big issue with
>> this (at least not anything that won't be sorted out by
>> incubation), just passing along what I learned...
>
> well, that's kinda par-for-the-course with the pico community.. its
> pretty darn silent :)
>
> fwiw, there were offline discussions, and the entirety of the
> active committership was involved.
>
> -pete
>
> --
> (peter.royal|osi)@pobox.com - http://fotap.org/~osi
>
Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by peter royal <pr...@apache.org>.
On Oct 23, 2007, at 1:46 PM, Kevan Miller wrote:
> I took a peek at plexus and picocontainer mailing lists. One thing
> of note is that there seems to have been little discussion on the
> picocontainer lists about a move to Apache. Perhaps discussions
> were offline, but it's not clear to me how their community, beyond
> Paul Hammant, feels about the move... I don't see a big issue with
> this (at least not anything that won't be sorted out by
> incubation), just passing along what I learned...
well, that's kinda par-for-the-course with the pico community.. its
pretty darn silent :)
fwiw, there were offline discussions, and the entirety of the active
committership was involved.
-pete
--
(peter.royal|osi)@pobox.com - http://fotap.org/~osi
Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Kevan Miller <ke...@gmail.com>.
+1
I took a peek at plexus and picocontainer mailing lists. One thing of
note is that there seems to have been little discussion on the
picocontainer lists about a move to Apache. Perhaps discussions were
offline, but it's not clear to me how their community, beyond Paul
Hammant, feels about the move... I don't see a big issue with this
(at least not anything that won't be sorted out by incubation), just
passing along what I learned...
--kevan
On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
>
> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both
> have always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> familiar with projects here.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
> [ ] 0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Bertrand Delacretaz <bd...@apache.org>.
> [X ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
-Bertrand
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by peter royal <pr...@apache.org>.
On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both
> have always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> familiar with projects here.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
+1
-pete
--
proyal@apache.org - http://fotap.org/~osi
Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Martijn Dashorst <da...@apache.org>.
+1
On 10/22/07, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
>
> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both have
> always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> familiar with projects here.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
> [ ] 0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by J Aaron Farr <fa...@apache.org>.
Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> writes:
> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both have
> always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> familiar with projects here.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
> [ ] 0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
+1
Good luck! Great to see this code and community joining Apache.
--
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馮傑仁 cubiclemuses.com [HK] +852 8123-7905
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Paul Hammant <pa...@hammant.org>.
>>>>>
>>>>> But not all favorably it appears...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Was there a particular response you were trying to illicit with
>>>> that quote?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes. It's called knowledge and background.
>>>
>>
>> What do you want to know? And I can provide any background you
>> feel people should know about.
>>
>> You can't honestly expect to gather a whole lot from a cheeky
>> remark uttered 4 years ago.
>>
>
> It's really not all that; I'm not sure what you're getting at.
> The proposal makes note of the fact that several people are Apache
> committers. Sometimes, people involved in Incubator podlings need
> to make tough choices and decisions (like whether to tank it
> or not should that ever happen), and so any background which
> is appropriate to that discussion should be brought up and out
> at the start, rather than it being a potential issue latter
> on.
>
Yup its true that I wrote that. It is mitigated somewhat in
successive sentences I think, and people (including Jim) that were
around at the time will remember that I took a stance between two
protagonists who were diametrically opposed on extension agenda for
Avalon. I tried to implore the group to search for common ground in
order to let the (ill fated) project go forward. I did not agree
with the boards decision then, but respected its right to make that
decision. Perhaps it was inappropriate to rake it over in a 'bio'
segment for myself. Or perhaps it would have been more appropriate
to remove that reference years ago, when the event in question was
less important to me. Thus the obvious conclusion - fix it now
(watch for changes).
Since that project schism, Inversion of Control (and its subset
Dependency Injection) have gone mainstream for Java - even Sun have
noticed ;-). The fate of the idea is no longer dependent on harmony
of one project.
I'm four years older now and much more able to spot the early signs
of discord, and leverage better techniques for keeping all happy and
joined-up in a common direction. Not that I'll be leading 'Apache
Composer' of course.
Regards,
- Paul
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Oct 23, 2007, at 2:30 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
> On 23 Oct 07, at 5:46 AM 23 Oct 07, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 22 Oct 07, at 10:36 AM 22 Oct 07, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Plexus has 17 Apache committers, Pico has 4 so most of the
>>>>>> participants are already familiar with projects here.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But not all favorably it appears...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Was there a particular response you were trying to illicit with
>>> that quote?
>>>
>>
>> Yes. It's called knowledge and background.
>>
>
> What do you want to know? And I can provide any background you feel
> people should know about.
>
> You can't honestly expect to gather a whole lot from a cheeky
> remark uttered 4 years ago.
>
It's really not all that; I'm not sure what you're getting at.
The proposal makes note of the fact that several people are Apache
committers. Sometimes, people involved in Incubator podlings need
to make tough choices and decisions (like whether to tank it
or not should that ever happen), and so any background which
is appropriate to that discussion should be brought up and out
at the start, rather than it being a potential issue latter
on.
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 23 Oct 07, at 5:46 AM 23 Oct 07, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
> On Oct 22, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
>>
>> On 22 Oct 07, at 10:36 AM 22 Oct 07, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Plexus has 17 Apache committers, Pico has 4 so most of the
>>>>> participants are already familiar with projects here.
>>>>>
>>>
>>> But not all favorably it appears...
>>>
>>
>> Was there a particular response you were trying to illicit with
>> that quote?
>>
>
> Yes. It's called knowledge and background.
>
What do you want to know? And I can provide any background you feel
people should know about.
You can't honestly expect to gather a whole lot from a cheeky remark
uttered 4 years ago.
Thanks,
Jason
----------------------------------------------------------
Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
On Oct 22, 2007, at 4:55 PM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
> On 22 Oct 07, at 10:36 AM 22 Oct 07, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
>>
>>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>>
>>>> Plexus has 17 Apache committers, Pico has 4 so most of the
>>>> participants are already familiar with projects here.
>>>>
>>
>> But not all favorably it appears...
>>
>
> Was there a particular response you were trying to illicit with
> that quote?
>
Yes. It's called knowledge and background.
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org>.
On 22 Oct 07, at 10:36 AM 22 Oct 07, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>
>> On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>>
>>> Plexus has 17 Apache committers, Pico has 4 so most of the
>>> participants are already familiar with projects here.
>>>
>
> But not all favorably it appears...
>
I don't think anyone was particularly happy about the outcome of the
Avalon project, that quote is probably 4 years old now, and no one is
obliged to like everything at Apache. There are lots of things I
like, and there are things I don't like. The overriding obligation
and responsibility of anyone who has a project here, or wants to put
one here, is to make an earnest attempt to improve Apache. There is
no one on the list of people in the proposal who thinks otherwise.
Was there a particular response you were trying to illicit with that
quote? Paul is on vacation, getting drunk, but I'm sure he would
respond in the same fashion. I don't think anyone was particularly
happy with the outcome of Avalon. Such is life, life goes on, and
this is where we are trying to reintegrate this stuff back into Apache.
> "It is also worth noting that Paul got drunk with Aslak
> to start PicoContainer on the day a world class coder
> was effectively expelled from Apache. He voted against
> that action and won't go into details, but believes that
> it was wrong."
>
>>> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
>>> [ ] 0 Don't care
>>> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>>>
>
> 0
>
>
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>
Thanks,
Jason
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Jason van Zyl
Founder, Apache Maven
jason at sonatype dot com
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Jim Jagielski <ji...@jaguNET.com>.
> On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
>
>> Plexus has 17 Apache committers, Pico has 4 so most of the
>> participants are already familiar with projects here.
>>
But not all favorably it appears...
"It is also worth noting that Paul got drunk with Aslak
to start PicoContainer on the day a world class coder
was effectively expelled from Apache. He voted against
that action and won't go into details, but believes that
it was wrong."
>> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
>> [ ] 0 Don't care
>> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>>
0
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Craig L Russell <Cr...@Sun.COM>.
+1
Good luck,
Craig
On Oct 22, 2007, at 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
>
> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both
> have always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> familiar with projects here.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
> [ ] 0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscribe@incubator.apache.org
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>
Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Justin Erenkrantz <ju...@erenkrantz.com>.
On Oct 22, 2007 12:13 AM, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> [X] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
Try try try again. =)
Best of luck to ya'll. -- justin
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by Eelco Hillenius <ee...@gmail.com>.
[ x ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
Eelco
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Re: [VOTE] Accept Composer in the Incubator
Posted by James Strachan <ja...@gmail.com>.
+1
On 22/10/2007, Jason van Zyl <ja...@maven.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The proposal for Composer has been drafted here:
>
> http://wiki.apache.org/incubator/ComposerProposal
>
> As mentioned previously, both containers are heavily used, both have
> always lived as open source projects. Plexus has 17 Apache
> committers, Pico has 4 so most of the participants are already
> familiar with projects here.
>
> [ ] +1 Accept Composer project for incubation
> [ ] 0 Don't care
> [ ] -1 Reject for the following reason :
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Jason van Zyl
> Founder, Apache Maven
> jason at sonatype dot com
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
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--
James
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Open Source SOA
http://open.iona.com
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