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Posted to dev@forrest.apache.org by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org> on 2002/11/24 16:55:23 UTC
XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Almost WYSIWYG editing of Forrest docs.. cool :) Thanks Jano!
--Jeff
----- Forwarded message from Jano <ja...@wanadoo.es> -----
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 16:08:55 +0100
From: Jano <ja...@wanadoo.es>
Subject: Re: forrest and xml catalogs
To: xindice-dev@xml.apache.org
X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.0
When I run the forrest command line program from xml-xindice directory,
it
> works fine. But when I use XML Spy to edit the files (or any other xml
> editor), they can not validate the documents. I believe this is because it
> can't find the catalog file. Does anyone know how to configure an XML
> editor (preferably XML Spy) to use an XML catalog?
Im using xxe instead XMLSpy. Theres is a free standard edition at
www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/. Its written in Java and I looove it.
Heres how to write document1.1 DTD in wysiwyg mode:
1. install editor.
2. unzip apache.zip at xxe/config
http://193.146.46.92/gulo/proyectos/web/files/proyectos/web/apache.zip
thats a draft of a web Im doing, hope it's not going down by the time
you read this
3. add this text to catalog.xml (between <catalog></catalog> tags)
<!--
==================================================================== -->
<!-- DTD Documentation de Apache -->
<!-- ==================================================================== -->
<public publicId="-//APACHE//DTD Documentation V1.1//EN"
uri="apache/dtd/document-v11.dtd"/>
<public publicId="-//APACHE//ENTITIES Documentation V1.1//EN"
uri="apache/dtd/document-v11.mod"/>
<public publicId="-//APACHE//ENTITIES Common Character Entity Sets V1.0//EN"
uri="apache/dtd/common-charents-v10.mod"/>
<!--- ISO public identifiers for sets of character entities -->
<public publicId="ISO 8879-1986//ENTITIES Added Latin 1//EN//XML"
uri="apache/entity/ISOlat1.pen"/>
<public publicId="ISO 9573-15:1993//ENTITIES Greek Letters//EN//XML"
uri="apache/entity/ISOgrk1.pen"/>
<public publicId="ISO 8879:1986//ENTITIES Publishing//EN//XML"
uri="apache/entity/ISOpub.pen"/>
<public publicId="ISO 8879:1986//ENTITIES General Technical//EN//XML"
uri="apache/entity/ISOtech.pen"/>
<public publicId="ISO 8879:1986//ENTITIES Numeric and Special Graphic//EN//XML"
uri="apache/entity/ISOnum.pen"/>
<public publicId="ISO 8879:1986//ENTITIES Diacritical Marks//EN//XML"
uri="apache/entity/ISOdia.pen"/>
<public publicId="ISO 8879:1986//ENTITIES Added Latin 1//EN//XML"
uri="apache/entity/ISOlat1.pen"/>
4. It's done.
Hmm..maybe I should add support for others DTDs from Forrest.
--
Jano <ja...@wanadoo.es>
----- End forwarded message -----
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
To save the idly curious the effort of downloading XXE, I put a screen
shot up at:
http://cvs.apache.org/~jefft/tmp/xxe-screenshot.png
Not that anything beats vim.. just there's some novelty value in
encountering a Java client-side app that doesn't suck.
--Jeff
On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 02:55:23AM +1100, Jeff Turner wrote:
> Almost WYSIWYG editing of Forrest docs.. cool :) Thanks Jano!
>
> --Jeff
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.org>.
Hello everyone,
please see http://demo.wyona.org/wyona-cms/ethz-mat/edit/index.xml
User: wyona
Pass: levi
This is the HTMl-Form-Editor of wyona. It is a nice fallback position.
King regards
Thorsten
Robert Koberg wrote:
> Hi Stefano,
>
> Where would the back-end live?
>
> Do you have to figure out a way to resolve the content? In those tools the
> transfomation happens on the client.
>
> curious,
> -Rob
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@apache.org]
>>Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:24 AM
>>To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
>>Subject: Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml
>>catalogs)
>>
>>
>>Jeff Turner wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Should we consider moving that CSS stuff from Cocoon to Forrest ?
>>>
>>>
>>>+1
>>
>>+1 as well.
>>
>>Ah, BTW, question: did you guys ever thought about adding some
>>inline-editing capabilities to forrest thru Xopus or Bitflux?
>>
>>--
>>Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
RE: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Hi Stefano,
Where would the back-end live?
Do you have to figure out a way to resolve the content? In those tools the
transfomation happens on the client.
curious,
-Rob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi [mailto:stefano@apache.org]
> Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 10:24 AM
> To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml
> catalogs)
>
>
> Jeff Turner wrote:
>
> >>Should we consider moving that CSS stuff from Cocoon to Forrest ?
> >
> >
> > +1
>
> +1 as well.
>
> Ah, BTW, question: did you guys ever thought about adding some
> inline-editing capabilities to forrest thru Xopus or Bitflux?
>
> --
> Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
Forrest user-friendly editing (was XXE editor support for Forrest)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
As a roadplan, I'd propose that we make first make the wiki editing
work, and then use this simple
http://www.playsophy.com/Wrap/wrapblurb.html editor for a UI starter.
The wiki files should be saved to disk as *.cwiki (Chaperon WIKI) and
used directly by the sitemap. In this way editing is done on the
original wiki, and it's all more clean and simple.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: OSS rant (was: Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest
and xml catalogs))
Posted by Michael Wechner <mi...@wyona.org>.
Gianugo Rabellino wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>
>> > BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
>> > experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
Please don't worry. The Wyona project will never become closed source,
even if Wyona Inc. will go broke, because the Wyona project is owned by
the non-profit organization wyona.org, which is legally based in
Switzerland and has very similar bylaws as the Apache Software
Foundation. The bylaws explicitely state that the Wyona project resp.
its software shall remain Open Source forever or in the case of
dissolving wyona.org, the software shall be donated to another Open
Source project such as for instance Apache (if they actually want it;-).
The organization wyona.org has no legal connection to Wyona Inc.
I have to admit, that we did/are-doing a bad "marketing job" on this,
because people seem to think that the project is owned by Wyona Inc.
I hope this will all resolve very clearly in the very near future.
>>
>>
>> Ditto for Xopus.
That seems to be true, at least for the moment. Although the "old"
versions until 2.0.0.8 are of course still Open Source under the Apache
license. But don't give up to soon on them.
>
>
> <rant off-topic="true">
>
> I'm not surprised. When will those companies learn?
I think we have learned a lot (and Q42 as well) ;-)
There is absolutely
> no way and no reason for such companies to prosper with a such blind
> Open Source strategy. What is the point in making a product Open Source
> if there is no community around it?
Building a community takes a long time (of course it depends on the
"product" and the "marketing strategy"). Wyona started to build a
community one year ago and the community is continously growing and
people are really becoming active. How old is Apache? How long did it
take for Cocoon2 to get its first release out?
Concerning the reason of why? In my personal case it's love,
peace,respect and fun (well, you name it). The company is just a mean
to an end. I don't want somebody watching over my shoulder and checking
if I am doing Open Source or not. Of course we have to be profitable and
we shouldn't be naiv on this, but it works and we are writing black figures.
You just end up spending lots of
> money/funds on developers while giving away your results for nothing
> (possibly to no one or close to).
>
> The whole point in Open Source (forget about the big guys who might
> leverage marketing visibility and similar crap) is about collaboration
> and community. We work together to produce good software on which we all
> make a living by selling it as a product (quite lame but anyway...) or
> as a set of services/consultancies. But the real point is "together": my
> company, your company, her company, not just me. Open Source communities
> are a precious resource when tought as a "shared" R&D department, for
> companies that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it: my company
> provides a couple of developers and gets the benefit of a lab of 50
> people or so, we join a common effort with a relatively small amount of
> resources and we all benefit from that. No small or mid-size company in
> the world would have been able to put together software like the one
> hosted by the ASF: think about Cocoon, where S&N, Otego, Outerthought,
> Anyware and many others, together with individuals, enthousiasts and
> some big company were able to put together a great product which turns
> out to be a great asset for their business.
I totally agree. That's why we have founded OSCOM one year ago to
connect people from various Content Management Communities. At our last
conference at Berkeley Greg Stein was wearing a T-Shirt saying: "Your
Open Source project sucks". My next T-Shirt will be saying
"Collaboration sucks" ;-)
>
> In the OSS world, talking about companies and not about individuals,
> there is no room (again, big guys aside) for one-man shows: a single
> company is unable to sustain itself on a single, self promoted and self
> developed OSS, it just doesn't make sense. So Wyona, Q42 and many others
> are doomed unless they make it in broadening the number of developers by
> having an heterogeneous community around them. And they won't have it
> unless it made clear that their effort will turn into a community effort
> owned by no one but the community: I, as a developer, perfectly see a
> reason on working on org.apache.*, much less on com.somecompany.*.
Please see the first paragraph above ;-)
But what about Zope? From what I know: zope.org is owned
by Zope Inc.and I think there is quite some venture capital behind them!
And they are very popular (at least within the Python community)!
Well, they have a very smart marketing strategy and business model, such
as for instance Python is Zope and Zope is Python. And who is working at
Zope Inc.?
But is that bad?
Well, I don't know, at least I am not sure yet.
>
> What would happen if Wyona chooses to step right into the Cocoon
> community donating their code (provided, of course, that we are talking
> about quality code that meets the interests of the community and that
> the intention is not purely to dump stuff) and making it a core part of
> a Cocoon based CMS? I would jump right away on that train, trying to
> help as much as I can, and so would others (and so actually *did* others
> with the S&N portal stuff). Most probably we would end up in a short
> timeframe with a great CMS, done by several developers around the world,
> tested, interoperable, well documented (oh well... maybe not *that* well
> after all... :-)), with a great brand on it such as the Apache one, on
> which many OSS companies, including Wyona would have been able to make
> good money. We all win.
I agree, but I am not the only one to decide.
>
> By joining (or creating, but it much more difficult) an healtful OSS
> community you get great code, a good number of developers and marketing
> for free (or almost). With one-man shows you're alone in the dark: good
> luck, but please don't blame Open Source if you fail.
No, I won't blame Open Source, because I can't sue anyone ;-)
Please, don't get me wrong, I really appreciate this discussion and hope
that things are becoming really "collaborative" :-)
All the best
Michael
>
> </rant>
>
> Ciao,
>
OSS rant (was: Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest
and xml catalogs))
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Steven Noels wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> > BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
> > experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
>
>
> Ditto for Xopus.
<rant off-topic="true">
I'm not surprised. When will those companies learn? There is absolutely
no way and no reason for such companies to prosper with a such blind
Open Source strategy. What is the point in making a product Open Source
if there is no community around it? You just end up spending lots of
money/funds on developers while giving away your results for nothing
(possibly to no one or close to).
The whole point in Open Source (forget about the big guys who might
leverage marketing visibility and similar crap) is about collaboration
and community. We work together to produce good software on which we all
make a living by selling it as a product (quite lame but anyway...) or
as a set of services/consultancies. But the real point is "together": my
company, your company, her company, not just me. Open Source communities
are a precious resource when tought as a "shared" R&D department, for
companies that otherwise wouldn't be able to afford it: my company
provides a couple of developers and gets the benefit of a lab of 50
people or so, we join a common effort with a relatively small amount of
resources and we all benefit from that. No small or mid-size company in
the world would have been able to put together software like the one
hosted by the ASF: think about Cocoon, where S&N, Otego, Outerthought,
Anyware and many others, together with individuals, enthousiasts and
some big company were able to put together a great product which turns
out to be a great asset for their business.
In the OSS world, talking about companies and not about individuals,
there is no room (again, big guys aside) for one-man shows: a single
company is unable to sustain itself on a single, self promoted and self
developed OSS, it just doesn't make sense. So Wyona, Q42 and many others
are doomed unless they make it in broadening the number of developers by
having an heterogeneous community around them. And they won't have it
unless it made clear that their effort will turn into a community effort
owned by no one but the community: I, as a developer, perfectly see a
reason on working on org.apache.*, much less on com.somecompany.*.
What would happen if Wyona chooses to step right into the Cocoon
community donating their code (provided, of course, that we are talking
about quality code that meets the interests of the community and that
the intention is not purely to dump stuff) and making it a core part of
a Cocoon based CMS? I would jump right away on that train, trying to
help as much as I can, and so would others (and so actually *did* others
with the S&N portal stuff). Most probably we would end up in a short
timeframe with a great CMS, done by several developers around the world,
tested, interoperable, well documented (oh well... maybe not *that* well
after all... :-)), with a great brand on it such as the Apache one, on
which many OSS companies, including Wyona would have been able to make
good money. We all win.
By joining (or creating, but it much more difficult) an healtful OSS
community you get great code, a good number of developers and marketing
for free (or almost). With one-man shows you're alone in the dark: good
luck, but please don't blame Open Source if you fail.
</rant>
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
RE: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Robert Koberg <ro...@koberg.com>.
Hi,
Xopus' best effort was never OSS. They offered a buggy watered down version as
their OSS option.
They said for several thousand dollars you could get the better, less buggy
version.
But they get all the press in communities like this... I don't understand... The
publicity they received, even though they were never truly OS is disturbing, to
me at least...
Personally, I could never get their product to work because it uses activeX (i
disable support for it).
<not-serious>Perhaps they way to do it is like the http://www.oddtodd.com tip
jar</not-serious>
oh well,
-Rob
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gianugo Rabellino [mailto:gianugo@apache.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2002 7:37 AM
> To: forrest-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml
> catalogs)
>
>
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
> > Steven Noels wrote:
> >
> > > Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> > >
> > >> BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
> > >> experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
> > >
> > >
> >
> > No, that is not true!
>
>
> OK, good to know. Sorry then for taking you as a possible example in my
> way off-topic rant: after two announces in a row I was rather pissed off
> about "the Great Open Source Give Up". Wish you guys all the best.
>
> Ciao,
>
> --
> Gianugo Rabellino
>
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.org>.
Gianugo Rabellino wrote:
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>> Steven Noels wrote:
>>
>> > Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>> >
>> >> BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
>> >> experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
>> >
>> >
>>
>> No, that is not true!
>
>
>
> OK, good to know. Sorry then for taking you as a possible example in my
> way off-topic rant: after two announces in a row I was rather pissed off
> about "the Great Open Source Give Up". Wish you guys all the best.
>
> Ciao,
>
But I liked your off-topic rant and so did some other dev from wyona.
They are now consider what you have suggested:
<citation>
What would happen if Wyona chooses to step right into the Cocoon
community donating their code (provided, of course, that we are talking
about quality code that meets the interests of the community and that
the intention is not purely to dump stuff) and making it a core part of
a Cocoon based CMS?
</citation>
I share your opinion on that topic. Giving the code to Apache will open
the door for more developers and user and ...
Regards
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Gianugo Rabellino <gi...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
> > Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> >
> >> BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
> >> experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
> >
> >
>
> No, that is not true!
OK, good to know. Sorry then for taking you as a possible example in my
way off-topic rant: after two announces in a row I was rather pissed off
about "the Great Open Source Give Up". Wish you guys all the best.
Ciao,
--
Gianugo Rabellino
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.org>.
Hello Nicola,
I think is partly my fault. I wrote an appeal to keep Xopus OS and there
were some lines about wyona. But this was only to introduce myself.
Regards
Thorsten
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
> Thorsten Scherler wrote:
>
>> Hello everybody,
>>
>> good news / bad news:
>>
>> Steven Noels wrote:
>>
>>> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>>
>>>> BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
>>>> experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> No, that is not true!
>>
>>>
>>> Ditto for Xopus.
>>>
>>
>> Sad but true, that's true!
>>
>
> Sorry for the confusion, what I had read was not first-hand information.
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Thorsten Scherler wrote:
> Hello everybody,
>
> good news / bad news:
>
> Steven Noels wrote:
>
>> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>>
>>> BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
>>> experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
>>
>>
>
> No, that is not true!
>
>>
>> Ditto for Xopus.
>>
>
> Sad but true, that's true!
>
Sorry for the confusion, what I had read was not first-hand information.
Thanks for the clarification.
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Thorsten Scherler <th...@wyona.org>.
Hello everybody,
good news / bad news:
Steven Noels wrote:
> Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
>
>> BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS
>> experience for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
>
No, that is not true!
>
> Ditto for Xopus.
>
Sad but true, that's true!
> </Steven>
Kind regards.
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Steven Noels <st...@outerthought.org>.
Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:
> BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS experience
> for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
Ditto for Xopus.
</Steven>
--
Steven Noels http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at http://radio.weblogs.com/0103539/
stevenn at outerthought.org stevenn at apache.org
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Nicola Ken Barozzi <ni...@apache.org>.
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Jeff Turner wrote:
>
>>> Should we consider moving that CSS stuff from Cocoon to Forrest ?
>>
>>
>>
>> +1
>
>
> +1 as well.
>
> Ah, BTW, question: did you guys ever thought about adding some
> inline-editing capabilities to forrest thru Xopus or Bitflux?
Yes, I gave it a try with Xopus, but found it not so straitforward, and
I also find it a bit strange and not so easy to use them to edit.
My roadplan is to have the wiki version working, and then we can think
of "upgrading" it with these editors.
BTW, Wyona seems to be talking about getting off from the OS experience
for now, since they found it unproductive :-(
--
Nicola Ken Barozzi nicolaken@apache.org
- verba volant, scripta manent -
(discussions get forgotten, just code remains)
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
>>Should we consider moving that CSS stuff from Cocoon to Forrest ?
>
>
> +1
+1 as well.
Ah, BTW, question: did you guys ever thought about adding some
inline-editing capabilities to forrest thru Xopus or Bitflux?
--
Stefano Mazzocchi <st...@apache.org>
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Jeff Turner <je...@apache.org>.
On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 01:31:24PM +0100, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> Jeff Turner wrote:
>
> >Almost WYSIWYG editing of Forrest docs.. cool :) Thanks Jano!
> >
> >--Jeff
> >
> >
>
> Funny : this uses the xdoc CSS I wrote back in april (check out Cocoon's
> documentation/xdocs/css directory) and which did not have much success
> at that time...
>
> At that time, I encountered a problem with images : XXE is able to
> display them, but the relative path that should be used in the xdoc
> didn't match the directory layout (images were stored in "resources").
> Now it seems like things are different with Forrest since
> document-related images (not talking about icons that are part of the
> skin) are stored with the xdoc.
They're currently stored in resources/images, which is mapped to
'/images' in the sitemap.
> Should we consider moving that CSS stuff from Cocoon to Forrest ?
+1
--Jeff
> Sylvain
>
> --
> Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
> http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
> { XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }
>
>
Re: XXE editor support for Forrest (Fw: Re: forrest and xml catalogs)
Posted by Sylvain Wallez <sy...@anyware-tech.com>.
Jeff Turner wrote:
>Almost WYSIWYG editing of Forrest docs.. cool :) Thanks Jano!
>
>--Jeff
>
>
Funny : this uses the xdoc CSS I wrote back in april (check out Cocoon's
documentation/xdocs/css directory) and which did not have much success
at that time...
At that time, I encountered a problem with images : XXE is able to
display them, but the relative path that should be used in the xdoc
didn't match the directory layout (images were stored in "resources").
Now it seems like things are different with Forrest since
document-related images (not talking about icons that are part of the
skin) are stored with the xdoc.
Should we consider moving that CSS stuff from Cocoon to Forrest ?
Sylvain
--
Sylvain Wallez Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }